Name That Caterpillar?

[Rosencrantz]

I have no idea why we should respect you destroying nature.

[Elisto]

If you're talking about those common, large green or brown mantises, well, they're not a native species but from Asia, so keeping those isn't hurting the ecosystem because they shouldn't be here in the first place. If you want the eggs to hatch, though, you'd do best to put them outside because they need to be exposed to specific temperature variations in order to develop properly and hatch. But I think you said you did put it outside? Actually, same for the Luna cocoon...it's most likely going to overwinter like that, and if you keep it indoors or anywhere its relatively warmer, it will probably just emerge too early and never get to reproduce.

As for everything else, I understand...I used to take insects in, like keep snails over the winter and even had them reproduce, and I can certainly understand wanting to take care of insects that have been injured, particularly those injured by human activities. But as much as you care about them, they are wild animals. They don't get lonely, they are capable of taking care of themselves (certainly, the uninjured ones are), and so they don't really need our help.

It obviously upsets you, and I'm certainly happy to see someone else who cares about insects, but try not to anthropomorphize them too much because they're not humans and don't feel the same things we do. They're there own beings with their own ways of surviving. Think about it this way - you feel so strongly about the well-being of the insects, but not the frogs that you're killing, because they're "common" even though many insects are "common" as well, like the mantis. You recognize that organisms eat other organisms, but it's only your own prioritizing, your own assessment of what's valuable, that's determining what gets "saved" and what doesn't. So I understand that you feel compassionately for the insects, but since you don't seem to feel that way for other things also part of the ecosystem, I hope you understand why others are upset by what you're doing.

[Marigold]

Hey guys, I don't want to argue whether or not it is good to take wild animals out of their habitats because it does entirely depend on the species, the circumstances (injury, threat), and the ability of the captor to care properly for the animal and release it back, but please know that there is a great importance to introducing your children to wildlife. 

This is a BIG problem with our society. We are so out of touch with nature and so many kids are growing up without an appreciation of the natural world.  It is important for there to be people who are excited about living things and showing them to their kids.  As long as they are not catching and pinning these creatures to a trophy board, I think this is a positive. Bighick's children might grow up to be future biologists or ecologists that stem from these early activities. 

Yes, I encourage proper research before keeping any species captive for any length of time.  And yes, please release all native species back to the wild. But overall there is a great need for more people like Bighicks who will teach their children to love nature.

Today's inquisitive people are not ruining nature. The biggest threat to nature is development and apathy.  From everything I've read, Bighick's family is reading up on the species they find. I hope the tree frog species was researched to see if it was common, but it sounds like the mantids were released (males) or kept safe (injured females).  As someone else above pointed out, the Luna moth cocoon might be predated in the wild, so keeping it until it emerges could help it out.  Perhaps a little more research is needed to learn where to keep the cocoon so it will emerge at the right time of the year and can be released immediately.   Same goes with the mantid eggs. Research the best way to give them a chance at life and then release them.

It is wonderful that so many of you really care about these creatures and are very concerned about how they are treated and the effect on nature this is having.  I wish more people felt this way. 

[BlondePonyTail]

Thank you for your insight on my fiance's thread... I have chosen to keep my mouth shut on this particular thread, as I get emotional and say things I shouldn't...

WE do research these species, and the children have an avid interest in them. My 11 year old daughter is excited to write a paper on the Mantids For school when the time comes. The specific frog that the mantis ate is one that it would have eaten anyways... that day there were 18 of those frogs ALL OVER the front door.... I hardly think that it is endangered. And in my research, these large mantis commonly eat small reptiles, amphibians and have even been seen eating small birds!

Also, it is not a motorbike that the neighbor is riding though the woods, but a bushhog... A LARGE and powerful lawn mower, which will kill anything that isnt fast enough to escape it, completely decimate saplings, tall grasses, shrubs ets. and just CLEAR OUT an entire area.... There have been injured and mutilated rabbits, deer fawn etc. When an area is cleared surviving creatures are displaced and alot of time on our lawn or front door step.

We are in no way acting maliciously. I have education in biology and sciences and research EVERYTHING... but again thank you for backing him up a little bit. These are by no means trophies, they are creatures that by helping we are educating ourselves and our children. The mantis eggs have been placed in the woods, high in a tree where they have a chance to survive, and winterize before hatching in the spring. And the Luna will be released upon its emerging, the countless crows and woodpeckers here would surely eat it if I put it out now.

My daughter is no longer afraid of insects, and doesn't just stomp them all willy nilly anymore... and she even talks to the crickets and grasshoppers that are put into the Mantis tank. She appreciates the predator/prey relationship and is grasping an understanding of the food chain.

