Any vintage / antique doll collectors?

[MiRaja]

I think I posted a similar topic two years ago or so, but I thought I'd poke around again. . .

But yeah, I was wondering if there were any other's, and by vintage / antique I mean anything pre-1960's.

I collect mainly composition dolls from the 1930's to 1940's, like Effanbee Anne Shirley's, Horsman Sweethearts and some Alexander dolls like Wendy and such.  My other big doll collection are Japanese composition dolls of Geisha, Maiko, Tayuu, Oiran and other female figures, most of which are pre-1930.  I just splurged on a Ishou Bijin ( Ishou being a type of doll that wears fabric clothes, and lifelike clothes versus a doll with molded clothing like Hakata being solid clay-porcelain or a kimekomi with fabric molded over the frame, and Bijin meaning beautiful woman ) for $88usd direct from Kyoto that's from the 1890's. 

Honestly, my pony collection is the cheapest of all my collections, not when I have kimono and dolls that are worth several thousand dollars. . . :shame:   Not that I've paid that, no, I'm a opportunist to say the least, but I have easily spent upwards of nearly a grand on some of them. . . 

Unfortunately there are not a lot of places where I can find those who are similarly interested.  There are sites like DoA, but, that's all BJD and I have little interest in it but for old antique ball joints from Germany and Japan( which do not really count to them, from what I've read in their rules).  Other boards are either dead or not too much activity, or else people not really my age. . .  Goodness, I used to do doll shows and I'd be the youngest seller, but I'd be selling the oldest of all the dolls! 

I've also done some work with Cissy dolls by Alexander, but more on restringing and fixing them, especially for my mother's collection! 

But yes, I'd love to talk with some people interested in the sorts of dolls I am, or even just helping anyone whose come into possession of an older doll, both in restoration or even identification.  Collecting can be hard when a doll has NO maker's marks!

Strangely enough, Hasbro actually started out mostly as a small knicknack and doll maker in the 1930's.  They produced sewing and mannequin doll kits, which were made with composition dolls.  Interestingly enough, Hasbro's products were still considered somewhat cheap and shoddy even then.  I have a hatbox shaped doll case from the 1940's that I keep dolly accessories in it, and it's stamped Hasbro!

[GothMummy]

Oh hello I have a collection of dolls, and around 30 are 1920s/30s English and German composition dolls. I also have about 10 older bisque and composition dolls (Armand Marseille mostly). I am not actively collection the older dolls, due to running out of storage. I worry about humidity etc with the composition dolls.

 I had a large collection of hard plastic dolls (Pedigree, Rosebud etc) but have not bought any for a couple of years as I have been upset by loosing a few of my hard plastic Pedigree dolls as they have succumbed to the Hard Plastic Doll Disease. One was an absolute prize of my collection, who I paid a lot of money for, in all original clothes and her face just caved in and went all vinegary/acidy smelling


I am interested in them though, and am restoring and re-dressing the collection that I have, and resisting the temptation to add to it.

I do still pick up vintage vinyl dolls when I see them cheap, I am very fond of Tiny Tears.

I was recently looking for a doll forum or something because I was was looking at my old German soft bodied doll with composition head and hands. She needs a new body, its all rotted and the stuffing has worn out. I was googling something like "how to restuff a soft bodied doll" and ended up clicking on a link that took me to a doll forum....... but NOT the kind of doll forum I was expecting. Thats all Im going to say!! I knew life size adult dolls existed I guess but..... i was a bit shocked to stumble across that when just trying to restore my poor 1930s baby doll!!

I would be very interested to talk to other vintage doll collectors

edited to say: I know what you mean about being the youngest collector, maybe not so much now (Im 35) but before I had kids when I had more space cash and time i used to go to doll fairs and be the youngest by many decades. And I have not found any active forums either. I have been collecting since I was about 5! But then my parents used to have antique shops and go to lots of auctions, and they would let me have any doll that came from a house clearance etc that was not too valuable....and in the 80s you could still pick up very old dolls cheaply at car boots etc.

[MiRaja]

It's so nice to meet you! 

