How do you feel about re-casts? (BJD)

[kCherry]

**However, as this subject has a history of turning ugly this post serves as a warning.**

I had to read this three times before realizing I'm not in trouble.  I didn't realize this was such a heated topic. Sorry!

   No worries, Hun! How else would anyone know about the subject if no one ever posted on it? It's an educating topic encompassing dolls that people honestly love, both legit and recast alike. And where there is love, there is passion. And where there is passion there is quite often heat. We just don't want any fires! LOL

[rosierjay]

i don't mind recast personally. and will probably order one in the future as the darker skin tones aren't always available in the models i like.

i'll admit that i'm afraid to talk about recast at all with most doll collectors, as i don't want to be "run out of town". i know not everyone has this attitude, but i also don't want to cause trouble or stir up emotions when unnecessary.  i currently have one, and i love her to pieces. i did join another forum group that focus' on recast so i feel more comfortable talking about bjds there. they have non recasts as well. and once you get to the sales part, if you don't specify if it's a recast or not the posts are locked or deleted.

it seems like a safe and friendly environment there. yes. i will show a picture of my recast when she is done, and complete with the outfit i'm making her. but that will probably all i'll post about her in this particular forum. why light matches in a forest right?

i don't have strong opinions for or against them at this point, so i bought one, and will probably buy more in the future.

[ZennaBug]

Recasts are not currently banned on the Arena, because it didn't seem fair to disallow them while we allow fakies and reproductions of MLP items here.  It's something we have discussed quite a few times over the year.

As for my personal opinions on the subject, I just feel like there is a difference between a knockoff pony, which has almost zero effect on a large corporation like Hasbro, and a recast doll.  With BJDs, even the large companies are quite small and some of the artist dolls are completely designed and created by one person.  So when someone recasts the dolls and sells them cheaper than the artists' originals, it drastically affects their source of income.  To me, it's art theft.  If I want a doll who is expensive, then I save up for it until I can buy it.  I would not ever knowingly buy a recast doll; just for moral reasons.

Recasts make me uncomfortable and I have zero interest in owning one of my own, but I am also not interested in starting a witch hunt against people who do own recast dolls.  I don't think that it makes them bad people and it's not really any of my business what you choose to do with their dolls, really.  Just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have to be a jerk about it.

I think that the biggest problem is when someone recasts dolls and then tries to pass them off as legit.  If I bought a doll and she turned out to be a recast, I would be absolutely furious!

I see it as art theft as well.

I don't think there should be a witch hunt and agree that aspect gets ridiculous at times, but I will admit it saddens me that the Arena is recast friendly and I hope that changes some day.

Whether or not I ever end up with a recast, like I said, I don't plan on seeking one out, I do hope that this forum never bans recasts from being shown/discussed.
One of the things I love about the arena is that it is full of so many different people who have different views on a lot of things but despite that it is a friendly and welcoming community that allows each of us to explore our love for what are essentially "toys" in our own way and be able to share this love with others without fear of ridicule or hatred.

This is one of the reasons we don't ban them.  Most doll forums ban recasts, but the Arena has always tried to be a place that welcomes everyone without judgement.  And since we are primarily a MLP forum, we didn't feel like we should take a stand on the topic of recasts and risk alienating some of our members, regardless of our personal feelings on the matter.  Plus, if we started banning recast dolls, then we would have to rethink our policies on fakies and resin-cast ponies and such.  Since we aren't really a BJD forum, we thought it would be better to remain neutral on the subject. 

[Wardah]

I once considered buying a recast of a famous company doll because I don't agree with some companies charging that much when there are other less popular companies who offer a comparable doll for less but then the recasters started copying artist dolls and I couldn't support them after that.

[rosierjay]

what exactly is the difference between a company doll and an artist doll?

[Aliyahbetd]

I think other people have already said it better than I could. I don't like recasts and would never buy one, but I'm not about to go on some witch hunt on others' choices. Personally I buy straight from the companies or a dealer like MintonCard or Denverdoll so I don't worry about recasts. I like that my purchase supports some great artists! <3 

[Flitter]

I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.

[hannaliten]

I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.

Agreed!

[Noxxbunny]

I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.

Agreed!

Agreed also.

But on a separate note, while I am against recasts, I do still think the witchhunting and the exiling of recast owners on other sites goes too far. I'm not down with the whole "Don't talk to recast owners, don't sell to recast owners(though not selling dolls to them makes sense if the fear is that they're actually a recastER), if you let them come to your meets -you're pro-recast, neutral is the same as pro-recast" thing. And since I've said that, a lot of those places would now also consider me a recast-sympathizer. I just firmly disagree with the mentality of "You must feel fiery hatred or that means you actually like them".

But yeah, in short, I'd never own a recast. But I wouldn't disown a friend if they had one. At least none of my friends are into BJD, so I have no worries there anyway.

[rosierjay]

I understand why people hate recasts and the people who buy them, but i guess for me, there are bigger problems of hate  in the real, than where someone buys something or when, doesnt compute. On the other hand If you have to justify a purchase you probably shouldn't make it. Whether its to yourself or to others. Have i regretted  decisions, had buyer's remorse. Yeah, but make a decision and stand by it or admit you are wrong.

