International living with kids - advice needed!

[Katgyrl]

So my husband has the opportunity to possibly work abroad for one or two years and my kids and I would go with him of course. It is a really exciting thing and kind of a once in a lifetime opportunity type thing that I know would be a great experience for my family, but as a mom I am a little terrified of the prospect of going to a different country with little kids and knowing how to keep everyone safe. Also my oldest son who is 8 has high functioning autism, so we are not exactly your typical family.

I am wondering if I can get some advice from those of you who live or have lived in the countries we might be able to go to, maybe how kid friendly traveling there is, or areas that are better to live in with kids (good schools, safe neighborhoods, etc), areas that are more affordable to live in (I have four kiddos!), and if anyone can share how you feel your area's autism/special needs support is, it would really help me know if this is something we can seriously consider or not! The biggest thing for me is my autistic soon and if we would be able to continue to get support for him. We've been trying to search for info online and not really finding anything super helpful.

The countries were would probably consider and my husband's company has offices in are England, Australia, Sweden, Scotland, and maybe Paris if we could afford it. I know there are lots of pony friends in those countries. Thank you in advance for your help!!

[autieluna]

Hey! I am an american who sadly doesn't know a ton about the international laws and customs regarding things so much as I do here, but I am autistic and would be happy to give advice or resources in all areas that I can

I'll see if I've got any links around on traveling while autistic. If you tell me the countries, I can also check that out among the Autistic community that I know! I've got a forum I could ask around in that may know a lot more about that.

Edit: oh, there they are! I'll let you know if i get any info.

[Loa]

I think Australia would be a great place to experience for you & the kids.
It's safe, warm, full of things that will bite you and has a great education system!

[tikibirds]

Well, I'm an American female living alone in China...so yeah.
If you choose to move to another English speaking country, and one with somewhat similar customs/traditions then it will be a lot easier to adjust. If you want more of an adventure, then opt for a non English speaking country.
For me, I am in a small town in Northeast china. I can not speak Chinese and nobody here can speak any English, except for the students I teach. Also, there are only 3 other foreigners here and I never see them. Since Gaomi has no reason for tourists to visit, many locals here, especially the ones from the near-by villages, have never seen a foreigner before. People are always trying to take sneaky pictures of me or flat out staring at me.

If you have the change to go experience another culture, then I think you should. Its good exposure for the kids and can help your family grow stronger as you will be needed each other even more.

Also, do a bit of research on CULTURE SHOCK because when you enter the 2nd phase of it, it's a b*tch. You will hate EVERYTHING about the country you are in, and will want nothing more then to go back home, even if you HATE where you came from. Trust me on this. Eventually, those feeling will ease and everything wil be right in the world again.

As for the autism thing, I would think you would be OK in any of the countries you mentioned. It's not like you plan on going to rural africa or china where there isnt any support for your son. Maybe try looking into International schools in whatever city you plan on going to? My Boyfriend is high functioning autistic, but I left his ass home to take care of my dog  Plus he had a job at the university of Mass doing something Sheldon Cooper like. I dont think he would do good here - too much outside stimiluation and too many people.

[Princess Lala]

I would honestly go with Australia hands-down! I would never want to leave either! The opportunity for your kids to grow up there (even if its for a few years) and with the education system they have your kids have large areas of careers they can choose from! They may want to stay and become inspired by the wildlife that they may want to have a career in animal science! I would kill to have the oppurtunity to help save the GBR and endangered species myself. My friend from Queensland (she regrets moving here as they are stuck working at PF Chang's LOL) is talking about moving back because she felt safe over there versus in America. The stories she tells me really makes me want to go there! Australia is one of those places I would love to see and I think your kids would really love it there!

I have relatives in Sweden who are moving to Norway and parts of Canada, they recently called me and told me not to come see Göteburg anytime soon because its not safe. I dont know for certain of this is true or if they just don't like new people moving in their country. But see Sweden has some hardcore amazing healthcare and great job/education opportunities so that's important for children. It takes several years to get a house there however. Sweden had a large amount of refugees and please note- most of them are good people trying to have a normal life because they left their homes because of war. However Sweden isn't doing background checks as intense as other countries. You will need to see their situation from their side and learn to accept them, the poor dears. Its important to consider this before moving there. Don't let the headlines in Swedish news scare you from going there!
The situation is something to really read up on.

Defiently read up on culture shock because its a serious thing! My friend, from this tiny island between the Phillipenes and Japan, has been struggling from it though he has lived here for quite some time. That's why we use all Japanese items and only buy food that is available in his country in my home so he doesn't feel like a total stranger here. Its a dream for an otaku like me to make all these foods for him! x3

[Tilly]

Australia would be a dream, but realise that, if the kids would want to stay if they grow older, it's near impossible! For a foreigner to work in Australia, you can get a visum. But to become an aussie, no. I know an expat family, where the kids have been there for a large part of their lives. Their parents split up, one moving back to England and the other back to Indonesia. The kids had dual passports (Indonesia and UK), but in the end they could only finish their schools and then had to go. I believe you have to proof you'd have a certain income to stay, which is quite steep.

