Any other otherkin?

[brighteyes]

We're trying to get others to stop using the term "phantom limbs" cuz it's appropriation to Native Americans.

I'm not sure I see that connection since phantom limb syndrome is an actual medical thing but whatever. It's also appropriation of transgender individuals. In fact, the timing of this thread makes me wonder if you were recently on another forum.

I'm confused by this also.  Phantom Limb is a very real medical phenomenon (http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/guide/phantom-limb-pain) which affects many people.  How is the term appropriated from Native American cultures?  I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm really very confused about this.

[Katika]

I'm another one that is confused by the otherkin vs Furry difference.  Besides the average Cosplayer, the actual Furries that I've talked to in the past *do* seem to believe (please note that my "seem to believe" comment here is in regards to your statement that Furries can just "take it off at the end of the day" whereas otherkin don't?) that they share some actual aspect as the animal that they represent, and they've always called themselves Furries.  Could my encounters with "Furries" have actually been with otherkin that didn't yet know what to call themselves?  (I'm also not intending to upset or offend; I truly don't know )

[Strawberry Swirl]

Mhhh, no offense, but I fear I don't get it. If your identity is a unicorn (general 'you') and you know that unicorns are not real, then how can it be a real identity and not just a favorite animal?

Because if somebody says it's their identity, then that's what it is.

If a Furry says they are a unicorn they often identify with it.

Not really. They may pretend to be one for different reasons, but that doesn't mean they identify as one.
You could have spoken with individuals who are both furry and otherkin. I know I am. :>

But feeling that you are not fully human or not human at all sounds to me like an uncomfortable state of mind.

I know you don't mean to be rude, but lots of otherkin don't really like to be told that they have an "uncomfortable state of mind." :(
Also avoid calling it a "psychological" issue because I'm sort of afraid others will read that and think "cr*zy."

You see why I called myself ignorant. If you tell me you want to be referred to as a bear I'd find it kinda odd but I'd roll with it. But I would think it's just something you identify with, not something you actually are.

I'm not physically a bear, no way. But I still identify as bearkin.

You see, I have troubles with the concept because so far you basically just told me that it is a thing and that it exists, but to me it sounds a lot like self-hypnosis. Not that there is anything wrong with it, if I envision a cheetah before sprinting I'm actually always a bit faster. I respect that it's real to you because you feel it, but to me it sounds like a combination of many things that include chanelling/self-hypnosis and a desire to find balance by identifying with a guardian creature.

No, nothing wrong with it, but you just should do your best to word things carefully because we all get called a myriad of ableist things to the tune of "psychotic."
It's not your fault. :( People are just really mean.

I'm happy that you brought up the term "guardian creature" because that sort of thing is why saying that you have "phantom limbs" is appropriative to Native culture-
it has a lot to do with spirit animals and such. Keep in mind that I'm white, so I'm not really the first being you should be asking about this, I am only saying what
Native people have told me and others.

It's the same reason why it's disrespectful to say "pizza is my spirit animal" when you wanna go to Papa John's. It's making the concept of spirit animals
out to be something trivial and silly.

If any Native users would like to step in and explain further if needed, I'd love to hear you guys! :3

Besides the average Cosplayer, the actual Furries that I've talked to in the past *do* seem to believe (please note that my "seem to believe" comment here is in regards to your statement that Furries can just "take it off at the end of the day" whereas otherkin don't?) that they share some actual aspect as the animal that they represent,

Furries are pretending. I've not met a single non-kin furry that literally believes that they are their fursona species.

Otherkin aren't pretending, and they don't always just share certain aspects with their kintype. Though, to say that it's
"being a creature trapped in a human's body" would be inaccurate also, considering that my kintype is technically of the
same body type as humans.

also-

@blackcurtains Which forum are you talking about?

[kaoskat]

I.......... Am so confused.

[Strawberry Swirl]

I.......... Am so confused.

Why? :O

[kaoskat]

If I could tell you why then I wouldn't be confused. Maybe I need more coffee. The last 2 threads I've read after this have made no sense at all either.

[Khema]

I.......... Am so confused.

Why? :O

Maybe because it seems like every question has been answered with: Because I said so.

[Strawberry Swirl]

Maybe because it seems like every question has been answered with: Because I said so.

I??? never said that.

If I could tell you why then I wouldn't be confused. Maybe I need more coffee. The last 2 threads I've read after this have made no sense at all either.

Now I'm curious about what you're reading.

[BlackCurtains]

@blackcurtains Which forum are you talking about?

It's a LGBT forum. There have been recent (like yesterday and the day before) otherkin threads claiming it's the same as being trans (pro tip - it is not) and it got a little more than heated. This might just be a coincidence and I might still be feeling a bit defensive/offended at those other threads.

In any case, you can't be another species. You have a human brain. It can be male, female, in between or neither, but it's still human. It's not husky or elephant or shark. Unless you want to get into reincarnation and whatnot - which is fine, if that's your thing.

Meh. I think I'm still annoyed from yesterday.

[Strawberry Swirl]

It's a LGBT forum. There have been recent (like yesterday and the day before) otherkin threads claiming it's the same as being trans (pro tip - it is not) and it got a little more than heated. This might just be a coincidence and I might still be feeling a bit defensive/offended at those other threads.

In any case, you can't be another species. You have a human brain. It can be male, female, in between or neither, but it's still human. It's not husky or elephant or shark. Unless you want to get into reincarnation and whatnot - which is fine, if that's your thing.

Meh. I think I'm still annoyed from yesterday.

I don't go on LGBTQ+ specific forums, so you're probably thinking of somebody else. :3
Wow, people actually tried to say that? Gross.

"In any case, you can't be another species." sorry but that's what I feel.

[kaoskat]

Mmmmmm. There we go. Yup. Coffee.

