The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Mana Minori on July 21, 2020, 08:19:25 PM

Title: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Mana Minori on July 21, 2020, 08:19:25 PM
I know for too long of a time that g4 fans have criticized earlier generations of MLP, and I’m sure that past gen fans have felt the same. Generation 4 is a very strange era in the franchise that  as just a wholesome show for little girls to enjoy, but almost immediately began to cater to the older male fans that spawned out of some other site- I think the exact moment was from the beginning of the episode “The Last Roundup” straight through to the series’ end. What I mean by this is that the g4 fandom not only heavily influenced both the animated series, but the g4 comics that were made to feature more adult content that they couldn’t approach in the tv series, and also influencing the toyline- taking on more molded manes, like they wanted, being more show accurate like they wanted, and by in large having the mane 6 and Princesses be repetitively spawned because the Mane 6 and Secondary 6 fan favorites were favorites of the Bronies, getting a more mature  Guardians of Harmony line, blue and white packaging, poseable, articulated and angry-faced figures with weapons....

These are all things that were absent from the first 3 generations of MLP, and it is, admittedly, disheartening that this entire generation of g4 and every bit of Licensed content that came from it was shaped by and specifically tailored to and for the Bronies from early on it its run. (Whether they themselves admit to it or not)

I would like to know how early gen fans feel, and whether you guys think that the pony franchise will ever Return to the way it was before. Not largely  influenced by and made then onward by an adamant and vocal fandom.
On the flip side, are there any positive elements that you might think can result in fandom influence in future pony generations?
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 21, 2020, 08:47:07 PM
There certainly was an excess of Brony pandering (especially in the blasted comics), although I don't think the Mane 6 spam in the toyline was part of that. Several people have observed that that is a repeat of what happened in G3 with the Core 7. And the toyline was still as dependent on young girls for sales as it ever was.
That being said, I don't think pandering dominated the show to the extent that some people say - a lot of brony pet theories and characterizations were torpedoed over the years, to considerable immature outrage. There was a lot of focus on the Mane Six, but that's because of how Hasbro tends to handle the shows for their franchises: Focus on a small core cast, so as to better be able to flesh them out (a formula codified by Beast Wars).

The show itself also borrowed a lot from past gens, especially G1. Some things more blatantly than others ("Dragonquest" is a G4 retread of "Spike's Search"). More fool on the bronies for bashing what came before - they denied themselves the ability to truly appreciate FiM.

I don't think we'll see a full return to how things were in G1, for a very simple reason: G1 was the launch generation. It defined what My Little Pony is over its long years. That's not the kind of thing you can do twice.
But I do hope to see less brony pandering and a more balanced saturation in the toyline.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Mana Minori on July 21, 2020, 09:06:08 PM
I can excuse the mane6 spam if it was also done in past gens- I will admit that I didn’t get into pony collecting and any of the past gens until g4, and I worked my way backward in collecting and appreciating the past. But I have hung around long enough to know that a few did not appreciate the g1 call outs in g4- I know they don’t’ speak for the entire g1 through 3 fandoms- didn’t appreciate the callbacks to past gens that g4 did. And I can understand that. Especially when you consider that so much of g4 was shaped by its fandom, and that fandom hated anything that came from past gens (especially g3), and mocked it, and that this also was heavily influence in the show by the staff as well... (Too many Pinkie Pies and her g3 “crazier than this” face) and the blatant mocking In the mini series that was framed as a g1 tribute.....
It was very disrespectful, even to me, who didn’t grow up with the past gens, but fell in love with them during G4’s era, long after they ran their course.
I hope this sort of disrespect isn’t carried over to future generations.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 21, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
I hope so as well. And yeah, that "tribute" series was utter garbage.

I have mixed feelings about that "Crazier than this" face. On the one hand, it does kinda come off as a dig at G3. On the other hand, it also lampoons how unhorsey the standard G4 heads are (mares have stubby catlike muzzles, most stallions have slightly more horse-ish wedge heads). Only Celestia, Luna, Cadance, and Shining Armor really have proper horse snouts.