I do stand by my decision and i don't feel i should have to explain why i made it, as others can't change what i did anyway.
Hope that all makes sense.

[Emerald]

I totally understand the anti-recast points made here. I can't believe the level of NOPE that people that own them deal with, however. What if they receive one as a gift and don't even know? They can't re-sell it, because that's seen as wrong, and if they keep it they're shunned too? What are they supposed to do?

[ZennaBug]

Before I moved, I went to local doll meets with semi-regularity.  The Colorado BJD group was really active.  There was someone who had a recast doll in the group and we had to be careful not to have that doll in our photos if we posted them on DoA or other pages or we risked being banned just for being in the same room.  It seemed excessive to me.  It was her first doll and she loved him, even though his quality wasn't nearly as good as the legit version would have been.  All of her later dolls were legit, but she bought him before she knew better and he occupied that very special "first doll" place in her heart.  The fact that her doll had to be excluded from group photos so we wouldn't be banned from doll forums and groups just seemed like bullying, really.  So yeah; I definitely don't agree with the total and complete exclusion of recast owners through dolly land.  I don't like recasts, but I don't think that people who own them should be completely outcast and banned from doll gatherings and such.

As a side note, I think that this is the most civil recast discussion in which I've ever taken part.  Just another reason why I rarely bother posting in other forums.  I can get all of the doll discussion that my heart desires right here without all of the drama.    Love you guys!

**Edit to add:

what exactly is the difference between a company doll and an artist doll?

A company doll would be from a company like Fairyland, Luts, Volks, Soom, etc.  The companies are relatively small, but are still made of a team of artists.  Artist dolls are the dolls that are made by an artist on their own (or sometimes by a couple of people), but not an entire team.  Lilycat, DaisyDayes, and Atelier Momoni spring to mind, but there are tons of others.  Any doll made by an individual artist instead of a company like that would be considered an artist doll.

[Galactica]

I am very anti-recast BJD.
I often see pro-recast people try to equate recast bjd with things like knock off handbags, "fakies", downloading music or watching movies online or prop replicas, (not to mention ridiculous entitled arguments like that they don't make enough $ to afford legit) but to me these things are all so different and can't be judged by the same criteria. It's difficult to argue morality. I've been into bjd nearly 10 years and having seen what it's done to the community and market, I will never support recasters or sympathize with anyone's justification for buying recast bjd.

Agreed- also some people have this argument that sounds a lot like "I got a recast because the doll is so rare, or expensive, or hard to get, the company doesn't make enough, I was on the waiting list too long, ect."  but why do these people think they have a right to an artist made doll?  Nobody is entitled to art, even if you want it really bad or can't afford it.  If a bjd artist wants to make amazing dolls at a rate of 10 per year instead of churning out a mediocre product like Hasbro-  why punish them for that? Aren't they allowed to say how they will make their art and how they will conduct their business?  Do we really want small bjd artists driven out of business or heartbroken?

If anyone doesn't think recasting hurts the artists- try reading how the artist feels when they find out the doll they have spent so much labor, money, love, tears created- recast.  Gutted.  I have read many reactions by BJD "companies" (who are very often just one or two people) when the artist learns their beloved creation has been recast. Never have they had any reaction other than feeling completely betrayed/robbed/violated. 

I do understand the Arena's explanation- it is difficult to articulate why a recast MLP is not any worse than a recast doll.  What is the difference? Volume? Handcrafted or finished? Size?  Well, yes. But if the explanation is too complicated, I personally would rather have an environment that does not encourage or say that it is okay to have a recast art doll than one that supports that practice. But of course, I'm not one of the bosses so my opinion is irrelevant.   
 

[Phynix]

Funny .... not so funny... recast story and my two cents. Warning it is long.

So many years ago for my birthday my husband was on one of the many BJD forums I use to belong to and he was looking around the sales threads for a doll for me. And here he is searching hard not understanding the terms he was reading, calling a dolly friend of mine in the usa and asking her questions, and calling my gf here in the city asking her things as well. He worked hard on this. Took him over a month to look through all the sites and find a doll he knew I wanted and he could afford as a gift.

So here it is a cute little Soom Beyla Girl He knew that Soom start at 500 and just skyrocket from there depending on size and condition. So he knew when he found her for less then $300.00 USD that something must be wrong with her? When the seller said she didn't have fantasy parts just her unicorn head he thought that was why she was so cheap. He missed the information that she is a recast! (the seller had it in the thread he just didn't understand it)

So he bought it, wrapped her up and I have a new doll. I knew right away when he said she was a soom that she was not. Soom resin is textured a bit, it feels like it is dust pitted it takes paint well and it feels really nice. This girl felt like the bobobie resin, too smooth. (yes different resins feel different) any ways I knew right away, so I asked him to show me who he bought it from so I can give them feedback for shipping her right! (I also wanted to report the recast if it was a site where recasts were not allowed) So here it was on a recast friendly forum it was a stated recast! So I gave her feedback that I felt she needed (she came to us as listed and well packaged no faults there GREAT seller actually, she was very helpful to the husband when he emailed her so no fault on her part!)

