Interesting interview about Sunbow Studios

[LadyMoondancer]

Sunbow was the company that produced the G1 "My Little Pony 'n Friends" cartoon.  They also produced the G.I. Joe cartoon, which is what this interview is about (with Buzz Dixon).  However, since Joe and Pony were both from Sunbow, and were both Hasbro properties, I assume that a lot of what he talks about also applied to the MLP show.

http://joeguide.com/interviews/buzzdixon.shtml

He also talks about the 80s cartoon market, which is some interesting stuff!

By the mid-80s, the TV syndication market hit saturation level (remember, there weren’t nearly as many cable channels then as now). For kids TV, there were more shows than available time slots. On top of all this, DIC studios came along and really screwed up everything for everybody. I won’t go into the whole, long sordid history of DIC; suffice it to say they ferociously underbid competitors (going so far as to lose money on shows just to deny competitors a chance to do them) and they ferociously oversold their stock to investors (projecting an ever increasing number of kids’ shows on the air when even a basic market analysis would have shown the market to be flooded; I have learned not to be in awe of stock market investors’ alleged intelligence because of this). This led to a collapse of the syndication market for kids.

Further, it was discovered that toy sales and TV ratings did not coincide with one another. Sometimes the most popular toys had the best shows, but often a popular toy’s show would bomb and an unpopular toy would have a successful show (this was the case with Jem).

I've got to admit, as much as I love the Jem cartoon (which IIRC was the #1 cartoon for quite a while in the 80s?), the Hasbro toys were kind of . . . not that great.  Also, they were a different size than Barbie, which meant kids couldn't swap clothes between the two dolls.  Big mistake IMO.

Anyway, this kind of explains why G.I. Joe, Transformers, and MLP & Friends all bit the dust at the same time.

[gabumon]

huh.  Thanks for sharing this!

I would of thought the saturation point was more like 90s (because mlp came out in mid-80s?).   but I guess that's when cable TV cartoon channels came out?

[Bekuno]

Oh wow, that's interesting to read. DIC was behind a lot of shows I loved like Care Bears, Rainbow Brite, The Littles, Heathcliff and the Callico Cats, and Hello Kitty's Furry Tale Theater.

Man So many cartoons that I enjoyed growing up (despite not being an 80's child)!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DIC_programs

It was interesting to see just how much they produced that I've seen. Way more than what I just listed.

[nessa16]

I still remember the DIC tag at the end of each show the the big DIC. Letters zooming up from the back and the high pitched voice that said "DIC". I still get that stuck in my head these days. 

[Al-1701]

It also didn't help this came at the same time they rocked the boat and ended up capsizing it.  1986 turned into the perfect storm for Sunbow/Marvel/Hasbro.  Killing off Optimus Prime outraged Transformers fans.  The change in cast and tone with G.I. Joe was just as poorly received.  They were trying to penetrate the market with My Little Pony 'n Friends.  They were relying more and more on AKOM despite being incredibly inferior to Toei simply because of the amount of animation they needed to now keep four series on the air.

And this was the same year DiC released their animated Ghostbusters series with 78 episodes (65 of them going into syndication).

And where did Hasbro go when they decided to bring G.I. Joe back?  DiC!  Though, I wonder why they didn't want to pick up the Transformers or My Little Pony as well.

EDIT:  And G.I. Joe went SD before Gundam.  They should have made figures of them like this.  Even if it was just a limited release for the laughs.

[Leave a Whisper]

Haha! This is really neat. I love stuff like this. Had no idea Christy Marx wrote for Joe as well.

[Thunderwing]

Killing off Optimus Prime outraged Transformers fans. 

Wait, what?!  How am I just becoming aware of this now?

[gabumon]

Killing off Optimus Prime outraged Transformers fans. 

Wait, what?!  How am I just becoming aware of this now?

ya it happened.  tried to "reboot" the toy line with Rodimus Prime as the replacement.  instead just made kids cry.

[Leave a Whisper]

Killing off Optimus Prime outraged Transformers fans. 

Wait, what?!  How am I just becoming aware of this now?

ya it happened.  tried to "reboot" the toy line with Rodimus Prime as the replacement.  instead just made kids cry.

Good job Hasbro, for making your "little paychecks" cry.

Yeah I cried.

[Shatyr]

Killing off Optimus Prime outraged Transformers fans. 

Wait, what?!  How am I just becoming aware of this now?

ya it happened.  tried to "reboot" the toy line with Rodimus Prime as the replacement.  instead just made kids cry.

Good job Hasbro, for making your "little paychecks" cry.

Yeah I cried.

Years later (as in, the last 5 or so), upon seeing the movie for the first time, I cried.

Of course, now Optimus dying and being brought back is a Transformers staple. I can't think of a single continuity that doesn't have it happen at least once.

[Al-1701]

Animated killed him off and brought him back in the PILOT.  It's like they said, "We're going to have to do this at some point, so let's just get it out of the way right now."  I've started calling him Lazarus Prime since he can be added to cats and squirrels on the list of creatures that get as many lives as they think they can get away with.

