@MJSNEIFER, we will just have to disagree on that, since there's literally nothing in G4, including its G1 references, that I personally would find nostalgic or even consider a proper shout out to G1. Frankly, I'd be happier if G4 had left G1 alone and not tried to piggyback its ideas from time to time. It came over to me more as laziness on the part of the writers not being able to come up with their own ideas than a nod to G1 - most especially and recently in that horrible comic whatever it was where the writers clearly had no clue about G1 and just threw it in there for whatever reason.

It's like the Jem movie. Unnecessary.

...There are a bunch of videos about wrecking 1980s nostalgia by insisting on forcing them into reboots and reinventing them for modern audiences. G4 is actually not the worst offender in this category compared to some of the others, but because that section of the G4 fandom tried so very hard to overwrite existing pony stuff with their own and were so hostile about it, it makes it hard to appreciate older gen references in the way that perhaps they were intended.

Again it probably comes down to the disgusting behaviour of that section of bronies. Although I think there's also a weariness from those of us who actually grew up with some of these 1980s classics that there are simply too many attempts to engage 'nostalgia' or 'retro' ideas by rewriting old stuff into a new and shiny format for the modern age.

But none of this means your story is invalid, or that you are wrong. It's simply that people have different perceptions on this based on their own preferences and opinions.

That's it exactly; we all have different ideas of what is nostalgic, so I respect your view, and I can see you respect mine, despite it not matching yours.  For me, G4 is nostalgic, for you it's not... I respect that.

But yeah, I do agree that G4 itself didn't do G1/G3 shout outs well.  I personally would have much rather they'd done what I was talking about, and given some actual nostalgic shout outs to the previous generations in a kind of "made by fans, for the fans" kind of thing... I actually thought that's what they were doing in Season 1 and Season 2, but I think I was just seeing what I wanted to see.  Around Season 4 when they actually included G1 and G3 stuff, it was basically new things with the same name... which I guess is fine, as it's a new generation, but it would have been nice for them to be close to the originals... for me anyway (if you'd rather they'd not even done that, I respect that.)

But yeah, maybe they weren't trying to be nostalgic for G1-G3, but it would have been nice (IMO) if they did, and that's what I'd have done.  Pretty much every time they have done a G1-G3 thing they haven't really tried to remind us of the original version... this was obvious to me when the Breezies and Tirek were included, and I was disappointed that they weren't at least vaguely similar to the originals in at a "shout out" kind of way - they didn't have to be, but I'd have liked them to have been.

It is a shame that those kind of bronies tainted the idea of it... if I could have done more to stop them, I would have done.  I myself have no interest with any of my "reboots" of "updating things for the modern age" - that is not the purpose of reboots for me, so that is not my intention.

But you are indeed right to say that it all depends on our own perceptions and opinions, so like I say, I do respect yours, and I'm thankful your were respectful towards mine.  So yeah, agreeing to disagree is fine. 

I think it's a weird thing to be ...is offended the right word? by someone calling something they grew up with different from what you grew up with. I say symbol, because that's what they were called in my gen. I don't mind cutie mark, I just don't use it unless I'm talking about G4 (I still say symbol for G3).

As others have said, it's mostly because of how some bronies have imposed G4 stuff on things, and made their generation out to be right/superior  and I do get what they mean by this – I have no idea if bronies have literally insisted that people call G1 and G2 symbols cutie marks or anything, but I can get that being annoying if they do.  It is like when bronies actually complain when pre-G4 ponies say phrases like “everybody”, as if it's some undeniable fact that any version of MLP that doesn't say phrases like “everypony” is automatically inferior (which it's not), despite the fact that they likely don't care when G4 ponies themselves fail to obey this rule (this annoys me too, and I love the term “everypony”.)

Not all of us (myself and other bronies) do this, but enough of us have done it for it to be annoying, and for people like me who have a more innocent agender need to explain ourselves further.

My personal hatred - and it is hate - of cutie mark is not really the term itself. I mean, there are a lot of silly pony terms out there. But the association between the G4 version of cutie mark and the irrepressable urge of a section of G4 fans to impose their 'lore' on older generations without any respect or regard for how those older gens worked.

I didn't bother about cutie mark at all in G3, even though I thought it a silly name. I literally only started hating it because of the way that section of G4 fans tried to redefine everything pony through FIM lenses without bothering to understand what came before was different, or accepting it for what it was.

