Ponies "changed" by time - Thoughts? G1 discussion

[Ianthe99]

In the collectibles community, a "variant" is something that came from the factory with different colors or whatever than the standard. Time may cause variations.. but that would not be considered a "variant" in the collector's use of the term. Time causes flaws and depredation, which would almost always lower the value of a toy collectible.

That being said.. I do keep ponies that have interesting flaws. I have a Mirror Mirror that has the neatest staining. She looks almost marbled with red.

[claricesponies]

I don't consider degradation or damage to be a variation.  They have to be a variant right off the factory line for me. 

Skeen, I agree with you.

[Sunshine]

I have to respond to everyone on the first page and say CLEARLY I was not using the word VARIANT. I was using the word VARIATION. And explaining that by me saying that, that in fact they are two different things.

Post Merge: December 18, 2013, 11:25:41 AM

Oh I just wanted to add I completely agree with everyone saying that Variants have to come from the factory as such to be called "Variants"...

Call them Deviations, Time Pieces, whatever you want - that's what I was trying to convey using the word Variation being different than a true Variant.

And I didn't mention anything about value because most of the time it is just a personal preference, not a monetary preference that would be the reason to keep that "variation" of a pony in your herd So I totally agree with you guys on that too!

[NoDivision]

I would still say that's pretty much the same thing. Saying "This pony is a variation of the standard release" to me implies it was created that way. It's far too close to an already used and accepted term,  so referring to degraded/faded/etc ponies that way is dangerous since it's not the same thing but the term is almost exactly the same and easily confusable.

[Shiromisa]

I like "oddity" because it has no previous connotation in the context of pony collecting, and doesn't have the same sort of judgement-y feeling as "damaged" or "degraded" or the like. It also doesn't imply anything about the origins of the item, just that it's out of the norm in some way.

[ringlets_]

And sometimes it is difficult to separate out the factory variants and the age variations.  Some of the G1s were available over multiple years and have slightly different colorations because of this. (Blossom, Cotton Candy, Bow Tie, etc.)

[rtattles]

I'd like to point out that for most of us who have been into MLP for many years. It's not about the money. I have two Lucky because I wasn't gonna get rid of my original simply because he had a few age spots.

That being said, if people start changing the terms and trying to pass off faded/time altered ponies as official variants - lets just say it's not going to go over very well. It's also going to be a bit of a problem when new people getting into collecting come in, buy a pony described as a variant and then find out it's not original. There is a reason people see a difference. We as a collecting community don't just make this stuff up to make it hard on everyone - it's a way to help everyone know exactly what item they have.

Plus, this is not just MLP, in general people who collect other things probably follow about the same rules as far as condition of an item and what qualifies as a variant/factory flawed/factory altered item.

This isn't really just particular to MLP other than maybe the word used to explain a factory fluke.

Karen pretty much sums everything up. I too do not considered faded as a variant. When you say variant, I see it as "meant to be that way from the factory", so let's say Moondancer. Argentina Moonie and Mexican Moonie in different pose and some cololours - yes variant. French Moondancer, same pose different colour, different make -yes variant. US Moondancer with purple eyes faded to blue - faded, NOT variant. She may look pretty and interesting, but I do not consider that to be a variant.

Same with white hair Posey, Tornado and white Windy or even the occasional white Bluebell. These are faded. Most collectors wouldn't consider them variants, although some do consider them endearing flaws due to age. I personally will list White haired Posey for sale, and explain briefly that she is uniformly and convincingly discoloured, but I will never use the word VARIANT on her because it's misleading, and certainly does not place her in the same band with the other true Posey variants.

[hathorcat]

For me the kinds of pony you describe don't actually need a name...they are simply poorer versions of the original. Be it faded hair, regrind or leaching out colour, they are the same pony as a pristine unfaded version, its just that time has damaged them. A completely regrind coloured Party Time? I would call that a bait not a variation.

I know it has been mentioned by others here but one of my pet peeves is people misusing the term variant or variation. You see that word thrown around all the time now in the community. Some of the G4s which are simply factory errors or factory mistakes are now called "variants"...they are not - they are mistakes and rejects...not even falling under the prototype banner. Unless something is intentional it is not a variation or a variant.

Sure, people can use whatever word they wish, they can place the value on their pony whereever they want, they can prefer a pony in any condition or collect that pony in all kinds of conditions. And maybe I am a "purist" [yuck ] but I can't see the word variant or variance being used in relation to a pony which is simply in poor condition because of sun, environment or play. If a Fizzy has scuffed eyes, frizzy hair and all her symbols are almost buffed off over the years...she is not a variant? She is "changed" because of time of course but she is not a variation of regular condition Fizzy...just a poor condition Fizzy.

Of course people should and do collect or enjoy these ponies; I know there are a few ponies I prefer when the colours are a little different or hair colours have paled [I love Squeezer with white hair rather than pink!] but for me they are simply the same pony but in poorer condition. So I keep them if I like the pony enough but with the knowledge that if and when I sell her I am describing a regular pony but with some problems.

[Sunshine]

I like "oddity" because it has no previous connotation in the context of pony collecting, and doesn't have the same sort of judgement-y feeling as "damaged" or "degraded" or the like. It also doesn't imply anything about the origins of the item, just that it's out of the norm in some way.

I'd agree with this. I like "Oddity".

