The mythology of Ribbon and Lofty...

[LadyMoondancer]

Was the movie released to theaters in the UK / Europe?  I think that would be a factor.  Because if you've just spent all that money on an animated toy commercial, you might as well use it to sell toys.  But if the movie wasn't shown (or was direct to video) that would be less of a factor.

All the ponies they chose did play a prominent part in the movie, one way or another.

Buttons:  Director of the baby ponies' dance, shouted at Baby Lickety-Split, leading to BLS running away.  Had a touching reunion with BLS at the end (instead of a touching reunion with adult Lickety-Split who was, uh, not shown at all).

Gusty:  Part of the search party for BLS, got smoozed and was a negative nancy for the rest of the movie until getting unsmoozed.

Shady:  Permanently depressed pony was permanently depressed, and also part of the search party for BLS. Later is part of the search for the flutter ponies with Megan.

Magic Star:  Part of the search party for BLS, seems to be the unofficial leader of the ponies.  Part of the search for the flutter ponies.  Gives away Dream Castle at the end of the movie.  Magic Star why.

Wind Whistler:  Part of the search for the flutter ponies, saved Megan, tons of dialogue.

North Star:  Retrieves Megan & siblings from the other side of the rainbow and helps evacuate the ponies onto the roof of PE as the smooze is coming.  Which isn't that much compared to the others in this set, but at the same time I can't think of any pegasi who had more prominence in the movie, aside from Wind Whistler.

[Taffeta]

Yep:

http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook/advert_movie.html

I guess this also proves how alien the word "movie" was to the UK in the 1980s xD.

I never went to see it though, and didn't know about it for a long time. (I was scared of cinemas as a kid, which may have been why)

Never did like the movie versions of Shady and Magic Star, though, which may also have added to my disinterest.

[Ponyland]

If Hasbro cared about that we'd also have had Heart Throb xD. Clearly Hasbro didn't care at all about orphaned baby ponies or confused kids this side of the pond xD.

At least we had a mummy for our baby Heart Throb in Sweden, from the Fable Ponies (and the baby got wings on her hearts too to look like her mum, I love that they changed her just because of that!). The UK baby Heart Throb has only hearts as symbol, just as the BBE counterpart. (who matches the SS Heart Throb mum )

I really wish they had made a Ribbon mum for the baby! Here in Sweden Fable pony Gusty is the natural mum for Baby Gusty as they where available at the same time. The Movie Stars came just a bit later though.
But I have always wondered why they decided to go with baby Ribbon and not baby Shady in the Play and Care set (if they now had to skip out on 2 characters)... 

[Taffeta]

Both versions of Baby Heart Throb came out here. I have picked up both from the UK, though no wings is more common. Baby was ilkustrated with wings in all UK related art. I guess it didn't matter to distributers since we had no mother pony...but she too was aleays winged hearted.

Baby Shady was a big miss though, being that she had the most developed comic persona of the six.

[Ponyland]

Both versions of Baby Heart Throb came out here. I have picked up both from the UK, though no wings is more common. Baby was ilkustrated with wings in all UK related art. I guess it didn't matter to distributers since we had no mother pony...but she too was aleays winged hearted.

Baby Shady was a big miss though, being that she had the most developed comic persona of the six.

I didn't know she was sold in UK as well! Never heard of it before, and I have never seen her on ebay from UK at all during these past 10 years that I have looked for her. It's always the other version. I have only seen her from Germany and Sweden, quite often too.

Could probably be that you got her as a very late batch then in a small quantity in the end of 1986 before they got discontinued. We got our set a bit later than you got them, they where available in the end of 1986 and beginning of 1987, and hasbro had changed her to the other version by then to match the mummy.
I think they must have done that just because we actually had the mummy both in Germany (as Italian ) and in Sweden. It probably didn't matter so much in UK as the fable ponies didn't get released there. 

[Taffeta]

Highly possible. We became a dumping ground for a lot of countries. It is more normal to find her without wings. There have just been some with. Though it is just as possible they were souvenirs brought back from holidays. I have found some odd ponies here and there are/were a lot of internayional based companies in my area. I picked up Himmelstanzer, Mimic, Diamond Dreams, Leaper, Sand Dollar, Glory, Moondancer, 2 Macau ponies, a clutch of Italian ponies, four So Soft ponies and other odd things between 1998 and 2001ish, so I think its fair to say things travelled!!!