In short, all the words I hate about G4, I hate because of G4 fans behaving like numpties. There are plenty of stupid words in G1 as well, after all. And even if it makes me wince, I'm only likely to comment on someone calling a G1 symbol a CM if they're also trying to force G4 lore on G1 at the same time.

Going back to symbol, because it's not an official term for any generation, I find it a useful neutral term across all generations. It really refers to the marking on the pony toy, rather than the wider story behind them imo.

Yeah, that's pretty much it...  Like I say, I have no idea if other bronies have done this, but I understand the reaction if they have – this is probably why I caused controversy when I tried to explain what I was doing with my fanseries before, but I hope I can one day explain it correctly.

To make an attempt of it now; when I say I am using the term cutie mark for G1/G2 ponies (and obeying G4 cutie mark rules for them), it is not in anyway to impose G4 lore on pre-G4 stuff, I am only doing it because it fits the narrative of the fanseries itself; my fanseries is set in Equestria, so it mostly follows the rules of that place – it is not because G4 is superior, as it's not, it is as good or as bad or as any generation (if I wanted to make my favorite generation superior, I'd be having every generation following G3 rules.) 

The pre-G4 ponies who appear in the fanseries are not literal crossovers from that generation, but are simply adaptations of those ponies in a G4 world (purely because the show is set in G4's world), so they have to use terms like cutie marks, and have to have earned them via talent, because it makes no narrative sense for them to have done anything different – if I had been writing a fanseries set in G1's world, but still included G4 ponies in it, I would have changed the rules for them to fit them better in G1's world.

I hope people understand that I am not trying to impose G4, regardless of what those bronies do, it is just that the narrative takes place in Equestria, so Equestrian terminology and logic will be mostly used, though I am going to use pre-G4 stuff if it fits the narrative, or I can work it in as a shout out (I aim to create a nostalgic feel for all generations, or at least the generations up to G4, even with it being in a G4 world... hopefully I'll explain this better when I explain the fanseries itself.)

But yeah, that's probably what went wrong last time, maybe I didn't specify that it was for fanon only and that I'm not trying to actually impose G4 stuff onto pre-G4 worlds, it just fits in with the narrative here.  Whatever those types of bronies do, I am not trying to do that, just trying to create my own story as I (and my friend/co-writer) envision it.

It's not that I'm offended by it, I just think cutie mark sounds overbearingly stupid. In the same way that belly badge for care bears sounds overbearingly stupid.

What I am offended by is people using that stupid term for ponies that came before G3. Because of their awful, condescending attitudes towards everything before G4 in general.

"You people who grew up with those stupid girly generations, don't know your butt from a hole in the ground. So you have to defer to my expertise." Which to them means that G1 and G2 ponies have cutie marks, Tales is G2, and that MLP only became adventurous during FiM.

 It's ret-conning and ret-conners are usually both ignorant and arrogant. I find them aggravating no matter what the subject is, because they stick their fingers in their ears and won't listen.

If they had not taken such a belligerent attitude I wouldn't be as twitchy about it, and could happily ignore it, as I did during the G3 era.

I feel the same way about “belly badge” to be honest, at least to some extent (at the very least, it's not what I would have called it) so I see where you're coming from... yet for me, I can look at that and think “at least MLP used something like cutie mark, which doesn't sound stupid to me personally (and I heard the term “belly badge” first)... I dunno... I guess it's just an opinion thing and how one takes things... like some phrases can sound embarrassing to one person, but not to another (which I respect.)

But yeah, I understand the hate if there are bronies who do what you are describing, and I hate the attitude you talk about when they disrespect pre-G4  (when G4 is what motivated me to check out and respect pre-G4, which is one of the reasons I am writing the way I am...) but yeah, I hate the condescending view toward pre-G4 too, so my intentions are definitely not that, and I hope that will show.

Yeah, I get what you're saying about retcon, but it can go either way... I mean, my fanseries technically retcons G4 itself (and it's the only generation it does, as it is set on G4's world, everything else is an adaptation), and even then it's not a retcon, just a fanmade version – think of it as a flashy way of me playing with the toys, and creating a story.  The other versions, including the canon versions exist, and I'm not even trying to pretend that I affect them.

