Advice? Item damage due to poor packing-Non Pony-Solved

[tulagirl]

I bought a vintage child's suitcase from an online seller. Not here.  This was a canvas style suitcase with a metal bar around the edges in between the fabric and then metal in the piping around the edges.The seller shipped the item in a plastic bag.  It was wrapped in flat plastic, stuffed with flat plastic and then a garbage style black bag was used around the outside.  There was no box, no packing peanuts and no bubble wrap.  I spent quite a bit for it.
 I was horrified when it finally arrived, because it was squashed.  The top upper piping metal is bent.  I am very upset that the seller thought it was okay to ship it without a box.  They stand by their position that they wrapped it perfectly for shipment.  I sent photos of the damage to compare with their photos of the product before shipment.  They blame the post office.  They want to file and insurance claim.  I know when I take the plastic baggie this item was shipped in down to the USPS they are not going to accept the insurance claim.  I have been down this road before.  This is the only compensation this seller is offering me.  They will not accept responsibility and honestly, I feel this damage is their fault.  To me its dishonest to try to get a claim filed when you didn't do your part to make sure a shipment was well packed.
They said packed it that way to save me shipping as I asked. I never asked them to save me on shipping.  I only asked them the price to ship it since that was not mentioned in the listing on Etsy.
They have not suggested any sort of refund on their end as a seller and have not asked me to return the item to them.  It would cost me quite a bit to return it and ship it properly.  I feel its best to just not mess with that.  What kind of feedback does this seller deserve? I am at a loss.  I am so disappointed in them and the way they have handled this saying insurance is there to cover this kind of thing. No, its not.  You can't ship something in a garbage bag and expect the post office to cover your mistakes.

[Thunderwing]

This is a tough one. First you need to know if Etsy has any sort of policy like ebay, for items not as described. If they do, then great! Obviously what you received was not as described, because it was damaged in transit.

However, if they do not, you need to be very careful. I've been in a similar situation, buying something privately from someone (off ebay), with paypal, and it was not at all as described. I filed a 'not as described' claim, and paypal DENIED IT.  They said that because they had no proof of the item's condition before it was mailed, even though the seller had sent me pictures which I could provide to paypal, it was not good enough. They said the photos could have been faked so were not acceptable as evidence. The only claims paypal will accept off ebay, are for not received.

Now, this was several years ago, and things may have changed. I would get on the phone with a paypal rep ASAP, and find out what you need to do to help your case. Obviously the item was not shipped properly. If it had been a porcelain figure and just tossed in a box with no padding and arrived broken, that is totally not your fault. Call paypal before you try to file a claim, see what they have to say, find out what you need to have the case decided in your favor.

[tulagirl]

Yea I have gone the etsy route but what I needed was to talk to customer service about this issue since it doesn't fall under their help section.  I have had no luck getting a phone number for them.  As far as a paypal claim. I really don't want to file a paypal claim due to the fact that I will be shipping this back at my own cost and to ship it properly will cost me twice what I originally paid for shipping.  By the time I go through this process I am going to lose money.  So, we made the decision not to mess with that.  Etsy is not run like ebay. I just really need to know what kind of feedback is deserved if I don't return it which the seller has not been willing to take a return anyway.  If I don't participate in this insurance claim with the post office...because it will be denied..what feedback do I leave?

[bluerose9978]

I wouldn't leave feedback yet. Feedback means you are completely done with the transaction. I would wait until you have done what you can to file a dispute and then worry about feedback. And it would be negative for both communication and shipping. Not sure how etsy works, but if they have categories like eBay to dock stars, it would have as few as I could give if I was you!!!

[tulagirl]

I wouldn't leave feedback yet. Feedback means you are completely done with the transaction. I would wait until you have done what you can to file a dispute and then worry about feedback. And it would be negative for both communication and shipping. Not sure how etsy works, but if they have categories like eBay to dock stars, it would have as few as I could give if I was you!!!

They have a star system only with no negative or positive.  You just leave the stars you feel the seller deserves 5 being the highest and 1 being the lowest.

[Thunderwing]

If the seller is not willing to work with you (pay for return shipping, or at least a partial refund without hassle) then a negative is warranted. That's just super careless shipping, plain and simple. Other people deserve to be warned.

[Ringlets]

I wouldn't leave feedback yet. Feedback means you are completely done with the transaction. I would wait until you have done what you can to file a dispute and then worry about feedback. And it would be negative for both communication and shipping. Not sure how etsy works, but if they have categories like eBay to dock stars, it would have as few as I could give if I was you!!!

They have a star system only with no negative or positive.  You just leave the stars you feel the seller deserves 5 being the highest and 1 being the lowest.

