Gift Payments and Seller Fee Etiquette

[TinyShinyUnique]

I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.

Yeah, not to point at anyone or anything - but I actually thought everyone was doing so and that it was normal? This thread proved me very wrong.

[partypony566]

I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.

Yeah, not to point at anyone or anything - but I actually thought everyone was doing so and that it was normal? This thread proved me very wrong.

Everyone is doing it Tiny, that's my point. I can't believe not more people are coming in this thread to say they do ask for gift payment.

[Navi]

If you're just picking something up for someone as a favor, I can see why sending payment as a gift would be fine - you (probably) know this person somewhat, they're helping you out.

It's when a pony is being sold for a clear profit (heck, some sell for $100+) that I think asking for payment as a gift is odd. For that much money, I don't want to pay the Paypal fees too, and if something goes wrong, that's a lot of money to have no Paypal protection on.

[lindsayrose1985]

An interesting thought for international sellers....if someone paid for a pony with the gift option, what would you declare it on the postage label, goods or gift? See a gift item has a higher threshold before import tax comes in to action. Would you return the favour so to speak? To help prevent "fee's" at either end?

I will pay for a pony by gift or goods option. If by gift I do expect a traceable postage option with insurance for loss. It is only a few pence on the most part. For international purchases I do prefer goods option, just as the cheaper methods don't have tracking, but I'm covered by paypal. 
I think you need to judge your situation and seller. For trusted sellers I'll gladly send as a gift as to be honest if you buy from them often you get discounts and extra gifts you didn't expect or pay for. ..no one moans about those little extras I see!!

[tulagirl]

I just wanted to mention it doesn't matter what user agreement you had when you signed on with paypal. You agree to each revision of that agreement and its current agreement is the same for everyone because of that.  So, saying that since your agreement doesn't look like the current agreement doesn't really matter because they have the right to change it and its our responsibility as papal customers to read the revisions.  Especially when it involves policies on how we are allowed to use their site when receiving money for sales or gifts.

[Shiromisa]

I just wanted to mention it doesn't matter what user agreement you had when you signed on with paypal. You agree to each revision of that agreement and its current agreement is the same for everyone because of that.  So, saying that since your agreement doesn't look like the current agreement doesn't really matter because they have the right to change it and its our responsibility as papal customers to read the revisions.  Especially when it involves policies on how we are allowed to use their site when receiving money for sales or gifts.

That's what I thought. After all, they send those emails every six months or so, "Okay we changed some stuff, do you like it? Hahaha too bad if you keep using our service we're going to assume you agree. Sucker."

[Em_L._Pea_Customs]

I never expect a buyer to pay my paypal fees and I would not want payment sent as a gift.  I just roll those fees into my sales price.  That is the price I have to pay for ensuring a safe online payment method and the ease of having money deposited right into my account.  It is so worth it compared to the days of waiting on a money order (sometimes for weeks) and having to go cash it.  What a pain that was!

I have had a few sellers ask for payment by gift after the fact and I will oblige if under $20 or so.  If it is over that, I tell them that I would rather pay/split the fees with them, so we are both protected.  I usually avoid a purchase altogether from a seller that mentions it upfront on their sales thread. 

ETA:  There are times when it is ALWAYS proper to pay someone's fees.  Such as if they are doing you a favor by picking something up for you that isn't sold in your area or in a lopsided trade.  Case by case, ya know?

[MikeysGrrrl]

I never expect a buyer to pay my paypal fees and I would not want payment sent as a gift.  I just roll those fees into my sales price.  That is the price I have to pay for ensuring a safe online payment method and the ease of having money deposited right into my account.  It is so worth it compared to the days of waiting on a money order (sometimes for weeks) and having to go cash it.  What a pain that was!

I have had a few sellers ask for payment by gift after the fact and I will oblige if under $20 or so.  If it is over that, I tell them that I would rather pay/split the fees with them, so we are both protected.  I usually avoid a purchase altogether from a seller that mentions it upfront on their sales thread. 

ETA:  There are times when it is ALWAYS proper to pay someone's fees.  Such as if they are doing you a favor by picking something up for you that isn't sold in your area or in a lopsided trade.  Case by case, ya know?

I agree, if I'm getting someone to pick something up for me, of course I should cover the fees, otherwise their partially paying for my item, which is unfair.

