*updated title* PC rare and questionably authentic G4

[CrystalSnowflake]

The biggest reason I suggested a separate thread is that I know where this was headed. There is nothing wrong with another thread for discussion that references this thread or a comment here noteing you will discuss the finer points elsewhere.

There isn't an official term for these types of ponies because that would imply the reason for their existence.  Prototype,  factory flaw,  misprint, samples,  etc.  It all assumes you know how they came to be.  I don't think anyone can provide that because it's just speculation and hearsay.

The ones I have pictured are about as Hasbro as they get for not getting an official release. My best guess is they are samples for color, hair or mistakes like loading the wrong hair in a batch. What should happen to otherwise perfect product not created to spec or has served its limited purpose?

I certainly am not trying to pass these off as something they are not but rare and sought after they are due to their unique and often exceptionally beauty. As far as cost they are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them.

What makes something Hasbro authentic?  Having a final packaged release?  That is a kin to saying if I order a cake and they didn't spell my name right on it and they make another that the misspelled one is a fake or bootleg. That would mean a lot of rare ponies out there of all generations just became fakes.

[Sweet Daes]

I'm trying to not derail this thread.

The ponies listed here are from the same source as Hasbro ponies. They are not Hasbro authentic, as they weren't released as is. But they aren't bootlegs.

A lot of them have the same numbers printed on the bottom like the official releases. I feel like another thread could be opened if you wanna compare feet..I have a muffin with big eyes. there's also really old topics if you wanna search back a few years.

It's not derailing- I am speaking frankly about the value and how Taobao ponies may not have the same inherent monetary value as previously presumed.

If they are not Hasbro official ponies then they are not rare acquisitions of factory errors and prototypes, therefore, are bootlegs and/or knockoffs. These would be the very definition of bootleg because they are not official Hasbro merchandise- I doubt any business would have permission to make and release ponies and bite into Hasbro's profits.

It's a little known fact that the most copyright infringement happens in China. They barely do anything about it for whatever reason. Even a legal powerhouse like Disney can't stop their stuff from being knocked off. This is a fact relayed to me from my boss who was born and raised in China and is a successful white-collar businessman with a background in brand protection.

Like I said, I have found threads and going by community-assumed evidence, much of the collectible lies in the fact that "they are worth having just because". The monetary value of these are definitely subjective from person to person due to them being unofficial.

To me, I wouldn't go over $25 for any of them because there is not inherent antiquity investment value, they are off-brand/unbranded and not prototypes or necessarily all that rare. Cool to have, but not part of the official line.

If anyone else wants to pay more for them then that's cool, but them being unbranded affects that value to me. I'd pay $100+ for an official pony that was comprised of factory errors, but not one that lacks official Hasbro branding.


@CrystalSnowflake, then they are mislabeled as prototypes.

[banditpony]

I didn't say you were derailing. I said I wasn't trying to. I just wanted to point out they weren't bootlegs.

These toys are worth whatever people wanna pay for them. Doesn't matter where they come from.

What makes something Hasbro authentic?   Having a final packaged release?

Yes.

Anything else is a grey area.

But obviously these are made in the factory as official Hasbro ponies. But these we don't know the history of. Some are pre production, some rejects, some pulled from trash and Frankenstein together.

I call them taobao ponies and it covers all the bases.

[CrystalSnowflake]

Sweet Dads,
What exactly are you looking to achieve in this thread?  I certainly was hoping to achieve some price opinions on some ponies that are rare and/or prototypes. 

I will certainly take your price opinion of not more than $25 dollars and that my description is misleading under advisement.

Banditpony - That would mean ponies used in Hasbro displays at events are also not authentic because they have no official packaged release. 

Would love to hear others pricing opinions as well.
I also updated the title to avoid further debate and derailment of this price check thread.

[Sweet Daes]

I didn't say you were derailing. I said I wasn't trying to. I just wanted to point out they weren't bootlegs.

These toys are worth whatever people wanna pay for them. Doesn't matter where they come from.

