Collectors vs. Scalpers

[ViciousJupiter]

I'm gonna go on a limb and say it's pretty even.  Scalpers Buy more than they need, collectors Pay more than they need.  If everyone wasn't so desperate to get said dolls right away and pay the crazy asking prices, scalpers wouldn't have a market.  But if scalpers didn't buy up everything, then collectors wouldn't need to pay crazy prices.  So think the finger points in both directions on this one.

Just my 2cents

[Dorriebelle]

Of course, I loathe the scalpers - I even have the 'No Scalping' sticker on my blog - but, as it's been pointed out, if the fans and their cash weren't so abundant, the scalpers wouldn't exist. I know we all want the latest as soon as it hits retail, but most of the time, a bit of patience means the difference between paying $20. and paying $60. Often, it's as little as a day. What's rare and 'HTF' one month is often a shelf-sitter the next.

Thing is, this isn't just scalper vs. fan/collector. That whole 'wait' advice ain't worth crap if the manufacturer short-packs and doesn't distribute near enough to meet demand. I've been lucky and pounced on the one Gil I ever saw, but I never saw any of the second wave of 'Dawn of the Dance' dolls. Never, not one. I've seen all of one Signature Spectra, and it had a 'Hold' tag on it for another customer. Clearly, Mattel would have sold far more dolls if they'd made enough. I'm not sure why they haven't clued in that the male MH dolls aren't like Ken - many more fans *want* Deuce, Jackson, Clawd, and Holt, and any others (hint - Slo-Moe, Heath !)- but Mattel persists on short-packing and replacing them mid-shipment with more of the Mane Six (grin). It makes fans fear every doll will be like that - grab it now, or pay ridiculous prices later - which just furthers the current scalper/collector wars.

In a way, MH is a victim of its own success, but sometimes, it's great to have financial limits. It makes overpaying not even close to an option !

[Fräulein_Kim]

I agree with Dorriebelle and others in that it's the companies who are to blame eventually. They don't produce enough to meet demand. And they don't distribute well enough. Scalpers would not stand a chance if there were always dolls to be found in the store and collectors would not 'take away dolls from children' (which I find a silly argument to begin with, but maybe that's just me..).

It's not just Mattel, tho.. ohoho by far not. Few days ago the Nintendo WiiU launched in Europe and they did not even produce enough to meet PREORDERS! Come on.. not delivering enough for preorders made like 3-4 months ago? Needless to say there was WAR over those consoles in every store that sold them.
So a lot of them companies do it and I never got why.. to create more desire for the product? To make people jump at it the moment they see it? ..but in the long run, all it creates is frustration and upset on the customer's side. If there were more than enough of one product, it might take longer to sell, and some might even have to be reduced (no problem imo since the cost to produce most things and the amount they sell for differs GREATLY.. even when reduced by 50% they'd still make a profit).. but I still think it would create more profit and a better, more satisfied market in the long run.

[karrie91]

It's kind of a kettle calling the pot black thing..

Because... honestly, say Walmart was having a huge clearence blow out of Monster High's after Christmas... and they were RIDICULOUSLY cheap... and we all KNEW they weren't going to release the dolls again.. umm.. heck yeah I'd buy them up. And I know a lot of other people would too. We'd buy them, and sell them for either their original price or more for funds for other dolls/things we want. There's nothing wrong with people making a profit because an item is hot. Actually, it's pretty brilliant that places like Ebay make it possible for them to do so.

Do I like that they do it? No... sometimes I can't find what I want and have to consider paying a ridiculously high price. Which I don't... lol. I just go on to another doll to like and hope that one pops up for cheap. But I can't go and judge someone for doing something to make a living. Whether it's for sick children in hospitals or for them to just have nice things in their life... it's their RIGHT to sell what they want. If I had the money, I'd rather invest in selling dolls than anything else. Of course I wouldn't be selling them for RIDICULOUS prices. Just enough to cover shipping fees and selling fees as well as profit.

As for collectors... we're doing the same thing. Every doll that we own is a doll that isn't in the hands of a child. Come on people.. we're no better. At least the scalpers are selling their dolls. We're keeping them locked up and taking pretty photo's of them. 

