I feel like they're similar to MLP fakies that are made from the same mold as real ponies but on a larger scale.I've usually felt similar to that too, I mean yeah I will almost always prefer an MLP over a fakie but there are the occasional fakies I've liked. Though I don't know that I will seek out recasted dolls, my life will not end if one ends up making its way into my family.
That's where I am right now, too.I feel like they're similar to MLP fakies that are made from the same mold as real ponies but on a larger scale.I've usually felt similar to that too, I mean yeah I will almost always prefer an MLP over a fakie but there are the occasional fakies I've liked. Though I don't know that I will seek out recasted dolls, my life will not end if one ends up making its way into my family.
**However, as this subject has a history of turning ugly this post serves as a warning.**
I think that the biggest problem is when someone recasts dolls and then tries to pass them off as legit. If I bought a doll and she turned out to be a recast, I would be absolutely furious!
Recasts are not currently banned on the Arena, because it didn't seem fair to disallow them while we allow fakies and reproductions of MLP items here. It's something we have discussed quite a few times over the year.
As for my personal opinions on the subject, I just feel like there is a difference between a knockoff pony, which has almost zero effect on a large corporation like Hasbro, and a recast doll. With BJDs, even the large companies are quite small and some of the artist dolls are completely designed and created by one person. So when someone recasts the dolls and sells them cheaper than the artists' originals, it drastically affects their source of income. To me, it's art theft. If I want a doll who is expensive, then I save up for it until I can buy it. I would not ever knowingly buy a recast doll; just for moral reasons.
Recasts make me uncomfortable and I have zero interest in owning one of my own, but I am also not interested in starting a witch hunt against people who do own recast dolls. I don't think that it makes them bad people and it's not really any of my business what you choose to do with their dolls, really. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have to be a jerk about it.
I think that the biggest problem is when someone recasts dolls and then tries to pass them off as legit. If I bought a doll and she turned out to be a recast, I would be absolutely furious!
**However, as this subject has a history of turning ugly this post serves as a warning.**
I had to read this three times before realizing I'm not in trouble. :blush: I didn't realize this was such a heated topic. Sorry!
Recasts are not currently banned on the Arena, because it didn't seem fair to disallow them while we allow fakies and reproductions of MLP items here. It's something we have discussed quite a few times over the year.
As for my personal opinions on the subject, I just feel like there is a difference between a knockoff pony, which has almost zero effect on a large corporation like Hasbro, and a recast doll. With BJDs, even the large companies are quite small and some of the artist dolls are completely designed and created by one person. So when someone recasts the dolls and sells them cheaper than the artists' originals, it drastically affects their source of income. To me, it's art theft. If I want a doll who is expensive, then I save up for it until I can buy it. I would not ever knowingly buy a recast doll; just for moral reasons.
Recasts make me uncomfortable and I have zero interest in owning one of my own, but I am also not interested in starting a witch hunt against people who do own recast dolls. I don't think that it makes them bad people and it's not really any of my business what you choose to do with their dolls, really. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have to be a jerk about it.
I think that the biggest problem is when someone recasts dolls and then tries to pass them off as legit. If I bought a doll and she turned out to be a recast, I would be absolutely furious!
I see it as art theft as well.
I don't think there should be a witch hunt and agree that aspect gets ridiculous at times, but I will admit it saddens me that the Arena is recast friendly and I hope that changes some day.
Whether or not I ever end up with a recast, like I said, I don't plan on seeking one out, I do hope that this forum never bans recasts from being shown/discussed.
One of the things I love about the arena is that it is full of so many different people who have different views on a lot of things but despite that it is a friendly and welcoming community that allows each of us to explore our love for what are essentially "toys" in our own way and be able to share this love with others without fear of ridicule or hatred.
I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.
I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.
Agreed!
what exactly is the difference between a company doll and an artist doll?
I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.
this is a question for the anti-recaster, and i hope it doesn't come off as rude, but i think this is a legit question.
let's say you know an etsy seller has a recast, but the things they sell are clothes, shoes, wigs and the like, all homemade, would you still avoid buying from them?
I would just like to be aware, as if i decide to make and sell clothes, i'll keep them out of places that people could pm me about it.
i think the only main way people, aside from here, would know is i would probably use my doll to model the clothes for pictures. as that's kinda how its usually done.
A lot of BJD people are absolute snobs. Or at least come off that way.
