The Issue I Have With the Big Brother Ponies

[elish2]

I recognize that there was sexism in these toys - you'd have to be fairly far gone to not see it. But I can't take action against a toy/tv show that came out 25 years ago. Toys and kids entertainment should have come a long way by now, and they haven't. That's the part that gets me the most - not the actions of the past but the lack of change in the present. So I feel that focusing on current problems, of which there are tons, is a more productive use of my time personally. And as an adult pony collector I like my big brother toys just fine.

^^yep

I just want to say also that nobody said that you could not discuss sexism...some of us are just coming from a different point of view.  If want to discuss sexism then you will have to allow the other side to talk too.

I do not think I am being dismissive about it. I personally do not think any guy is better than me just because he is a guy, so to me it is really more a matter of what you choose to do about yourself. If you choose to be affected by it, then you are. If you choose to feel that these toys downplayed who you are as a woman, then they will. Only you can choose to be offended. If you feel that someone or something or some company is being sexist and you disagree with it, then the best way is to vote with your dollar in a sense... Meaning don't patronize that place...I guess in this case don't buy the BBs...

Everyone is going to feel differently about this sort of thing. Some will feel it was bad and others not so much, but like NoDivision said, not much we can do about these particular toys now.

[Lilja]

The reason sexism keeps being brought up is because of people like many of you here who consistently try to dismiss it. Again, just read the responses here. "I find this portrayal harmful." "No, it's not; I turned out fine; get over it; stop talking about it."

Not noticing sexism doesn't mean you weren't affected by it, not feeling personally affected doesn't mean others aren't, and that's precisely why people who are aware of it keep trying to bring it into view. It's not even a matter of not consciously thinking of gendered stereotypes, but subconscious influences that affect how we interact with each other. Just take the studies that show hiring disparities between men and women applicants, even when potential employers were given identical made-up resumes with only the genders changed. No one even realized they were doing it. All these little things we're surrounded by add up even if by themselves they seem harmless.

So, yes, this is important. Sure, MLP is just one thing from the past and can't itself be changed, but talking about it is part of understanding the larger trends in society. It's not just about MLP, it's about what we can learn, how we can make things better and to do that means understanding how we got here -what underlies what we do and how we see things.

I would say this: if you don't want to talk about sexism, then OK, you don't have to, but don't go to places where it si being talked about and tell others they can't either.

I just want to say thank you! What you are saying is very important. I think blind nostalgia, that we keep recreating the worlds we remember and cherish from our childhoods (without thinking very critically about the problematic aspects) is a big reason we've made so little progress in gender equality. That's why these things are important to discuss, even if it happened a long time ago, and even if "there are worse things out there".

[Strawberry Swirl]

The reason sexism keeps being brought up is because of people like many of you here who consistently try to dismiss it. Again, just read the responses here. "I find this portrayal harmful." "No, it's not; I turned out fine; get over it; stop talking about it."

Not noticing sexism doesn't mean you weren't affected by it, not feeling personally affected doesn't mean others aren't, and that's precisely why people who are aware of it keep trying to bring it into view. It's not even a matter of not consciously thinking of gendered stereotypes, but subconscious influences that affect how we interact with each other. Just take the studies that show hiring disparities between men and women applicants, even when potential employers were given identical made-up resumes with only the genders changed. No one even realized they were doing it. All these little things we're surrounded by add up even if by themselves they seem harmless.

So, yes, this is important. Sure, MLP is just one thing from the past and can't itself be changed, but talking about it is part of understanding the larger trends in society. It's not just about MLP, it's about what we can learn, how we can make things better and to do that means understanding how we got here -what underlies what we do and how we see things.

I would say this: if you don't want to talk about sexism, then OK, you don't have to, but don't go to places where it si being talked about and tell others they can't either.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. This is *exactly* what I was trying to say and do.

[Whippycorn]

I also agree completely with Elisto.

[KarentheUnicorn]

I'm just trying to figure out who said we can't talk about it? Did I miss someones post that said how dare you talk about it?

[Strawberry Swirl]

I'm just trying to figure out who said we can't talk about it? Did I miss someones post that said how dare you talk about it?

No one said that exactly. (I hope not, anyway. :<)

It's more of an implied thing to them, I think.

[NoDivision]

I'm just trying to figure out who said we can't talk about it? Did I miss someones post that said how dare you talk about it?

Kind of wondered this too. I don't see how other people sharing their personal opinions is even implying that people can't or shouldn't talk about it. This is a discussion, I don't feel like anyone has been shutting down anyone else. I know I don't disagree with most of what's been said here, so I hope no one interprets anything I've said in that manner.

[Shiromisa]

So, I've stayed out of this discussion thus far, but I had to jump in and say that I really, really dislike the sentiment that "Only you can choose to be offended." I wish I could choose not to be offended (in general, I'm not touching this issue in particular). My life would be a whole lot easier if I could choose not to care about sexism. But, well, here we are.

[hathorcat]

I'm just trying to figure out who said we can't talk about it? Did I miss someones post that said how dare you talk about it?

I am about to say it...



