Ok... I have to ask....

[SoSilver]

Hi eveyone.
In my opinion, she looks like a genuine "prototype" to me.

The symbols, even if painted, is perfect and she looks like a pony prepared for a pitch or a convention

Congrats Ember, another jewel added to your amazing collection!

[Sky_Rocket]

Having held this pony in my hands, without a doubt I'd say it's from Hasbro. 

This pony was not made by a customizer.  The hair rooting on the mane is immaculate. The tail is held by a plastic tie.  The eyes - perfect.  They are pony eyes are factory painted on.  Her symbol is smaller than regular Sundance and has been painted on - not printed on. 

Prototype?  Marketing Promo?  Item made for Advertising? Extremely Limited Run?  No idea.  Made by a customizer?  No - in my 20+ years of collecting I've seen many customs and this pony did not have the 'customizers touch'.  Nothing about this pony looks as if it was 'made' by someone.

[kasin]

Hello,

So first off, Skyrocket, Lady Whimsy and I got to meet with Ember yesterday and she is absolutely awesome! Each of us brought a few neat show offs and we actually requested to see this Sundance particularly, because, well, wouldn't you? It was a impromptu mini meet that will need to be repeated in the future!

Sundance is real and I don't have any reservations about calling her a prototype or promotional piece. She had a number of interesting similarities to proto painting time which we also got to see and I'm glad to have had them together for comparison. The two were constructed the same, confirmed factory weave on the hair, plastic holders on the tails, the heads had never been glued and the body molding where the head connects was unusually neat and clean. The hair also got my attention because its not the same texture or coloring as production hair, its more like Mexican when the Mexican is in mint shape. Sundance's hair matches painting times texture exactly. My last argument (and what seals it for me) is what pony could of been used to make this as a custom? Pull out your regular production Sundance and a US Birth Flower and you'll see they are a different type of white. Proto Sundance is the same white as production Sundance, so a BF could not of been the base. There is the white Alt BF, and I'm not sure of her version of white as I don't own her and cant recall from the one occasion I've handled one, but her eyes are purple, and proto Sundance has factory printed blue eyes that could not of been faked.

Honestly, I've played with a reverse gusty and am shocked that folks that easily accept that one are struggling with this one? Having seen them all in person  and popping their heads off Id question the gusty more. Then again, quite a few Nirvanas were called fakies when they first surfaced (my first SA was called a fakie), so our community has a bad track record

Full disclosure, I have not read this whole thread! So sorry if I'm repeating old news etc. just putting in my opinion as a seasoned collector since I don't think many people have put hands on this girl yet! Our little group was very convinced and we are all old guard collectors that have extensive experience with customs and nirvanas.

Thank you!
~ Diana

[Ponyland]

Very interesting reading (all 16 pages)! I have a few thoughts about this collectors pose Sundance.. You know that for some reason UK (and Sweden to) got Applejack and Bow Tie in the collectors pose during 1985, when US at the same time got them in the shy pose with curly hair.

Something clearly happened there at that time, because why change the pose when you already had them in production? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just carry on with the same shy pose in both US and UK? Everything is always about money and expenses, and how to cut them and make profit... The collectors pose where in use for Lemond Drop and Peachy so maybe Hasbro UK could save some money if they used the collectors pose for more ponies...

When UK got their exclusive Megan & Sundance pack next year during 1986 Sundance was in her normal shy pose, but couldn't it be possible that there where some ideas about changing her to the collectors pose for the UK edition just as "they" had done with Applejack and Bow Tie? But instead the NC Sundance appeared if I am correct? (Due to savings maybe?)

Or, maybe collectors pose Sundance even was meant to be a part of the 1985 range of UK ponies (as US got their Megan & Sundance in 1985) but got rejected and appeared in the next year instead in her normal pose...

It would be very interesting to know if Hasbro UK had any design office or similar in UK. To me it looks like they had it as we do find prototypes there from time to time of european exclusive ponies. As well as there has been finds of packaging artwork, like for the Surprise Twin mommy and the jewelry babies. And not to forget that amazing find of artwork and prints of the german release of Nesthäckchen baby ponies, but with english text. (They where meant to be released in UK to at first). Why would all the work (like prototypes and artwork) for exclusive releases at the European marked be done in the US and then get dumped in UK when Hasbro actually had "Hasbro UK" there in position?