<3
BPT

[DancingPhoenix]

It's great that you want your children to learn yes, and that they are in fact interested in wildlife but you know what's better than bringing creatures to them to learn? Taking them to where the creatures are naturally and showing how they live in their habitat. Field research is much more rewarding than just having a bug in a glass box because they get to see how said creature gets to act in nature. Go on nature hikes, and that way you get some fresh air and exercise as well (which is always good!)

As for feeding the mantis' other bugs and animals you find outside you're playing a role in the food chain that you shouldn't be. Natural selection and how the creatures hunt is very important, and honestly it seems like you're only doing research on the predator and not the prey. You should research both before making anything that even resembles and educated decision about who to sacrifice to the mantis or not. After all that is what you're doing, the creatures you're feeding to them don't get a chance to escape or fight. They are simply being sacrificed. Considering how you feel for these animals being killed by your neighbor you're pretty hypocritical toward these "prey" creatures.

[BlondePonyTail]

* Throws her hands up in the air and walks away from the thread *

[Skeen]

Why are ya'll assuming I keep the Luna Moth?....and did not take its pic and put it right back in the wild AFTER it hitched a ride in on my cloths from walking the dog in the woods....HHHHHHHHHMMMMM 

Oh I have two Mantis now and both have been bread with males and I was able to save the males and they both made there egg sacks that I was able to put in a safe and secure location in the forest and I am keeping the moth it has already spun its little silk sack in that green leaf in the picture and when that beautiful Luna moths comes out I will be sure to post a picture of it before I release it back into nature....I just wanted to know how ya'll assumed it 

You ARE keeping the moth, so don't act all self-righteous and defensive when you're asked if you're going to or not.  Besides, you kept the mantis you were going to release "in a few weeks" so she could lay eggs, so you've set a precedent for keeping wild animals already. 

[Shiromisa]

Why are ya'll assuming I keep the Luna Moth?....and did not take its pic and put it right back in the wild AFTER it hitched a ride in on my cloths from walking the dog in the woods....HHHHHHHHHMMMMM 

Oh I have two Mantis now and both have been bread with males and I was able to save the males and they both made there egg sacks that I was able to put in a safe and secure location in the forest and I am keeping the moth it has already spun its little silk sack in that green leaf in the picture and when that beautiful Luna moths comes out I will be sure to post a picture of it before I release it back into nature....I just wanted to know how ya'll assumed it 

You ARE keeping the moth, so don't act all self-righteous and defensive when you're asked if you're going to or not.  Besides, you kept the mantis you were going to release "in a few weeks" so she could lay eggs, so you've set a precedent for keeping wild animals already.

That's what's worrying me. Others have said the warmer temps inside might cause the moth to emerge ahead of schedule, in the middle of winter. Then, welp, that's effectively another moth out of the gene pool...

Post Merge: October 08, 2013, 07:15:40 AM

and I did feed them a tree frog and to be honest they have eaten more than 10 tree frogs  tree frogs are not rare I am sorry if they are in some areas but here they are not and if I had a thread about a frog I owned eating bugs I dont think anyone would care....the facts are I like these little guys and I will keep doing what I am doing and more people seem to like the nice pic's I have posted of them than not.......you dont have to like what I do but you should respect my right to do it.....and a bush hog is a GIANT lawnmower

This is still bothering me. The two situations aren't equivalent because if you had a pet frog, presumably you'd be feeding it crickets and other easily-found insects, maybe even crickets from a pet store sold as food. You wouldn't be feeding it rare bugs.

[NovelNerd]

I'm not going to jump in the fray much because from what I've read here and the other threads you won't be convinced otherwise. I will say as someone that learned about wildlife without having to keep it in a jar an someone that grew up on a farm and has run a bush hog I find these excuses invalid reasons. Course that's just my opinion, but it seems like you're coming up with tons of reasons why what you're doing is right. Whatever makes you feel better I guess. I think the jist here is a ton of people do not support what you're doing and don't want to hear about it.

[MikeysGrrrl]

I'm lost on what all the fuss is about, why is everyone so upset? How is what BigHicks and BlondePonyTail doing any different from someone owning a rat, snake, lizard etc? You would still have to provide them with food. I'm sure that there are tons of owners of those animals that would rather grab their pets food from their yard as opposed to driving all the way to the pet store to get them.

The fact is all animals and pets were meant to be wild, not kept in houses or cages. But no one is protesting turtles, dogs, birds etc...

My husband and I had 2 snails in the spring along with a lightning bug, we didn't keep them very long. But I really don't see the harm in having them for a short time frame or even as a pet. I do agree that most people, myself included have no problem stomping on bugs that are in their house or swatting them when they land on you.