I just don't think it's right, but I don't think it's right to completely ostracize someone for accidentally owning a recast.i'm sorry, i'm not attacking, i'm just trying to understand.
meh. it's beyond hurt feelings. so don't worry about that.
just good to know. guess you wouldn't buy anything from me again as well. not taking it a personal affront, but i would like to know. i probably won't post things for sale in the forum anymore, if i have to worry about it.
I'm sorry for having 100 questions going at once in this thread, but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this one. If stealing is wrong, it's wrong. It shoudn't matter if you steal from a big company or a small artist, right? Saying fakies from stolen Hasboro molds are okay and re-casts are not is like saying it's cool to steal stuff from Wal-Mart but not from your grandmother. I don't understand the thought process behind one being okay and not the other. To me either both are okay or neither is, if the bottom line is that both are theft.
I'm sorry for having 100 questions going at once in this thread, but I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this one. If stealing is wrong, it's wrong. It shoudn't matter if you steal from a big company or a small artist, right? Saying fakies from stolen Hasboro molds are okay and re-casts are not is like saying it's cool to steal stuff from Wal-Mart but not from your grandmother. I don't understand the thought process behind one being okay and not the other. To me either both are okay or neither is, if the bottom line is that both are theft.
I *think* with fakie MLPs the law states that if the company changes the toy by a certain percent (like 10 percent different) then it's not stealing.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong!!!
In the case of recasts, they are trying to look 100% the same. They want to replicate the original as closely as possible. It's like getting a "Folex" (Fake Rolex) watch. The quality is not the same, and it hurts the real brand's reputation. At least, this is my opinion on it.
I just don't think it's right, but I don't think it's right to completely ostracize someone for accidentally owning a recast.i'm sorry, i'm not attacking, i'm just trying to understand.
it is ok to ostracize someone who knowing owns a recast?
this is why i suddenly feel like a leper. i've own the one girl for about a month, and now i've been labeled into a group.it honestly makes me want to drop the arena altogether, but i love the community here. but i think. ok. people who are anti-recasts will see me in other threads and still be silently judging me for my decisions. i just don't understand. there are people that post things i morally disagree with, but it's not my place to tell them or whatnot.Spoilerand well, when i finally got the other doll that i thought was legit it had no paperwork so he probably isn't but i don't care, cuz i think he's perfect and would have paid what i paid for him recast or not. i was afraid to say anything because of these kinds of reactions. do i feel i was cheated. yeah at first, but it was a lesson learned and its not something i can change now, so i'm moving on from it. i'm honestly more concerned about the exile than anything.
I don't shop from chains well known for ripping off people's art. Like Hot Topic, like Forever 22. I don't ever shop with brands who steal cultural, ethnic or other such designs and call it Haute Couture.
thanks for clarifying.
I don't know what you read wrong there. I thought it was quite clear. I said I don't think it's okay to ostracize someone for owning a recast. Period. Basically saying, I don't think it's okay to be mean to someone for owning one. But that doesn't mean I'm going to spend my money with someone who purposely makes recasts. Or purposely buys them. It's not be mean, it's just my choice. I understand situations where an oopsy happens. I have friends in other doll companies who have bought a doll sold to them as legit and it be a recast. Whether it is BJD or Bisque. It happens. But I have a lot of friends who make dolls as their job, too, and I know the fear they suffer that their work could be directly impacted because someone purposely recasted a doll they made. It's not anything made at you personally, or anyone for that matter. I mean, I don't even buy BJD, but if I were, I would not be buying BJD related goods from someone who owned recasts. Not to be mean to them, but I'd rather spend my money with someone either directly making original dolls or supporting original doll makers. It's just a choice, it's not a witch hunt.
I just don't think it's right, but I don't think it's right to completely ostracize someone for accidentally owning a recast.i'm sorry, i'm not attacking, i'm just trying to understand.
it is ok to ostracize someone who knowing owns a recast?
this is why i suddenly feel like a leper. i've own the one girl for about a month, and now i've been labeled into a group.it honestly makes me want to drop the arena altogether, but i love the community here. but i think. ok. people who are anti-recasts will see me in other threads and still be silently judging me for my decisions. i just don't understand. there are people that post things i morally disagree with, but it's not my place to tell them or whatnot.Spoilerand well, when i finally got the other doll that i thought was legit it had no paperwork so he probably isn't but i don't care, cuz i think he's perfect and would have paid what i paid for him recast or not. i was afraid to say anything because of these kinds of reactions. do i feel i was cheated. yeah at first, but it was a lesson learned and its not something i can change now, so i'm moving on from it. i'm honestly more concerned about the exile than anything.