Just some questions and thoughts that spins in my head. I love mysteries! I would like to keep digging in this. (Pony detective)

Oh, and the pony itself is gorgeous! I would love to hold her to! <3

[pinkkittywinks]

Has anyone considered taking the head off of an Alternate January Carnation and seeing if it has the same numbers on the inside of it's neck..?

I know next to nothing about prototype ponies (aka I knew nothing before reading this thread ) but she does look genuine to me... the paint job and the way you've described her feeling.

princessluna11706, I hope you hear back from Kirk soon! Hopefully it will help shed some light on this mystery. 

I hope I hear back from him soon!  He usually takes some time responding to emails.  I also invited him to next year's ponycon, so can't wait to hear back.  Will update as soon as I do!

Have you heard back from your contact? I've been curious to hear what he has to say about Sundance

Love pkw xxx

[Taffeta]

Something clearly happened there at that time, because why change the pose when you already had them in production? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just carry on with the same shy pose in both US and UK? Everything is always about money and expenses, and how to cut them and make profit... The collectors pose where in use for Lemond Drop and Peachy so maybe Hasbro UK could save some money if they used the collectors pose for more ponies...

When UK got their exclusive Megan & Sundance pack next year during 1986 Sundance was in her normal shy pose, but couldn't it be possible that there where some ideas about changing her to the collectors pose for the UK edition just as "they" had done with Applejack and Bow Tie? But instead the NC Sundance appeared if I am correct? (Due to savings maybe?)

I have no problem with the idea of Sundance being real; the problem I have is the linking her to the UK. I don't see any reason to do that, not even if she was found here. That really doesn't indicate anything since so much US offshoot stuff was dumped here at the end of the line, it potentially skews any attempt to document what is and isn't UK related.

I worry I might repeat myself since it's been a few months since I last posted on this subject but to my knowledge Megan and Sundance was only ever promoted in the UK in the shy pose. The comic adverts really appear to feature the NC version of Sundance for both year editions. The inserts for this year are not pose specific but they do show a shy pose Sundance - UK inserts are all drawings up between 1985 and 1990ish, so no clues there. Hathorcat has some catalogues for UK stores but I am certain if they showed anything but a shy pose Sundance, she'd have been in here like a shot to tell us so. That being the case, there is no authenticated Hasbro paper trail for CP Sundance in this country. Yes, we had CP AJ and BT, but it's a huge leap to say oh, the UK had a couple of CP ponies the US didn't. It must be a UK variation prototype.

To begin with, AJ and BT came out in 1985, Megan and Sundance did not come out in the UK until 1986 when there were no CP ponies being sold in the UK except the constant rereleases of Lemon Drop and Peachy, who just remain in production. Lemon Drop switches over to Chinese manufacture somewhere around 1989 to go with the new stable, Peachy disappears. CP ponies are never really a driving force of Uk pony releases. The CP original set came out here but they are very much in the mould of the US release. I think AJ and BT were sold in the Collector Pose because it made the set nice and symmetrical. 2 ponies in each pose, and different ponies from the previous year's release. If we were looking at CP ponies in the UK vs the US, the US had far more because of having the Birthflower Ponies. CP officially died in the UK in 1985. In the US, it went on a bit longer than that, and, in any case, Sundance is 1985 I believe in the US release. There's a better chronology for her being US related than UK.

I have some reservations and doubts about the NC thing with Sundance, but I haven't got a UK Megan and Sundance to find out what the box says. I have a sneaking suspicion that they're not the same as other NC ponies in terms of their origin, but it's just a theory and I can't prove it even a little bit. (Maybe if someone has a UK Megan and Sundance MIP or the box they can clear up where it says the pony is made..?)

Or, maybe collectors pose Sundance even was meant to be a part of the 1985 range of UK ponies (as US got their Megan & Sundance in 1985) but got rejected and appeared in the next year instead in her normal pose...

Almost everything released in the UK that was released in the US came out in the UK a year delayed. Rainbow Ponies: 1984. Groom & Style ponies: 1985. Etc. etc. Sundance's release is just in keeping with normal UK release timescales...and the idea of a prototype in the Uk which is totally different from the US release and what the UK actually had is a bit farfetched. It's an extra expense which I don't think the UK were interested in pursuing, since they generally opted for cheaper versions of things (ie, no mother and baby fashions, just adult sets).