I jumped on during G4 as well, but I also came to appreciate the older stuff. G1 is my favorite generation.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: CloudyGlow on July 21, 2020, 10:34:31 PM
It's interesting how when predominately male fans get vocal they get what they want. Of course, you have to understand that the bronies also gave massive attention to the show staff and creators. I don't like that they tailored to bronies but the show is still more enjoyable than any other pony media to me.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 21, 2020, 11:54:57 PM
I think it depends what you mean by "return to how it was before."  If you mean "minimal influence from fanbase (either this fanbase or another, like bronies) with Hasbro just doing whatever THEY feel like" . . . yeah, that's what I expect.  I think Hasbro will produce what they think kids, specifically little girls, want.

(Now, what Hasbro thinks kids want will not necessarily be what we want as collectors.  It might not even be what little girls actually want!  But that's life.)

If you mean "will Hasbro return to specific things we've seen before", like a wide range of toy characters (less Mane Cast focus like FIM and Core 7 G3 / G3.5 and more like G1) . . . Honestly it just depends on that first point:  what will Hasbro decide that kids want? 

There are a lot of successful toylines that have oodles of collectible characters, like Littlest Pet Shop, and there are a lot of successful toylines that focus on a core cast, like TMNT, and make lots of variations of them.

Mostly I am just hoping they don't go a "L.O.L. Surprise" route because I really dislike those things.   Are those still popular even?  Anyway . . . I guess we'll see in a few years (or less?) what's next.

I do think it's a REALLY good sign that all the "MLP x Other Hasbro Properties" collectible MLP figures are unique characters as opposed to "Pinkie Pie, but in a Ghostbusters suit" etc.  Seems to indicate someone at Hasbro with decision-making powers is confident in the marketability of MLP as a brand even aside from the Mane 6 concept.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: lalalei2001 on July 22, 2020, 09:01:45 AM
I don't know, but I'm eager to see what the future holds for MLP! :)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 22, 2020, 09:05:14 AM
I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. Hasbro has been making the same mistakes since G3.5. Sure G3's Bore Core kicked off this nonsense, but it was towards the tail end of the line, and there were still so many G3s to get. 3.5 solidified it. G4 has just been a lazy and frustrating obsessive rehash of Mane Suxx with horrible quality control.

Girls deserve the same quality and variety in their toylines that boys in Transformers are enjoying. Ah well, they can pick up the Basic Fun ponies. Good to know They at least, believe in delivering quality products to children.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 22, 2020, 09:30:29 AM
Nope, it will never be the same as it was before 2010, the stain left on it by bronies may fade over time but it will always be there, and just thinking about it makes me sad.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 22, 2020, 10:14:57 AM
Girls deserve the same quality and variety in their toylines that boys in Transformers are enjoying.

Now I'm not sure that I agree that little girls deserve Bumblebee shilled at every opportunity in every generation . . . :P

But I would be all about MLP versions of Botbots.  Tiny ponies that transform into household goods.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 22, 2020, 10:27:19 AM
Girls deserve the same quality and variety in their toylines that boys in Transformers are enjoying.

Now I'm not sure that I agree that little girls deserve Bumblebee shilled at every opportunity in every generation . . . :P

But I would be all about MLP versions of Botbots.  Tiny ponies that transform into household goods.


Okay, but only if we get the Sweet Talkins to morph into phones.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on July 22, 2020, 10:35:07 AM
Maybe.  it's more likely if Hasbro gives it another 10 years though
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: banditpony on July 22, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
I don't know what you mean by how it was. Everything has to adapt to current days. There was a shift to a core group at the end of G3. And when they had the right formula.. it worked, really well.

Will the franchise only be for children? The main toyline has always been for children, and I think always will be for children. A lot of bronies did not collect the main toyline ... *ahem* "not show accurate".

