How come no one hates Snails?

[Snapdragon]

Some people just need to find things to be angry about. I think people just need to chill.

Could not agree more. It's just a cartoon, people.

Post Merge: January 24, 2012, 12:38:35 PM

Haha, well, I think that anyone who is offended by any of these characters is taking the show a little too seriously...

This is all.

Also this.

While i can't say i'm "offended".  Do you guys really need to give these sneaky stabs at people who don't feel the same way as you guys do? I don't think it's that hard to understand both views...

But, Malicieuse! You are being OVER SENSITIVE! Everyone knows that in real life, people are NEVER mocked for being mentally disabled, and no one has EVER called a mentally disabled person ':muffin: Pony' to their face or behind their back in a mocking manner! Really, you should stop worrying about these imaginary issues and focus on what's important - protecting our Sacred Right to Ableism!

Sigh. And here I was thinking that it was just Bronies who had the 'ponies can do no wrong PONIES ARE PERFECT' issue. 9_9 My bad, my bad. Honestly, FiM has had some issues before this, too - the Over a Barrel issue, the fact that Zecora is the only zebra and she speaks with an accent and has magical powers that no one understands - does it mean we aren't allowed to be upset, because it's 'just a cartoon'? News flash: cartoons impact the people who watch them, in REAL LIFE.

If some kid who is mentally disabled watches the show, and hears the dopey-pony being called ':muffin: Pony,' don't you think that will hurt them? The word ':muffin: Pony' does not exist in a vacuum - people are being mocked with that word, even today. It would be like if her name was a racial slur; just because your privileged self doesn't think that it's offensive, that's probably because you've had no experience with it. It seems incredibly insensitive to the people who ARE upset to try to deny them their right to protest the thing that upsets them.

[banditpony]

*raises hand* I hate Snails and Snips.
     haha but it's my opinion tho'  and I don't ever care to justify my thoughts online about it.


Also, that's some really cool info SuniMoon.

[Mermaid]

I think the people who are saying "Don't take it so seriously" need to realize that this show is not targeted at them. It's targeted for small children. I think we all need to remember who it's made for.

I think it is awesome that the creators are catering to their fan base as well, but I think it was a silly decision to name and portray a character so.

Prime example, my 6 year old niece after watching the episode turned and asked what a " Pony" was. This is not something that I wanted to expose her to.

[kmlv23]

Look I give up. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was attempting to merely voice my opinion the same way everyone else was. sorry.

[babymoondust]

If some kid who is mentally disabled watches the show, and hears the dopey-pony being called ':muffin: Pony,' don't you think that will hurt them? The word ':muffin: Pony' does not exist in a vacuum - people are being mocked with that word, even today. It would be like if her name was a racial slur; just because your privileged self doesn't think that it's offensive, that's probably because you've had no experience with it.

At this point, we have had those who work with disabled people as well as people with similar impairments themselves, proclaim not only a lack of offence taken, but an actual fondness for Pony.
When someone comes on who says they have actually been bullied or teased as a result of this character, or witnessed an account of a child being bullied as a result of this character, it would at least give the criticisms some semblance of a purpose. But to my knowledge, the only people who are saying they're offended, are the people who have no absolutely affiliation with the people who have the traits they're affiliating Pony with, or the consequences they're linking as a result of the character.

As deeply saddening as it is, for as long as humanity exists, there will likely always be bullies and people who tease for the sake of teasing. Getting rid of Pony isn't going to change that. Banning any or even ALL aspects of entertainment that center around "different" characters is not going to change that. It's just going to mean that everybody will be fearful of creating anything that isn't strictly PC, which has already resulted in a great many of great shows being policed, and the quality of much entertainment going down-hill.

If kids weren't going around calling one another " Pony", it would just be something else. As I've said before, it's the reasons children take to bullying and teasing in the first place that requires focus, because... well, it's the root of the problem!
This, however is like the white guy who says he is offended, when the black guy gets a joke thrown at him in humor - when the black guy himself was not at all offended, and actually took the joke in good humor. I see this as offence for offences sake.