So I went to an artist friend of mine and had him recast it. He rook my broken one, made a mold, poured it in resin, fixed the fractures and walla! I have a new crown in Clear Resin for only $50.
Aw I don't think anyone meant YOU were being a snob, Galactica. When I agreed with that I meant the bjd community in general and how it seems pretty common to be a little GOTTA ONE UP EVERYONE~ about things there. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone, but it does exist a lot. It's in a lot of collectible communities really.
and well, when i finally got the other doll that i thought was legit it had no paperwork so he probably isn't but i don't care, cuz i think he's perfect and would have paid what i paid for him recast or not. i was afraid to say anything because of these kinds of reactions. do i feel i was cheated. yeah at first, but it was a lesson learned and its not something i can change now, so i'm moving on from it. i'm honestly more concerned about the exile than anything.
My personal thought process with the buying from people with re-casts...idk...I think if they were selling them as legit dolls and lying to people it would make sense to not trust them and not want to buy anything from them as they would have proven themselves dishonest as sellers. To not buy clothes or something from somebody because they OWN recasts? For me that seems like overkill. Everyone has their own opinion, though, and nobody really has the right to tell someone that their feelings are invalid. At the end of the day we all are just people who love dolls and I think that's the important thing. They make us happy, so I think trying to keep the fandom welcoming and positive while striving to inform people of the negative side of these copied dolls is the way to keep from alienating.
I saw someone on tumblr the other night say some HORRIBLE things about people who own recasts. Borderline threats of bodily harm. I think that is absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable.
My personal thought process with the buying from people with re-casts...idk...I think if they were selling them as legit dolls and lying to people it would make sense to not trust them and not want to buy anything from them as they would have proven themselves dishonest as sellers. To not buy clothes or something from somebody because they OWN recasts? For me that seems like overkill. Everyone has their own opinion, though, and nobody really has the right to tell someone that their feelings are invalid. At the end of the day we all are just people who love dolls and I think that's the important thing. They make us happy, so I think trying to keep the fandom welcoming and positive while striving to inform people of the negative side of these copied dolls is the way to keep from alienating.
I saw someone on tumblr the other night say some HORRIBLE things about people who own recasts. Borderline threats of bodily harm. I think that is absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable.
If you're on Tumblr, I'm surprised you haven't stumbled upon the recast minefield earlier. :blink:
BOTH sides get disgustingly nasty with each other in ways I haven't even seen on much more "hateful" websites. It's almost impressive. In a disturbing sort of way.
My personal thought process with the buying from people with re-casts...idk...I think if they were selling them as legit dolls and lying to people it would make sense to not trust them and not want to buy anything from them as they would have proven themselves dishonest as sellers. To not buy clothes or something from somebody because they OWN recasts? For me that seems like overkill. Everyone has their own opinion, though, and nobody really has the right to tell someone that their feelings are invalid. At the end of the day we all are just people who love dolls and I think that's the important thing. They make us happy, so I think trying to keep the fandom welcoming and positive while striving to inform people of the negative side of these copied dolls is the way to keep from alienating.
I saw someone on tumblr the other night say some HORRIBLE things about people who own recasts. Borderline threats of bodily harm. I think that is absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable.
If you're on Tumblr, I'm surprised you haven't stumbled upon the recast minefield earlier. :blink:
BOTH sides get disgustingly nasty with each other in ways I haven't even seen on much more "hateful" websites. It's almost impressive. In a disturbing sort of way.
I actually have not been into bjd for over 10 years until like a week ago when I pulled my doll out of storage. I was on DoA all the time in those days and didn't know about re-casts. I'm sure they're not new, but they are new to me. I was on tumblr for steven universe until I followed doll blogs the other night.
this is a hope another legit question. for those that are anti recast and feel very strongly about it.. i understand not buying from me or others that own at all(dolls, ponies, etc). but would you allow me to buy non doll things from you? like ponies? i know it may seem petty, but it's a concern. if you have a pony for sale i've been hunting for, i don't want to offer, of course, if i know i'm going to turned down because our morals don't align. i don't begrudge you for your decision. it's your choice, i just don't want to make it awkward for anyone in the future.