I hope I was able to explain it better this time, but I do agree that if people are actually trying to enforce it onto pre-G4 like that, they shouldn't do.  As I say, this is not my personal intention, but I can understand if it sounds like that, due to what some bronies have done before me... I am not like that, I love the previous generations too much to do that, and wouldn't have even included them in the fanseries if I had no respect for them at all.

I do intend to do a proper thread explaining this one day.

I hope so personally as I love how G4 made it part of the storyline.  I'd actually like the to clear up the confusion that G4 brought on itself (though this may have been the fandoms fault) such as the idea that it means that "you're only good at one thing" which I could tell was never the case, so they didn't really need to do an episode on that (though it may have been to explain it to people who thought that.)

But yeah, I'd like them to at least have them as part of the storyline, they don't have to make a song and dance about them, unless necessary, but I'd like it to be part of it.

G4 isn't horsey at all with their toys, but their movements are pretty horsey in their show.  I remember in early seasons they'd sometimes dub in whinneys over their dialogue, that was cute.

I can see that.  I think they got better when they were show accurate (yes, I know the toyline is the "main thing" for MLP), but I remember seeing some of the G4 toys around the time I first got into the show (which was 2011, so they were likely at least relatively new) and they looked more like deer than anything, in my opinion.

I'm so disappointed that Hasbro continues to dive deeper into the simplistic, deformed, and butt ugly calarts style that has been plaguing American animation all these years. I'm just glad the toys don't resemble it. 

There's no such thing as CalArts style unless it actually came from that university in someway, and even then it means nothing, since anyone from said place can still do whatever style they want to do.  It is just a go-to phrase for a style someone doesn't like, nothing more, nothing less - a hater of G1's cartoon could call it CalArts if they chose to, that's how silly the phrase is.

I don't think any style has plagued animation personally, because there's so much variety and different styles - even the ones that look the same (or at least similar - have I ever found something that looks the same as another person's style?) have their own identity to me.

Okay, now that that's off my chest - I hope you didn't mind my outburst too much, I do respect it if you don't like the style of any of the cartoons, so I'm not arguing about that.  I wouldn't describe any of them as CalArts though, even if that phrase did have any legit meaning, like there actually was a CalArts style, but there's not, and the phrase needs to die out, in my opinion.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude in anyway, like I say, I do respect it if you don't like a style itself.

I love the idea of symbols and cutie marks - I have a particular love towards G4 cutie marks due to their storyline and my love towards it.

I like the night-time themed ones, such as G1 Twilight (the unicorn one) and G1 Moondancer - there's also something kind of nostalgic about the latter, as it looks like a design a children's toy would have in my opinion. G1 Night Glider's symbol is also cool and beautiful, with planets added into the mix.

I like Pillow Talk's symbol in G1, as it has a soothing bedtime theme to it, which is likely the point - I also find Pillow Talk to be nostalgic in general, and her symbol is no exception.

I like Twilight Sparkle's cutie mark in G4, and it not only looks beautiful, but kind of looks like it could represent the Elements of Harmony, as well as her own talent - not sure if it was meant to, but it can be imagined to do so.

I have several ponies for my project, with varying degrees on how developed their "cutie mark stories" are, but for the one who is at least kind of my ponysona... well, that's a spoiler, because his cutie mark storyline (at first) is that he doesn't have a cutie mark yet - he's an adult pony who still doesn't have one.

He will get one though... (and yes, I know what it is, but like I say... spoilers.)

I'll give other (canon) symbols and cutie marks I like later.

Quote from: LadyMoondancer on February 19, 2022, 04:17:50 PM

7. Put the poor forgotten G2 ponies in there, at least for a cameo.

G2-who? Never heard of her 

That would be My Little Pony Tales.

Put those tomatoes down - it was a joke!

But yeah, the G2... the actual G2s need to their moments in the spotlight (I'll be sure to make sure they do.)

The mouth looks pretty beany to me.

Also note that I put CalArts in quotes there... to convey that it's the usual moniker for such a style. Never said I approve of the nickname myself.

It's true there's always been trends in cartoons, but the bean mouth one is a pretty pervasive one and it's one I'm getting sick of.

Fair enough, sorry if I came across as too aggressive, and in fairness, I did say that it still has that style in places, but I still see a distinct difference between this and the usual bean mouth style.

Again, fair enough, but I'm ultimately okay with any art style, so it needs to do something really "wrong" for me not to like it.