Sweet Dads,
What exactly are you looking to achieve in this thread?  I certainly was hoping to achieve some price opinions on some ponies that are rare and/or prototypes. 

I will certainly take your price opinion of not more than $25 dollars and that my description is misleading under advisement.

Would love to hear others pricing opinions as well.

If it isn't labeled as official and doesn't have a reputable citation of origin then it can be seen as being not official. That makes it unlicensed and it slides into the realm of fakies, which means they should not be labeled as a prototype. If it were indeed a prototype, then it wouldn't be for Hasbro.

I mean, it seems like the value of these is based on the metaphor "it looks like a duck", but it's not quacking to me. There is nothing to validate that these are prototypes, and I've seen listings price them at $200-$300 while leaving out the fact that they are not authentic Hasbro.

I am hoping that this be clarified for those who are looking for information on legitimate pony figures who may get misinformed as to the legitimacy of China-made ponies

[banditpony]

I feel like all of us agree where they come from...

But regardless, people are willing to pay money for ponies they want-- no matter who made it.

[LadyMoondancer]

I agree that they're from the Hasbro factory, probably as production samples.

IMO Minty without the black outline on her symbol is a legit prototype in the way people normally think of "prototype".  She appeared on Taobao before outline-Minty ever hit the stores. Therefore she was not a "copy" of the produced Minty, but clearly came first.

This is also the case with smaller-eyes SDCC Ditzy Muffin.  (Not sure if that is the version you have or not.)  She was on Taobao before she was released--in her packaging.  I know this for certain because I actually posted a pic of her on a thread full of bronies on a different forum and the geniuses thought she was fake because of her box--never having paid attention to what SDCC boxes looked like since previous SDCC ponies weren't G4s.  *insert eyeroll icon here*

A lot of the others are, as bandit said, probably hair samples.  Where the factory just grabbed whatever pony bodies were nearby to root sample hair colors.  They do the same thing with the HQG1C sample ponies.  "Oh, you think Hair A + Hair B looks good?  Okay, we put it on this pony.  You want to see Hair Color C?  Here it is on this other pony."

Whether they are considered "real", "authentic", or should be called "prototypes" . . . I guess that is a matter of personal opinion.  They are part of the process of creating a pony . . . *shrug*  Personally I think of them as prototypes, even if they aren't as "finished" as, for example, the white Celestia who is photographed on the back of Pinkestia's backcard.  But, if other people don't consider them prototypes, fair enough.

The price shouldn't depend on whether they're prototypes or hair samples or whatnot;  it should be based on how much demand there is for them and how much people are willing to pay.  It doesn't matter if they're 'real', just if someone wants them.  OP, if you are not sure how to price them, try putting just one of them up on eBay (as an auction) and see how much she sells for.

(Though Minty and Ditzy Muffin will certainly be worth more than the others.)

Edit:  To me the argument that they shouldn't be priced at over $25 doesn't make any sense.  They should be priced at the maximum value they can be sold at . . . whether that's $10, $30, or $300.   Demand is what sets a price . . . not authenticity.  I paid more for Princess Rinse 'n Spit than I did for Posey, even though Princess Rinse 'n Spit is a bootleg and Posey is a real MLP.

Now, I don't know how much demand there is for these wacky ponies.  But I would guess people would pay more for them than for genuine Pinkie Pie #324, LOL.  Especially since these wacko ponies, once common on Taobao, are not really seen anymore.

That's why I think the best option is to run an auction for one of them and just see how much it goes for.

[banditpony]

This is also the case with smaller-eyes SDCC Ditzy Muffin.  (Not sure if that is the version you have or not.)  She was on Taobao before she was released--in her packaging.  I know this for certain because I actually posted a pic of her on a thread full of bronies on a different forum and the geniuses thought she was fake because of her box--never having paid attention to what SDCC boxes looked like since previous SDCC ponies weren't G4s.  *insert eyeroll icon here*

Wasn't that first taobao muffin large eyed with two toned hair?

some of our forum claimed "fake" too haha.. good times
http://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=293043.0

Oddly enough I'm curious to her price as I have one to eventually sell. At some point she hit $300+ but that was before the fair and SDCC were released..