The painted Paintingtime etc also indicates Hasbro UK operating more on the cheap side of things. Sundance - if a prototype -is fully constructed. You'd expect that for a photo ad campaign or that she had reached a really close stage in her production - ready to be made and put on the shelves. That never happened. Paintingtime is a realistic prototype to me. She's using a base that Hasbro had available and they test ideas on her that way. This kind of thing happened with prototype stuff in other HAsbro toys (like Jem, where they sometimes used existing heads for test versions of dolls in preproduction that would ultimately have different or new heads that required manufacture). Hasbro UK are also notorious for using a US release of a pony for their photo ad campaigns, just to confuse everyone. With this track record, I can't see them having a pony made specially to that standard which they then did nothing with.

It would be very interesting to know if Hasbro UK had any design office or similar in UK.

I think it's highly likely that they did have something of this nature. Hasbro Europe is now based in the UK, but ironically Hasbro Uk is still at the (separate) address in Gwent in South Wales. During the early 1980s, though, Hasbro UK was in Buckinghamshire, I believe. It moved, so tracking down data of that nature would be hard to do.

 

And not to forget that amazing find of artwork and prints of the german release of Nesthäckchen baby ponies, but with english text. (They where meant to be released in UK to at first).
Why would all the work (like prototypes and artwork) for exclusive releases at the European marked be done in the US and then get dumped in UK when Hasbro actually had "Hasbro UK" there in position?

Hasbro UK are not necessarily the driving force behind MLP in Europe. I think it has to be remembered that Germany had a very thriving individual release range, and France, Spain, Scandinavia () etc diversified as well, not to mention the Netherlands and such being the last places where MLP G1 were officially released. I cite Germany specifically because it's interesting that at the end of MLP in 1994, ponies were being released by a collaborative organisation known as Hasbro International, and all the leaflets were bilingual in English and German. I am not saying Sundance is German, but there is literally as much evidence that she is German as she is English as she is anything from Europe. If she is a prototype, to me the only logical answer is that she's originally from the US. Maybe she travelled here, or maybe the seller was mistaken in remembering where she originated from - but I do not believe for one minute that she is a "uk" prototype. It must be remembered that the person Ember bought her from sold the pony in Euros, and was based on the continent. Her timeline for when and how she got it doesn't tally with known UK collector pony history, so the chances are greater for me that she was confused about what she got and where and when. It would have been a huge coincidence for her to acquire the prototype from the right specific area of the UK just at the time it happened to appear while she was on holiday. It's even less likely she picked the pony up from a MLP collector meet (as she apparently claimed) that predated any collector meets or even the UK pony collecting community as an entity. Her story is suspect to me, which makes the UK provenance also suspect. (Note, I'm not saying Ember's story is suspect, but I do think the seller has misrecalled where the pony came from, or, maybe, said it came from the UK because of this mad trend collectors still have of considering odd/unusual = UK pony!

I also love mysteries - but I admit I am not fond of ponies being ascribed to the UK without any clear paper trail to put her there. Too many ponies are known as "UK" ponies even now we know they're not - and I think it's a shame that nobody ever stops and considers that she might be an AMERICAN prototype and therefore something special from the US market. Not every rare or special pony has to be from outside the USA.

Without seeing the pony for myself, I'm still staying neutral about her authenticity.

[LadyGuinevere]

I think it's highly likely that they did have something of this nature. Hasbro Europe is now based in the UK, but ironically Hasbro Uk is still at the (separate) address in Gwent in South Wales. During the early 1980s, though, Hasbro UK was in Buckinghamshire, I believe. It moved, so tracking down data of that nature would be hard to do.

Berkshire! Wokingham in fact, which is my home town. The building it used to be in no longer exists and has long since been built over with others. Apparently my parents tried to explain where they were based when I was a child, but I didn't get it (I was 5 I think when they moved).

[Taffeta]

I think it's highly likely that they did have something of this nature. Hasbro Europe is now based in the UK, but ironically Hasbro Uk is still at the (separate) address in Gwent in South Wales. During the early 1980s, though, Hasbro UK was in Buckinghamshire, I believe. It moved, so tracking down data of that nature would be hard to do.