There's going to be side stuff that are for adults. That's new, and I think that stays. Nostalgia is a trend that isn't going away any time soon.

And I think MLP will have a harder time competing with the other tiny collectable toys. It just feels like the other toys that are for "collecting" are smaller, easier to produce and a better "bargain" to a parent.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 22, 2020, 06:02:50 PM
Quote
I know for too long of a time that g4 fans have criticized earlier generations of MLP, and I’m sure that past gen fans have felt the same.

If you mean fans of G2 and G3 towards G1 - this didn't happen. Not that all fans of G3 think G1 is better or even like G1. It just didn't happen. On the contrary, there was hostility from G1 fans towards G2. But that's all. Yeah, it was a bit nasty. But we learned from it and there wasn't any hostility over G3. The thing is though that that was all connected into THIS community. The social media world has exploded since the end of G3, and so has the way in which fandoms operate. So the tech has been a part of this too. I'm not saying it's necessarily because bronies are just more critical. (Although some are trash).

I don't know (or, I'll be honest, care) enough about the G4 animation to know what triggered the brony thing, because the brony thing as a whole to me is an abberation best forgotten. So I can't comment on that specifically. (Note, for me brony = a particular type of pony fan, not automatically a male fan of G4 or a G4 fan overall.)

Catering to the fandom - I actually don't know to what degree this happened within the actual sphere of the show and the toys associated with the show. I feel like other merch was more aimed at that demogeaphic and the pony toys were aimed at the kids.

I don't think the bronies are responsible for the M6 spam. I think the reverse. The m6 spam somehow appealed to the bronies by giving them figureheads to pin their stuff on.

The truth is that the idea of a mane 6 wasn't new to G4. This is probably something someone else touched on too, but we saw it for the first time at the end of G1 with the MLP Tales. But it never got to be too nauseating because the line ended. However even in the 2 years of that 'canon' (if you like), we saw reissues of Starlight, Sweetheart and Melody. The line was already moving in that direction, it just never got there. G2 had many repeated characters but it can be hard to track them all because of the European base for G2 - which led to multiple names and different translations for some of them (official translations or names I mean) that perhaps hides how many of these there actually are.  G3 had the core 7 at the end but even before that there were multiples of some of the original characters, including Pinkie and Dash. They were just in different poses. Sparkleworks, SunnyDaze, Wysteria, Minty...all have many versions. Even ponies like Cherry Blossom have at least 2.

The GoH is actually a decent idea. I saw young boys also interested in those toys in the toy stores near here. I don't have a problem with that line. Let's not forget that the darkest MLP animated story is not in G4, it's in G1. And in general when it wants to be, both the G1 animation and the UK comic could be dark, probably in ways broadcasting and such wouldn't ignore for FIM.

So I don't think MLP will ever recover from G4. I personally think G4 broke MLP. I'm not sure if I blame the bronies for that, though. Hasbro are the creators of MLP and they basically lost their creativity somewhere in the second or third year of G4, when they stopped putting out different brushables. The fact the G5 talk still clings to the M6 basically tells me MLP as a concept is dead. Certainly as a toyline it is dead. The only way that would change would be to gut it out completely and start over, which is what a real new generation would mean. So long as any dregs of G4 are remaining, MLP can't recover.

The thing is that G1 set the benchmark for everything in MLP, good, bad, successes and failures. It began everything. I think a lot of the hostility of the bronies is that fact. They want to be "the" generation of MLP. But it's basically just built on the bricks of all the past gens, whereas G1 had to create all these ideas and the popularity of the brand. Which means that even though G4 has taken over, you can't erase G1. Despite that, and the success of the retro line, the creativity for G1 is also closed. We get nothing new in G1 form, just old stuff rehashed. I love the retros, but yeah, the line is stagnant. It would require something intense to put that to rights.

I quite like some of the G4 toyline. I just think the tv show is really bad. I never really liked the G1 animation, but FIM gave me a new appreciation for it.