[LadyMoondancer]

You might be right about the first one being large-eyed . . . I just remembered there was some kind of eye-size difference.

Oh yeah, the two-toned hair!  She looked a lot like G3 Bubblecup at first.  I still like calling her Bubblecup.

LOL . . . good times indeed!   Ah, the hazards of trusting Hasbro customer service too much.  Like when they said all four G3 Season ponies would come to the US.

[pinkkittywinks]

I'm going to have a go at pricing these for you my prices are based on items sold here and ended auctions on eBay. You may well find different selling venues have different prices (thinking of Facebook etc)

Royal blue hair Celestia $25-30
Applebloom with blue hair $25-30
Cherry Pie $30-60 (Pinkie with yellow hair)
Trixieshy $45-80
Lyra Rays $30-40???
Celestia Rarity $80-100
Boxed Muffins $60-100

Celestia - interesting one!!! I paid $350 for mine in 2014 and she is quite different to the store bought white version. Here are two threads for you.

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,359343.msg1251798.html#msg1251798

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,332880.1305.html

God bless Photobucket for not working

Love pkw xxx

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Prototype implies that the ponies were used for Hasbro's sole use internally.  I guess a better term would be "production sample".  So that covers things like different formats (unicorn, pegasi, body colours, hair colours, etc.). 

Most ponies sold on Taobao are either 'Franken-ponies", i.e., Factory has excess heads and excess bodies and excess hair and assembles complete ponies from pieces), OR they are quality control seconds/mistakes, i.e., Pony A is supposed to be white with green hair, someone messed up and ran Pony A through the hairing machine with pink hair.  What makes everything unclear in the era of G4 is that these distinctions are NOT made at the time of sale, and obviously the Chinese factory workers are not going to disclose this fact. 

A third category entirely are "bootlegs", which I take to mean, Hasbro made an order for 2 million units, the factory produced 2,000,472 ponies, and now there is a listing on Taobao for a minimum order of 400 pieces, and 72 ponies sneak out of the factory manager's office and get listed on Amazon/Ebay.

When it comes to G1, the only ponies of these types that still exist are in the hands of former Hasbro employees/designers, OR collectors who have some sort of "supply chain verification", such as, "I bought this from the Delaneys".  they were a old-school family of collectors from the very beginning of MLP who had connections with the employees at Hasbro, in case any one is unaware.  Or if you bought one of these ponies at an long-ago meet up and you have documentation of Collector A with Pony A at their table, then you have documentation of Collector 2 owning Pony A, and so forth.  These super-rare ponies, well, the people who buy them KNOW FULL WELL that they must be documented as such or they lose their value. 

I don't think we have many, if any, of these examples for G2. 

By G3, there was sufficient documentation of these types of ponies, and Hasbro was pretty good about keeping their supply chains "tight" or destroying excess product/production samples,  plus we did not have sales sites like Taobao yet.

By G4... all bets were off.  Unless you have screenshots of the actual Taobao sale listing, with photos, it's pretty much at the sellers' word that they are what they propose to be.

It's just a matter of what antique sellers and art galleries and auction houses define as, "provenance".  It's nothing personal against a seller... just that one needs documentation to be accurately describing what you are selling. 

[Sweet Daes]

Spoiler

I agree that they're from the Hasbro factory, probably as production samples.

IMO Minty without the black outline on her symbol is a legit prototype in the way people normally think of "prototype".  She appeared on Taobao before outline-Minty ever hit the stores. Therefore she was not a "copy" of the produced Minty, but clearly came first.