[Stormy31685]

There is a lot more involved for some sellers than others when it comes to Paypal and their fees...

Long ago, in the days of Yore, paypal did not charge a fee to recipients of a payment when the sender used existing funds, and the receiver of the money had a "personal" account.  So, most of the time, collectors who bought and traded far far more than they sold, never really encountered a fee, and when they did, it actually was customary for the buyer to pay the fees since they wanted to use credit cards.

See, once money has entered into paypal, one way or another, Paypal has already taken their fee from it, so there is no reason to continue taking money that had already been paid for.

Fast-Forwarding to today (and more recently), Paypal (and eBay) got into some hefty scrutiny by the US (and likely other countries') Governments.  The IRS got involved, and they now require Paypal to report everything you receive through paypal as a payment for goods and services directly to the IRS.  You are not required to claim it on your taxes however, if it does not meet the value/transaction requirements.

When this change occurred, Paypal stopped differentiating between a "personal" and "merchant" account, allowing users to send and receive money freely from any source for a fee - always for a fee.

The only way to avoid letting the IRS see extra money you are getting now, is when these payments are sent as a "gift."  Because money gifts up to a certain amount are not taxable.

So, as a seller, I personally will always politely ask buyers to send a payment as a gift (and I generally offer an extra discount for doing so) if they are comfortable, and if not, it does not matter, and I personally don't ask for extra money to cover fees.

I think when it comes to this whole topic, the etiquette is very debatable, because not every collector is a big-time seller, and therefore is more concerned about the dollar amount coming off a pony because there is no profit involved.  Also, as I mentioned before, there have been a LOT of changes to Paypal, so there is now a blend of ideals between newer collectors and oldies.

When it comes to asking for fees, I think that is up to the seller.  If you go to Walmart and use your Credit Card to buy something (no matter how cheap) you are never required to pay a fee to use your card rather than cash.  BUT if you go to the mom-and-pop corner store, you will likely see a sign somewhere that posts a minimum purchase amount required to use a credit card.  That is because it costs both Walmart AND the Mom-and-pop a fee to accept credit cards.  The difference is, Walmart can more easily absorb such costs with a higher sales volume.

[kezrob23]

Our smaller stores here will charge a surcharge to pay by eftpos, whilst some of the larger business will charge a surcharge for paying by credit card. And yes many have a minimum spend amount. Yes I have asked people to pay me by gift here, but I have been either getting stuff for people or selling things on at cost. I know I, and I hope most if not all here would still honor a missing item whether paid by gift or not. I don't know how anyone could feel good within themselves if they didn't.

[Sunshine]

Personally, with my feedback here at the Arena now... if I sell items, I sometimes will ask, "If you can send as a gift, great! If not, no big deal!" - and put the option out there. I never ever DEMAND anyone pays as a gift unless it's something like, they are paying an EXACT shipping fee, or like was mentionde, something from a store where it's an EXACT price. if they want to pay as a "goods" for those things, I use websites to find the Paypal fees for them, and every single person I've dealt with has either been fine with that or offered themselves to either pay as a gift or pay the fees without me even asking... but, I like to make deals on ponies and stuff, so I may discount a group of ponies for someone, I don't think it's terrible of me to "put it out there" that a gift payment would be my preference, but they certainly don't have to do it!

[ThriftyPony]

This is something that really buns my biscuits. Paypal has feels because it is a money handling SERVICE. If you a selling something (outside of picking something up at a store as a favor for a pony who doesn't have the item available to them and selling at the same cost you paid), and you use Paypal as a means of accepting payment, then you need to pay the fees for said service, per Paypal policies. It should just be par for the course of selling. I understand a lot of people do it here, so when a seller asks me to send payment as a gift, I will, but it still makes me nervous. I don't like lying about things like that. If that extra cost bugs you, up your prices a little.

I get almost all my etsy payments through Paypal and I do not ask my customers to pay any of those fees. I am paying for a service that makes accepting online payments much easier, so that's how I see it. A lot people don't want to send a MO or cash anymore, so the fees are worth keeping customers.

[Oneleo1]

There is a lot more involved for some sellers than others when it comes to Paypal and their fees...