But no matter... trust me.. if a kid really wants a Monster High doll.. they're STILL are some in stores. There always will be as long as they are made. They mass produce them. Just like everything else.. if little Suzie wants that really hard to find Toralie, her mommy is just going to have to do what every other mommy has to do when there's a hot hard to find toy.. pay the price. Or make a custom

That's my opinion on the matter. 

[pukunui]

I actually think that the people who buy from the scalpers (some of whom are undoubtedly collectors) are the worst. The scalpers wouldn't have a leg to stand on if no one was actually willing to pay their outrageously inflated prices. The people who pay those prices are just fueling the scalping industry. It's all one big blob of greed - on the one side, you've got the sellers trying to make a big profit and on the other side you've got buyers so desperate to have a toy that they'll shell out many times what it's actually worth in order to get it.

[Colorscapesart]

I think a lot of valid points have been made.  It's really a supply and demand issue that extends way beyond MH.  I don't "villanize" any group, *shrug* they have their reasons.  Collectors are great because in my mind they preserve the "history" of a thing (pictures and information).  Children are great because they enjoy the toys that were created for them.  (Admittedly, most of us seem to do that too!)  Scalpers are great because they take HTF items and at least make it possible to get!  Yes, you will pay a ridiculous price at times (because you choose to) but because of them, you can go to eBay, plunk down the cash, and snag that really HTF doll your heart longs for.  Especially with Mattel's spotty distribution there is no guarantee the doll would even be available where you live.  And if they priced the item at retail it would be gone in a flash. 

So that's my hopefully positive spin on a tricky situation.  At the end of the day, it's all about people wanting things that other people/stores have.

[lolaandbean]

The argument of it's the toy companies fault too is a good one. I just don't understand it. Why short? Obvioulsy they'd sell more dolls if they made more dolls. If people are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for a toy on Ebay it's less money they make. Plus all the people who can't afford or won't pay scalper prices. My friend is looking for a toy. She can't afford scalper prices. If they were avaliable in the store that's $35 more in the toy company's pocket. Instead of an extra $100ish in a scalpers pocket.

[hannaliten]

We'd buy them, and sell them for either their original price or more for funds for other dolls/things we want.

This ^^

I recently sold a Jinafire and a Skelita. I started them at cost plus shipping and they ended up selling for ridiculous amounts. That money paid for the entire Scaris line for my own kid for Christmas. Plus, I sold them overseas, so it also enabled some kid there to get the 2 new characters for Christmas even though they haven't been released there. I see it as a win-win, even though the parent paid some crazy amount for them, but that's not my fault.

Then I picked up 3 Skelitas and sold at cost to fellow arena members

[pukunui]

If people are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for a toy on Ebay it's less money they make ... If they were avaliable in the store that's $35 more in the toy company's pocket. Instead of an extra $100ish in a scalpers pocket.

I've never really understood this argument. The toy companies don't get paid each time we buy one of their products from a store. The store buys a whole bulk load of product from the company, so when we go to buy something from the store, the company that made it has already been paid for it. This is a big reason why Mattel et al don't care who buys their stuff - whether it's a parent, a collector or a scalper doesn't matter to them because the store already paid them for it.

It's entirely possible that they aren't just making more because the toy stores aren't wanting to buy more. It's also possible that the store buyers are asking for fewer boy dolls. That was the theory as to why Princess Celestia ended up pink in toy form - the store buyers said they'd buy more units if the toy was pink rather than white.

So while I agree that distribution and availability could be a lot better, I'm not sure how much of that should be laid at Mattel's feet. It could be more of an issue to do with the big stores that carry the dolls not ordering enough or whatever.

[aellos]

I slightly understand the scalper thing. But I agree. If you're REALLY trying to make money for good reasons you wouldn't clear out the store. You wouldn't clear out the stock. I wouldn't judge so hard if maybe they grabbed a few and then did it. But these guys clear out the stock and then screw it up for other parents out there. DX

Besides...I have a feeling that if they had the money to buy all these dolls to sell, they'd have the money to buy their children toys instead. Instead of gambling to see if people would actually buy their stock or not.

Collectors are better by far. I can see the argument against them a bit. Because we're taking toys away from children...but I say FOO to that. Because I donate toys.