It seems incredibly insensitive to the people who ARE upset to try to deny them their right to protest the thing that upsets them.

I believe this is an over-reaction. The last I checked, nobody was trying to "deny" anybody the right to anything?

[Snapdragon]

At this point, we have had those who work with disabled people as well as people with similar impairments themselves, proclaim not only a lack of offence taken, but an actual fondness for Pony.
When someone comes on who says they have actually been bullied or teased as a result of this character, or witnessed an account of a child being bullied as a result of this character, it would at least give the criticisms some semblance of a purpose. But to my knowledge, the only people who are saying they're offended, are the people who have no absolutely affiliation with the people who have the traits they're affiliating Pony with, or the consequences they're linking as a result of the character.

In other sites, I have heard accounts from multiple people with disabilities who are greatly upset by this portrayal of Pony. I am not trying to silence disabled people - if they feel that this isn't insulting to them, then that is absolutely their choice. But one disabled person =/= all disabled people. And I am saying that I have seen in other communities, much smaller communities than this one, already a handful of people who are not only upset about this portrayal, but are disabled as well.

As deeply saddening as it is, for as long as humanity exists, there will likely always be bullies and people who tease for the sake of teasing. Getting rid of Pony isn't going to change that. Banning any or even ALL aspects of entertainment that center around "different" characters is not going to change that. It's just going to mean that everybody will be fearful of creating anything that isn't strictly PC, which has already resulted in a great many of great shows being policed, and the quality of much entertainment going down-hill.

The problem is, MLP could be a great agent for change - the problem isn't that she's a clumsy, 'dopey' pony, but that the name they chose for her is essentially a slur. If they want to make a character who is mentally disabled, they can feel free to do that, but it should be a sensitive, non-stereotypical portrayal. This isn't 'deep cinema,' it's a kids' show; they need to be more mindful of their audience. (Not to say that disabled adults don't count as well, of course. I'm saying that adults can recognize when ableism occurs, but kids often cannot.)

If kids weren't going around calling one another " Pony", it would just be something else. As I've said before, it's the reasons children take to bullying and teasing in the first place that requires focus, because... well, it's the root of the problem!
This, however is like the white guy who says he is offended, when the black guy gets a joke thrown at him in humor - when the black guy himself was not at all offended, and actually took the joke in good humor. I see this as offence for offences sake.

So ... racist jokes are okay, then, if one black guy says they're funny? Mmmhmm. :Ia

I see this issue as one that is not 'offense for offense's sake,' but 'people who are uncomfortable with stereotypes and slurs being thrown around in children's programming.' If a ton of disabled people showed up and said, "No, we're okay with this, you need to stand down," then I'd respect their wishes. But as it stands, some disabled people are saying they aren't okay with it, because it offends them. So I feel like - If I'm sensing that this is uncomfortable and not-okay, and other people who have to deal with this issue are agreeing with me, then I feel like I have a pretty legitimate reason to be uncomfortable with this thing. It doesn't mean other disabled people can't be comfortable with it, of course.

I believe this is an over-reaction. The last I checked, nobody was trying to "deny" anybody the right to anything?

Well, if you go through a thread and dismiss every other opinion that is opposite to yours with "these people need to get a life" and "calm down, it's just a cartoon," it can seem very dismissive and rude. They are not denying anyone rights (since they can't stop people from posting, after all), but it does feel like they are attempting to 'shut down' the conversation and insult/shame others into not responding. So 'deny' would be the wrong word, I think, you are right there.

[Vintergatan]

Look I give up. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was attempting to merely voice my opinion the same way everyone else was. sorry.

you shouldn't take our responses personally! They are directed to everyone here who is saying we´re overreacting ^^ not just you

But I must agree with Snapdragon. It might not be people's intention to dismiss our concerns, but that's exactly how it feels to me with all those "relax" posts.

