"Most fashion dolls on the market are dressed like princesses or wear funky outfits," Lamm told HuffPost. "I wanted Lammily to wear clothes that Gap or J. Crew might design. There's no reason why simple everyday clothes design can't be transferred to doll clothes."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/05/normal-barbie-kickstarter-nickolay-lamm-lammily-doll_n_4826502.html
Oh she looks much better than her first rendition. I agree variation is great!
I hope they don't really mean it when they say she's going to only dress in "normal" clothes like GAP. She's never to wear anything goth, steampunk, never in clothing from the middle ages, princess, wild west and so on? I guess I don't like the implication that liking things like that isn't normal. :P
Oh... I guess I'm referring to a slightly different article.Quote"Most fashion dolls on the market are dressed like princesses or wear funky outfits," Lamm told HuffPost. "I wanted Lammily to wear clothes that Gap or J. Crew might design. There's no reason why simple everyday clothes design can't be transferred to doll clothes."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/05/normal-barbie-kickstarter-nickolay-lamm-lammily-doll_n_4826502.html
Looks nice, though I'm not sure how much it really matters what dolls look like. I think it's the real life people that mostly affect kids and their body picture.I don't think the creator is labouring under the assumption that kids define themselves 100% (or even mostly) in comparison to toys, but when the toys are in line with other cultural assumptions and norms (beauty ads, celebrities, family pressures, and so on) they're still a part of the bigger cultural picture.
It will have the same problems as trying to make a "normal" toy for boys by eliminating themes like space warriors, dinosaur hunters, alien robots and so on. Instead they'd get a regular man wearing gap clothes. That might work for little boys and girls. Playskool range. But I think older kids want themes that inspire them.
eta: to clarify, her proportions are fine. That's not the problem. The problem is more with her image: will she stand out among the competition?
Material things are rarely the most important thing, but that doesn't make them unimportant, y'know?
eta: to clarify, her proportions are fine. That's not the problem. The problem is more with her image: will she stand out among the competition?
Good point. But perhaps she will stand out simply because she's the only one out there that isn't an over-the-top fantasy?
I do remember this coming up a while back- I love the idea of it although I think they would do better if they had cuter clothing (which I think is what kids focus on)
Love the jointed ankles
Ill be interested in seeing what results pop up.
unfortunately, ill have to agree with real people affecting kids though.
The amount of times ive heard my own grandmother say some not soo nice things when both my sister and I were average was insane..and I don't recall caring what Barbie looked like figure wise. But that was the past..and this is now. So we will see :)
Cute as heck. You know what would be cool though?
Dolls with multiple body types. Fat ones, skinny ones, in between ones. YES.
I hope they don't really mean it when they say she's going to only dress in "normal" clothes like GAP. She's never to wear anything goth, steampunk, never in clothing from the middle ages, princess, wild west and so on? I guess I don't like the implication that liking things like that isn't normal. :P
I don't think anyone is saying that kids' body image is based solely on dolls and toys, but as they are part of the world around us they will at least in part affect our ideals on some level, and I also believe there's been serious studies that have shown this to be the case.
Personally I think the key word is diversity. I think it's important to show young girls and boys that it's ok to be tall, short, skinny, curvy, blue eyed, have a wonky nose, whatever, as long as you are healthy. If dolls like this will affect 1 single child in a positive way, I think it's all worth it.
I'm not impressed. I think the only hearts dolls tried something similar at and failed miserably. I actually don't prefer her proportions either. Playtime is imagination and fantasy. I don't need normal Jane trying to rock it with the Monsters. I am also sort of sick of blaming dolls, toys, tv, games and music for all the ills of the world. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Be a positive role model. Put others before yourselves. And stop demonizing everything you don't agree with.
I'm not impressed. I think the only hearts dolls tried something similar at and failed miserably.
I actually don't prefer her proportions either. Playtime is imagination and fantasy. I don't need normal Jane trying to rock it with the Monsters.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions.This guy thought there was a gap in the market and produced a doll - if that's not taking responsibility, what is? :huh:
I'm not impressed. I think the only hearts dolls tried something similar at and failed miserably. I actually don't prefer her proportions either. Playtime is imagination and fantasy. I don't need normal Jane trying to rock it with the Monsters. I am also sort of sick of blaming dolls, toys, tv, games and music for all the ills of the world. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Be a positive role model. Put others before yourselves. And stop demonizing everything you don't agree with.