I never meant this to be about using a term in order to sell or value a pony in a different way... So, I have never referred to these "changed over time" ponies as variants... sorry if the word variant and variation weren't different enough - so variant vs oddities... So yea, it's ridiculous to think that a pony with complete regrind should be listed as a "rare variation" or something like that in order to get more money out of it. That is not at all what I'm trying to talk about - I'm moreso talking about in your own collection, for your own personal pleasure - no value attached

The thing is - what I'm trying to say is, so what if it is damage? And I think you're going out on a limb saying "Oh well one missing a leg is now changed over time, that's not a variation/oddity!" - well no kidding... but I'm talking about things that change a pony - even if it is "damage" but the pony itself is still in nice shape. Like the examples I gave - a Majesty with blue eyes who's not Italian, a Peachy with White Hearts, a Posey with White Tulips - I mean I've seen plenty of people keep these symbol color "oddities" in armies and the like... and so my question mainly was - do you keep those oddities, and what do you think of ponies like that?

Sorry if I was unclear or made it sound like I was trying to find a way to give every Tom, Dick and Harry a new way to advertise damaged or "changed" ponies to make them seem like "rare variants" or to try and use the term "variant" for them.

My Blue eyed US Majesty is an oddity, My mermaid hair Majesty is a variant (vs the Water Nixie).

So, I guess I have to say that I do love "Oddities" - I love finding a nice pony in great shape that has no other difference except something like symbol color or eye color... or even the whole body being a different color, if it looks nice.

[nollilols]

I have to agree with everyone else, call it what you will but to me it's just a regular pony in poorer condition, and generally I don't want them!

[hathorcat]

It's a thin line though subject to who the collector is. You can say that "And I think you're going out on a limb saying "Oh well one missing a leg is now changed over time, that's not a variation/oddity!" - well no kidding... " is perhaps a bit extreme. Although that's not quite what I was saying But in my opinion it is comparable to a pony which has complete regrind or has her hair completely faded. Regrind and hair fading is no more an oddity than a missing leg. It's a break down in plastic or expose to the sun. Its damage - each way - caused by time/environment/play etc. But...that's in my opinion. Everyone is going to be different.

No one is saying a person can't love and appreciate every pony no matter its condition and whether its got damage or not. Anyone can call ponies whatever they desire in whatever condition they are in; but for some people the question is a matter of asking if they place extra or equal value [be it monetary or emotionally] on damaged ponies. I am just giving my opinion on such a question.

I am going to leave it for someone else to point out that oddball/oddity is already a term people apply to a certain group of variants! Sorry!!! *runs back out of thread*

[ashlyne]

I have to respond to everyone on the first page and say CLEARLY I was not using the word VARIANT. I was using the word VARIATION. And explaining that by me saying that, that in fact they are two different things.
....
Call them Deviations, Time Pieces, whatever you want - that's what I was trying to convey using the word Variation being different than a true Variant.

I never meant this to be about using a term in order to sell or value a pony in a different way... So, I have never referred to these "changed over time" ponies as variants... sorry if the word variant and variation weren't different enough - so variant vs oddities... 

Oh, OK, Sunshine.   I think the confusion seems to have come from the fact that most of us consider "variant" to be the same thing (just shorter word) than "variation".   Thanks for explaining that's not what you meant     You may want to clear that up at the beginning of your post, since people don't always read every page of a thread and might miss your explanation?  Just might help keep us on track 

(As a side note and please don't take this the wrong way .... I'm going to continue to call these ponies flawed and damaged.  "Oddities" and "deviations" are certainly MUCH nicer words when talking about ponies we love inspite of their condition, and I love that people want to do that     But in this community where there are so many new collectors, it actually helps educate everyone by using the words "regrind", "sun-faded", "discolored", etc so there isn't that confusion or accidental misrepresentation.  That's probably why people have responded off-topic from what you were really asking.)

So back to your original question.... Do you like and collect these kinds of ponies (faded, discolored, etc)?   

Sometimes, yes!   If it's flawed evenly and I like the result, sometimes I will hold onto the pony, at least for awhile.   Many times, I've held onto a pony that I thought was damaged in this way, and it turned out to be a true variant. What I thought was a faded body or hair color, turned out to be a standard factory color used in a different country.   If a pony is different, and it could possibly be a factory difference, I'll keep it till I find out the truth  

[Shiromisa]

I am going to leave it for someone else to point out that oddball/oddity is already a term people apply to a certain group of variants! Sorry!!! *runs back out of thread*

Ah, does it? Sorry, I'd never heard that one before.

[nollilols]

I think the way I look at it is as follows:

The closer a pony looks to the way it did when it came out of the factory, whether its regular, an error, or a variant, the more I will like it because it's a more accurate representation of what was originally manufactured and released, whether that was deliberate or accidental (in the case of errors). These ponies can potentially remain in mint, undamaged condition.

Any pony damaged by light, time, degradation etc, in such a way as to detract from how it initially appeared when it exited the factory - is nothing more than damaged, to me. If people like them, that's absolutely fine, but they're just damaged ponies, nothing more. I don't think you can divide it up and say one is special just because its damage made it look different but still pretty, compared to damage that makes it broken and baity - that's just picking and choosing what you personally perfer out of a bunch of damaged ponies.

Now, I'm not saying that if I came across a pony damaged in some way that still looked nice but different from original, that I would inherently throw it out, but it would inherently have less value (in every sense of the word) to me by virtue of having deviated from it's factory appearance/quality.

I think the only word I could apply to such ponies, if any ever made it into my collection, would be 'quirky'.

[ponylady]

Sunshine while I know your post was harmless, it is a subject you bring up often in the Corral. Thus most likely the reason you are getting the responses you are receiving.

There are terms within this community that have been used for ages, like ashlyne pointed out. It is a way to keep everyone in check and that there is no misrepresentation, ever. So it a nutshell those oddities that you are referring to are regrind, faded hair, discoloration, pin dot mold, age marks, smooze, etc. They are nothing special unless you, yourself find them special.

I can guarantee one thing though, if you list them on eBay as an "oddity" you are going to have some serious issues in the long run without noting their proper issues. No use changing what has already been in place for almost a decade