Miss Representation Documentary

[Aadra310]

The combination of this doc and the Killing Us Softly doc posted in another thread has made me see how really bad what most people are exposed to is.

Yah!  I'm so glad a few people watched Killing Us Softly.  I'm going to go check out this Miss Representation doc, too!

[Roccoriel]

I'll have to check these out (Miss Representation and Killing Us Softly).  I watched a documentary that Anita Sarkeesian at Feminist Frequency made about video games last week, and it was very interesting, too.  She's making a whole series about this.  So if anyone is looking for something else to watch, her documentary is great as well!

[DappleCafe]

I'm not joining some random site right now, free or not, so I'll have to pass. Thanks for sharing though.

You don't join anything. Where did you get that idea?
 It's just free documentaries online. No signing up, nothing.

That's odd..... When I clicked the "close ad and watch as a free user" button and then clicked the play button, it put a little window over it that said something about certain countries not allowing the video so I had to sign up for an account so they'd know where I was? Weird. I'll try it again tomorrow then.

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. I'm in the states so maybe that doesn't show up here. Head's up guys.
hopefully it won't show up again.

Post Merge: March 28, 2013, 11:05:52 AM

The only part of the feminist movement that bothers me is the (small) part that pushes the idea that the only way to be a feminist is to adopt more masculine habits and that liking traditionally feminine things makes one a bad feminist...

Wardah, I do not know a single active feminist who thinks like this. This negative idea of feminists is one of the myths perpetuated by the anti-feminist media discussed in the documentary - along with 'feminists hate men', 'feminists are hairy lesbians', 'feminists want to dominate men', 'feminists don't like children or families' etc. Take me, I am an ARDENT feminist, but I love ponies and baking, I'd love to get married and have a child and I almost never wear trousers. 

I think it's pretty common for us to sort of not notice. I mean, we've been raised in a society that's one sided. I find myself not noticing and then I'll see something and BOOM, I notice and it's just...whoa.

The combination of this doc and the Killing Us Softly doc posted in another thread has made me see how really bad what most people are exposed to is. I think I have been largely shielded from the worst of it because I don't have a t.v. and I don't buy women's (or indeed lads') magazines. I think those are the main culprits.

In this documentary I was particularly shocked about the way the US media talk about female politicians. I know the women's magazines and tabloid newspapers here sometimes focus on female politicians dress etc but to talk about wether you want to **** them on national t.v.?! 

Agreed on all counts!

Post Merge: March 28, 2013, 11:07:09 AM

I'll have to check these out (Miss Representation and Killing Us Softly).  I watched a documentary that Anita Sarkeesian at Feminist Frequency made about video games last week, and it was very interesting, too.  She's making a whole series about this.  So if anyone is looking for something else to watch, her documentary is great as well!

Love her work. She did a great video about the straw hat feminism IE all the negative stereotypes people associate with feminists that aren't true.


Post Merge: March 28, 2013, 11:08:00 AM

Part of the worst part of this vicious cycle is that women even listen to "society and its ideals" as it lies to them through marketing, sales, and trends. Then everyone thinks that there IS a problem and behaves like it.  I really, really would like every one, men and women, to stop caring about the floppy bits and get on with life.   You honestly do not need to consume whatever the marketers are telling you to spend money on.  You don't need makeup or nice clothes or perfume to be a "woman".   You actually don't NEED anything to BE anything! 

Want to never wear makeup?  Okay.  Want to look like a clown?  Okay.  Want to wear pants?  Okay.  Want to wear a dress?  Okay.  Want to be a doctor?  Okay.  Want to be a welder?  Okay.  Want to be a nursery school teacher?  Okay.  It shouldn't matter who is doing what ....

IMHO I think society should be discussing the implications of integrating 50% of the population into the existing workforce .  It was a great idea when certain countries were under duress of global war but since then, it has caused a high cost of living ensuring the inflation increases steadily, prices skyrocket, and now it is virtually impossible to sustain a household on less than two incomes.  Plus "think of the children"!  :-p

*runs from thread ducking fakies*

By the looks of it I don't think you'll have to duck any fakies here

[Vintergatan]

My husband and i watched Killing us Softly and we often watch Feminist Frequency, which I highly recommend ^^

[Whippycorn]

IMHO I think society should be discussing the implications of integrating 50% of the population into the existing workforce .  It was a great idea when certain countries were under duress of global war but since then, it has caused a high cost of living ensuring the inflation increases steadily, prices skyrocket, and now it is virtually impossible to sustain a household on less than two incomes.  Plus "think of the children"!  :-p *runs from thread ducking fakies*

The increase in women working may have contributed to higher unemployment statistics, but that's partly because previously women were not even taken into the unemployment count. A housewife's work wasn't costed and a woman at home was considered neither 'unemployed' nor earning. Now she's just considered unemployed.