I saw an auction last night for 'UK' baby Hopscotch. Annoyed pony geek is annoyed. You wonder why people don't twig that all these 'UK' ponies come out of countries other than the UK...or maybe they just don't know that the UK is not a collective term for all of Europe.

[Ponyland]

I saw an auction last night for 'UK' baby Hopscotch. Annoyed pony geek is annoyed. You wonder why people don't twig that all these 'UK' ponies come out of countries other than the UK...or maybe they just don't know that the UK is not a collective term for all of Europe.

Well, that's like calling all the ponies not sold in the US for "international" ponies (and kind of expect us europeans to do so as well).  Like if everything centers around the US range of ponies...
I think people just switch that label to UK pony as in "not sold in the US pony". I wish that they did some research though. They could at least say european baby pony, that way it wouldn't be wrong, just not specified what country.   

What probably happened is Hasbro UK sent the comics people a set of model sheets without pulling out Ribbon, Baby Shady, etc.   I have part of a packet, they look like this:

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The comics people, not having any idea which toys were actually sold in the UK, dutifully included all the ponies on the model sheets in their comics.  As to why Hasbro sent them, it might be as simple as someone at the office not thinking of the implications, ha ha!  The sheets I have were sent to Brazil and include the BBE babies and TE ponies, despite Brazil seemingly not having the ability to produce ponies with specialized eyes.  (At least, they never did . . .)

The VHS tape is using a piece of stock art that was sent out to various media outlets to advertise MLP: The Movie.

Ribbon being in the backcard story is more interesting, since the backcard stories were made by Hasbro.  It's possible that Ribbon was originally going to be one of the Movie Star ponies, but was replaced by a different pony.  Or it's possible that the person writing the backcard stories was not particularly involved in decisions with which products were released and, again, was simply given a set of model sheets that included Ribbon.  (Like, maybe the person writing the backcards did not work specifically for the MLP 'department', but might have been doing packaging for many of Hasbro's toylines.)

Very cute backcard story, it's much better than the US one.

I actually own the full folder of this line art reference (it's very cool) and features the full US range of ponies from this year. They where used for merchandise and advertising and other printings, and sent out to companies that Hasbro collaborated with.

I also have 2 others from other years.

[Taffeta]

I saw an auction last night for 'UK' baby Hopscotch. Annoyed pony geek is annoyed. You wonder why people don't twig that all these 'UK' ponies come out of countries other than the UK...or maybe they just don't know that the UK is not a collective term for all of Europe.

Well, that's like calling all the ponies not sold in the US for "international" ponies (and kind of expect us europeans to do so as well).  Like if everything centers around the US range of ponies...
I think people just switch that label to UK pony as in "not sold in the US pony". I wish that they did some research though. They could at least say european baby pony, that way it wouldn't be wrong, just not specified what country.   

It's sad when the attitudes of 1998 are still extant in the auctions of 2015.

I could say a lot about the reason these myths came to be, but I don't want to get in trouble with mods. Suffice it to say that it was a lot worse in the beginning...and at the very least MOST myths have now been squashed because there is a much more global community. That fact makes it all the more annoying when one surfaces, but it is a lot better  than it was.

I tend to feel that the term 'international' applies to ponies sold in more than one continent. Strawberry Fair, Tex, Baby Tic Tac Toe are all International ponies because they were sold internationally. I don't so much have a problem with the North American line being seen as important because it is an American toy and it was created by an American company. The only issue that there is less understanding for the way My Little Pony was sold in other places, and so you get people terming ponies sold in lots of countries as "US version", and so on.

I think we've still got a lot to do to really extricate different lines and I still feel there's not enough information about regarding pony distribution in Australia, New Zealand and that region of the world, so too often they get left out of discussion.