I think people are annoyed by the doll because it seems to be attacking barbie and calling skinny people unnatural or not-normal. I'm glad people are looking for an alternative. But introducing it by calling it "normal" or claiming that girls shouldn't have barbies because they're unhealthy is probably not the best way to win over people who like barbie.
I think people are annoyed by the doll because it seems to be attacking barbie and calling skinny people unnatural or not-normal. I'm glad people are looking for an alternative. But introducing it by calling it "normal" or claiming that girls shouldn't have barbies because they're unhealthy is probably not the best way to win over people who like barbie. Doubly so because people who like fashion dolls are the ones most likely to buy a doll like this. I think they could just give her a name and some awesome outfits without all this hub bub and let people decide from there.
As a child, I wasn't interested in barbie or any doll with mature proportions. I preferred fantasy and child-like like my little pony or Strawberry Shortcake or Charmkins.
Perhaps her being referred to as "normal" is a faux pas, and I could see reason for calling her something different, but claiming that Barbie is MORE realistic for the very thin just seems extremely silly to me. Barbie has a very nipped in waist, true, some girls and women may find that more like themselves than this new doll, but again, going by the actual measurements of Barbie and comparing her to a real person....not realistic. At all. The claims are true that Barbie wouldn't even be able to hold herself up, much less walk, given the way she is built.
And I'm quite certain that people who are calling others fat or to skinny or what have you do far more damage than a TOY.
I don't think the creator is labouring under the assumption that kids define themselves 100% (or even mostly) in comparison to toys, but when the toys are in line with other cultural assumptions and norms (beauty ads, celebrities, family pressures, and so on) they're still a part of the bigger cultural picture.
Material things are rarely the most important thing, but that doesn't make them unimportant, y'know?
Cute as heck. You know what would be cool though?
Dolls with multiple body types. Fat ones, skinny ones, in between ones. YES.
Yea... I do think the media is trying to pit people against each other. CNN title their video as "Anti-Barbie crowd-funded in 24 hours".
The media says you're not allowed to like both. No way. :P
I am a bit perplexed as to why so many people seem to be against the idea of a doll that is supposed to promote self esteem in young people. Surely any attempt to improve the current state should be welcomed?
And as I said before, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Barbie is the root of all evil that ruins young girls lives, if you like Barbie and don't see a problem with her, that's fine, but when we are all bombarded with images of unattainable, photshopped "perfection" 24/7 from TV, films, games, magazine etc, I just don't think it's possible that it has no effect on us what so ever. I for one believe media has part of the responsibility here.
And as to those that take offense with the word "normal" in relation to Lammily, I haven't actually seen a quote from the creator using this term himself, I've only seen him state that she is average.
Of course it's impossible to manufacture one single doll that everyone will be able to idetinfy with physically, but as no-one alive will be able to identify fully with Barbie for example, (her measurements are literally impossible and most likely she wouldn't be fertile due to underweight, nor be able to stand up due to being top heavy and having unnaturally small feet) surely a doll like Lammily can only be an improvement.
http://www.elle.com/news/culture/lammily-real-barbie-nickolay-lammGet that? Real women are warm and friendly. Not intimidating. :P
It’s sort of surprising that you're a male and you're making this product. You don't have daughters, either. What's the genesis?
I was reading something on the Internet, and I remember a commenter that kind of read my mind. I think it was on Huff Post. On some story, he posted a comment that said something like 'To the male, to me, Barbie…she kind of looks alien-like.' And that's what sparked it. I agree. If Barbie were a real woman, she'd be intimidating and cold, and what I like about real women is that they're warm and friendly. I just wanted to create an image that would reflect that.
Get that? Real women are warm and friendly. Not intimidating. :P
It’s sort of surprising that you're a male and you're making this product. You don't have daughters, either. What's the genesis?[/b]
I was reading something on the Internet, and I remember a commenter that kind of read my mind. I think it was on Huff Post. On some story, he posted a comment that said something like 'To the male, to me, Barbie…she kind of looks alien-like.' And that's what sparked it. I agree. If Barbie were a real woman, she'd be intimidating and cold, and what I like about real women is that they're warm and friendly. I just wanted to create an image that would reflect that.
