Anyone Else Kind Of Iffy About Continuing To Watch FIM?

[Sunset]

I enjoy FiM  for what it is, a cute cartoon about ponies.  I've never been a huge fan who gets super fired up when it is good nor the kind who gets uptight about its flaws.  I watch every episode once and if I don't like it I shrug and move on.

I totally agree with dragonflitter about the comparative lengths of the two shows.  FiM has had 7 seasons to make plenty of mistakes and triumphs.  If "Friends" or "Tails" had lasted that long wouldn't they have the same number of mistakes and triumphs?   I feel this way whether someone is comparing them either negatively or not.

[StarSwirl05]

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

I totally agree, i'd say it does it even better because Teddy is not here (seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).The message is good in both episodes, but the context makes it work better for me in FiM

Tales did handle the situation of more ponies than tickets better than FiM though.

[Al-1701]

Tales also didn't need to bring in a new character to serve as the conflicted friend.  Starlight seems to be a crutch to do things they can't do with the Mane 6.

[Sunset]

Tales also didn't need to bring in a new character to serve as the conflicted friend.  Starlight seems to be a crutch to do things they can't do with the Mane 6.

Again, I just don't get this comparison.  Are you comparing the Tales episode with the Ticketmaster?  Then why bring Starlight up?  Starlight doesn't appear until the 6th season.  Who says that Tales wouldn't be in the same position as FiM if it had made it to 6 seasons?

I just doen't think it's fair to take a show that is past the point when the vast majority of shows (from cartoon to network drama) are struggling with being stagnant and comparing it to a show that only lasted 1 season?

I find it equally unfair as those putting down Tales or MLP N Friends without considering the 30 year changes in technology, culture, and artistic taste.

[Al-1701]

I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.

[Jorgito93]

I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.

If you want to compare both, I don't think FIM in its 7 seasons and a movie had a worse morale than Tales in Shop Talk, and that was in its only season . Both have good aspects and bad ones.

I agree about Ticket Master though.

[Sunset]

I think you quoted the wrong person, I'm not comparing anything with The Ticket Master.

We'll never know is Tales or Friends would have been in this position because they were never given the chance.  We have the bodies of work we have.  Tales might have only lasted one season, but in that one season it was willing to do something it took Friendship is Magic six seasons to, and didn't feel the need to add a new character to facilitate it.  Which kind of deadens the message.

Trixie had appeared twice.  Once as a showman the Mane 6 decided to antagonize and the village idiots unwittingly humiliated.  Then she came back possessed by a magic trinket she originally intended to use to show up Twilight but made her power mad.  Now she's back in town (for whatever reason) and Starlight decides to befriend her not knowing her past.

Teddy was a known commodity to the seven characters, and their antagonism to each other was well established.  Them agreeing to stay in their own corners was also for the benefit of their mutual friend instead of learning The Lesson of the Episode.

However, I'm picking things apart at this point.

Well, since you replied right after the person talking about the Ticketmaster I assumed that you meant the "conflicted friend" in reference to that.

I guess I mostly disagree with phrases like "Tales never had to do that."  Maybe Tales didn't do "that" in a very specific situation that is similar to a FiM situation.  But phrases like "never" and "always" seems to me to be putting the two on the same footing in regards to length.  I just feel that it is only natural that FIM in its 5th, 6th, and 7th seasons are obviously going to have to do things that Tales never had to do cause it didn't make it past the first season. 

And a side note,  I am not implying that one is any better than the other cause of length.  I am perfectly aware that there are so many circumstance that contributed to their comparative success that has nothing to do with how "good" either one is/was.

[Deep Purple Crystal]

(seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).

To be fair though, Teddy's teddy bear wasn't brought up that often. FiM has technically reformed more villains than Tales, although FiM has approximately seven times the number of episodes Tales was given (technically fourteen times if you consider that one FiM episode is the runtime equivalent of two Tales episodes).

[Deep Purple Crystal]

The thing about a show that is seven seasons long, is that you're going to be able to find plenty of examples that support a sweeping generalization like this, but also that there's plenty of examples that prove the opposite, if you bother to look. For example, did you forget about the episode where Twilight sent Starlight out to make her own friend and she makes friends with Trixie, whom Twilight doesn't like (and the feeling is mutual?). The entire point of that episode is that your friends are sometimes going to be friends with people who you don't like, and that you have to accept that. That's just as nuanced as the lesson you cited in the Tales ep.

I totally agree, i'd say it does it even better because Teddy is not here (seriously, Tales trying to redeem him while showing him only being a total jerk just because he has a teddy bear is on par with FiM's tendancy to reform every bad guy.It bothers me even more tbh).The message is good in both episodes, but the context makes it work better for me in FiM

It wasn't only the teddy bear though. 'Stand By Me' depicts Teddy as being rude/selfish, but also depicts him as still bearing some form of morality (he does wrong but visibly repents it afterwards) and legitimately caring for Sweetheart (although Tales did fumble with Teddy in other episodes, most notably 'Blue Ribbon Blues').

