Collectors vs. Scalpers

[Echo_Shell]

Business is business and most businesses squash people and competition.  It's not nice, but then it's not nice when one doughnut chain forces another to go bankrupt, destroying the lives and dreams of many attached to that business as a result.  But the one doughnut chain didn't do this out of spite, but for survival and to preserve the lives and dreams that depend on it.  Yes people do make a living scalping/reselling.  I know it's hard to imagine, but it's true.  Toys, clothes, machine parts, all go to ebay and many people do depend on those sales.  They do not do this to hurt parents or to frustrate you, but to make money.  Simple, yes?  Do they need that money?  Case by case basis.  Maybe yes.  Maybe no.  But it is wrong to cover them all in a blanket of evil.  Yes that is wrong.  You don't know why they do what they do.  You can't.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

As much as I don't like when anyone (collector OR scalper) cleans out the shelf, I have to look at the bigger picture than just my hurt feelings. 

Take a toy store.... um, TRU for example.  TRU ordered and paid for a case of dolls.  If someone doesn't buy the dolls, TRU doesn't make its sales goal for that toyline and they don't order it again.  It doesn't matter to TRU whether it's a scalper, collector, over-excited parent, kid, whatever.  If the dolls don't sell, eventually the  Doll Company goes out of business.  Now...  obviously Mattel's not going to go under from piles of old RollerMaze stock.  But they might end MH if the product sales were to drastically slow!   

If one is a MH fan, and want more dolls to continue to be released, and want the line to last several years, one has to tolerate that scalpers will do their thing, and so will collectors.  Lots of collectors buy extras and sell at a profit.  Should we feel the same about them as scalpers for emptying shelves or does it somehow make it all better because the collector is emotionally enjoying the object?  HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!  Please don't answer and stress out the mods!  :-p

I totally agree with pukunui - most of the "problem" is created by people who can't be patient.  If you search for Monster High on ebay in say, five years, do you honestly, truly, really think Ebay will say, "No search results returned"?   Probably not.  But the fact remains that most people say, "I want it NOW NOW NOW NOW YESTERDAYYYYYY!" about mass-produced products and pay extremely overpriced scalpers to obtain the items sooner.  There are millions of each MH doll produced.  They are NOT going to disappear into thin air when the line ends, like some sort of wacky sci-fi quantum space incident.

[Galactica]

I am lucky enough to have a solution to this problem now- at least with respect to Target goods-

The City Target opened practically across the street from where I work.  If I get there at 7:30 a.m. (they open at 7) - NO one has been at the toys yet- and I can check out the stock before it all gets swiped.  It is not a terrible burden to check back on a regular basis, since it is on the way anyway.    But I will never be there first for TRU or Walmart-  they are far far far away....

It does seem that the stores (at least at first) just were not ordering enough MH or Ponies-  the entire stock would be wiped in one day (probably by re-sellers, but also kids that wanted MH, and random collectors of all ages) -  but very lately, there seems to be quite a lot of each - so maybe (at least Target) is getting the message and ordering more toys...


That said though- there are some toys I haven't been able to get who have not reappeared-  Gil & FS AJ, for starters.

[Vertefae]

The only time I really despise scalpers is like the guy on Black Friday who wiped out almost the entire pallet. That was rude and in my opinion hateful. Parents had waited in line just as long to get those for their kids. That was someone taking advantage of others.

[kmlv23]

Definitely scalpers, I'm not even just saying that as a collector. I'm saying that as someone who works RETAIL and has SEEN the havoc they wreak in honestly? The name of greed. It's sad.

[lil_meke]

wow, everyone has some really good points. I dont like scalpers personally. The difference being that most dolls i cant buy here in Australia. You guys are so lucky to have all the monster high range. Its quite difficult to collect dolls that aren't in your country. If it wasn't for some of the amazing Arena members here who will pick up dolls for retail and ask for nothing back. I wouldn't have half the collection i do. They are happy to just help out a fellow collector. Scaplers are just out for the money ( what ever the motive) and its unfair to see dolls so so cheap retail in USA stores. And then see the same dolls being sold for tripple the price. Im thankful for the Arena, other wise I too would have to buy from scalpers. How else would i get these dolls?
Eg. A lovely arena member sold me a Jinafire Long for retail. One of three she picked up to help out arena members. She made no money of them. Would you call her a scalper? even though she took three dolls? i think not.