In Scandinavia food is relatively expensive. I live in the Netherlands myself, and went on vacation there. Simple vegetables were 3 or 4 times the price in our supermarkets. Maybe something to consider if your husbands salary stays the same. Housing was ok though ;-)

It's really just where you want to go, but I'd certainly do so! An Enlish speaking country would be easiest on the kids, though learning another language could be fun too.

[kaoskat]

How exciting! I have no advice, but I wish you luck!

[Shileah]

I've lived in Paris for a year myself - given you mean the French capital. It's definitely not as pretty to live there, as to visit it as a tourist. That's something people tend to forget when they think about a city with such a great reputation like Paris. Paris if you live there is not pretty, it is loud, it smells bad, it's very crowded, people are horribly unfriendly, everything is very expensive, especially fresh food and veggies, and there is poo everywhere - dog poo, pigeon poo, sometimes even human poo. They even have little vaccum cars driving around to suck up the poo, but you will still learn to look on the ground when walking somewhere so that you do not accidentally step into one of these poo bombs (it will still happen to you on a regular basis).
Public transport is great, except when they go on strike, which happens all the time. You sit on your RER train going to the airport to catch a plane for a home visit, suddenly the train stops - "eh bon, c'est la grève!".
You'll also have a hard time when you do not speak French, even more so as American.
Living in Paris itself is very, very expensive, and it is extremely difficult to find something to rent. You both ideally have permanent contracts (temporary ones are not welcome by landlords), and you will need an agency to make the appointments as people will hang up on you if you call yourself. We had a 70 square metres apartment and paid 1800 Euros per month, plus costs for water, heating etc. You'll probably try to find something outside. With an 1 hour, 1,5 hours commute (one way) you will be able to find something nice and affordable, where you can also let your kids play outside after school.
Public schooling, and generally kids care, is great though. Children are in school for a good part of the day, not only in the mornings, but also in the afternoons.

This said, Paris itself has a lot to offer, mainly in cultural areas and arts. If you like variety in food, you'll have so many restaurants to pick from. While my posting might sound like a rant, it is still a great experience to live there. I wouldn't recommend moving there as parents, though, just because I think it is a too dangerous area for kids and they will grow up too far away from nature.

[melodys_angel]

I haven't personally been to any of those places but ive heard a few things--

Specifically, Australia is a wonderful place if you are savy enough to stay safe of the wildlife.  I don't know much about living there other then you have to be able to get granted some kind of visa to work in order to stay--and that's super hard to do and is normally restricted (I had the option of going to Australia to finish off my college schooling but got too sick to persue it so this is from what ive been told related to me and my studies)

Paris..I wouldn't touch with a 50 foot pole.  Ive heard that the natives do not care for kids at all and can be quite cold.
ETA: So It IS like Quebec. Stay the heck away.  If you cant speak French (aside from the very basics, even you accent), you will not survive.  Especially if for some reason you need help...need to go see a doctor or go to the hospital. It will be like a nightmare for you.

I have horror stories of people going to Quebec and I know about accents and 'the official language' vs a slang version (youre speaking French but you cant be understood).  Its not pretty...just don't do it.

England can be fun and im sure, depending on the area your family can adjust while getting a huge dose of culture.  I would assume that things like schooling and healthcare is similar to Canada..and if that's the case, area permitting, you should be fine.

[Katgyrl]

Thank you for all the advice so far! I am definitely leaning toward an English speaking country. I personally would love to go to Australia, I love the animals there, but I also would love England because of all the history there. It's good to know Australia has a good education system. I know healthcare and insurance is also going to play a part in it.

If anyone has anything else they can share I appreciate it!!

[xeevee]

Hey Kat!  I've been travelling with my husband for 4 years now with my two kids (son who was 6 when we started travelling, is 10 now, and daughter who was 2 when we started and is 6 now).  We are Australian and I've lived in China, Germany, America and England.

Do not worry about your kids.  Kids are resilient and they learn languages fast.  I've lived in 2 non-English speaking countries now and had no problems at all.

Things to look is Visa costs.  I have no idea what Australia is like, as I am Australian.  Maybe it's expensive.  No idea.  But Europe is pretty cheap.  I can't say for sure about France or Sweden (I have looked into Sweden in the past, but it was a while ago, it wasn't too bad).  But generally the EU is pretty consistent.  Germany was 90€ so not too shabby really.  England however is obscenely expensive.  It cost us £500 each.  So almost $4000 just for the visas.  And I'm Australian and Australia and the U.K. have a reciprocal health care arrangement.  England and America do not, so it's more expensive again.  Every country you move to for work will require a visa, however given you will be moving with your husbands work you will have no trouble getting one.  It won't be the lottery for you, you'll just get one.  The U.K. in general has a lot of other red tape to get through to.  It has been by far the most frustrating and expensive country I've moved to.  The schools here are lovely though.  Really high quality for public schools.  And lots of free extracurricular stuff thrown in.  However you can not organise your school before you get here.  They have to come interview you first.  Totally weird.