And in answer to your last question about fandom influence...no. :) Because the fandom isn't who the toyline is for. It should be kid input. Not fandom/adults. I never believed in previous gens that G1-type ponies are the only ponies that should be sold, and I still feel that. It should be driven for the kids of the time. I just feel that kids are bored with these ponies and that's why they're no longer selling.

In summary - do the bronies and their opinions matter? Nope.

P.S - Coming to G1 via G4 and coming to G1 from G1 are equally valid ways to be fans of G1. You don't need to validate it :)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Carrehz on July 22, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
I think the main 6 thing would've happened regardless of the bronies.

(For one thing, most bronies seemed to hate the official toys because they're "not show accurate!!!11" and instead spent their money on super-expensive custom plushies and the like :P)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: gabumon on July 22, 2020, 06:34:30 PM
for Tranaformers Hasbro runs multiple  lines and they should do the same for MLP:

one for Pre Schoolers (Rescue Bots)
one for 6 to 10 year olds (Cyberverse)
one for 8 to 13  and up. (Generations)
one for teens and adults who like Michael Bay shows (Studio Series)
one for adults only (Masterpiece)

MLP doesnt need THAT many toylines but at least 2 or three would be good:
Extra Trendy and Girly - for preschool to 11 year olds (their current target)
G1 inspired toyline (take it back from Basic Fun and own it) for grown up collectors.  Free of gimmicks.  lots of characters. All brushable(?)

I’d LOVE to see Hasbro do that for MLP

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 22, 2020, 07:10:33 PM
for Tranaformers Hasbro runs multiple  lines and they should do the same for MLP:

one for Pre Schoolers (Rescue Bots)
one for 6 to 10 year olds (Cyberverse)
one for 8 to 13  and up. (Generations)
one for teens and adults who like Michael Bay shows (Studio Series)
one for adults only (Masterpiece)

MLP doesnt need THAT many toylines but at least 2 or three would be good:
Extra Trendy and Girly - for preschool to 11 year olds (their current target)
G1 inspired toyline (take it back from Basic Fun and own it) for grown up collectors.  Free of gimmicks.  lots of characters. All brushable(?)

I’d LOVE to see Hasbro do that for MLP

At present they are.

They're still squeezing the last dregs of G4 toys out like a toothpaste tube.
They've got Basic Fun.
They've got Pony Life.
They've got the Mishmash Crossover line, sparse and unsure though it is.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: gabumon on July 22, 2020, 07:15:46 PM
ya I guess we should be happy with Basic Fun then. 
it’s basically a line for grown ups.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Mana Minori on July 23, 2020, 02:16:54 AM
ya I guess we should be happy with Basic Fun then. 
it’s basically a line for grown ups.
i get that BG is aiming for the nostalgic adult collectors, but Kotobukiya is moreso the adult line, I would think
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Lilja on July 23, 2020, 03:43:46 AM
Yeah, I don't think bronies have had any significant impact on the toyline (and any product that might've been targeted to them was only an addition, it didn't replace the main toyline). The only thing that matters is what the majority of kids and parents will buy. Hasbro wanted to establish a core cast of recognizable characters long before, but G4 was the first time it was really successful thanks to the cartoon.

Something that comes to mind is the big gift sets Hasbro kept putting out throughout G4. In the beginning they were called "Favorites Collection" and the majority of the ponies in them were unique characters. You can argue bronies had some influence in what characters were selected (although toy-only characters like Dewdrop Dazzle and Minty also appeared in these sets). But it still meant ponies with really unusual color schemes as well as some villains being made as toys. I think Hasbro reasoned that putting unique characters in these big sets would make them sell well. But now in recent years all big gift sets seem to only contain the mane six and the princesses. Strange as it may seem, I guess these sets sold better to kids and parents if they contained ALL the ponies kids already know and like.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 04:20:12 AM
Only speaking for the stores here, but the M6 sets shelfsat (and still shelf sit). When I was able to go to stores I could still find things like merpony Pinkie with relative ease. The yellow one? Not so much.