[Wardah]

I have come to the conclusion that I will never have Gil, 1600 Clawd or DotD Lagoona unless Mattel rereleases them. The prices on ebay are more than I can afford for a single doll and it seems the only thing people are willing to trade for is the SDCC doll.

[Blitzn]

Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids. 

What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.

I agree with this. Does it bum me out when I can't find a doll I want? Sure. But I am not entitled to that doll, and nor is anyone else. A child is not more entitled to a doll than an adult collector, a collector is not more entitled than someone who wants to resell the doll. These items are on the shelf available for anyone to buy as many as they want. Whoever gets there first and has the money gets to buy the doll. If someone wants to buy every doll in the store, that is their right just as much as it would be mine to buy just one.

uhm yeah I dont think anyone is disputing that point. And I wasn't saying there was any entitlement involved. You also need to review the previous posts to understand the gist of "buying for his own kids" and what I said in my same post that you quoted (that its a moot point). I think you totally missed the point.

For someone to think that what he did was all good...is beyond me to try to explain what a grinch is.

[Wardah]

In this economy finding a job isn't always easy and what the government gives isn't always enough to make ends meet. If someone doesn't have some kind of crafty talent then reselling is the only way to make money and at least better it be dolls on ebay than drugs or themselves on the street corners. That said I also feel it is the buyers that are responsible. If they wouldn't pay these crazy prices maybe I would be able to find a Gil or 1600 Clawd or DotD Lagoona for a reasonable price. If nobody was buying them they would have to lower their prices to move them.

I think a lot of parents use "Santa" as a way to get their kids to behave and then when they ask for a hard to find doll from "Santa" they feel obligated to get it or their kid might think that they weren't good enough or just stop believing and then they can't use it as a way to get them to behave.

[octocorn]

As someone mentioned above, the person buying 3 Jinafire's to sell to people here, even at cost if you saw her loading up a cart with 3 Jinafire's would you not be like "rawr..scalpers.." because you don't know these people, and you have no idea what they're doing with the dolls.  That guy loading up his cart in the video could have been donating them all to charity for all we know.  Probably not, but you never know! I know my issues with people buying up all the dolls are purely selfish.  Anyone can buy them for any reason, however many they want, and that's completely fine, but I will grumble about it because I'm human, and I wants me them dolls!

[Honey Bunches]

Business is business and most businesses squash people and competition.  It's not nice, but then it's not nice when one doughnut chain forces another to go bankrupt, destroying the lives and dreams of many attached to that business as a result.  But the one doughnut chain didn't do this out of spite, but for survival and to preserve the lives and dreams that depend on it.  Yes people do make a living scalping/reselling.  I know it's hard to imagine, but it's true.  Toys, clothes, machine parts, all go to ebay and many people do depend on those sales.  They do not do this to hurt parents or to frustrate you, but to make money.  Simple, yes?  Do they need that money?  Case by case basis.  Maybe yes.  Maybe no.  But it is wrong to cover them all in a blanket of evil.  Yes that is wrong.  You don't know why they do what they do.  You can't.

I must agree, and I think this is well stated.

My frusteration with the scalpers is that a good portion of them are not running legitimate businesses. No business licences, no tax reporting... Just scooping up what's already been marked up retail and marking it up again for resale, and in mass. But, I believe in free trade and commerce and the welfare of small business.

Sticky question. 

[zannid]

My frusteration with the scalpers is that a good portion of them are not running legitimate businesses. No business licences, no tax reporting...