Hmm.. if you're absolutely certain you don't want to take this any further then leave feedback, but I'm not sure I'd give up on the return/refund thing yet if I were you.  Since Etsy doesn't work the same as ebay in this kind of case then I would at least try calling Paypal to see what they could potentially do to help with this.  Things have changed over the years and there is definitely more chance of them siding with you now. You'll need to mention the cost of return shipping making you out of pocket though- sometimes .. at least when paypal and ebay were together, if this happened then they would pay for the return shipping. I don't know about Paypal on its own but its worth asking them what their advice is

As regards feedback on Etsy I think you can leave comments as well as star ratings  cant you?   I've bought from there before but never had an issue so I'd have to check... but unless this seller does make things right  (and no it isn't the POs fault that they didn't pack the item securely enough! nor should you be having to deal with trying to make a PO claim over what was the sellers fault)  then I would give that seller the lowest stars possible, and some honest comments about what happened so that others can be warned.
Please let us know how it goes, and I'm sorry you had to deal with such a disappointing situation and an unhelpful seller too

[FantasticFirefly]

that sucks.
In the event of something like this, not minor things, but biggies, I always fund payment with someone I don't know with a creditcard as an extra layer. It's a hassle to call your CC company, but they'll force the refund if necessary unless regulations have changed. If you buy something, it has to arrive, in the condition promised. a smacked in case to poor packaging falls within that I would think.

[tulagirl]

Since i won't  get shipping money for a return and this is expensive to ship that is not an option.  I have given them another idea, but i have no idea what will happen. I may have to take my losses on this one.  Sigh

[LadyMoondancer]

Wow, I would be so disappointed and horrified if I received an item like that wrapped in a garbage bag.  What a disappointment!

[tulagirl]

Man I am so upset.  The seller basically said I could return it at my own expense but they would only give me a partial refund based on the fact they took money off of it originally.  It got so nutso I decided to contact paypal this morning by phone.  If I am going to have to go to the expense of a return I deserve a full refund not a partial refund. Paypal opened a case and they would tell me when to ship.  They could not promise they would help me with the shipping cost, but I did find that Fed X ground will cost the least for a 5 pound over sized box compared to USPS.
So, not only have I lost a much desired childhood item, but I am going to lose money in the process maybe.  Paypal seemed quite sympathetic, but I really don't know how this is going to turn out.
So after all this don't you feel this seller deserves the least of stars.  I mean I had to involve paypal because I had no idea how to work with this person.  They were not rude, but they just were not willing to accept any responsibility and just did not listen much.

Oh and thanks everyone for your thoughts.  I am really surprised I wasn't able to just work this situation out fairly.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I would leave negative feedback if you possibly could.  "Item shipped in only plastic trash bag.  Paypal assisted w/refund."   

You really have to be honest about the fact that NONE of these factors would have fouled your transaction, if the seller had actually bothered to place your item in a box! 

I didn't think you could actually NOT use packing materials and use the Post Office honestly!  Like I understand certain oversize items but really, a trashbag is considered acceptable protection for temporary property of the federal government?  HOW AND WHY?!  Oh I am so lividly horrified for you!  *pony hugs*

[NoDivision]

Are we sure that Etsy would have made you pay to return the item had you opened a claim through them? I've done a 'not as described' claim on Etsy before and escalated it so that Etsy made the final decision and I  received a refund without having to return.

[tulagirl]

I didn't know I could do that.  That was why I was posting. I had no idea what to do.  I finally had to do something when the seller pulled this you have a week to send your item back at your expense and you won't be getting a full refund thing. I had oral surgery yesterday.  My dad had surgery today.  Sorry, but I am not able to meet these demands and with no other ideas I just called paypal before my surgery.
Now this seller isn't responding to the case at all. I am so confused.  I am still feeling pretty under the weather so, I will post the outcome.  This whole thing is so odd.  I am not sure why a seller would think they could decide what they would refund me after I sent an item back.  I want what I paid back.  That seems reasonable enough.
Its too late to involve Etsy now, but Paypal said not to ship my item until they gave me the proper address and heard from the seller.  Well, so far we have heard nothing from them.  I have been sleeping off and on all day, but I have checked it twice.  Nothing...I don't get it at all.  They have 8 days so I wonder what will end up happening.  I guess this isn't a bad thing really. I am not feeling well enough to ship out my box anyway.  So, maybe buy the time something happens I will feel better.

[banditpony]

Hang in there Tula. I think what you did was right.

I looked at Etsy's policies and there is a statement you can't open a not as described case if item is received damaged. (I feel like this is an exception... Because what the heck).

If they don't respond PayPal will just refund you. (Maybe without a return).This is what buyer protection is for.... Bad sellers.