Part of it is really our responsibility as collectors, though. If we want our lines to be recognised and taken seriously, then we have to be willing to correct misconceptions when we see them, rather than just disliking them. "Actually, that's not a US pony, but was sold everywhere", "actually, that's not a UK pony, but was sold across Europe." "Actually, the proper set name is Movie Star, not NSS, or Play and Care Set, not NBBE". "Actually, it's spelled Liquorice" (that one is a minor bugbear of mine xD). I think the reason we don't do this as much as we ought to is because we don't want to feel like the officious busybodies constantly correcting or pulling up other collectors for things that aren't really their misconceptions but the fault of widespread misinformation which, for some, has been online longer than they have. It's also something that can't be achieved by the few, but has to be achieved by the many. The myths that have been dispelled were dispelled because of the sheer number of people pointing out they were wrong. It was never enough for one or two people to do it, even with proof, because the information sources refused to change their views. It took a serious effort to get the proper information out. Trouble is, now everyone's more focused on Nirvana, and that emphasis has been somewhat taken away.

Take accessories, for example. I can't identify my accessories because accessory variations in different places are not really taken into consideration on mainstream sites. Shooting star combs and flower brushes where the Rainbow Babies are concerned is one good example of this!

It's not a "US" "Europe" problem so much as a "lack of other options/information" problem in a lot of respects. I still feel very sad that so many UK collectors have abandoned the names from their childhood to conform to the North American standard, and that our pony years have been forced to conform with the ones set out in traditional North American classification, but that isn't the fault of American collectors or the American pony line itself. It's our fault for not succeeding in making clear the distinctions to a point where they are recognised and understood.

I don't suppose it will ever be changed completely. I've had the Scrapbook for 16 years now, and while I know people do use it, a lot of people also don't know that it exists, nor do they really care what the UK line is or isn't. They choose to go to US-based sites and therefore absorb only the information from that perspective (ie, this was the main line, and these were variations/deviations in other countries) as opposed to (this is a pony heritage, a pony history, and as valid as the North American line, just different). I get a bit twitchy when people refer to the European version of Twisty Tail or Baby Splashes as a "variant", since the term 'variant' is a matter of perspective, depending on where you grew up. European version - fine. Variant? Not so fine.

That is why you still see European collectors use terms like NSS and NBBE, even though we long since know those names are both insulting to the ponies and lines involved and not really correct. As a community we've been schooled to look at the American line as the norm and everything else as the Other. Unfortunately, I don't know how to change that.

On another note, I found some Hasbro UK terminology referring to labelling of early My Little Pony. The comic that has the contest for Snowflake, Gypsy etc refers to them all as Little Ponies (so not simply an Earth term) and the My Little Pony club 1987 refers to them as "the basic ones like..." going on to list the Movie Star ponies, and then other species (Mountain Boys, Flutters etc).

I don't really like 'basic' and it is used with a small b, not a large one, so it's not really a term. I think therefore that My Little Pony is the correct, if uninspiring, UK label for the 1986 and 1987 sets, even though it would make sense for them to have been "Pony Friends" or "Movie Star Ponies" as in other places.

[Ponyland]

I tend to feel that the term 'international' applies to ponies sold in more than one continent. Strawberry Fair, Tex, Baby Tic Tac Toe are all International ponies because they were sold internationally

It could be seen like that, and I would have liked the term describing a "worldwide" distributed pony ..Like  Lickety Split (I think almost countries got her). But the term tends to mostly be used on ponies that is exclusive to europe. Like the Pony Friends or your Gypsy character (probably because they are described like that on DV) And that makes me a little annoyed as it only is in the amercan perspective... I get a bit sad when Swedish collectors talk about our Cupcake and Truly, or CP Bowtie as an international pony. They are very national in the country that the pony got sold in

I think we've still got a lot to do to really extricate different lines and I still feel there's not enough information about regarding pony distribution in Australia, New Zealand and that region of the world, so too often they get left out of discussion.

Yes I would really like to include them more, and learn more about what was avaliable. I hope to collect advertising from there! I think it was "Toltoys" (?) that distributed over there (can't remember exactly, but it's on the back of the Birthflower Ponies).

Part of it is really our responsibility as collectors, though. If we want our lines to be recognised and taken seriously, then we have to be willing to correct misconceptions when we see them, rather than just disliking them.