This is also the case with smaller-eyes SDCC Ditzy Muffin.  (Not sure if that is the version you have or not.)  She was on Taobao before she was released--in her packaging.  I know this for certain because I actually posted a pic of her on a thread full of bronies on a different forum and the geniuses thought she was fake because of her box--never having paid attention to what SDCC boxes looked like since previous SDCC ponies weren't G4s.  *insert eyeroll icon here*

A lot of the others are, as bandit said, probably hair samples.  Where the factory just grabbed whatever pony bodies were nearby to root sample hair colors.  They do the same thing with the HQG1C sample ponies.  "Oh, you think Hair A + Hair B looks good?  Okay, we put it on this pony.  You want to see Hair Color C?  Here it is on this other pony."

Whether they are considered "real", "authentic", or should be called "prototypes" . . . I guess that is a matter of personal opinion.  They are part of the process of creating a pony . . . *shrug*  Personally I think of them as prototypes, even if they aren't as "finished" as, for example, the white Celestia who is photographed on the back of Pinkestia's backcard.  But, if other people don't consider them prototypes, fair enough.

The price shouldn't depend on whether they're prototypes or hair samples or whatnot;  it should be based on how much demand there is for them and how much people are willing to pay.  It doesn't matter if they're 'real', just if someone wants them.  OP, if you are not sure how to price them, try putting just one of them up on eBay (as an auction) and see how much she sells for.

(Though Minty and Ditzy Muffin will certainly be worth more than the others.)

Edit:  To me the argument that they shouldn't be priced at over $25 doesn't make any sense.  They should be priced at the maximum value they can be sold at . . . whether that's $10, $30, or $300.   Demand is what sets a price . . . not authenticity.  I paid more for Princess Rinse 'n Spit than I did for Posey, even though Princess Rinse 'n Spit is a bootleg and Posey is a real MLP.

Now, I don't know how much demand there is for these wacky ponies.  But I would guess people would pay more for them than for genuine Pinkie Pie #324, LOL.  Especially since these wacko ponies, once common on Taobao, are not really seen anymore.

That's why I think the best option is to run an auction for one of them and just see how much it goes for.

Not everyone is going to see value in that way. If you're willing to pay $200 for a pony that doesn't mean I will, and to me, authenticity makes a difference because that is what I collect. I have a 100% verifiable and authentic collection of G4 of over 100 ponies, NIB and loose, a portion of which I opened myself. If I get a fakie that I want to keep then that's cool, but I would never actively collect fakies because that's my personal preference as a collector.

I wouldn't want to buy a "rare prototype" of any generation MLP only to find out that no one can verify that claim. It would suck to have spent $200 on unsubstantiated claims, such as these ponies being produced by the same factory that Hasbro used. It's speculation of origin, not fact, and that is a factor that is likely to negatively affect value when properly disclosed.

Let's say that someone goes to buy a new with tags Coach purse for $1500. If you, personally, find out that it's fake before purchasing it, would you still spend an exorbitant amount of money on it? While this concept may not be as rampant in pony collecting as it is in fashion, some people still apply the same logic to other hobbies.

Anyone can reverse-engineer figures, like this person:
https://orig00.deviantart.net/3282/f/2015/225/6/b/resin_and_glitter_custom_heartthrob_by_tiellanicole-d95iewg.jpg
This pony is pretty convincing, and if it were made in China that would not mean it is the real deal. This artist's ponies are made out of heavy resin that was poured into a mould. Pictures can be deceiving, so skepticism should be allowed in any case where verification of authenticity cannot be achieved.

While they may be cute and would be nice to have, I feel that the appropriate disclosures takes away from the monetary value, like stocks.

[banditpony]

Spoiler

I agree that they're from the Hasbro factory, probably as production samples.

IMO Minty without the black outline on her symbol is a legit prototype in the way people normally think of "prototype".  She appeared on Taobao before outline-Minty ever hit the stores. Therefore she was not a "copy" of the produced Minty, but clearly came first.