A major reason for there being less jobs around in our countries is a shift away from production economies, these jobs were all exported overseas to places like China where they can pay them much less. The same with uber mechanisation of farming etc. Where not that long ago entire villages were employed in the harvest, now a couple of men can do it alone. And the profits of these savings do not get fed back into the community, they get fed into off-shore bank accounts and another holiday villa or three.

The nature of the system we live in (one in which the ONLY aim is to maximise profit margins for companies and shareholders) means that shifts like this are certain to happen. If you can cut out the cost of paying a person a decent wage you will replace them with cheaper labour/ a machine. For example, the main reason why many women took over clerking jobs etc was because bosses could pay them less than a man for the same job!

The cost of living rose largely because of companies taking advantage of (some) families having two incomes and hiking prices (whilst still cutting their costs) and advertising like heck to get us to buy more stuff. This very quickly fed back into more women needing to work (usually in the lowest paying jobs) just to supplement their partner's income. (And they still had to then go home and do the same unpaid work of home-keeping!).

The situation is made worse in countries without a national health service or free child care (so now women have to pay for someone to do something that they would not get paid for doing themselves) and the fact is that many women are still paid so poorly they cannot afford to even consider childcare. I read an interesting article yesterday pointing out than high flying 'feminist' women focusing on how they can get a better work-life balance are ignoring the plight of the vast majority of women today- who don't have the luxury of even contemplating their work-life balance. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/03/201332510121757700.html

The problem here is not women entering the workforce, it is the cheapening of all our labour and the commodification of our basic needs. If men and women were all paid a decent living wage for the work they do and the government did their basic duty by us to provide us with healthcare, housing and education, then people (of all classes) could afford to work less hours and have a better work-life balance. I don't think this is going to happen while our lives are dominated by the principle of the maximisation of profit for the few to the cost of everyone else.

The same fights that are important to feminism are important to the wellbeing of us all - education! health! housing! and a decent living wage for everyone! And we need to demand this from our governments, because the money is there - here's a great little video everyone should watch: http://www.storyofstuff.org/movies-all/story-of-broke/

And now I'm off to work.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

The problem here is not women entering the workforce, it is the cheapening of all our labour and the commodification of our basic needs. If men and women were all paid a decent living wage for the work they do and the government did their basic duty by us to provide us with healthcare, housing and education, then people (of all classes) could afford to work less hours and have a better work-life balance. I don't think this is going to happen while our lives are dominated by the principle of the maximisation of profit for the few to the cost of everyone else.

Oh thank goodness you understand!!!  A kindred soul!  *bounces* 

[Wardah]

The only part of the feminist movement that bothers me is the (small) part that pushes the idea that the only way to be a feminist is to adopt more masculine habits and that liking traditionally feminine things makes one a bad feminist...

Wardah, I do not know a single active feminist who thinks like this. This negative idea of feminists is one of the myths perpetuated by the anti-feminist media discussed in the documentary - along with 'feminists hate men', 'feminists are hairy lesbians', 'feminists want to dominate men', 'feminists don't like children or families' etc. Take me, I am an ARDENT feminist, but I love ponies and baking, I'd love to get married and have a child and I almost never wear trousers. 

I know most feminists are thankfully not like this but I have seen some "feminist" blogs that seem to hold that point of view and worse are trying to ingrain that point of view on their daughter. These kind of blogs paint a bad picture of feminism to the point that I wonder why we even call it feminism anymore. If what we want is equality why can't we just say we are equalists?

[DappleCafe]

This was on my dash today. I would say it's a good representation of what usually happens.

    Feminists: Hey. We'd like for women to be treated as equals.

    Society: Oh sure. You want "equality" but then you expect men to open the door and pay for meals, is that it? That's not equality! That's special treatment!

    Feminists: Um, no not really. You don't have to open the door and pay for our meals. We can do that ourselves.

    Society: *gasp* What? You don't want men to open doors for you? Why do you hate nice people? No wonder chivalry is dead! You'd yell at a man for just being polite and opening the door for you?

    Feminists: No! We're just saying you don't have to do it just because we're women!

    Society: And while we're at it, how come you don't protect male victims of abuse and rape, huh?

    Feminists: Actually, we think it's really terrible that men are forced to stay quiet about their abuse because they're worried about not being taken seriously. It's this Alpha Male myth that causes it. Men are abused and raped and they're not helped because men are supposed to be tough and able to handle it. This also goes for men not being able to express emotions.

    Society: Oh, so you just want men to be a bunch of pansies then, huh? You hate men for wanting to be strong LIKE NATURE INTENDED THEM TO BE. You'll be sorry when you end up married to some weak, simpering fool who likes to talk about his "feelings"!