It's a mission then! (As it has been for years)

Take accessories, for example. I can't identify my accessories because accessory variations in different places are not really taken into consideration on mainstream sites. Shooting star combs and flower brushes where the Rainbow Babies are concerned is one good example of this!

I hope to be of help about that in the future. I'm collecting all accessories and information about them that I come across.

On another note, I found some Hasbro UK terminology referring to labelling of early My Little Pony. The comic that has the contest for Snowflake, Gypsy etc refers to them all as Little Ponies (so not simply an Earth term) and the My Little Pony club 1987 refers to them as "the basic ones like..." going on to list the Movie Star ponies, and then other species (Mountain Boys, Flutters etc).

I don't really like 'basic' and it is used with a small b, not a large one, so it's not really a term. I think therefore that My Little Pony is the correct, if uninspiring, UK label for the 1986 and 1987 sets, even though it would make sense for them to have been "Pony Friends" or "Movie Star Ponies" as in other places

Basic ponies, original ponies, standard, little Ponies, earthly ponies . Non of them are actual set names, as the real set name is simply My Little Pony for them like the very first set of ponies. The rest are specially gimmiked ponies. But these labels indicates that there is a need to separate them and categorize them when refering to them.
Our advertising is refering to the Pony Friends as "standard ponies", which indicates that they are the basic supply of ponies with no special gimmick. Likewise with the earth pony set.

Thats why I was using it in the other discussion in the Nirvana forum, not to change the name of the set but maybe to find a way to categorize them, and how to talk easily about them among collectors.
In US the My Little Pony set is called Earth ponies, but with no such label on the card. Earth ponies doesn't really work on the set with Gypsy and Honeycomb though. Basic ponies, original ponies or standard ponies is a better way, it doesnt have to have large letters.

[Taffeta]

I tend to feel that the term 'international' applies to ponies sold in more than one continent. Strawberry Fair, Tex, Baby Tic Tac Toe are all International ponies because they were sold internationally

It could be seen like that, and I would have liked the term describing a "worldwide" distributed pony ..Like  Lickety Split (I think almost countries got her). But the term tends to mostly be used on ponies that is exclusive to europe. Like the Pony Friends or your Gypsy character (probably because they are described like that on DV)

Yes. I actually thought what would be really awesome would be if a site like the Wiki had a map of the globe, and on each pony's page, the countries where she/he was sold was coloured in, to indicate distribution. That would ultimately get rid of this whole "UK" "US" etc pony thing, plus, although it would take a lot of work to do, it would be really interesting to see.

Dream Valley. Gah. That site was the root cause of most myths - both those still in circulation, and those since dispelled. I would be less annoyed about it if I didn't know that the errors didn't get corrected because she actively refused to correct them, not because she couldn't or didn't know. At one point I did some rewriting for her, to help her out, and she used what I wrote, but later she reverted back to her original text. She always claimed to have no time to update or correct, but she always found time to come out on public lists to complain if anyone criticised her website.

I know a lot of people still like and respect DV. I'm not one of them, and I'm not ashamed to say it. I'm pretty sure the abuse I've had in the past over that opinion is probably worse than anything I'd get for saying it now, anyway I think it's very sad that Lavonia's site is no longer extant, because it was far superior in all regards and was actually set up in part to fix the accuracy black holes (not just for European ponies, but also those in North American release).

Yes I would really like to include them more, and learn more about what was avaliable. I hope to collect advertising from there! I think it was "Toltoys" (?) that distributed over there (can't remember exactly, but it's on the back of the Birthflower Ponies).

I've heard that before. Possibly from seeing info on the birthflowers, although I don't have any of them. Hrm.

It's a mission then! (As it has been for years)

No kidding. And it will probably never end.

I hope to be of help about that in the future. I'm collecting all accessories and information about them that I come across.

You should be careful making offers like that. You might find me sending you mass pictures of brushes and combs!

