MLP and gender roles

[Wardah]

I think Spike plays the platonic male friend the most. He has been in G1, too. Of course, he's a kid, so he's kind of the team's baby brother.

It bugs me how bronies assume that girls can't watch scary stuff. Midnight Castle was pretty creepy (especially how Tirac threatened to kill Spike, and poor Ember's terrified "What's happening to my friends?!), and there are plenty of girl-aimed things that have creepy elements. Such as Sailor Moon (especially the original Japanese version). It just seems like bronies are sometimes desperate to deny that they are watching a little girls' show, and claiming that things aimed at girls are bad. Kind of mean, if you ask me. 

Nice strawman.

Please tell me where bronies actually acknowledge the show is for little girls, and don't try to claim the scary stuff is for men. Please. Really. I'd like some hope for the fandom that have been pretty cruel to younger fans. Or am I just a bad person becasue I didn't say positive things about bronies?

SPIDER (sorry a spider walked across my monitor and scared me)

He isn't saying that there aren't SOME bronies that think like that, just that it is bad that you are painting all of them with such a broad brush. Despite saying about "assimilating people into the herd" they are not a Borg-like hive mind. Especially since some bronies are girls.

[DazzleKitty]

I haven't read through the whole thread so bear with me, please.

But, I feel that Firefly's Adventure is one of the most non-sexist MLP special that really deviated from the whole girly cartoon thing. It had a surprisingly dark storyline and some very non-girly characters in it. It was one of the best productions, if you ask me.

And so WHAT if it's girly? I hate when guys feel "too good" to watch something girly. No one ever chastises a girl for liking a guys show as it's totally acceptable. But when someone makes fun of a guy for enjoying a more feminine activity, it heavily implies that being female is bad and that women are inferior.

I heard some places down south in the States still make prisoners pick up trash along the roadside whilst making the men wear womens clothing. If it were a bunch of women in mens apparel it wouldn't even matter. But apparently if you wear pink or a skirt it just makes you inferior and laughable.

What's sad is that this is a totally accept mindset in many cultures and even women will find humor in a guy who is feminine. Basically, when they do this, they are reinforcing the belief that they are the inferior sex and it's laughable that anyone would want to be like them!
And do to social conditioning, I have even laughed at some of these too. :/

So what if a cartoon is feminine? So what if a cartoon is masculine? If you enjoy it, then WATCH IT.

And I'm sorry, but I refuse to look at brony commentary anymore. It's one of those rare things on the internet these days that actually makes me mad, LOL. I mean....I don't need to look at websites that make my blood pressure go up!

[Stuntmang]

I haven't read through the whole thread so bear with me, please.

But, I feel that Firefly's Adventure is one of the most non-sexist MLP special that really deviated from the whole girly cartoon thing. It had a surprisingly dark storyline and some very non-girly characters in it. It was one of the best productions, if you ask me.

And so WHAT if it's girly? I hate when guys feel "too good" to watch something girly. No one ever chastises a girl for liking a guys show as it's totally acceptable. But when someone makes fun of a guy for enjoying a more feminine activity, it heavily implies that being female is bad and that women are inferior.

I heard some places down south in the States still make prisoners pick up trash along the roadside whilst making the men wear womens clothing. If it were a bunch of women in mens apparel it wouldn't even matter. But apparently if you wear pink or a skirt it just makes you inferior and laughable.

What's sad is that this is a totally accept mindset in many cultures and even women will find humor in a guy who is feminine. Basically, when they do this, they are reinforcing the belief that they are the inferior sex and it's laughable that anyone would want to be like them!
And do to social conditioning, I have even laughed at some of these too. :/

So what if a cartoon is feminine? So what if a cartoon is masculine? If you enjoy it, then WATCH IT.

THANK
YOU
I'm tired of all the (naughty word)s that think sexism isn't a problem anymore, because it is still a complete and total problem.

[Bee-chan]

Keep in mind that bronies are a fandom that is ridiculously into overanalyzing or bending interpretations or just making stuff up so it'll make sense the way they want it.
If they want something to be something it isn't, then there will be no effort spared until everyone submits to it.

Never was such a true statement made.

I have to agree completely.

[hyenacub]

I think I might have to bow out of this conversation.  :c  Anyway...take care all! 

[Snapdragon]

BRB, laughing forever at how My Little pony is "sexism against men." And Bronies thinking their own fandom is so perfect and un-sexist that they need to look to older generations to find sexism? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Threads like these make me fear for the future of the world.

[Al-1701]

I also think we need to separate good girly from bad girly.