That's exactly it, and I'm tired of the responses from people saying that OH NO, they've never been effected by this at all, but then say that the Lammily doll is simply average proportion and that Barbie's body is actually attainable. Read: It isn't.
brightberry, that is very interesting indeed, and I do agree that we need to find out more about what impact (and why) toys have on kids, but this is just one single study, it doesn't necessarily prove anything.
QuoteThat's exactly it, and I'm tired of the responses from people saying that OH NO, they've never been effected by this at all, but then say that the Lammily doll is simply average proportion and that Barbie's body is actually attainable. Read: It isn't.
I don't think anyone on this thread has said barbie's body is attainable... or in any of the articles linked. So maybe you're getting that somewhere else? The study does show that some little girls are not affected by barbie, so people saying they weren't here isn't really strange. Especially if they are adults and still like dolls. For whatever reason, some people are not influenced and that's interesting.Quotebrightberry, that is very interesting indeed, and I do agree that we need to find out more about what impact (and why) toys have on kids, but this is just one single study, it doesn't necessarily prove anything.
Right. It doesn't prove much. It does indicate that barbie influences many girls at least after a short time of experiencing barbie and that's why the study gets quoted so often in these lammily articles. But in the same study more "average" dolls also negatively influenced girls, even more so than barbie in the 2nd grade. I find it mildly annoying now to read articles that produce the study as evidence that barbie is bad for girls and lammily is good when the same study indicates that other mature dolls are just as problematic. But I guess that's what the news does. >_<
I think whatever parents are doing to make sure that their girls have a healthy attitude towards dolls... they should figure out what that is and write a book about it.
I don't remember ever wanting to look like barbie. I actually kind of dreaded growing up. :P
That's the lady that likes to smack down anything that she doesn't like. I get trying to protect your child but this lady takes it to the extreme.
That's the lady that likes to smack down anything that she doesn't like. I get trying to protect your child but this lady takes it to the extreme.
She's made some very good points in the past but some terrible ones too. She once said that the G4 Ponies were sexualized, not even the EG dolls but the actual ponies :what:
She seems to find fault with alot of things that arnt faulty. Like with Frozen she said that cause Anna and Elsa are beautiful: 'As adventurous and independent as these gals are, the message is still that you must be beautiful while you do it.' which strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
I cant remember seeing a post by her about this doll but I hope I do soon. I have a feeling its going to be one of her better posts here her points are all sensible and you dont get the feeling she's spent alot of time hunting for faults.
That's the lady that likes to smack down anything that she doesn't like. I get trying to protect your child but this lady takes it to the extreme.
She's made some very good points in the past but some terrible ones too. She once said that the G4 Ponies were sexualized, not even the EG dolls but the actual ponies :what:
She seems to find fault with alot of things that arnt faulty. Like with Frozen she said that cause Anna and Elsa are beautiful: 'As adventurous and independent as these gals are, the message is still that you must be beautiful while you do it.' which strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
I cant remember seeing a post by her about this doll but I hope I do soon. I have a feeling its going to be one of her better posts here her points are all sensible and you dont get the feeling she's spent alot of time hunting for faults.
I have to wonder if she's comfortable in her own body. She's very quick to shame people/things she considers beautiful. Almost as if they should be ashamed of how they look.
As far as why some girls aren't affected by how fashion dolls look, maybe they have a more supportive family life, maybe their patents aren't always going on about dieting, maybe body image isn't made such a huge deal and maybe they simply don't care because it's not being made such a huge deal in their everyday lives.
I don't think that can all be accounted for by personality alone.
As far as why some girls aren't affected by how fashion dolls look, maybe they have a more supportive family life, maybe their patents aren't always going on about dieting, maybe body image isn't made such a huge deal and maybe they simply don't care because it's not being made such a huge deal in their everyday lives.
I wonder if some of it isn't just a matter of personality - some kids are pretty oblivious to the surrounding culture in general, and on the flip side, some soak everything up even when their family is fairly supportive (or limits pop-culture consumption). And preferences fit in there too; I didn't play with fashion dolls as a kid - they just didn't interest me at all - but my sister loved them, and there wasn't any parental pressure on either of us to be for or against them, y'know?
I don't doubt that family plays a big roll in reinforcing (or counteracting) general cultural norms and trends, but I think there are probably too many other factors at play. After all, I'd think we've all met exceptions to any generalization like that - people who had supportive/socially-aware parents who ended up with eating disorders as well as ex-child models with healthy self-images?