Too bad so much drama about recasts tho. I can think of a reason where it would be beneficial. Recasts would make great clothing dummies. Like if a doll clothes maker isn't too crazy about a BJD with odd size measurements but wants to make clothes that fit the odd sized doll as well they are stuck buying a doll they don't like.I thought about this too while reading through this thread. what if someone who makes clothes for BJD wanted to offer several size options and needed different-sized dolls for measuring and modeling purposes? buying several legit dolls just because of this would be a financial disaster most likely. measurements can of course be requested from other owners, but clothes (not only in dolly size btw) usually sell better when they are modeled on actual dolls, not just pictured laying flat.
I thought about this too while reading through this thread. what if someone who makes clothes for BJD wanted to offer several size options and needed different-sized dolls for measuring and modeling purposes? buying several legit dolls just because of this would be a financial disaster most likely. measurements can of course be requested from other owners, but clothes (not only in dolly size btw) usually sell better when they are modeled on actual dolls, not just pictured laying flat.
oh, that sounds great! thank you for your reply! :) I don't really know much about how much do recasts go for, and how their price compares to either their originals or to other originals of the same size, so if there are original dollies out there you can get for or close to the price of a recast that is similar-sized, than my question is no longer valid :) I was assuming that recasts are way cheaper, so this option didn't even come to mind.I thought about this too while reading through this thread. what if someone who makes clothes for BJD wanted to offer several size options and needed different-sized dolls for measuring and modeling purposes? buying several legit dolls just because of this would be a financial disaster most likely. measurements can of course be requested from other owners, but clothes (not only in dolly size btw) usually sell better when they are modeled on actual dolls, not just pictured laying flat.
The flip side of this is that there are a fair number of lower-cost legit BJDs out there that are similarly sized to the higher-end ones, so if someone is just looking for a doll as a clothing model, why wouldn't they just buy one/some of those? That way they don't need to make a huge financial investment and they're still supporting the artists who created the dolls - seems like a win/win situation.
oh, that sounds great! thank you for your reply! :) I don't really know much about how much do recasts go for, and how their price compares to either their originals or to other originals of the same size, so if there are original dollies out there you can get for or close to the price of a recast that is similar-sized, than my question is no longer valid :) I was assuming that recasts are way cheaper, so this option didn't even come to mind.
Yup. And companies like Mirodoll and Fantasy Doll/Angel Street can be even cheaper when they're having sales, so those are more legit companies whose dolls can be cheaper than recasts.oh, that sounds great! thank you for your reply! :) I don't really know much about how much do recasts go for, and how their price compares to either their originals or to other originals of the same size, so if there are original dollies out there you can get for or close to the price of a recast that is similar-sized, than my question is no longer valid :) I was assuming that recasts are way cheaper, so this option didn't even come to mind.
IIRC while recasts are cheaper than the dolls they're ripping off, they're not the cheapest dolls available - looking at almost-definitely-not-legit sites, recast Minifees are $120-140. Resinsoul's MSDs (same size as a minifee) are $126-$150, and I know they're not the only lower-cost BJD company. Of course they're not the same doll, but both are classified as "slim MSD," so they should fit similar clothes, I think?
Phynx I think you were treated very poorly and I'm sorry your doll group did that to you. I do think that the recast witch hunt phenomena that happens can be extreme and ridiculous. I think it is particularly bad when doll groups fling unbased accusations at innocent parties.
But... I do understand the idea behind not allowing in a social group (ie DOA which is so huge) people to openly own, sell, share photos of, recast dolls. Doing those things SUPPORTS recasters because it implies that having recast dolls is okay.
I know there are lots of people that just don't get why having a recast art doll hurts both the artist and the hobby while supporting an art thief. But maybe those people might STILL hesitate before buying a recast doll (or before buying a doll that they do not know one way or the other if it is legit) if they thought they wouldn't be able to happily or easily share those dolls with their social networking groups. So then the recasters make less money and more people by legit art dolls.
I would compare it to owning a counterfit of a well known and living artist. Regardless of whether you personally enjoy the painting or not, or whether you knew it was counterfit when it was given to you- if you KNEW it was a counterfit, you probably would not want to post photos of it and share it with other art collectors right? At least that's how I see it.
I don't think however that there is ever any call to be nasty to other people.
I don't shop from chains well known for ripping off people's art. Like Hot Topic, like Forever 22. I don't ever shop with brands who steal cultural, ethnic or other such designs and call it Haute Couture.
Wait. Did we just compare Nazi relics with recasts? Knock off dolls to an organization that murdered millions of people?
I'm sorry gals, I'm done. They're toys, expensive plastic toys.