I also saw kids pounce on Soarin and other ponies not in the M6.

It's a quick and easy "get kids interested" pack but not so great for the kid who is already interested.

Kotobukiya is niche and I'm not really sure it's even aimed at the pony fan, so much as the kind of fan who collects those kinds of figures. We're really talking about two different types of fan - there are gonna be some ponypeople who also are into collecting other figures who would go, yeah, that's awesome. But for the most part that's not targeted at adult pony collectors/fans in general. Most especially because the vast majority of pony fans don't really look for humanoid pony things. EQG has a mixed reception for the same reason (Personally even as a G1 person,  I like EQG. But even as someone interested in Japan, I don't like the Kotobukiya figures or consider them MLP). I think I'm right in saying there were also some IT doll figures which again would've been aimed at adult collectors, but again I don't think we can say they were the adult market for pony collectors. They were also going for that crossover where two interests collide.

 I'd say BF ponies are also aimed at kids but mostly at the parents of the kids who would have grown up with those ponies and might buy them for their kids from nostalgia. So it's a strategy to tackle two groups - the nostalgic adults remembering their childhood and the parents of kids who would have grown up with G1.

And all the new game crossover whatevers are Hasbro seeing how well BF is selling and trying to capitalise in on that and the fact that Stranger Things has such a following, thus digging into the eighties vibe. It's Hasbro not really understanding what they're aiming at but eh, it's interesting anyway.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Mana Minori on July 23, 2020, 10:10:53 AM
Yeah, I don't think bronies have had any significant impact on the toyline (and any product that might've been targeted to them was only an addition, it didn't replace the main toyline). The only thing that matters is what the majority of kids and parents will buy. Hasbro wanted to establish a core cast of recognizable characters long before, but G4 was the first time it was really successful thanks to the cartoon.

Something that comes to mind is the big gift sets Hasbro kept putting out throughout G4. In the beginning they were called "Favorites Collection" and the majority of the ponies in them were unique characters. You can argue bronies had some influence in what characters were selected (although toy-only characters like Dewdrop Dazzle and Minty also appeared in these sets). But it still meant ponies with really unusual color schemes as well as some villains being made as toys. I think Hasbro reasoned that putting unique characters in these big sets would make them sell well. But now in recent years all big gift sets seem to only contain the mane six and the princesses. Strange as it may seem, I guess these sets sold better to kids and parents if they contained ALL the ponies kids already know and like.  :shrug:
that’s not how I remember it, though. I mean- wasn’t it the bronies’s constant cries for “show accurate” characters what led Hasbro to change Celestia from pink to white as one of the first movements that got the ball rolling for more? And I mean a very large chunk of the molded toylines as I said, might have been a result of that also. I don’t want to give the fandom more credit than due, but to my knowledge, I don’t think this many molded ponies and character lines came out in other generations, and I can only think of one source for the cause. You made mention of the “Favorites collection” sets, but weren’t those majorly packed with the fandom’s fleshed our characters from the series? Dj Pon-3, Bon Bon, Lyra, :muffin: Pony, etc? Yeah there were other ponies at times, but I recall them mostly being the secondary 6 with the show villains like Luna or Chrysalis.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 10:15:13 AM
Although they didn't use the brony/fan names for some of those characters, which you would expect if it was all about pandering to the bronies.

I think the bronies themselves self-inflate their importance and that's why people have an impression they dictated this, but I think that all the other toyline elements are really in keeping with what other toys from the same time period (and tv shows) have tried to do as well. For example Funko and POP are not exclusively MLP but cover a lot of different series. Maybe aimed at older collectors of figures - for sure. At bronies? No.

Bronies are not really very important except in their own world view. But Hasbro was clever enough to make them think they were by dropping scraps to keep them involved and keep the hype and the money coming in.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 23, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
ya I guess we should be happy with Basic Fun then. 
it’s basically a line for grown ups.