I also wanted to add that I personally don't see anything *wrong* with being overly sensitive to these issues. It's not like most people can choose if they are going to be sensitive to something or not (I know I can't).


and I also agree with the point Mermaid made. I mean, if someone is complaining that South Park is being insensitive, that's where I go "well that's your problem, just don't watch it". That's because that show is aimed at older audience who can decide very well if they are insulted or not. FiM on the other hand is targeted at kids and while i´m against treating kids as, erm, dumber version of adults, there is still a level of innocence (if you will) expected of such a show. I would love to see a cartoon that would introduce a special needs character in such a way that promotes acceptance but it just seems that Pony isn't headed that way.

[MintySocks]

YOU PONIES ARE AWESOME!!!

I wanted to just pause here for a moment and tell you all that I am learning so much more about this issue by listening to all these opinions. I originally asked the question because I wanted to focus more on Snips and Snails and not launch into another Pony thread, but I think this conversation has taken a good turn, and here's why: 

I've come to the opinion that ignorance about these verbal slurs CAN be almost as bad as using them. When I came to this conversation I had no idea what the term " Pony" even meant.  I had no idea that there are many disabled people who are offended by it. I don't watch South Park or Simpsons or any of that, so I have no background except what I've learned here. I shudder to think that I could have seen "The Last Roundup" and been so amused by the character that I actually (with no harm intended) called someone that or described someone that way. God forbid my kids ever took that word to school and used it on someone without realizing its meaning. It could have been so damaging, not for sure, but potentially.

I am guilty of being in the "chill out, it's just a cartoon" crowd, but that was before I understood the meaning of it all.  I might add that in case others are as clueless as I was, I intend to extend a little grace to them before jumping all over their cases and saying "Hey you insensitive dope, you're offending people!" This is a great example of how being open to the opinions/objections of others can change a mind for the better.

*huggles to everybody who has expressed their thoughts!*

[DazzleKitty]

Like others said, I think people always look for things to be angry about.

I thought Snips and Snails were hysterical...especially the taller one (Snails). Some of his lines.....LMAO!!

I haven't seen the Pony episode yet but I fear they are gonna try too hard to cater to bronies. The bad side of the brony fandom has kinda made me get a bad perception of the whole....I need to get over that.

I'm still watching the first season and I am finding that I enjoyed the earlier episodes better. I just hope they don't ruin the show. :/

Not trying to be partial to one side of the fandom. I think FiM is one of the best MLP shows of all time (almost better than Tales which I adore). But I feel alienated from my own fandom due to bronies. Weird, I know.

[hlbmlp]

But I feel alienated from my own fandom due to bronies.

I agree with this statement.  It is peculiar having the same guys that teased me in elementary school loving ponies now.  I believe that these guys never did grow up and have the same bad habit of making fun of anything different.  That is why i dont think they should have ever called her Pony.  If that term was around back then they would have called me and many other kids that and i don't think its right.  I also do not think it is appropriate for any little kid.  I mean we cant keep them in the dark forever, but alot of these kids go through enough as it is!  My mom works as a nurse for a center city school and it makes me cry some of the things that happen to these poor kids because of reckless and irresponsible adults.  To these kids FiM offers a haven.  A place to be happy and seclude themselves from the horrible things happening to and around them.  To have something like this in a kids show is not right.  If they have parents like the one's im talking about there will be no one to tell them what Pony is, what is wrong and how to act around people like that.  They probably will end up using the term, not knowing what it is, and hurting another kid.  Kids are cruel, but they only get that way from all the cruel things around them.

[Taxel]

But it was a few minutes of cameo and didnt even have any real importance to the main plot, apart from destroying town hall, leading to the Mayor needing money to fix it.

Uh that was the ENTIRE point of the episode. The town hall was broken so the mayor (and maybe others, honestly I stopped paying close attention after Pony appeared) wanted Applejack to win so she could get the money to fix it.

[kmlv23]

But it was a few minutes of cameo and didnt even have any real importance to the main plot, apart from destroying town hall, leading to the Mayor needing money to fix it.

Uh that was the ENTIRE point of the episode. The town hall was broken so the mayor (and maybe others, honestly I stopped paying close attention after Pony appeared) wanted Applejack to win so she could get the money to fix it.

My point was the Pony herself only ahows up for about 5 minutes and provides a plot point, but Nevermind. As previously stated, I give up.