[MacabreDarling]

Honestly? I think people have let the line between their own wants, and business blur here. If you are running a business, you don't concern yourself with the complaints of the population who isn't purchasing your products or services, when you have a clientel who constantly IS happy to pay your prices, even if they are inflated. The whole point of most businesses is to make money, and provide for your family, and if someone is reselling toys and making their living on ebay, then of course this is going to be what they do. Why? Because people will pay the prices without blinking. If people didn't pay the inflated prices then they would move on to something else to sell, but we do, so they don't. It's easy money. Who can blame them for that? I myself often buy rare dolls for resell purposes, as customs and reselling are half my income right now. I start the doll auctions at fifteen to twenty above what I paid [as I drive a hundred miles round trip and take most a day to get them], and put a buy it now on them of about thirty or forty more than their original price. That allows people to bid on them for a fair price, or if they want to pay the inflated price, more power to them. It means my bills get paid quicker. I guess that sounds callous, but I feel like we forget that to people that aren't collectors, it's just another item to sell to provide for themselves. Wanting money isn't greedy, no one would be saying that if it were a different form of business that they were making all this money from would they? For god sake so many of us struggle to barely get by in this country today, how could we call anyone greedy for actually making money? Sure, it bums me out when I have to wait for months on end to get a doll I want. But I don't buy it on ebay. I wait until I can find it elsewhere. It sucks, some times, but I don't blame them. I'm actually a little envious some times, that they have the funds to purchase that many dolls in the first place, when I couldn't even if I wanted to. Lol. I don't know. I honestly don't think that a limit on the dolls per purchase would be a terribly idea....Unless you are a collector who finds like seven dolls you want at once and can't get them all because of that limit, then I think people would be unhappy again. Besides that, you can't limit one item of sale, and allow people to purchase as many as they want of other items. It just isn't right. If you have the money, you should be able to purchase whatever you want. That includes scalpers, not just us. What you do with it after you purchase it, well...That's up to the individual too, you know?

[Kobold]

How is this even an arguement? Where a collector takes maybe one doll per character for their own personal enjoyment, a scalper clears the shelves and commands a monopoly over the dolls for everyone.

What the stores don't seem to realize is that scalping may, indeed, hurt their profit margins. Customers only have a limited amount of income; whether someone clears out their inventory to resell or not, popular hot-ticket items are going to sell out regardless. But if someone buys a doll for $70 from a scalper, that's an extra $40 or so they AREN'T using to purchase other things from the store (other toys, candy, stocking stuffers, etc).

So, in the end, Little Suzey only gets one Toralei for Christmas, instead of her AND a Lalaloopsy AND a Hershey bar AND a Monopoly board game. :T

I think you have a really good point there.

What's more, a lot of stores already puts a limit to the number of items you can buy during certain promotions, be they toasters or bags of chips. Why not limit very hot toys to 2 of each?      It's not like there are scalpers for chips, so the stores do it to keep customers happy... how about keeping parents from a lot panic and distress during holiday shopping? (yeah I know it wouldn't magically solve the problem but it couldn't hurt either)

[saply]

Ok, so, what's the definition of "collector" here? Because I open and play with my dolls as much as any child would, and resent the implication that I'm somehow a bad person for buying something I legitimately enjoy instead of saving it for the kids.

[Blitzn]

The bottom line, scalpers clear the shelves of the hot items. Leaving a bunch of clawdeens so that the store does not re-stock.  So it makes it incredibly frustrating to find the dolls I keep going out to look for.  If people weren't so frustrated, scalpers wouldn't be such a big deal.  I think when people scalp too long they get sort of warped, too (like some of those pony flippers LOL). Or like how the paparazzi will do anything crazy rude just for a buck.

Why they need the money behind it is a moot point.  It is benefiting themselves at the expense of others. Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids. 

[hannaliten]

Like look at the guy filling several carts of the Black Friday MH; he's being incredibly selfish, even if it's just to buy presents for his own kids. What about everyone else's kids. 

What obligation does this guy have towards other people's kids? The dolls are there for anyone to buy. If he's taking the time to wait in line like everyone else, it's his right to buy whatever he wants. What he does with them is really none of anyone's business.