This is also the case with smaller-eyes SDCC Ditzy Muffin.  (Not sure if that is the version you have or not.)  She was on Taobao before she was released--in her packaging.  I know this for certain because I actually posted a pic of her on a thread full of bronies on a different forum and the geniuses thought she was fake because of her box--never having paid attention to what SDCC boxes looked like since previous SDCC ponies weren't G4s.  *insert eyeroll icon here*

A lot of the others are, as bandit said, probably hair samples.  Where the factory just grabbed whatever pony bodies were nearby to root sample hair colors.  They do the same thing with the HQG1C sample ponies.  "Oh, you think Hair A + Hair B looks good?  Okay, we put it on this pony.  You want to see Hair Color C?  Here it is on this other pony."

Whether they are considered "real", "authentic", or should be called "prototypes" . . . I guess that is a matter of personal opinion.  They are part of the process of creating a pony . . . *shrug*  Personally I think of them as prototypes, even if they aren't as "finished" as, for example, the white Celestia who is photographed on the back of Pinkestia's backcard.  But, if other people don't consider them prototypes, fair enough.

The price shouldn't depend on whether they're prototypes or hair samples or whatnot;  it should be based on how much demand there is for them and how much people are willing to pay.  It doesn't matter if they're 'real', just if someone wants them.  OP, if you are not sure how to price them, try putting just one of them up on eBay (as an auction) and see how much she sells for.

(Though Minty and Ditzy Muffin will certainly be worth more than the others.)

Edit:  To me the argument that they shouldn't be priced at over $25 doesn't make any sense.  They should be priced at the maximum value they can be sold at . . . whether that's $10, $30, or $300.   Demand is what sets a price . . . not authenticity.  I paid more for Princess Rinse 'n Spit than I did for Posey, even though Princess Rinse 'n Spit is a bootleg and Posey is a real MLP.

Now, I don't know how much demand there is for these wacky ponies.  But I would guess people would pay more for them than for genuine Pinkie Pie #324, LOL.  Especially since these wacko ponies, once common on Taobao, are not really seen anymore.

That's why I think the best option is to run an auction for one of them and just see how much it goes for.

Not everyone is going to see value in that way. If you're willing to pay $200 for a pony that doesn't mean I will, and to me, authenticity makes a difference because that is what I collect. I have a 100% verifiable and authentic collection of G4 of over 100 ponies, NIB and loose, a portion of which I opened myself. If I get a fakie that I want to keep then that's cool, but I would never actively collect fakies because that's my personal preference as a collector.

Sigh.
Obviously these ponies aren't your thing.

But since there are many collectors, some interested in a taobao pony..and THOSE buyers determine the price. You won't pay $25, but I have paid $100+ for one.

I just can't comment currently because it was in 2012... Prices change.

[LadyMoondancer]

Not everyone is going to see value in that way. If you're willing to pay $200 for a pony that doesn't mean I will,

Sure, and that's a valid opinion.  But a seller only needs one person willing to pay their price to make a sale.  (Or two, if they're running an eBay auction.)   One man's trash is another man's treasure and all that.  I wouldn't pay even $10 for a Takara pony (except to resell, LOL) but they are worth more than that at auction.

@ squirmy  G3 prototypes (or whatever you want to call them) were sold on Taobao.  That's where all the G3 'blanks' come from (the regular size eyeless blanks, not the Pony Project ones), as well as Breast Cancer pony (2 versions), the opaque pearlescent Divine Shine pony, the SDCC 'graffiti' pony with an alternate hair color, and some others.

Some ponies were sold there that are exactly the same as their store-sold counterparts, and others were sold that had slight variations, usually in their hair colors.  Sometimes it would even be a pony with all the same hair colors, but the stripes in a different order.

[Sweet Daes]

Spoiler

I agree that they're from the Hasbro factory, probably as production samples.

IMO Minty without the black outline on her symbol is a legit prototype in the way people normally think of "prototype".  She appeared on Taobao before outline-Minty ever hit the stores. Therefore she was not a "copy" of the produced Minty, but clearly came first.