[PinkRosedust]

I hate Snails lol. And Snips. Though I just hate them because they're completely unfunny to me. I don't see them as being offensive - I see them as being sort of similar to Patrick from Spongebob (I see he's come up more than once in this discussion lol). They're dumb, but they're that same kind of dumb that you see in a lot of cartoons.

I finally got around to watching the latest episode today. I was highly disappointed that they A) called her Pony (I was so hoping they'd use Ditzy Doo - much cuter and not offensive IMO) and B) gave her that voice (I was hoping she'd have a softer, sweeter voice..) I agree that they took it too far and catered too much to certain fans. The kind of 'dumb' they've made her is more klutzy, which, by itself (and with her eyes - which I personally found endearing) would have been fine. Even if they intended to make her somewhat mentally handicapped - that would have been kind of neat, actually. But I think they've made her into a huge stereotype that we're all supposed to laugh at. That, to me, is a shame. I don't think it was necessary for MLP. I'm not horribly offended by it, but I already feel like the character has kind of been soiled for me. :/ Bah.

[Bellevi]

I'm not a fan of Snips and Snails because in general, I'm not a fan of children's cartoons characters who are so dumb, that their behaviors could allude to mental retardation, but the mental condition is never addressed and only played up for laughs.

I think that the decision to make the name Pony canon was taking things a bit too far. They could keep the voice because I don't think that shows are going to stop using voices that could allude to mental retardation for dumb characters but deciding to use the name is questionable.

[will2Bfree]

First of all, let me say I only skimmed this thread. So I'm sorry if some of what I post has already been covered or doesn't completely fit in with where the current conversation is.

I wasn't aware there was any controversy with Pony's name other than some people like to call her Pony Hooves and to others she's Ditzy Doo. Personally, I like the name Pony better. As far as my vocabulary is concerned, "der" is the same as "duh" and Pony, ditzy, and dopey are all practically synonyms. Of course, they're all a little negative, but I don't find them offensive unless they're specifically said to be offensive. Usually people just mean it in a cute and affectionate way, and that's how I've always taken her name. I think there may have been a little misunderstanding. Most bronies LOVE Pony, they're not making fun of her or trying to be mean. They really like her. Almost the whole Brony fandom I've encountered has a huge soft spot for her. I haven't seen the latest episode, so I'm not sure what this "cameo" involves, but I'd find it pretty hard to believe the other ponies are unaccepting or mean to her. Therefore, I'm not completely sure where you all think this negative role model behavior that's going to rub off on your kids is coming from.

My mother was a special ed teacher and I grew up with several mentally handicapped friends, some of whom I'm still in touch with. I've never heard anyone call a mentally disabled person Pony; a forgetful person, maybe, but not disabled. Next time I talk to my friends I'll have to ask if they're offended by it or have ever even heard it to mean that. From what people have said, I assume the name " Pony" has actually been used in the cartoon now? I find it hard to believe the writers and the people who approve such things, would use that name if they really thought it was a synonym for "retard". I don't think it's any different than calling her silly. It could just be a regional thing too. Maybe it does mean something different in another part of the country (or other countries all together). Perhaps, the word simply has more than one meaning. Similar meanings, but worlds apart in terms of severity. In which case, nobody's doing anyone any favors by bringing the bad definition up again and again. Let it die out. Obviously quite a number of people have never even heard it before. Language changes through people. If you keep bringing it up, and you insist it means what you say it means, then congratulations on teaching so many people a new slur. However, MLP is giving you a chance to cut that bad definition off at the knees with a whole generation of young girls.

In any case, it strikes me as kind of a "A rose by any other name..." situation. That which we call a Pony Hooves by any other name would still be a silly, clumsy pony. hehe Can you believe I've never even thought of her as possibly being mentally handicapped? I always just thought she was a klutz who needed to focus more on what she was doing. Maybe a daydreamer. I kind of agree with what someone else said. There are tons of stupid-acting boys in cartoons, but no one jumps to their defense claiming they could have a learning disability. They're just thought of as stupid. So I assume the only real problem is her name... not the way she acts...because that would be kind of sexist.