Seriously - gender roles are always a hot topic unfortunately. While I am all for discussing them, I think the key thing to remember here is not to patronise or accuse someone with a different opinion from you of being wrong in their own opinion. And that is from those who have a problem with the cartoon and its perceived sexism and those who don't have a problem. Go ahead...say whatever you like from your own opinion...but lets respect everyone else's and understand they are equally in their own right to have them.

[SeashellnBubbles]

Personally I'm more offended by those damned Wal*Mart and Target ads about how getting the perfect gifts cooking the food decorating the tree is all up to mom and she needs to be some kind of superhero to her kids at the same time AND look perfect while doing it.

Oh, and lets not forget the cough medicine ad where dad's too inept to even brush his daughter's hair implying that mom needs to get better faster because she has her whole family to take care of so she can't have any time to take care of herself! These ads are out RIGHT NOW...who cares about what happened 20+ years ago when this crap is still allowed on TV?

[Strawberry Swirl]

LOL. That's definitely a problem, too.

Gender roles are quite confusing. They say women are weak but have you tried to cook meat?
You build some pretty good arm muscles doing that. Sloppy joes are the staple of my exercise resume.

[Tirac]

Personally I'm more offended by those damned Wal*Mart and Target ads about how getting the perfect gifts cooking the food decorating the tree is all up to mom and she needs to be some kind of superhero to her kids at the same time AND look perfect while doing it.

Oh, and lets not forget the cough medicine ad where dad's too inept to even brush his daughter's hair implying that mom needs to get better faster because she has her whole family to take care of so she can't have any time to take care of herself! These ads are out RIGHT NOW...who cares about what happened 20+ years ago when this crap is still allowed on TV?

oh my goodness. This is just awful. My dad left my mom recently and she's had to be a parent all by herself to my younger brother without any other parental figure and that means she's taken it upon herself to work herself to exhaustion. That add strikes a nerve with me simply because it's an unfair assumption that the mother can do absolutely everything. ESPECIALLY on a holiday. Are mothers not allowed to relax and enjoy a stress-free Christmas?

and that second one just makes me feel like everyone thinks I'd be an incompetent parent. My dad sucked at his parental duties, but that doesn't mean all dads would. ;n; I've met some amazing guys who want to raise a family and I'm pretty sure they'd do an amazing job.

I'm sorry to go off-topic but I was greatly offended by both those advertisements. Seeing a single episode of a kid's TV show use the "damsels in distress" trope in my opinion pales in comparison to when things like this are on public TV. I think the best way to end gender discrimination is to remove the gender stereotypes completely.

[Rosencrantz]

The reason sexism keeps being brought up is because of people like many of you here who consistently try to dismiss it. Again, just read the responses here. "I find this portrayal harmful." "No, it's not; I turned out fine; get over it; stop talking about it."

Not noticing sexism doesn't mean you weren't affected by it, not feeling personally affected doesn't mean others aren't, and that's precisely why people who are aware of it keep trying to bring it into view. It's not even a matter of not consciously thinking of gendered stereotypes, but subconscious influences that affect how we interact with each other. Just take the studies that show hiring disparities between men and women applicants, even when potential employers were given identical made-up resumes with only the genders changed. No one even realized they were doing it. All these little things we're surrounded by add up even if by themselves they seem harmless.

So, yes, this is important. Sure, MLP is just one thing from the past and can't itself be changed, but talking about it is part of understanding the larger trends in society. It's not just about MLP, it's about what we can learn, how we can make things better and to do that means understanding how we got here -what underlies what we do and how we see things.

I would say this: if you don't want to talk about sexism, then OK, you don't have to, but don't go to places where it si being talked about and tell others they can't either.

Oh, I like this post very much. Thank you for making this post. My headache is starting to go away now.

[nollilols]

I recognize that there was sexism in these toys - you'd have to be fairly far gone to not see it.

See, I find that as offensive and dismissive as presumbly I and others have been accused of being about sexism. I DON'T see how therewas sexism in that episode with the Big Brothers  - as someone else already pointed out, the BBs saved the girls but the children saved the BBs first, so what, does the hierarchy go children at the top then men then women? No! That's why I don't see how the sexism argument is valid. As someone (I think that same person) said - chances are if the BBs had been in more episodes chances are everyone would be saving everyone else regardless of gender.

As for the toys being categorised according to gender, they were categorised regularly due to their appearance. Categorisation inherently requires discrimination - I don't see why saying 'this is a set of boys' is any worse than saying 'this is a set of children' or 'this is a set of ponies with weird jewels for eyes - they have a physical characteristic which differs from other ponies'. And if anyone says 'saying this is a set of boys is different' - well, then you're presupposing the thing you're trying to argue is inherent in the segregation.

All of the above I had literally never considered before this thread, and while everyone is entitled to their opinions, I do not think my above opinion makes me 'fairly far gone'  - whatever that even means.

[NoDivision]

I said the toys, not the show.  Having a set of boy ponies is not the issue, per se, but boy ponies having 'boy' symbols and girl ponies having 'girl' symbols is, to me, pretty unmistakably sexist. That's something that the toy industry as a whole has a VERY hard time getting over. Boys like baseball. Girls like flowers. Boys like trucks. Girls like butterflies. Boys are firefighters. Girls are nurses. Maybe my wording was not the best, but I do think that that kind of gender stereotyping is pretty hard to miss and pretty important to recognize.