Berkshire! Wokingham in fact, which is my home town. The building it used to be in no longer exists and has long since been built over with others. Apparently my parents tried to explain where they were based when I was a child, but I didn't get it (I was 5 I think when they moved).

Ah, that's right xD Sorry Berkshire. With all due respect to Wokingham, not the first place I would think of booking my holiday if I was going to go visit the UK...

[kasin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only confirmed prototypes in the community that were known to be US were the ones JLM had. Everything else has been European correct? Also haven't seen much variation in the US releases, but there was some in the Euro line up including the HK/China productions (kiss curl, gusty, windy etc.). I don't understand the offence to assuming CP Sundance is most likely a Euro' proto' since prototypes have a better track record of surviving and making it out into the collecting community from there?

Slightly off topic: Anyone know of a proto' for a non HK/China production???

How much do we really know about prototypes? Some have been injection molds, but there were plaster ones too, there have been so few, how many of us have even seen one in person? (I really want to play with a plaster one BTW) As far as pose, I doubt it matters what the proto was versus what was released. If it did matter, the US mail order game time babies would have been in luckys pose. It appears that if they change the pose, they do not make a new proto, so if Sundance started in the US, I'm betting she was shipped to the UK for their production use regardless of pose. She could have been used for BOTH US and UK. don't expect Hasbro to remember anything either. I have stories of a factory tour many many years ago where they gave a history and showed concept art for UK ponies and said they were never made....

But hey, I've only managed 100 posts in 10 years, so my opinion isn't worth much.

~ Diana

[Taffeta]

It isn't offensive, but it is a sweeping assumption which has warped the general perception of UK or Euro ponies for almost 20 years. Much more is known now than was in the past but some of those basic assumptions still persist.

You are mistaken about there not being many variations in US production, too. One of the key ones I can think of right off the bat is Dazzleglow. It actually illustrated my point nicely, as for years people called blue heart dazzleglow a UK version because she was different from the pink hearted one, even though 17 years on we have no evidence proving this version was ever sold in the UK at all. We have lots of evidence for her US release, however, and for the fact that most variations of glowing magic ponies came from the US.

The same is true for the Rockin Beats. Variations in their hair tone and body style exist in the US as much or more than they do in the UK line. Lets not forget that 'uk' white haired Daisy Sweet and 'uk' lavender Woosie both only ever appear MIB in US style boxes, with lavender Woosie at least confirmed to have been sold in the US alongside the aqua one. I could go on but in the craze 17 years ago to understand UK or European ponies, people generalised. In doing so, the trend to look at US ponies in the same way never really happened. At the same time, myths like 'UK white windy' surfaced.

The second misconception is that Euro is the same as UK, or that pan continental Europe issues are all the same. Many countries had distinct lines and issues. Some prominent websites still say white Tootsie and yellow Moondancer are UK ponies, when they are not. Reverse Gusty - whose existance I still have doubts over - was immediately termed a UK pony years back and because of it a prominent UK based scammer forged several to fleece the US collector market. Even faded Posey was said to be a UK variant at one point.

In terms of manufacture variations, this also is not a UK thing. There are wingers made in HK and China and that is global, not European. The UK is actually quite consistant in its manufacture compared to the US, where Hasbro experimented with Thai ponies and continued to produce HK and China ponies.

It isn't the idea of a Sundance prorotype from the UK I find problematic, its the assumption that she is a UK variant wirh no evidence whatsoever of why or how she could have been created. My key focus is UK ponies and I know there are still many questions over the line - but I only like dealing in what can legitimately be proven, not what has been assumed as country of origin based on nithing more than that age old misconception that unusual =Uk. The bottom line is, if she came from the UK, it needs to be proven, not speculated without evidence. Right now there is nothing at all to tie her to UK production, and till there is, she is not a UK pony. Assuming she is might even hamper discovering information about her, wwhich sadly is still the case with some pony versions. People prefer to just label them UK and so we never learn more about them. (One example, 2nd set princesses found in Europe wjich are not end of line put togethers but show minor variations. This set were not sold in the UK at all except for bits and pieces at the end of the line, yet I see auctions for uk princesses from this set from time to time. It would be so much more interesting to find out if the occasional variation in symbol jewel colour related to the Dutch/Belgian release of this set or was a general variation in the N. American issue too - but because its been termed a UK version, nobody is looking into it any further. There is also a bad habit of calling mainstream ponies US ponies even if their release was in fact multinational, thus obscuring what actually are US and Canada release ponies that did not maje it to the UK, parts of Europe or Aus/NZ. North American collectors do not celebrate the special or exclusive elements of their line enough, and so the whole perception of how mlp was distributed has become warped as a result.