Travelling and experiencing culture is such a great thing for kids to do too.  I am so proud of my two and the languages they have learned and things they have tried.  Seeing them make friends when they don't have languages in common and trying strange foods.  It's really lovely.  So don't be scared of Paris or Sweden. 

If you want to ask specific things feel free to message me.  I have a lot of experience with health care systems and visa and flying long haul with kids and finding houses when you don't speak the language and enrolling kids into foreign schools. 

[GazeboMouse]

England is hit-and-miss when it comes to schooling and autism, depending on local area as to what schooling there is, depends what your son's actual needs are, whether he's ok in mainstream school with or without support, or an autism unit attached to a mainstream school,  or does better in special school really. Varies a lot between counties and local council areas of counties. And also support such as respite, or holiday clubs or youth clubs, Autism support groups etc varies, you'd have to know what area it was then English people here in that local area could help you out! What are your son's specialist subjects or main interests? Anything suitable to be encouraged that might encourage him to be enthusiastic for a particular country?
Although you want to protect your children, emotionally as well as physically, also your son needs to develop resilience to change, for his future life when you both won't be there, and a move abroad could be part of that learning.  You won't know unless you try. It isn't like moving up a Nepalese mountain, or living in a Yurt in Mongolia,  I suppose.
(Says she, helpfully, having spent a long and tiring day at work trying to calm down a high functioning autistic teenager distressed at a weekend incident involving an Ipad and his younger brother's head, distress manifesting as 'Streetfighter' moves and an obsession with mentioning the word 'KOALA!' in a loud voice throughout all lessons!)

[Tzan19]

I live in Scotland and have a lot of experience working with children with autism.  Scotland is a very beautiful country and in general a very safe place to bring up  children.  However I am very sorry to say that in terms of service provision, education and even a basic knowledge and understanding of people with autism we are way behind (way way behind) the U.S.  Part of my work has often involved teaching teachers and support workers (who are working with people with autism) basic autism awareness.  Services are limited at best and families have to fight very hard to get support, or in fact a diagnosis in the first place.  This is the case for children and those with very high support needs and it gets even more difficult for those that are high functioning and support for adults is extremely limited (in general understanding of the condition is limited). We are getting better...but like I said we are way behind countries such as the U.S or Australia.  Example - Try finding and O.T with an understanding of sensory sensitivities, or in fact in the national health service try finding an O.T. full stop.   Anyway this is a major source of irritation for me and I am continuously faced with evidence on how poor we are at this, it's embarrassing.   Just this morning there was a piece on the news with a couple from England who's 15 year old son had been placed 4 hours away from his family in a secure unit completely inappropriate for his needs purely because there was no other appropriate service for him (i.e his local authority didn't have a clue what to do with him). I could go on all day.

I don't know about Paris or Sweden but honestly if it were me and I was working on the priority of provision/education for my son I would say Australia over England or Scotland.  I think especially coming from the U.S you would be disappointed and frustrated to say the very least. Honestly I am ashamed to say that but also I can't stress this enough.


@ autieluna I hope my terms have not caused any offence we are taught that the PC here is "with autism" and not "autistic" but I am aware that this is also beginning to change especially in the autism community 

[xeevee]

I just looked up the cost of Australian visas.  Holy moly, I thought England was bad.  For you to get visas for England for you and your family it would be around 4500 pound... so about $5700 ish US.  For you and your family to get Australian Visas it varies for age and what not, but it would be $AU9000 so about $6800US (and currently rising).  So it's not cheap either way.  And on top of that you have 6 flights and finding a home.  Your move wont be a cheap thing to do.  I still recommend it, but just thought you'd like to see what you're in for. 

[Katgyrl]

Oh my goodness you guys are being so helpful! Seriously, I love our forum, I asked sound some Facebook friends and did not get even close to the amount of responses as here

(Says she, helpfully, having spent a long and tiring day at work trying to calm down a high functioning autistic teenager distressed at a weekend incident involving an Ipad and his younger brother's head, distress manifesting as 'Streetfighter' moves and an obsession with mentioning the word 'KOALA!' in a loud voice throughout all lessons!)

Lol, this made me smile. Last fall my son would randomly start singing "Let it Go" in class all the time, or the ABCs. Right now he's in public school in a general ed class with an aid that comes in to help with some subjects. We also have a behavior therapy that comes after school to work with him and that has been huge. What he's into varies, mostly it's letters and numbers, math, and most recently the planets. He's one that is really hard to get interested in something that's not his idea.

I'll have to ask my hubby where in England it might be. I asked him about Australia and more there only place I can remember he said is Melbourne. Sydney was probably one of them. I know they're is an office in London because he worked there for two weeks last fall (the longest two weeks of my life lol).