This is also the case with smaller-eyes SDCC Ditzy Muffin.  (Not sure if that is the version you have or not.)  She was on Taobao before she was released--in her packaging.  I know this for certain because I actually posted a pic of her on a thread full of bronies on a different forum and the geniuses thought she was fake because of her box--never having paid attention to what SDCC boxes looked like since previous SDCC ponies weren't G4s.  *insert eyeroll icon here*

A lot of the others are, as bandit said, probably hair samples.  Where the factory just grabbed whatever pony bodies were nearby to root sample hair colors.  They do the same thing with the HQG1C sample ponies.  "Oh, you think Hair A + Hair B looks good?  Okay, we put it on this pony.  You want to see Hair Color C?  Here it is on this other pony."

Whether they are considered "real", "authentic", or should be called "prototypes" . . . I guess that is a matter of personal opinion.  They are part of the process of creating a pony . . . *shrug*  Personally I think of them as prototypes, even if they aren't as "finished" as, for example, the white Celestia who is photographed on the back of Pinkestia's backcard.  But, if other people don't consider them prototypes, fair enough.

The price shouldn't depend on whether they're prototypes or hair samples or whatnot;  it should be based on how much demand there is for them and how much people are willing to pay.  It doesn't matter if they're 'real', just if someone wants them.  OP, if you are not sure how to price them, try putting just one of them up on eBay (as an auction) and see how much she sells for.

(Though Minty and Ditzy Muffin will certainly be worth more than the others.)

Edit:  To me the argument that they shouldn't be priced at over $25 doesn't make any sense.  They should be priced at the maximum value they can be sold at . . . whether that's $10, $30, or $300.   Demand is what sets a price . . . not authenticity.  I paid more for Princess Rinse 'n Spit than I did for Posey, even though Princess Rinse 'n Spit is a bootleg and Posey is a real MLP.

Now, I don't know how much demand there is for these wacky ponies.  But I would guess people would pay more for them than for genuine Pinkie Pie #324, LOL.  Especially since these wacko ponies, once common on Taobao, are not really seen anymore.

That's why I think the best option is to run an auction for one of them and just see how much it goes for.

Not everyone is going to see value in that way. If you're willing to pay $200 for a pony that doesn't mean I will, and to me, authenticity makes a difference because that is what I collect. I have a 100% verifiable and authentic collection of G4 of over 100 ponies, NIB and loose, a portion of which I opened myself. If I get a fakie that I want to keep then that's cool, but I would never actively collect fakies because that's my personal preference as a collector.

Sigh.
Obviously these ponies aren't your thing.

But since there are many collectors, some interested in a taobao pony..and THOSE buyers determine the price. You won't pay $25, but I have paid $100+ for one.

I just can't comment currently because it was in 2012... Prices change.

Only because of this thread; that I learned that they are not original Hasbro and it's up for debate as to their origin. Everything I've ever seen claims these ponies as "prototypes", and, like what lovesbabysquirmy mentioned, what that word implies is not what would be bought.

As I said in my post that was clipped off, if they were the real deal from Hasbro I might- I've spent $80 on my most recent pony, but it was G1. But, even vendors on Taobao rarely disclose origin, or are likely to lie through their teeth because they were duped into purchasing a bum product or just want to unload it because they were told to or out of necessity. That's the sad reality when it comes to anything that comes out of China that is not sanctioned by Hasbro themselves.

Some ponies were sold there that are exactly the same as their store-sold counterparts, and others were sold that had slight variations, usually in their hair colors.  Sometimes it would even be a pony with all the same hair colors, but the stripes in a different order.

Everything I have been exposed to so far has been pictures of ponies and word of mouth, nothing solid or substantial- just because they looked the part doesn't mean they were authentic without investigating the product.

As I said, I only JUST learned thanks to this thread that a good portion of these were knock-offs/bootlegs/not Hasbro, or could have been ripped by another company entirely. No one should blame me for be skeptical because of the prices these are typically at with the labeling of "prototype", and that being synonymous with Taobao.