As for whether Hasbro know what they are talking about, their focus is niw, not then. When I corresponded with Hasbro UK in 1995 they did send me some images and a list of ponies in production over the g1 line but it still had some gaps in info. They also market some g1 merchandise here of Princess Amethyst with her US name.

[pinkkittywinks]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only confirmed prototypes in the community that were known to be US were the ones JLM had. Everything else has been European correct? Also haven't seen much variation in the US releases, but there was some in the Euro line up including the HK/China productions (kiss curl, gusty, windy etc.). I don't understand the offence to assuming CP Sundance is most likely a Euro' proto' since prototypes have a better track record of surviving and making it out into the collecting community from there?

Slightly off topic: Anyone know of a proto' for a non HK/China production???

How much do we really know about prototypes? Some have been injection molds, but there were plaster ones too, there have been so few, how many of us have even seen one in person? (I really want to play with a plaster one BTW) As far as pose, I doubt it matters what the proto was versus what was released. If it did matter, the US mail order game time babies would have been in luckys pose. It appears that if they change the pose, they do not make a new proto, so if Sundance started in the US, I'm betting she was shipped to the UK for their production use regardless of pose. She could have been used for BOTH US and UK. don't expect Hasbro to remember anything either. I have stories of a factory tour many many years ago where they gave a history and showed concept art for UK ponies and said they were never made....

But hey, I've only managed 100 posts in 10 years, so my opinion isn't worth much.

~ Diana

I can only think of unfinished ponies that have been found in Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, France and South Africa. No prototypes that I can recall.

However an Argentina pilot skin has been found. Here is a picture of her.

http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=385813

I really don't remember the ponies JLM had in her collection. I remember her Cotton Candy collection though

There are a number of unfinished ponies in the nirvana gallery. I believe some may be pilot skins, but I can't be 100% sure so I've listed them as unfinished.

http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=471299&g2_page=1

There is also a folder showing pilot skins, wax study models and clay patterns

http://mlparena.com/archive/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=472237

Love pkw xxx

Love pkw xxx

[kasin]

I think there are two separate arguments going on here.

1: is she a real prototype?
2: what production line was she made/used for.


I dont think there will ever be any confirmation from Hasbro and I cant say id trust it much if there was any comment  because we have direct experience working with the Road Island branch and they were pretty clueless. They did have knowledge and concept work for the Euro line (cant say UK vs general Euro) but they thought it was never made. This sujests there was communication and im back to the idea that sundance could have been used for multiple production lines. So im saying she is a real prototype, but I dont especially care for which country since it could be multiple.

Now, Euro vs UK. Im actually both American and Canadian and collectors here dont have much care if it all gets lumped as "US" though  we have notable differences in our availability and production. We also call non US HK/China production UK or Euro interchangeably and pretty much ignore that Australia had alot of these as well. Its not a lack of understanding or anything, I think its cultural. Its just really easy to say UK or US. Personally I call all non US production that was HK, China or Thai "Euro" just for simplicity. Macau ill seperate because they were different enough.

On variants. Yes we all had them, but I said Euro had more and im sticking to that statement. Its not a insult. France had some of the best quality control and they have varriants. Seen a number of prototype ponies, seen a believable reverse gusty. Seen some good customs too but the factory style custom hair always misses one detail and its the messy clot at the base of the neck. Gusty had the clot and all the prototypes had it too its actualy pretty hard to fake.... ive tried just to see if its doable.

Any case, im typing on a cell phone and its really hard! So ill stop there. I think the pony is a legit prototype and should be accepted.  I dont assign her to any particular country and dont know why it matters. I think she was for the whole HK production, US UK Euro etc.

[Taffeta]

On variants. Yes we all had them, but I said Euro had more and im sticking to that statement. Its not a insult.