Yes, yes, yes! 

I have a few Armand Marseille's of myself, as well as a Dollar Princess along with some misc German dolls.  I have one that is nearly 40inches tall, but they are currently in ( climate controlled ) storage.  That's for when I buy a house. 

I know exactly how you feel about hard plastic.  I'm guessing you must be in the UK with Pedigree and Rosebud?  My mother really loves the 8inch Miss Rosebuds which are off the Vogue Ginny molds.  I bought her a couple when I was over in '11.  But yes, I've had a lot of dolls I have sold because of the hard plastic disease.  I've never had any collapse or anything or completely bust down ( but I have heard of it! ) Pedigree used a different plastic than most American doll companies, but both had issues.  I had two different Mme Alexander Wendy's in the first line of hardplastic, and both of them had turned green, and they smell of sour milk and they powdered.  I had to literally give them away.  I only have a Sweet Violet ( Mme Alexander with the Cissy face and the ball jointed bodies ) and two of the original Sweet Sues with pug noses.  The three of them have all done well, Sweet Violet has never seen abuse, and the first batch of hard plastic that American Character produced seems superior to anything else produce.  I've never seen the first line of Sweet Sue's powder or stink, but the later ones definitely do.  As do R&B's plastics if put through abuse. . . 

You mention a German soft body?  Do you mean kid leather bodies?  I know how to repair those!  Look up some local antique stores and ask if they have kid leather gloves, and you can buy those and patch them via that.  Or is she one of the sort of Bye-lo babies?  My mother had one with the celluloid body and the cloth-cotton body.  I can best suggest taking the body apart, and making a pattern from that.  As to the stuff, you can use a sawdust core wrapped with cotton, or just straight up cotton, but a sawdust core provides a nice weightiness to the doll. 

But yes, definitely, I came from the sort of family like your's.  My family was fairly poor, so we did flea markets and thrifting, which is really how I got into MLP when I was a kid, because it had pretty much come and gone by the time I was a kid.  I'm really hardly an 80's baby, as it was the 90's before I remembered anything, so I know almost ALL of my ponies came 2nd hand.  I know I got Sweet Talker, and I'm almost completely for certain she was my ONLY new pony! 

[katrine2309]

Hi you guys!
I don't have many old dolls but they fascinate me very much - I don't know any names or anything, but when I was a kid my grand-aunt gave me an old celluloid doll. I thought she looked old and difficult to play with at the time but now I kind of like her. The only thing is that she has gotten some marks on her face (scuff marks kind a) and she is super loose in her arms and legs. I guess she would need some re-stringing!

I would love to know more about her - as the only thing I do know is that she is a celluloid doll.

I would love to see some pictures of your doll collections though - I am a huge fan of old and antique stuff (my whole family is!) but there isn't much to find on the doll front around here.

[Radiance]

Hello! I have some vintage dolls; a Madame Alexander ballerina from 1979, a couple of Kenner Blythes and many Dawn dolls and their accessories. Nothing earlier than that, though I'd love to have some. I don't know enough about them really. I don't know much about pricing or care of antique dolls. Are there any books or websites that a total newbie could get some good first time buyer tips, and how to care for your antique dolls? I really like traditional Japanese dolls, I think the term for them is ningyo but I'm not sure.

I'd love to see pics of your dolls! I bet they're lovely!

[GazeboMouse]

I have hundreds of dolls, mainly vintage Cabbage Patch, Maori and black baby dolls, but the only pre 1960s ones I have are a 1930s Composition Maori girl, a 1930s little Bisque black boy, a 1930s composition body/hard plastic head Pedigree black bent limbed smaller baby, and a Pedigree Rastus. My oldest Japanese baby boy is 1960s I think.

[MiRaja]

Katrina; there are endless amounts of celluloid dolls that were produced, and even more of them were unmarked, so finding info can be very hard.  Given their fragility as well makes it more so!