Good girly is when a primarily female cast does things girls normally do.  I see nothing wrong watching a show were the cast occasionally goes to the salon or doing things a normal person would do on their free time.  Let them do what they want to do with the valleys between the plots.

Bad girly is when a primarily female cast is a bunch of brainless ninnies and do inane things.  Girls don't care about serious goings on would rather obsess frivolity.  Nothing truly dangerous or scary can happen because girls don't like that.  G3 was headed down this slippery slope.

I also don't like shows where they have to constantly emasculate the local male population to make the female characters look better.  That's sexism against men.

[Snapdragon]

I also don't like shows where they have to constantly emasculate the local male population to make the female characters look better.  That's sexism against men.

Because you know what the biggest issue in today's culture (popular and otherwise) is? Sexism against men. There was such a long period of time where men couldn't vote, and they got paid less than women, and ...

Oh, wait.

[Taxel]

I also don't like shows where they have to constantly emasculate the local male population to make the female characters look better.  That's sexism against men.

Because you know what the biggest issue in today's culture (popular and otherwise) is? Sexism against men. There was such a long period of time where men couldn't vote, and they got paid less than women, and ...

Oh, wait.

You are amazing.

[Al-1701]

An eye for an eye tends to leave everyone blind.

I'm talking about making the males woefully stupid, petty, vain, there to be an irritant, and in general ineffective as characters and even living beings.  Basically, they're there as a strawman.  Though, I hate strawmen in shows in general (even strawman villains) so I don't like it the other way around either or within genders.

[Sunset]

Ok, I can see it is getting a little heated in here.  Let's all try to keep the discussion level headed and be respectful of each other's opinions even if we don't agree with them.  It's good to hear were other people are coming from but not if we start bashing each other.


Thanks!

[LadyMoondancer]

Well, I understand the frustration over only showing dumb male characters.

At the same time, I understand why "girls cartoons" sometimes keep male characters at a distance.  It's because as soon as the male characters are part of the group proper, it's really hard to keep from falling into the same gender roles that they're trying to break the characters out of.

Case in point:  Big Macintosh.   I like Big Mac.  He is a stalwart and reliable fellow.  But I have seen so many polls about "Who should Big Mac be with?" and "Which filly should he date?"   Even the guy whose main personality trait is "standing there saying nothing" gets "automatically" paired up with the female ponies (because heaven forbid a guy should hang out with girls and not date one of  them) so can you imagine what the reaction would be if there was a male pony who was actually part of the group "for real"?  It would be nothing but people speculating on who he would "end up with" 24/7.

That's what I think, anyway.

I am sure this is one of the reason why, in the past, male characters who hung around the ponies were underage and of a different species (G1 Spike, Danny, G3 Spike, G4 Spike).   G4 Spike does have a crush on Rarity, but it's pretty clearly one-sided and not going anywhere.  (I see it as the kind of crush little boys have on their teacher, where they think they will marry her after they grow up.)


Edit:  I guess one way to avoid this would be to go the Will & Grace route and have the guy pony be gay, but that's awkward too, because it sort of seems to imply "you will 'turn gay' if you are friends with girls", doesn't it?   Not to mention that I just don't think television audiences are ready for that yet, sad to say.

[Al-1701]

People are shipping the mane six with each other even though they're all mares.

They could go the brother and sister route to justify him being part of the group.  They're twins and are always there for each other.  They could even be the nucleus of the group that forms.

[LadyMoondancer]

Yeah, some people ship the main six.  But a whole lot more people would be shipping if there were a guy in the group.   And as things stand, the writers are never tempted to or able to ship because they know it's "off the table." 


It's not just the shipping, though, it's also falling into "binding" gender roles.  Example:  G1.  On the whole, fairly progressive show that showed adventuresome female characters fighting their own fights.


UNTIL the episode featuring the Big Brothers came along.  Suddenly every adult mare, literally every single one, became a damsel in distress who had to be rescued by the big, strong boy ponies.  It annoys me to this day.  Like, really?   They couldn't have something kidnap half the Big Brothers and half the female ponies and have them work together?



It's not that the writers back then were bad people who were against women's rights;  it's that our society trained them, trains everybody, to think certain ways about "proper" ways for women and men (or their pony equivalents) to interact.   And that's hard to overcome.  And having all female characters in the main cast is one way to avoid that, to the extent that it can be avoided.

[Pythia]

I also don't like shows where they have to constantly emasculate the local male population to make the female characters look better.  That's sexism against men.

Because you know what the biggest issue in today's culture (popular and otherwise) is? Sexism against men. There was such a long period of time where men couldn't vote, and they got paid less than women, and ...

Oh, wait.

<3