As for the comparison between 'Happy Birthday Sweetheart' and 'No Second Prances', I feel both are on about an equal level. HBS is much more grounded and earnest about its message, and I appreciate that (not to mention that, as Al said, the episode had the benefit of numerous past episodes establishing the conflict between Teddy and the Tales girls), but it also treats Teddy as a Karma Houdini and simultaneously expects us to sympathize with him despite his despicable actions within the episode not providing the audience with enough reason/proof to sympathize with him or understand why exactly Sweetheart cares about him, which confused the episode thematically. 'No Second Prances' was technically better (as in the message and plot were more solid and Trixie was depicted more effectively as a flawed but sympathetic character given more chemistry with Starlight Glimmer than with Teddy/his actions/interactions with Sweetheart in HBS, but that could more likely be chalked up to episode runtime differences), but it felt way too over-the-top, which handicapped the message in a different way (not to mention Twilight experiencing character regression to shoehorn conflict into the episode and some out-of-place wacky dialogue which jarred with the melodramatic climax). Cutting aside my long-standing Tales subjectivity (HBS is actually one of the show's weaker episodes), both sides definitely have a point. 

Interestingly, Taffeta has actually brought up a great point in regards to FiM 'trying too hard to be funny'. It seems to be more frequent in recent seasons, where an episode that initially pushes itself as comedic will suddenly turn around and deliver an over-the-top dramatic climax which ultimately undercuts both the tone and the moral. Earlier seasons were technically guilty of this to an extent as well (particularly the first half of season 1, when the show was still attempting to discover its footing), but the comedy was typically less forced and more consistent with the episode's tone - it was better integrated and less 'abrasive' essentially.

Also, what is it with the continuing insistence of the FiM writers on shoving more new characters into episodes for the sake of preventing the main cast from becoming moral amnesiacs? It tends to slice apart an episode's focus as it alternates between focus on newer/older characters, leading to both sects being stunted growth-wise. It feels more akin to a desperate attempt to continue the show and avoid considering how the main cast should move forward instead of a creative decision they legitimately desired to explore in earnest, and it cheapens the tone of seasons 6-7 to a surprising extent.

[Taffeta]

A little off topic but it just struck me that this is probably one of the only places where a detailed discussion comparing tales and FIM can even occur, because of members generally having indepth knowledge of both.

The weakness in the comparison is that tales is one series of G1 animation, not all we have to work with. FIM is one continuous work but I think nobody would argue against the statement that it is essentially the animated canon for the toyline, from episode 1 to the current point. This is the same whether you like it or you don't. It's still one entity.

G1 animation is much more complex and bitty, and to compare FIM themes only to Tales is to leave out stuff from the earlier seasons. I am not a huge fan of G1 animation, but it seems inappropriate to talk about themes of friendship and how they're represented by omitting half of the existing episodes.

From my perspective, the pony comic managed to get across a lot of these nuances and messages and ideas quite effectively over a period of about eight years. That includes the tales ponies albeit there were slight differences in their characterisation. The thing that the comic had which the FIM series doesn't (and which G1 animation also has) is the constant change and update of the cast. The comic and the G1 series both were there to sell toys, whereas FIM has become rooted to the mane six and therefore they never move away from those characters as toys. Subsequently, to sell the toys, they keep FIM rooted to those characters. And yes, characters can only develop so far, but if it is going to go on for this many seasons, then it's the fault of the people creating the series not to branch it out further beyond just those six.

It's fine to say that FIM has now covered so many episodes it is hard to keep it fresh and that Tales didn't have that problem, but if the fundamental problem is a concept idea trapped around six characters that don't really evolve over the long term into anything new, then of course there are problems. FIM has created its own issues by choosing to only focus on the stories of a key few characters for several years. This thought process also saves Tales because it was such a short run and that never happened.

I think Melody was more annoying than Teddy, incidentally. And Patch was the most annoying of them all.

[Al-1701]

Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.

[Jorgito93]

Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.

What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head

[Al-1701]

Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.

What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head

One Bad Apple.

[Jorgito93]

Like when she stole the balloon and almost got her and Bon-Bon killed?

Trying too hard is probably the best way to sum up Friendship is Magic.  It tries too hard to be funny, too hard to be cool, too hard to be dramatic, too hard to be topical, too hard to be clever, too hard to be deep, etc.  This staff has bought into the hype they're working on the greatest animated series ever, and act accordingly.  Only it isn't and they're trying to punch far above their weight.  This is a show that can't even get an anti-bullying message right.

What episode tried to do anti-bullying? I can't remember an episode like that from the top of my head

One Bad Apple.

Ah yes,i see what you mean.Still wonder if it's worse than "blackmailing is the solution" in Tales but it's clearly not the best message to send.

[Cadence]

I used to skip the "filler" episodes but now I like playing FiM in the background and have grown to love the characters. I don't enjoy all of the episodes (ie. the CMC-centered ones) but some of them have surprising charms to them so I'll watch every episode. That said, I must admit I think it's high time for the series to end - everyone learns the same lessons and even Starlight Glimmer has learned how to be a good friend. Good series must end to stay legendary.