Renee, ( Hah, another Renee, that's my name too! ) Your ballerina might be an Elise, or else a Wendy, what size is she?  If she's an 8 inch doll, she's likely a Wendy whereas Elise ( of that era ) should be about 16inches, but I'm somewhat foggy on Alexander's that late.  My cut off really is about when Cissy and Elise got their makeovers because they started using cheaper plastics. 

There are a lot of books out, and books will be your best source for information on a lot of these dolls, as well as time and a lot of it to study.  You pick up information from those around you, and it's traded here and there.  I have a lady I see every so often if I have a problem or issue and the woman is a walking encyclopedia on dolls for the most part, but I've even managed to bring in a couple of dolls that she has never seen or seen anything like.  ( This doll in particular: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27996131@N07/5797551243/in/set-72157626761135989 with more info on her )

Most of the pricing given out on books is moot these days and it's use your best judgment and ebay completed sales.  If you're selling at a show or brick and mortar, find one on ebay and add 20% is usually what I do. 

For Mme Alexander, this is a good book to start with:  http://www.amazon.com/Madame-Alexander-American-Legend-Campbell/dp/0942620224

But there are probably a dozen more just on Madame Alexander alone, and some of the out of print ones are actually the best, but they're very expensive.  I do have several of them, and I lucked out on most of them for the prices I paid. 

Here's a few more on Amazon, but I'd get them on ebay, they're likely cheaper, especially lightly used:
http://www.amazon.com/Dolls-Accessories-1950s-Schiffer-Collectors/dp/0764322427/ref=pd_sim_b_10

And this one is really good, but it's also really general: http://www.collectorbookstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=OOP-CB-2004-1574323784-X3&gclid=CKHh1Iy4grgCFYVj7Aod3F4AZA  I used to use it for a starting point in figuring out what I had and then consulting my other books for narrowing things down.  But I'm at the point I only need such references for dresses and accessories. 

And for some of my dolls ( and some of the ones I used to have! )
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27996131@N07/sets/72157632126463596/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27996131@N07/sets/72157626761135989/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27996131@N07/sets/72157626679507164/

[kaskurgi]

My mom use to collect dolls and probably knows the ones you speak of in your first post but she has vision issues now so I will read the post to her and see if she has any and reply back My mom was born in 1941 so she may have acquired some from her mother/grandmother back then and have some of her own. I don't know what shape they would be in probably not the best unfortunately. I do remember having a really old doll I would play with when I was young and she was in bad shape then...she had a cloth/linen body part of her legs arms and head were some kind of plastic not the normal plastic. She had eyes that would open and shut and dirty blonde hair. I will ask her about that one in particular.

[GothMummy]

Miraja - I love american character dolls, they are expensive here in the UK but I have managed to pick up a gorgeous small Horseman Baby and I have an Effanbee girl. I have always been after a composition Shirley Temple doll, but they seem sooooo expensive. 

Actually, I have a large composition character doll that an old lady who i used to visit left me when she died. She told me the doll was canadian and 1920s. I know nothing about the doll and have never been able to identify her - do you know about canadian dolls and  would you have a go if i sent you a picture??

In terms of pricing, I have seen the doll market collapse in the UK in recent years - I would say dolls are at a third of the value they were 15 years ago. I think its because the UK is in serious recession and people dont have much money for luxuries like collecting, or perhaps its not fashionable anymore and is seen as hoarding behavior (the UK is full of reality TV shows about hoarders!)

Its great to hear from other vintage doll collectors
Yes, I am in the UK  

[Radiance]

MiRaja, your dolls are lovely! I added you as a contact, I hope you don't mind
My Mme Alexander is one of the 16in dolls, I'll get a pic of her if you like. My mom got her for me when I was born and over the years I've lost her box and wrist tag (I think she had one). But she's hot her original clothes and all and I've never messed with her hair. I played with her a lot but was always very careful with her.

[MiRaja]

Renee-chan, of course not!  I haven't updated flickr in forever, but I definitely need to!