Any ways I took her and my Soom Ai with me to a meet and people loved them both, they thought I had a cute little gal and no one knew she was a recast! So I put it out there I told them the truth, we also used her as an example that in less you know your colours and pay attention you will never spot a recast in less told! I was honest and told them the story and people started to look at her and me differently. I was honest with it and would never sell her as anything but a recast if I sell her at all she is important to me.

But because I had a known recast someone told DOA and had me kicked out, I was doped from my community and was not allowed to attend events or meets even. People looked at all my other dolls like they are recasts but I own all of there certificates and know where and when I bought each one (I made a spread sheet after I couldn't remember Adrian's age, my first doll)

Any ways people keep telling me I should throw her out, or break her to pieces. I wont she means to much. Has your husband done that much research into a hobbie for you? I know this is the first time he did that. He originally had planed to put my engagement ring in her head but couldn't figure out how to open it. (she had her wig on and a wig cap on the head so it seamed secure)

So she is my ring box! How romantic is that? Even if it didn't end up in the head.

Any ways that is the story of my Soom Recast, Now for my Recast I bought knowingly... another long story. This is also part of my 2 cents on it.

I am pro Recast in 1 certain area, and that is because of the company who created my doll wouldn't help me. I bought a Soom Cuprit Crown from a recaster. It is the only other thing I own that is recasted, that was bought by me and purposely sought out as a recast.

Quickish story why this is mine. After I was kicked from the forums for owning my Little Ring Box (that is what we called her) any ways I was out on a photoshoot with Cuprit and I dropped her crown. It broke in three pieces and I was devastated. So I got my gf to log into her account on DOA and we searched for a Cuprit Crown for under a 150usd price tag (that is as much as I was willing to spend) but no go on that.

So I contacted Soom and offered them the 150 for the crown and shipping to have a new crown made didn't even need to be the original colour it could be clear or dark blue. I didn't care I just wanted her crown in one piece. I had glued mine back together. But it looked horrible I could see the cracks.

They said no, what is done is done! So I went to an artist friend of mine and had him recast it. He rook my broken one, made a mold, poured it in resin, fixed the fractures and walla! I have a new crown in Clear Resin for only $50.

Was I in the wrong? Most likely but as Soom was not willing to replace and I couldn't find one on DOA I did the next best thing. If soom ever would let me buy a new one close to the original colour I would hop on that in a heart beat!

Any ways it is also marked as recast a small rc etched into the back by the magnet, and her magnet also has RC written and sealed into it. Also to note we still have this mold as he keeps them and he has a feeling I might break this one. Smart man, knows me well. But he doesn't sell the crown to others. He does to me cuz I own the original.

So I am not pro recasting in whole, but I do find it can be useful. In saying that I am not getting rid of My Little Ring Box (sorry not happening people who ask me to need to stop!)

Would I buy a doll knowingly that is a recast. NO! I wouldn't. I also don't buy dolls second hand without documentation on them, or from people I know. I also don't ask people if they are pro recast before buying (happened to my GF when she sold one of her Soom Dolls, compleate set in original box and everything.... really...) that is none of my business if you are or not!

I do how ever agree with the man hunt thing someone mentioned.

BE IT YOU ARE PRO RECAST OR NO TO RECAST YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TREAT PEOPLE POORLY!

I still get called names, and no one will talk with me in my community. If I make it to a convention they wont even stop to chat cuz they have labelled me as a horrible person. (I don't think I am at least). I have done so much for our community in the past but they all forgot about it.

I use to run workshops on care for BJD, and I could clean ANYTHING off of a BJD. I mean anything! I got permanent marker off of one without sanding her. 

But as soon as I owned a Recast and stated as much I get treated poorly. I got kicked out of DOA for owning one (even though I never posted that on DOA or posted pictures of her there)

So I am pro artist not pro recaster even if I went and had a piece recasted for my own use! (Is that really any different? hn...)

Being pro artist will I get rid of the two recast Pieces I own. NO! My husband did an amazing thing, and the crown. well I tried to get the company to fix the issue. And I did look to buy a new one from another owner. So I did what I could to replace it legit like, and it is clearly marked as a recast.

I don't know recast is a sticky situation Please remember if you are pro or no! We are all still people and should be treated as such.

Sorry this is long!

Edit to add; I wanted to say some people in my local still talk to me, but many of them do not. I am actually not overly hurt by this, I just find it sad that they let that come between what could have been a good friendship!

[rosierjay]

*hugs* wow! intense.
i don't understand the need for the labels. i know many people will probably never buy a vinyl doll from me again either now that i have a recast. that's fine they don't have to, as i'm not selling my bjd on here anyway. i guess i'll stick with ebay. i dont think i'll need to label myself as a recast owner as some mh fans don't do bjd too.
it just seems like more segregation and hatred. and i don't understand what the end goal is supposed to be.

anyway thank you for sharing your story Phynix.