Now, going to drop a warning before things are a problem to try to be respectful of one another even if you disagree. Off Topic is a happy place and if this thread isn't happy (read: turns into an argument), I will have to lock it.

[brighteyes]

I'm still really confused about the idea that phantom limbs come from native american culture.  As I have understood it, from a medical perspective, a phantom limb is when someone feels a part of their body which is no longer there.  My mom had her leg amputated and felt pain from her foot which was no longer there.  This, we were told by her doctors, was a phantom limb.  Also, my family (on my mom's side) is Sioux and I've never heard of this term before in a non-medical context. 

Is this different the the otherkin meaning of a phantom limb?  I'm trying to understand, not trying to derail or be rude.  I am just very interested in social justice and appropriation and am interested to hear the story behind this.

[Strawberry Swirl]

I'm still really confused about the idea that phantom limbs come from native american culture.  As I have understood it, from a medical perspective, a phantom limb is when someone feels a part of their body which is no longer there.  My mom had her leg amputated and felt pain from her foot which was no longer there.  This, we were told by her doctors, was a phantom limb.  Also, my family (on my mom's side) is Sioux and I've never heard of this term before in a non-medical context. 

I'm sure it's alright if you use it, because you're Native. I think it's also nice to keep in mind that many medical terms can be outdated and are sometimes
used to either insult or appropriate marginalized groups in some contexts.

Is this different the the otherkin meaning of a phantom limb?  I'm trying to understand, not trying to derail or be rude.  I am just very interested in social justice and appropriation and am interested to hear the story behind this.

I know! :3
If you meet say, a being who identifies as an angel and they say that they feel wings sometimes on their back, then lots
of kin will call that phantom limbs. But I believe the problem is that otherkin are many times white, so if they say that they
have phantom limbs, they're implying that they have connections to your traditional spiritual elements. Again, any Natives can correct me if
I'm wrong.

We're starting to develop terms like "invisible limb" that are specifically for otherkin and not used also by a certain race, so I think
switching would be for the best.

[Zapper]

"In any case, you can't be another species." sorry but that's what I feel.

And how does that feel like? It's an honest question, no taunting. Can you describe how one 'knows' they are XYZ instead of Homo sapiens sapiens?

Because, as I see it, us humans can only observe other animals and try to learn about their inner workings and behaviours. This is why it's so hard for me to differentiate this from Furries. So many otherkin seem to be popular animals. Are there any leech otherkin? Flea, grasshoper, moray eel? It seems like the animal has to be mystified or at least romanticized and yes, humanized. The lion is "proud", the unicorn is "shy", the fox is a "trickster".

It seems like without humanizing an animal identification can't exist. And if you need to humanize another animal to make it part of your identity, you are still 100% human in doing so. You can present as a unicorn or a bear, you can ask people to refer to you as one, but in the end this part of your identity is just based on what humans have decided this or that animal should be like.
Like someone else has pointed out, it seems like this is more part of a believe system.

PS: When I said "psychological" I didn't mean to imply otherkin should get themselves treated. You yourself have said you are not physically a bear, so you can only be a bear psychologically. I think it's valid to use this word in this context.

PPS: I still want to know how a non-existing creature can cause the "invisible limb" on humans if not via their strong imaginations.

[Strawberry Swirl]

Ooh! I've also been told this -
" "phantom limb" is a term used for amputees that describes the feeling of having a limb that is no longer there. so it's disrespectful to people who have had amputations to use the term."

So that's another thing to consider, I think. I've also been told that "spirit limb" is the accepted alternative.

"In any case, you can't be another species." sorry but that's what I feel.

And how does that feel like? It's an honest question, no taunting. Can you describe how one 'knows' they are XYZ instead of Homo sapiens sapiens?

It's something you just know. At least, for me it is. I see pictures of bears, and I think to a degree, "oh look it's me!"
I don't look in the mirror and see a bear, because I am physically human. But it's something that's just there in my head.

For those who experience spirit limbs, some have told me that they feel them specifically(but not exclusively)
when they see a picture of their kintype.

Because, as I see it, us humans can only observe other animals and try to learn about their inner workings and behaviours. This is why it's so hard for me to differentiate this from Furries. So many otherkin seem to be popular animals. Are there any leech otherkin? Flea, grasshoper, moray eel? It seems like the animal has to be mystified or at least romanticized and yes, humanized. The lion is "proud", the unicorn is "shy", the fox is a "trickster".

I haven't met any of the species you've listed, but keep in mind that it's also possible to identify with non-animal entities like space or oceans.
I know lots of spacekin, actually. =u= I think that may be the most common. That or dragons. [whispers space dragons]
I do also know a beekin!

It seems like without humanizing an animal identification can't exist. And if you need to humanize another animal to make it part of your identity, you are still 100% human in doing so. You can present as a unicorn or a bear, you can ask people to refer to you as one, but in the end this part of your identity is just based on what humans have decided this or that animal should be like.
Like someone else has pointed out, it seems like this is more part of a believe system.

Honestly? I and one other being are the only ones whose kintype is humanized in any way that I know. Most of my kin
friends feel like feral animals, rather than humanized versions.

PS: When I said "psychological" I didn't mean to imply otherkin should get themselves treated. You yourself have said you are not physically a bear, so you can only be a bear psychologically. I think it's valid to use this word in this context.

PPS: I still want to know how a non-existing creature can cause the "invisible limb" on humans if not via their strong imaginations.

1. I know. Again, it's not your wording that's the problem, it's how other people how to take it. And lots of other people do take it as just
a mental illness. :c

2. Hmm, I dunno. Like I said, I don't experience spirit limbs personally, so I can't say. If my kin friends were on this forum I'd direct you to them
but they're only on Tumblr.