Kids like them. Bought some for little cousins and they were well received. My daughter has a few of them.

I've also seen kids picking them up and asking for them.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: gabumon on July 23, 2020, 11:46:18 AM
thats a good sign.

i just have this metal “tic” about them - “it should be Hasbro doing this!”.  I know its irrational.

but at the end of the day - I am glad BF is doing them.  I hope they keep going and eventually do BB and MBs!
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: banditpony on July 23, 2020, 12:12:10 PM
ya I guess we should be happy with Basic Fun then. 
it’s basically a line for grown ups.

I think it's a line for children, and collectors are secondary. It's placement is in the kids toy aisle (more specifically, an end cap with other retro toys).

Really it's a mixed bag for collectors. Some don't want them because they have vintage ones. Some don't want them due to not being exactly like the vintage ones. Some don't want them due to defects out of the bag. Kids? They aren't going to be that picky.


The upsidedown pony was considered to be more "collector", and that's why it merchandised in a different part of Target.

i just have this metal “tic” about them - “it should be Hasbro doing this!”.  I know its irrational.
It's cheaper for Hasbro to let someone else handle it. And in the end, Hasbro has the last say about what BF is doing with their IP.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Lilja on July 23, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
Only speaking for the stores here, but the M6 sets shelfsat (and still shelf sit). When I was able to go to stores I could still find things like merpony Pinkie with relative ease. The yellow one? Not so much.

My experience is completely the opposite. In my area mane six toys were flying off the shelves, especially at the peak of the cartoon's popularity, while non-mane six toys were clogging up the shelves. Whenever I saw kids playing with them they always had the M6 characters. (even at the time when Hasbro was putting out a lot of toy-only characters)

that’s not how I remember it, though. I mean- wasn’t it the bronies’s constant cries for “show accurate” characters what led Hasbro to change Celestia from pink to white as one of the first movements that got the ball rolling for more? And I mean a very large chunk of the molded toylines as I said, might have been a result of that also. I don’t want to give the fandom more credit than due, but to my knowledge, I don’t think this many molded ponies and character lines came out in other generations, and I can only think of one source for the cause. You made mention of the “Favorites collection” sets, but weren’t those majorly packed with the fandom’s fleshed our characters from the series? Dj Pon-3, Bon Bon, Lyra, :muffin: Pony, etc? Yeah there were other ponies at times, but I recall them mostly being the secondary 6 with the show villains like Luna or Chrysalis.

I don't think Celestia was changed from pink to white necessarily because of brony demand. She was always white on the show, and kids would notice this too. Why not change her to white as the line progressed? Especially since they were going to introduce another pink alicorn later (a character that was mandated by Hasbro).

The very first product released for G4 was actually a set of ponies with molded manes (way before the brony fandom could've been formed), and there were plenty of figures with molded manes in earlier generations too. And even if some of the ponies in the Favorite Collection sets were included because they were brony favorites, I don't think this means bronies have had a large impact on the toyline as a whole.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nemesis on July 23, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
As far as the inclusion of “brony favorite” ponies/names in the main line goes... It’s worth taking into account that in the modern world of online communities, hype, and social media, a lot of these names and characters end up being adopted by pony fans in general (including kids), who see a meme about Lyra or DJ Pon-3 and accept it as canon These characters then end up becoming popular with the general community of the show—not just the bronies. So while these things may have originated with bronies, Hasbro likely includes them in toylines and episodes because of the whole fandoms’ interest, rather than just to pander to the bronies.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Sparkle Pony on July 23, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
I don't particularly worry about the brony influence lasting forever, but I do find myself worried that Hasbro will continue clinging to the core cast concept they've been trying to shill since late G3. I understand how it can work for a lot of toy brands, but it is such a poor fit for MLP, in my opinion. Outside of its vast cast of new rainbow horses, I think gimmicks often feel very tacked onto the brand and make me uninterested in re-releases of the same character with a new gimmick. At least G1 coupled its gimmicks with new characters. It drove G3 into the ground and I honestly think G4 only lasted as long as it did using the show as a crutch to promote interest. I'd love to see them go for a collect 'em all approach with tons of characters again, maybe even make the show an incredibly blatant commercial promoting whatever character they want to sell at the time. Just please, no more Pinkie Pie but this time with a slightly different glitter gimmick. I can't take it any more! :lol:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
G3 was already one too many generation with Pinkie Pie in it.