I'm sorry but I really believe that everyone is getting far too worked up and being very judgemental which is kinda the opposite of what I thought this community was about.

*Off to hide before I get yelled at*

[BlondePonyTail]

Oh Pamela... I love you! <3

[BigHicks1977]

I am going to step in again and put an END to it....here is the deal I feel what I am doing is ok and if you dont like it than thats your opinion and you have a right to it now after all that said if in the future you do not like my threads than do not read them just skip right on by and if you do read them and have nothing nice to say then keep it to yourself THAT IS IN THE RULES...I did not post this in WHATS YOUR PROBLEM....SO GUESS WHAT I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS.....Now have a good day and thats the end of it  Thank You I will not be posting anymore wildlife pic's......ON HERE 

[Shiromisa]

I'm lost on what all the fuss is about, why is everyone so upset? How is what BigHicks and BlondePonyTail doing any different from someone owning a rat, snake, lizard etc? You would still have to provide them with food. I'm sure that there are tons of owners of those animals that would rather grab their pets food from their yard as opposed to driving all the way to the pet store to get them.

The fact is all animals and pets were meant to be wild, not kept in houses or cages. But no one is protesting turtles, dogs, birds etc...

My husband and I had 2 snails in the spring along with a lightning bug, we didn't keep them very long. But I really don't see the harm in having them for a short time frame or even as a pet. I do agree that most people, myself included have no problem stomping on bugs that are in their house or swatting them when they land on you.

I'm sorry but I really believe that everyone is getting far too worked up and being very judgemental which is kinda the opposite of what I thought this community was about.

*Off to hide before I get yelled at*

The problem is that the insects and animals have a theme of being hard to find or threatened in their natural habitat. I don't mean to yell, so I'm sorry if this is coming off like that, I just want to explain. To use a mammalian example, say someone grabbed a red squirrel out of their yard to feed a pet snake, or found an endangered turtle with very specific needs in their yard and decided it'd make a great pet. It's a similar reaction, only a different kingdom.

To BigHicks: That is your decision. However, it's not in the rules that we have to agree with everything you say or do; just as you're entitled to make these threads, it's others' right to state their opinions on them.

[Elisto]

Well, dogs and cats aren't "meant to be wild" since we've bred them to live with us, but in any event, I do think everyone's overreacting a bit...taking in a few injured insects (some that aren't even native!) is not "destroying nature." I admit I don't think that necessarily means keeping them is automatically OK, but I do agree with Marigold that it can be a good way to learn about wildlife up close (because not everything can be learned just from observing them in their habitat), and I also agree with DancingPhoenix that observing things in nature is important too. I'm bothered by the idea of feeding them frogs because frogs are more likely to be able to feel pain than other insects are, but I don't personally like the idea of having to decide which animal I value least to feed a predator in general, even though I do have cats, so that's more of an ethical issue I don't have an answer to.

So I apologize, I don't want to tell you guys what to do with the insects you find because I don't know what the "right" answer is. I'm an entomologist, so I'm not too thrilled with keeping insects if reason is just that a person thinks they can take care of an insect, or any wild animal, better than it can take care of itself, which was the impression I initially had, but if you're using the opportunity to, research, learn about them, and appreciate your local diversity, I don't think you're likely having much of an impact on your environment given the situation you described and what seems to be your intent to release. Except for the frogs...that's a bit unusual of a food source, even if mantises can and sometimes do eat small vertebrates.

[BlueChaos]

I'm lost on what all the fuss is about, why is everyone so upset? How is what BigHicks and BlondePonyTail doing any different from someone owning a rat, snake, lizard etc? You would still have to provide them with food. I'm sure that there are tons of owners of those animals that would rather grab their pets food from their yard as opposed to driving all the way to the pet store to get them.

The fact is all animals and pets were meant to be wild, not kept in houses or cages. But no one is protesting turtles, dogs, birds etc...

My husband and I had 2 snails in the spring along with a lightning bug, we didn't keep them very long. But I really don't see the harm in having them for a short time frame or even as a pet. I do agree that most people, myself included have no problem stomping on bugs that are in their house or swatting them when they land on you.

I'm sorry but I really believe that everyone is getting far too worked up and being very judgemental which is kinda the opposite of what I thought this community was about.

*Off to hide before I get yelled at*

Most of the rats, lizards, and snakes were bred in captivity as pets, not taken from the wild. Many generations go into those animals. I assure you, you do not want a wild rat as a pet. Please don't use that argument.

Also Bighicks, I assumed you kept the Luna moth caterpillar because you kept the mantis. Just putting 2 and 2 together here.