Vintage MLP copyright questions!??

[Pop!Star]

I know Hasbro has said they could never re-use prior pony names but wouldn't they be able to do if they copywrote the names with "MLP" in the beginning of the name?

That way when they placed the name on the package the Ponies name would be a large font and then it could say "MLP" at the top in a smaller font size, like a trademark symbol?

I'm just confused as to their excuse for not rereleasing vintage ponies in the G4 style.

I know their are a few older named rereleased but they could rerelease so many older ponies!

They're sitting on a potential gold mine!

[Leave a Whisper]

They already have. Applejack and Moondancer. I'm guessing they musta reacquired their rights at some point, because they have been making mugs, clothes and repro ponies here and there.

[MJNSEIFER]

Did Hasbro actually say it was copyright, because there's a chance that they just didn't want ponies from G1 to be used again, as they didn't think the new audience would care/know who they are, or something?

I know we all thought it was copyright in the beginning, but I think we (and Lauren if she thought this too) just got the wrong impression on what Hasbro said.

[hathorcat]

Unfortunately this is one of those pony urban legends

There is nothing stopping Hasbro listing copyright for pony names and styles from G1. Its not that they cant...its that they dont want to

Collectors are a teeny tiny part of the MLP purchasing market (the actual market of children and the larger adult brony market are much more lucrative). They will make more money playing to those markets than us unfortunately

[LadyMoondancer]

They reuse names all the time.  But if for some reason another company "snatched up" a name, or however it works, then yes, they could just market "Unicorn Gusty" or whatever.

They do it all the time with Transformers.  "Autobot Ratchet", "Tripredacus Agent Ravage", etc.

[MJNSEIFER]

There is nothing stopping Hasbro listing copyright for pony names and styles from G1. Its not that they cant...its that they dont want to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xih5HyFOYg

[reanna-mator]

There is nothing stopping Hasbro listing copyright for pony names and styles from G1. Its not that they cant...its that they dont want to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xih5HyFOYg

 

[Wardah]

Trademark. The issue isn't with copyright, it's with trademark. Copyrights are for creative works such as books and music. A trademark protects items that help define a company brand.

[BlushingBlue]

Yeah, the "Hasbro lost all their copyrights" thing is just a weird telephone-game corruption of what went down. The problem was never with copyright. You can't "lose" copyrights, and you can't copyright a name to begin with. It's a trademark issue, which a lot of people conflate with copyright, but registering and defending trademarks is its own thing entirely. You can lose a trademark if you don't aggressively defend it from dilution. Hasbro let a lot of their old trademarks lapse, and they didn't think it was worth the cost and delay to the G4 reboot to go back and sort through all the legal paperwork to see what, if any, vintage MLP names they could use.

For example, circa 2001, Hasbro filed an opposition against a guy trying to use "Cotton Candy" for his own toy. The write-up of which is absurdly hilarious if you don't mind wading through the legalese to get to the parts where, for instance, a Hasbro rep tries to explain "cutie marks" to a judge. The collector community gets a shout-out too, which is nice. But long story short, after years of legal battles and various shady shenanigans, Hasbro was found to have effectively abandoned its "Cotton Candy" trademark. (No worries, they eventually got it back. ) It's understandable that Hasbro didn't want to potentially go through this process another five times to ensure trademarks on Firefly, Surprise, Sparkler, Twilight, and Posey.

The deal wasn't that they could never reuse any old pony names, only that Hasbro thought the trademarking was going to be a huge mess that they didn't want to deal with before getting G4 out the door. Now that they have breathing room, they could certainly go back and either renew a bunch of their old trademarks (that don't have squatters) or tack extra words to a name to make a new trademark. Whether Hasbro sees any benefit to doing that...

[hathorcat]

Unfortunately its not even that they thought trade marks were going to be an issue - on this one Hasbro has no defence other than that it just didnt want to use those names and designs. And to be fair (as annoying as it is to us as collectors) they didnt need to have to defend their decision. They had created the characters and the product line bible with a lot of research and money spent. The characters we got at the start and are getting now are done with purpose and unfortunately seldom is it to cater to us.

[lunar_scythe]

*nods*  I think the whole thing was just some Hasbro person trying to justify 'Hasbro doesn't want to'; because they *are* using vintage pony names and designs on stuff they've made as well as items they've marketed out.

There's the mini books that came with Firefly and now a Glory one is coming out, the dolly mix ponies, the 25th Anniversary retro sets, which *were* made by Hasbro itself, the Horrible Hamilton Firefly and Glory, the (much better) Hallmark and new Snowbabies ornaments, and so on.