Thats why I was using it in the other discussion in the Nirvana forum, not to change the name of the set but maybe to find a way to categorize them, and how to talk easily about them among collectors.
In US the My Little Pony set is called Earth ponies, but with no such label on the card. Earth ponies doesn't really work on the set with Gypsy and Honeycomb though. Basic ponies, original ponies or standard ponies is a better way, it doesnt have to have large letters.

But, and I'm afraid I have to be very British on this - they weren't called anything here but My Little Pony, even when sets like the Movie Stars were in other places. To me, they have to be "My Little Pony" or I'm not being true to my pony heritage. I am fine with set plurality. My Little Pony 1986 is fine for me for Gypsy's set, since that was good enough for Hasbro. However, in Sweden, we're dealing with Pony Friends. Hopscotch is a Pony Friend there but not here. Just like Dancing Butterflies is a Party Pony here but a TAF pony in America. I see it as much the same thing. I don't want the UK line to be labelled by set-names used in other countries, because it's not authentic. While there is some provenance for the Movie Stars, based on the fact they were sold as movie ponies in at least one store here - there's absolutely nothing for the 1986 set, so My Little Pony 1986 it is

Sorry Won't budge

[hathorcat]

Its sad but I think unfortunately it just comes down to the fact the comics were licensed material and though there were attempts to link everything up they really were not always that concerned. All licensees were given the same material (as their contracts were with Hasbro US...no matter where they were selling) and it featured all the ponies that were out that year. Within the licensing documention it did list which countries would get those ponies but it meant the companies had access to the bibles for all characters being created that year. Unfortunately probably as boring as that

[Taffeta]

Its sad but I think unfortunately it just comes down to the fact the comics were licensed material

We're not really talking about the comic. That much I can understand, but the backcard story is the real issue for me. Hasbro UK did pay attention to what they were selling in places, because they changed the names of ponies in stories if they weren't sold here, as well as the names of Playsets to what they were licensed as in the UK.
Here's one good example (when compared with the US release story for the Perm Shoppe) that shows what I mean:

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Not only is Taffy's name substituted for Lollipop's, but the name used IS Lollipop, the licensed UK name for the pony released here, and the term Crimp & Curl Hair Salon is used throughout. Locket's name has also been removed and replaced by Milky Way, as the Hair Salon was here in the UK in 1988, when Locket was no longer on sale but Milky Way was. The North American story is the same story, but these details have been consciously altered for a British audience, based on the time of release and what was available here.

The same thing happens with Cascade's version of the Waterfall. While she and Sprinkles have the same story, the different releases have the correct pony name and edited artwork to match the set being released. Another attention to detail moment on the part of Hasbro UK, who paid attention to what they were selling and promoted it accordingly.

If they can do that with these stories, then why would they put in a pony that wasn't ever going to be sold here at all in a story they wrote from scratch FOR the UK market, and point out specifically that she was a unicorn (in a country where unicorns and pegasus ponies were in short supply at this point). We've no evidence for Ribbon being sold anywhere in Europe, as far as I know, so even a fable pony like happening can't be blamed.

The story includes Honeycomb, and so you would expect the unicorn to be Gypsy, since it's all marketing. This is the only pony box or backcard story I know of that features the name and species of a pony not sold here.

Those two things make it very unlikely they'd leave in Ribbon's name if they weren't planning at some point to release her. Let's not forget that Paradise's connection with the Estate in the fact file and her inclusion were assumed for a long time to be just storytelling, until the UK Hasbro catalogues came to light and the picture of Paradise with the Estate became common knowledge.

Just because we don't have the paper trail for Ribbon being in the planning stages doesn't mean she wasn't there. Megan and Sundance were 1986. Movie Star ponies were 1987. There's plenty of time in-between for them to shift around which ponies they want to release, and the fact that Ribbon is the only pony on the UK club material for 1987 that was not sold here also indicates that she was in planning but never materialised for whatever reason). The UK club material is pretty good about NOT including ponies that weren't sold here, but including those who were sold here as exclusives. It's much more accurate than the comics because part of its brief was to advertise new stuff to members (in the backpage of their magazines they promote newly released items and hold competitions to win those ponies). In that context, Ribbon is a bit out of place.

I have less evidence for Lofty. In her case, you may be right, as the only connection seems to be the comic and story related features.