This is my main issue with "scalpers/resellers". If you're doing this as a legitimate source of income, then you should just bite the bullet and pay for the licensing fees so you can go ahead and buy wholesale/resell at a more reasonable price. Now, if the reason you're NOT doing that is so you don't have to pay taxes, well that's kind of fishy.

I understand casual selling or selling things you can't buy wholesale. I occasionally bought and sold Japanese stuff until the economy went to heck and the exchange rate tanked - can't buy wholesale as they tend not to ship outside Japan. But if you're to the point where you are buying out multiple cases (some before the store has opened them) and going to multiple stores, well, you're doing this as more than an occasional thing.

[Lon-san]

I think you have a really good point there.

What's more, a lot of stores already puts a limit to the number of items you can buy during certain promotions, be they toasters or bags of chips. Why not limit very hot toys to 2 of each?      It's not like there are scalpers for chips, so the stores do it to keep customers happy... how about keeping parents from a lot panic and distress during holiday shopping? (yeah I know it wouldn't magically solve the problem but it couldn't hurt either)

Actually, folks TOTALLY scalp chips! Not on Ebay or anything but before rules were in place, owners of small stores would come in, buy cartloads of chips/pop/whatever and sell it at a mark-up in their own store. People don't want to go to another store or nothing else is open so they buy from the little store and a profit is made. It doesn't stop any store owners with big families or friends to help but it does slow them down so maybe someone else can get the deal.

I agree with the idea of a limit like that on hot items. Even if it was as loose as 2 of each character. At least it would give someone else a chance over shelf-clearers.

[astroasis]

I tend to have a negative view of scalpers/resellers in general and I refuse to buy dolls/toys at a high mark-up. A few dollars, sure - because I'm willing to pay a bit more than retail for the convenience of not having to stalk stores or even leave my house at all. But anything more than that, I just do without whatever the toy or doll is.

HOWEVER, with that said... I think the companies are more to blame for the scarcity of some toys and the fact that scalpers become the ONLY option. For instance, the new Scaris line was being scalped and resold immediately. But more and more are arriving in stores and online retailers - and dolls that were going for $50 on eBay last week can be found online for $14 the next - because Mattel keeps providing more of them.

Now, if Mattel kept pumping out enough toys to cover the demand (or even just come CLOSE to it), ALL of the dolls would eventually be buyable from legitimate retailers and scalpers would only be another option (if you're impatient or whatever). So I don't blame scalpers for the scarcity of the male dolls - I blame Mattel. They've GOT to realize what's going on and release more of these dolls.

I'm not meaning retired dolls, of course. Once a toy's "run" is over, it's understandable that resellers would be the only option, as the company simply isn't making more of that toy at all. But short-stacking certain dolls and refusing to correct the error by making up the difference in future ship-outs is pretty lame. And it seems to me like it would be detrimental to Mattel's overall profits, too.

[DiamondDreams]

although I do understand some of the points on the argument, I say scalpers.  As a collector, a parent of a collector, and a collector who helps other collectors out occasionally, I will sometimes buy more than one of the same type of doll.  However, I have made it my own personal practice never to buy out the entire first stock run of a store and to only really start helping other collectors once new dolls have started appearing in multiple stores around me.  I have the luck to live in an area with 5 or 6 Walmarts, 4 Targets, and one TRU within a 20 minute radius of me.  I know I have a resource rich area---  however, I'm also pretty certain that I also live near some scalpers or fellow collectors since I have seen shelves packed full one day completely bare the next.  As a student I have had a lot of time to watch these patterns and ponder them....  Luckily I've witnessed enough kids getting the dolls to know they're getting hooked up too  

I am with the above poster who gets frustrated with the resellers who are not licensed and not reporting for taxes- at the volume that a lot of the ebay sellers are working at, there really is no way to deny they are running a business. I will be billing for a free lance graphic design job in a little over a week- and there is no way I could get away with not having a tax number or reporting that work for taxes....my personal business run out of my  office is really no different (less profitable most likely, but still, no different) then theirs- so the taxation should be there too.