[LadyMoondancer]

He talks a bit about the G.I. Joe season at DiC.  Apparently DiC would undercut other companies so badly that they were actually making cartoons at a loss. 

When the time for season three rolled around, DIC basically offered to pay Hasbro for the privilege of doing their [G.I. Joe] shows, and Hasbro saw little point in sinking their own money into a venture when somebody else would pay them to do it.

I would guess DiC was simply less interested in MLP and Transformers and didn't make a good enough offer.

Oh, and the interview does mention MLP in a couple places.

I forget what the exact budget was (miniscule compared to what Disney spends on features!) but it was about the same for all three films; maybe My Little Pony had less of a budget since it was a simpler story and animation style.

Funny story about an early draft of the My Little Pony movie: I was asked to punch up the original treatment. Basically this consisted of indicating where various music scenes could go, adding more magic and gee-whiz to otherwise pedestrian talking head scenes, etc. At one point one of the Little Ponies had to go looking for...something or someone, I forget. I suggested she encounter some of the Transformers and Joes in her search, specifically, a scene where she flies up to Shipwreck who is drinking some amber fluid from a bottle.

Shipwreck would just stare at her in bug-eyed disbelief and she’d fly on, then Shipwreck would smash the bottle, take his cap off his head, put his left hand over his heart and raise his right hand in an oath, muttering frantically under his breath. Hasbro said, "Very funny. No."

Also this part:

DT: When were you informed that G.I.Joe: The Movie was not going to be released to the movie theaters but going directly to video and aired on TV in a miniseries format?

BD: We got one theatrical screening at that year’s San Diego Comic Con but that was it. As I recall, the deal with Dino DeLaurentiis came apart because Dino was supposed to book Transformers for four shows a day on weekends and instead booked it for only three. Everybody later agreed the films should have been released in reverse order, with G.I.Joe: The Movie hitting theaters first, then Transformers, then My Little Pony. When My Little Pony could only sell three matinees a day, DeLaurentiis cut back on Transformers. Then there was the whole "Optimus Prime is dead" business which was purely wrong for Transformers (but not for G.I.Joe where the idea of death was much more central to what the Joes were, even if we never actually showed anybody dead on camera). So the whole thing fizzled out when they couldn’t find another distributor.

I disagree with him on death being more central to G.I. Joe, that show was just as goofy as Transformers and no one ever died, not even Cobra pilots when their planes were shot down.  It would have been really jarring and out of place.

[Al-1701]

Reverse order probably would have been better though.  For one thing, it would have given AKOM more time to complete the MLP movie since it would turn out they would be animating the bulk of it (either that or provide Toei the time they would need to animate the whole thing).  Actually, My Little Pony needed another script entirely.  Return of Tambelon would have been a far better story to elevate to the cinema than what we got.  But such is life.

Dixon had said in other interviews he had wished he could show causalities in the show.  War is death, and humans can't go into the shop and have themselves put back together like the Transformers.  However, the television standards wouldn't allow it (ironically making My Little Pony the only syndicated show they made with actual death in it).  The standards for movie were different, and they were allowed to kill off Duke since he was being discontinued in the line.  When the Transformers heard of this, they decided they would do the same for Optimus Prime.  And you know the rest.

[Leave a Whisper]

Animated killed him off and brought him back in the PILOT.  It's like they said, "We're going to have to do this at some point, so let's just get it out of the way right now."  I've started calling him Lazarus Prime since he can be added to cats and squirrels on the list of creatures that get as many lives as they think they can get away with.

Is that a Conker's Bad Fur Day reference Al? 

Post Merge: February 03, 2017, 07:34:54 AM

Reverse order probably would have been better though.  For one thing, it would have given AKOM more time to complete the MLP movie since it would turn out they would be animating the bulk of it (either that or provide Toei the time they would need to animate the whole thing).  Actually, My Little Pony needed another script entirely.  Return of Tambelon would have been a far better story to elevate to the cinema than what we got.  But such is life.

Dixon had said in other interviews he had wished he could show causalities in the show.  War is death, and humans can't go into the shop and have themselves put back together like the Transformers.  However, the television standards wouldn't allow it (ironically making My Little Pony the only syndicated show they made with actual death in it).  The standards for movie were different, and they were allowed to kill off Duke since he was being discontinued in the line.  When the Transformers heard of this, they decided they would do the same for Optimus Prime.  And you know the rest.

I never realised that. Two war cartoons and the cute, colorful ponies get the only character deaths that stick. Well I guess Tirek's death doesn't count anymore.

[gabumon]

Animated killed him off and brought him back in the PILOT.  It's like they said, "We're going to have to do this at some point, so let's just get it out of the way right now."  I've started calling him Lazarus Prime since he can be added to cats and squirrels on the list of creatures that get as many lives as they think they can get away with.

To clarify, just because it's my heart and soul.., "Transformers Animated" is also the name of the 2007 to 2009 series in which Optimus did not die.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers:_Animated

So by "Animated" you mean the G1-G2 1980s-90s? cartoon.