G4 just made her the stuff of nightmares.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: goddessofpeep on July 23, 2020, 05:39:01 PM
Hasbro has two concerns that drive their decisions for MLP - how much money it can make, and how little money they can use to produce it. 

They catered to the brony market because it was making money.  Bronies had the numbers needed to get Hasbro’s attention. It also didn’t hurt that they were mostly guys, and Hasbro always been much kinder to “boy” toy lines, but it was probably mostly the huge numbers and the deep pockets.  And the very, very loud voices.  Bronies also had an insane online presence. Hasbro didn’t fully cater to them all the time, but they did give them a lot of fan service in the show, and occasionally in the toy line.

They went all in on the Core 7/Mane 6 thing because it’s much cheaper to produce a handful of ponies over and over again instead of having to design and produce a huge line of different characters. 

Hasbro will go for the easy cash, every time.  Right now that’s cheaply made ponies of the same 6 characters.  If the trends ever swing back to the collectable, varied pony line, that’s what Hasbro will eventually do.  I doubt there will be a repeat of the whole brony thing.  I think that was a perfect storm of influences that created this massive movement that ran its course.  I never expected the brony phenomenon to be in it for the long haul. A small percentage of bronies will keep going, and there probably will be some nostalgia thing in a few years, but I think the majority of bronies have moved on.  Without the numbers, the brony influence on the toy line and the shows will disappear in favor of whatever the next trend is.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Wardah on July 23, 2020, 07:24:16 PM
The GoH is actually a decent idea. I saw young boys also interested in those toys in the toy stores near here. I don't have a problem with that line.

I think people forget that when GoH came out the media was in "Go Grrrl Pwr!" mode. Mattel had just released DC Superhero Girls and Hasbro wanted a piece of the action. They wanted it so bad that GoH wasn't their only attempt, they tried it with Star Wars and Marvel as well.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nightbow on July 23, 2020, 10:42:32 PM
In retrospect G4 might be my least favourite generation, but it is not easy to put my finger on why. I have strange feelings towards it. It started of good. The newly anounced artwork for the show felt modern but distinctly MLP. I got the first set of main six, but it all quickly lost its appeal after that.

For me, it was the toyline that declined first. I watched collectors trying hard to find ponies in acceptable condition. Personally I tired of the size, pose, and colour schemes, and the toyline didn't really recover after that. It was when the first supposed G5 came out (silly, because new poses does not a new generation make) that I found interest in the new, more articulated brushables. But it felt too late.

With as meager of a traditional toyline I can't say it was the show that "ruined" G4, but the show's subtle decline into brony pandering was a problem. At first it was a fun wink at the adult audience, and I appreciated it, but soon it felt alienating. I think the Muffin Pony was what broke G4. On one side you have a loud adult fanbase putting focus on unimportant but unique and fun background characters, and on the other you have the adults of the children that are watching, okay with the inclusion of differently abled ponies so long as it is not done with mean spirited gags and slurs. It was after reading the reactions to the slur nickname Hasbro gave her (later re-dubbed) that it became painfully obvious that I, at the ripe age of 20, was an old fan. I stopped feeling included in the brony fandom. I did not want our "here first" fanbase to be a subgenre of bronies, and distanced myself from the fanbase.