[BlushingBlue]

Again, I think people are confusing themselves over the differences between copyright and trademark, and what those two things even mean in the context of making MLP merchandise. Which is understandable considering that it's a little complex and a lot boring, but I'll try to break it down for anyone who is interested. (This is all US-based, btw, other countries have their own laws obvs.)

You automatically have copyright on any original work you create, although formally registering your copyright makes it easier to enforce. Copyright means exactly what it says: you have the right to decide if, when, and by whom your work is copied. Hasbro still has copyrights for any and all of their pony designs. They can slap any pony they want on any product they want without involving trademarks at all.

Trademarks are only for specific names, phrases, and symbols, e.g. "Applejack" toy pony or "Apple Jacks" cereal or Apple's bitten-apple logo. As a company, you'd want to trademark your product's name so you have exclusive legal use of that name, and therefore your customers aren't confused by rival products. Think of a clueless shopper trying to find a "Twilight Sparkle" from a kid's wish list -- Hasbro wants to make sure their toy is the only one on the shelf labeled "Twilight Sparkle". (Having to pick from ten different Twilight Sparkles is the customer's problem. ) Unlike copyright, registering a new trademark is necessary, expensive, and can take months or years complete, but it has nothing to do with what the ponies look like or anything else about them except what they are called.

Hasbro is within its rights to produce retro MLP and even label them with the same names, though those names might not be trademarked. Not having a trademark on a name doesn't mean you can't use it, as long as no one else has trademarked that name for a similar item and wants to stop you; it simply means that you can't legally prevent anyone else from using that name too. Hasbro doesn't care to go to the trouble of (re)registering old pony trademarks because the market is pretty insignificant to them, and they already have their copyrights to the ponies' likenesses which is the important thing for retro tchotchkes.

For the latest mainstream G4 toys, however, every proper noun needs to be trademarked, so Hasbro can be sure no one else gets in on their My Little Pony™ Equestria Girls™ Rainbow Rocks™ Fluttershy™ action. Personally, I would prefer Hasbro continue with their casual niche-market stance on retro MLP, rather than make new trademarks from old ones and reissue G1s as G4s. I don't think I could handle the vicarious embarrassment of Powder Pie, Sky Dazzle Dancer, and Munchy Luck.

[Leave a Whisper]

I just wish we'd get more consideration as a market. I understand them catering to kids because that's what MLP is all about, but why can't the older fans get more love in the forms of  tons of merchandise too? And before anyone says it won't work, I will direct you to the Transformers fandom. They get spoiled rotten in terms of Retro style throwback toys. Hasbro has a large and loyal fanbase that they could make a mint off of, if theyd bother to tap it more often.

[LadyMoondancer]

I just wish we'd get more consideration as a market. I understand them catering to kids because that's what MLP is all about, but why can't the older fans get more love in the forms of  tons of merchandise too? And before anyone says it won't work, I will direct you to the Transformers fandom. They get spoiled rotten in terms of Retro style throwback toys. Hasbro has a large and loyal fanbase that they could make a mint off of, if theyd bother to tap it more often.

Basically, because there aren't enough of us and we aren't willing / able to spend enough money.

Hasbro tried the retro MLP thing with the collector and Rainbow pony sets, but in the poll proceeding the toys MLP collectors said they'd spend no more than $5 per pony on a retro G1 pony.  What incentive does Hasbro have to do a lot of extra work producing a retro pony for less than it cost in the 80s (counting for inflation)?

By contrast, look at Hasbro's rerelease of G1 Devastator, a giant robot made out of six smaller robots.  In the 80s, each of the small robots sold for $6, so $36 total.  But TF collectors are willing to pay $150 today for the retro Devastator set.  And $90 for a show accurate Ironhide and $160 for a show accurate Shockwave and so on.

The other factor is that the Transformers collector community is huge compared to the G1 MLP community--heck, even compared to the brony community IMO.

[Vertefae]

Yes this! My husband collects transformers. Between all the new guys there's always a few recolors of the originals. I'm afraid it's a girl thing honestly. Look at the great reboot the transformers movies were. Even GI Joe was marketed to adults and then you have Jem. Oh let's water it down and turn it into a preteen movie. God forbid females are seen as an actual buying force without being plastered in glitter and cuteness.

I just wish we'd get more consideration as a market. I understand them catering to kids because that's what MLP is all about, but why can't the older fans get more love in the forms of  tons of merchandise too? And before anyone says it won't work, I will direct you to the Transformers fandom. They get spoiled rotten in terms of Retro style throwback toys. Hasbro has a large and loyal fanbase that they could make a mint off of, if theyd bother to tap it more often.