GothMummy, I'm not terribly familiar with Canadian dolls of that time, but from my knowledge there weren't a lot of companies.  She could likely be a Reliable, which used molds from other companies, like Ideal, who was the company that made Shirley Temple dolls, and as of such, there's also Reliable Shirley Temples, which are a bit cheaper than the Ideal brand.  Composition is a fickle material, and I believe that's why there weren't a lot of Canadian companies that made it because of the difference in climate from the Northeast, which is where most of all American dolls were made in those years.  The change from composition to plastic was because of a really wet year where Mme Alexander had to scramble to put dolls on the shelves when all of their composition refused to set and molded and mildewed!

But yes, post a picture and I'll see what I can do to identify her.  I'm fairly good on composition dolls as my favorite dolls to collect are completely unmarked, and those would be the composition Sweet Sues ( they really weren't Sweet Sues, but Amer. Char. went on to use the same mold to make Sue when they transitioned over to plastic for the first year ) and Horsman Sweethearts, which are exceptionally rare.  I now have all of them in each size, 28inch, 24, and 21inch, though my 24 inch is in the middle of restoration and is a total basket case.  I need to get photos up of them as they're absolutely some of the most exquisite dolls ever produced.  And of more unmarked dolls, I have ONE of the Alexander Portrait dolls in composition.  I only snagged her because she was unmarked and listed in an odd place, otherwise I would've never been able to afford her as she's worth several thousand dollars. . . 

American Character dolls are not terribly expensive anymore, and really only in super mint condition are they worth anything.  The doll market has gone out on several sections here in the US now.  Cissy's and Alexander dolls have maintained their value, but that's because the buyers for them are generally upper middle class, despite my mother having a collection of them, but then, she did manage to buy two NM ( their only issues were the bands in their necks were broke, 30sec fix ) Cissies for $1300, when they were worth twice that in a lot.  But Tiny Tears and Amer Char?  Nope.  I used to sell LOTS of those, get $200 a piece because I sold really nice ones, the hands down vinyls and now I'd get like $100 for a doll I could get $300 for before.  Effanbee has suffered too, except for the American Children / Dewees Cochran dolls, and if you have the early Dydees you might still get money for them.  Rare stuff still holds its value, which makes it hard from me, as my collecting is all for the rare these days.  I believe the Vogue Ginny / Miss Rosebud market is fairly strong, but it's taken some hits too. 

I've had a couple Shirley's come through my hands, the best way to buy them is to find them.  I found one in a pawn shop for $15, and yes, the composition one.  She had a lot of issues, more stuff than I could handle, so I sent her to another restorer and had her completely done for $200 or so, and gave her to my mother for Mother's Day.  $215 wasn't a bad price for one! 

We have lots of shows about hoarders too, but I'm a person who values her space, I'm actually like the anti-hoarder as I'll just start chucking things away if they get in my way.  If I don't have space, I don't buy, if I want, then I sell.   

[GothMummy]

Oh great, well, I will get her out of the display cabinet over the weekend (its tricky - they are up high!) and post a photo. I really should photograph my collection! 

I value my space too. I dont want to feel hemmed in by dolls and ponies! So pony/doll access is limited to strict areas in my house!

I am very lucky and have a very doll-obsessed daughter (shes only 2) and Im absolutely LOVING playing with her  Baby Born and my old Zapf Creation dolls! (my german vinyl dolls from the 80s)
x

[katrine2309]

Hmm, ok - I guess that my old celluloid is difficult to both identify and value then No worries, I'll enjoy her just fine nevertheless! She is a cutie, and my mom actually have the same doll as well as an African-American one. She is beautiful too! My mom used to play with these when she was a kid, so that is really what makes me smile when I see them. But I have to say, it would have been fun knowing more about them

K.

[GothMummy]

Katrine - I have a small collection of celluloid dolls and I have struggled to find out much about them unless they are marked. There were a lot made in the UK during their small period of manufacture.

x

[MiRaja]

I might be able to point you in the right direction, Katrine, but not without a photo.  While I admitted it might be hard to track her down, it's down right impossible without a photo. 

If you told me you had a hard plastic doll, stamped AC on the back of her head, at about 18inches tall, with open and close eyes, I could likely tell you that you had a Sweet Sue, but with unmarked dolls, I really need to see the face to least get a sniff!