Long ago, in the days of Yore, paypal did not charge a fee to recipients of a payment when the sender used existing funds, and the receiver of the money had a "personal" account.  So, most of the time, collectors who bought and traded far far more than they sold, never really encountered a fee, and when they did, it actually was customary for the buyer to pay the fees since they wanted to use credit cards.

See, once money has entered into paypal, one way or another, Paypal has already taken their fee from it, so there is no reason to continue taking money that had already been paid for.

Fast-Forwarding to today (and more recently), Paypal (and eBay) got into some hefty scrutiny by the US (and likely other countries') Governments.  The IRS got involved, and they now require Paypal to report everything you receive through paypal as a payment for goods and services directly to the IRS.  You are not required to claim it on your taxes however, if it does not meet the value/transaction requirements.

When this change occurred, Paypal stopped differentiating between a "personal" and "merchant" account, allowing users to send and receive money freely from any source for a fee - always for a fee.

The only way to avoid letting the IRS see extra money you are getting now, is when these payments are sent as a "gift."  Because money gifts up to a certain amount are not taxable.

So, as a seller, I personally will always politely ask buyers to send a payment as a gift (and I generally offer an extra discount for doing so) if they are comfortable, and if not, it does not matter, and I personally don't ask for extra money to cover fees.

I think when it comes to this whole topic, the etiquette is very debatable, because not every collector is a big-time seller, and therefore is more concerned about the dollar amount coming off a pony because there is no profit involved.  Also, as I mentioned before, there have been a LOT of changes to Paypal, so there is now a blend of ideals between newer collectors and oldies.

When it comes to asking for fees, I think that is up to the seller.  If you go to Walmart and use your Credit Card to buy something (no matter how cheap) you are never required to pay a fee to use your card rather than cash.  BUT if you go to the mom-and-pop corner store, you will likely see a sign somewhere that posts a minimum purchase amount required to use a credit card.  That is because it costs both Walmart AND the Mom-and-pop a fee to accept credit cards.  The difference is, Walmart can more easily absorb such costs with a higher sales volume.

Very well stated!

[Sunshine]

There is a lot more involved for some sellers than others when it comes to Paypal and their fees...

Long ago, in the days of Yore, paypal did not charge a fee to recipients of a payment when the sender used existing funds, and the receiver of the money had a "personal" account.  So, most of the time, collectors who bought and traded far far more than they sold, never really encountered a fee, and when they did, it actually was customary for the buyer to pay the fees since they wanted to use credit cards.

See, once money has entered into paypal, one way or another, Paypal has already taken their fee from it, so there is no reason to continue taking money that had already been paid for.

Fast-Forwarding to today (and more recently), Paypal (and eBay) got into some hefty scrutiny by the US (and likely other countries') Governments.  The IRS got involved, and they now require Paypal to report everything you receive through paypal as a payment for goods and services directly to the IRS.  You are not required to claim it on your taxes however, if it does not meet the value/transaction requirements.

When this change occurred, Paypal stopped differentiating between a "personal" and "merchant" account, allowing users to send and receive money freely from any source for a fee - always for a fee.

The only way to avoid letting the IRS see extra money you are getting now, is when these payments are sent as a "gift."  Because money gifts up to a certain amount are not taxable.

So, as a seller, I personally will always politely ask buyers to send a payment as a gift (and I generally offer an extra discount for doing so) if they are comfortable, and if not, it does not matter, and I personally don't ask for extra money to cover fees.

I think when it comes to this whole topic, the etiquette is very debatable, because not every collector is a big-time seller, and therefore is more concerned about the dollar amount coming off a pony because there is no profit involved.  Also, as I mentioned before, there have been a LOT of changes to Paypal, so there is now a blend of ideals between newer collectors and oldies.

When it comes to asking for fees, I think that is up to the seller.  If you go to Walmart and use your Credit Card to buy something (no matter how cheap) you are never required to pay a fee to use your card rather than cash.  BUT if you go to the mom-and-pop corner store, you will likely see a sign somewhere that posts a minimum purchase amount required to use a credit card.  That is because it costs both Walmart AND the Mom-and-pop a fee to accept credit cards.  The difference is, Walmart can more easily absorb such costs with a higher sales volume.

Very well stated!

I second that

[Tiffymh1fan]

This thread is going in circles.

Paypal has made it a lot easier than cashing those M.O. or dealing with bounced checks & so on. Im grateful for that. Im taking a nap now. This is a lot of reading for fees