    Society: Also, you can't have equal rights because women aren't aggressive enough to want higher pay and stuff.

    Feminists: HOW ABOUT YOU GO **** AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON?

    Society: Jesus, calm down. No need to be so aggressive.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Sadly it's even simpler than that...     It's about equal opportunities for everyone.  When you have 5 people apply for a job and they all have families, then you add 10 people who may not have dependents...  that means that 5 families suffer if the job opportunity is no longer available.  Doesn't matter which gender is applying. 

And yes, the methods by which we manufacture are largely to blame for this - and we sacrifice quality.  This is why people pay so much for luxury goods, because they are "handcrafted" and the artists actually spend some time with their piece.    Sadly most people would rather stop at Walmart for a $1 tshirt rather than pay $25 for it being made down the street by the neighbors.  Until we break the cycle of being disposable and start acting like "this is the only pair of jeans I have", this devaluation will not cease and economics will not improve. 

Society just needs to respect itself and each other more, that's all!  :-p

[DappleCafe]

Sadly it's even simpler than that...     It's about equal opportunities for everyone.  When you have 5 people apply for a job and they all have families, then you add 10 people who may not have dependents...  that means that 5 families suffer if the job opportunity is no longer available.  Doesn't matter which gender is applying. 

And yes, the methods by which we manufacture are largely to blame for this - and we sacrifice quality.  This is why people pay so much for luxury goods, because they are "handcrafted" and the artists actually spend some time with their piece.    Sadly most people would rather stop at Walmart for a $1 tshirt rather than pay $25 for it being made down the street by the neighbors.  Until we break the cycle of being disposable and start acting like "this is the only pair of jeans I have", this devaluation will not cease and economics will not improve. 

Society just needs to respect itself and each other more, that's all!  :-p

I would say it's less simple than that.
Not everyone can afford to pay that $25 and a lot of that has to do with the distribution of wealth and opportunity in the states.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I would say it's less simple than that.
Not everyone can afford to pay that $25 and a lot of that has to do with the distribution of wealth and opportunity in the states.

But we have to break the cycle somewhere and go without until we can find a better source.  Where's that cut-off point going to be? 

[brightberry]

Hmm... I would actually prefer a quality $25 shirt to 5 flimsy $5 flimsy shirts... you know those shirts that forever look wrinkled no matter how much you iron them after the first wash? Ugh.

I am very much a feminist.  I think all women should be and all sons, husbands, fathers and brothers should be too. 

[DappleCafe]

I would say it's less simple than that.
Not everyone can afford to pay that $25 and a lot of that has to do with the distribution of wealth and opportunity in the states.

But we have to break the cycle somewhere and go without until we can find a better source.  Where's that cut-off point going to be?

No I get the method behind it but if you don't have the money how can you buy something for $25? The system needs serious reworking too.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

No I get the method behind it but if you don't have the money how can you buy something for $25? The system needs serious reworking too.

You take very good care of the shirt you already have, and mend it when it rips.  When you've saved aside enough money to buy a new shirt, you invest $25 into the shirt.  If you don't have the $25... you wait. 

God knows as a child I had to wait and NOT have for most of my childhood - when I started a job, I was able to buy things for myself if I needed them.  For the preceding 15 years, I was used to mending clothes and not having accessories or toys, repairing my shoes with duct tape and going without snacks.  If I can do it, so can everyone else... 

I still wear the well-made clothing I obtained in high school and that was 13-15 years ago!  And yes, I mend it!  I only buy clothing from the thrift store when something can't be mended anymore. 

I never see people fixing things - I see people buying new items from a BULK bin!  Until we stop manufacturing for the sake ofhaving full shelves, no matter what the product, we will have these problems of "not enough to go around".

[Flickerswift]

Sadly it's even simpler than that...     It's about equal opportunities for everyone.  When you have 5 people apply for a job and they all have families, then you add 10 people who may not have dependents...  that means that 5 families suffer if the job opportunity is no longer available.  Doesn't matter which gender is applying. 

And yes, the methods by which we manufacture are largely to blame for this - and we sacrifice quality.  This is why people pay so much for luxury goods, because they are "handcrafted" and the artists actually spend some time with their piece.    Sadly most people would rather stop at Walmart for a $1 tshirt rather than pay $25 for it being made down the street by the neighbors.  Until we break the cycle of being disposable and start acting like "this is the only pair of jeans I have", this devaluation will not cease and economics will not improve. 

Society just needs to respect itself and each other more, that's all!  :-p

So people with dependents have more rights to a job than people without? So just because someone decided to have kids without getting a stable job first, someone else without a family who may plan on having one later shouldn't get it and be allowed to plan their future? That makes no sense. Having dependents should not factor into whether or not an employer highers you at all. Job qualification, competency, and productivity should always be what makes or breaks an employee, not a family.