No, it isn't, but "Euro" as a line doesn't technically exist (and I accept your point on US/Canada which is why I changed my type to North America half way through, that is a justified observation) so therefore what is a variant and what is mainstream? In France, for example, Italian versions of the Poneys Amis (1986 set) are mainstream. They aren't variants. They only become variants when we compare with a country outside of France. To me, the US versions of Twisty Tail (though sold here) and Baby Starbow and sundry other ponies are the variants - which, looking at it from a UK perspective, means more variations exist in the US and Canadian line, not the Uk one. Additional to that, the UK line doesn't have so very many variations as some of the continental lines, but all of them would say that the UK release, maybe, is different.

It's a subjective point, and I think it matters quite a lot, not least for organising trades or working out prices of ponies.

I admit that I have a very firm focus on the UK line, but that is partly because of the way it was handled in the distant past. When I first came online there was a significant resistance to even accepting accurate UK and European information, let alone distributing it on the web. We went through significant amounts of abuse and accusations of lying and fraud and scamming before we established what UK ponies were and were not, and stamped out the trend of calling damaged ponies or customs UK variants.

If someone proves beyond all doubt that Sundance is a prototype and is from the UK I will be fine with it and I will openly retract the things I said to the contrary. But without that proof - or proof of any pony being sold here - it's just not enough to be satisfactory.

So I'm staying at the position I was at before. Whether Hasbro do or don't know about her, no proven old prototypes from the UK line that I know of have surfaced (the oldest I know of is 1990ish and also China, not HK) and Sundance was sold here only in the Shy Pose and with a NC stamp. We didn't have either a HK Sundance, nor a CP Sundance. Consequently, the argument that she came from the Uk rests entirely on the fact people don't think she came from the US. And that's not enough provenance for me.

[Ember1]

With prototypes there likely will never be that "proof" that you speak of Tafetta. This evidence would have to come from a person who created this particular pony in hasbro.. And the likely hood of someone stepping forward at this stage in the game is not likely.

For me we have to go with expert nirvana collectors who have knowledge of prototypes and customs alike. I have that experience as do several others who have held her recently. And with comparisons to painting time and other ponies for me it is possible to make a informed decision of her authenticity.. And in this case for me and for the other seasoned collectors that have seen her... she is real. That being said I will still be showing her to princessluna in the near future as well as she was telling me that she would like to hold her in person as well.

[Taffeta]

Ember, as you know, I haven't put myself down on either side of the fence over Sundance's authenticity. It doesn't really concern me if she is real, and I hope that she is because I know how much you appreciate having her. My only interest in her is what she means to the pony community and that's something which I think has to be reviewed with a certain amount of caution.

And I agree with you that it's something that has to be determined by people's own personal judgement. I know, however, that in order to produce a pony provenance that convinces a whole community, you need to have some reasonable conviction or proof that connects the pony to the place or time that she's being linked with.

In terms of the "Nirvana Expert" label, I'm a bit befuddled. You do know, I assume, that my site was the first site to ever deal in variant ponies, long before the term Nirvana ever existed. There's a reason why the names Bobbie (and originally, Ladybird) came from my site, and that's because it was the only place at the time doing proper investigation into something which (thankfully) now has a much more global presence. I took that down from the Scrapbook now because it isn't needed; there are many other people with time and knowledge to devote to those things - but I do have some extensive experience in this field. I've also debunked my fair share of myths, most all of them belonging to the UK line. It is that subject - on which I hope you agree I know some information - that I have questions about Sundance. It isn't her authenticity, but the idea she belongs to the UK line somehow.

As I said, I don't have a problem with her being real. If you and others believe she is, thats fine. It doesn't worry me either way to be quite honest. If there's another prototype or there isn't is a bit immaterial in my opinion, since you seem content to just settle with the fact she exists and not look more deeply for proof of where she came from, how and why. The interesting part for me isn't the pony but the history and the reason for her existence. Thus far the entire evidence for her coming from the Uk rests on the slightly dodgy witness testimony of a seller who claimed she obtained the pony from a pony meet that could not have happened at the time she said it did, and who herself was not in the UK selling the item.

There will always be ponies about which we know nothing. LadyG's Baby Billie and my Baby Susie are examples of that, and maybe your Sundance will be one too. Assuming she did come from the UK because someone less experienced than you told you she did isn't very convincing. A lot of people have tried to take advantage of collectors over the years with selling fakes and customs and other things, claiming them as UK variants to get a sale. Sundance needs more than that to claim her place in the pony history books. She's your pony. It's your job to do the hoofwork to find out what that place is.