After that, the show took a nosedive. Say what you want. Ponies are for children. I will never forgive Hasbro for creating a show that acknowledged the not childfriendly sides of the brony fandom. I will never forgive the animation of sweaty, sultry Applejack eating a juicy apple with bedroom eyes, or the show's portrayal of Daring Do bodypillows. That's not innocent fun. That's not in my gutter mind talking. That is inapproperiate.

But all that said, who cares about bronydom. It was a fun ride and now it is over. I am glad so many people found something good in MLP, but the people who latch on to fandoms for the sake of fandom will move on. Non-toxic fans will stay. Everything is going to be fine.

But I don't think G5 will be the generation when it all "goes back to normal". I think we would need a proper reboot for that. New old characters and ideas, a vision and bible like the one Lauren Faust developed. And I don't want to be the one who praises Faust as a God, but I am sure that G4  could have been so much better.

We need time. We're going to plow through G4.5 Pony Life and feel nostalgic for G3 now. I'm excited to see what will come after that. I'm just relieved that we are finally waving good bye to a part of the fandom that sought to put its mark not only on the present, but the past too. In all of this I'm still miffed that people think Tales is G2, effectively erasing my favourite gen. And a the same time I'm grateful, for its invisibility has kept it safe and pure. But at the same time G2 influences is what I'm hoping for in G5. Slender horselike pastel ponies with individual magic in a high fantasy setting.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: BubbleTea on July 23, 2020, 11:04:50 PM
Quote
At least G1 coupled its gimmicks with new characters.

This. Other toylines that are currently more popular than mlp (LOL and OMG for instance) take full advantage of the surprise trend by releasing brand new characters with each wave of surprise toys. I wish Hasbro would do this.
Spoiler
that probably means that the toy you would end up getting would have to be a complete mystery but that's what's popular now i guess :shrug:

I don't think the mane six will go away any time soon, especially Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash since they've been around for 17 years. If Hasbro wants a core group of characters then they've found which ones work (except for Applejack maybe.)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 11:49:11 PM
Quote
At least G1 coupled its gimmicks with new characters.

This. Other toylines that are currently more popular than mlp (LOL and OMG for instance) take full advantage of the surprise trend by releasing brand new characters with each wave of surprise toys. I wish Hasbro would do this.
Spoiler
that probably means that the toy you would end up getting would have to be a complete mystery but that's what's popular now i guess :shrug:

I don't think the mane six will go away any time soon, especially Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash since they've been around for 17 years. If Hasbro wants a core group of characters then they've found which ones work (except for Applejack maybe.)

Applejack, who's been around for 37 years, is disposable, but 17 year Pinkie and Dash not so much. Oh the irony.

Although that sums up G4 really.

I also think Faust is part of the problem. Not necessarily what she did with/for the show, although frankly the show is weak imo. But more the outside-the-show thing. Even on The Toys that Made Us. I understand why she was involved, but it also bothered me that she was involved because her perspective on G1 has been conflated with actual G1 and that's just nonsense. G1 was about every kid defining their own generation. Not people adhering to hers. I don't like seeing G1 interpreted through the eyes of bronies, but nor do I like it interpreted through the eyes of only one child of the time. One who really doesn't remember very well the actual canon and doesn't articulate on what she does remember very well, leading to misunderstandings. Also FIM is basically everything that the older generations were criticised for being in terms of the animation. Which is ironic in a non-funny way.

I also hate when they call Tales G2. I hate more that other things (including TTMU) also sort of adopted that idea as well. This comes back to defining G1 or other generations by G4 standards though, my absolute pet hate where G4 is concerned.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ridi on July 24, 2020, 04:00:21 AM
Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Carrehz on July 24, 2020, 06:22:40 AM
Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:

Same here :( I really hate having to "qualify" my pony love like that. I mean, I collect multiple gens, but I don't "do" FiM or anything like that.

(btw, I love your sig image! Morning Glory :heart: Cute avatar, too.)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 07:42:39 AM
I like FiM, although I think it got dragged out longer than was healthy for it, it had too much of a tendency to fall back on gags, and the episodes that didn't advance the season plot started to get particularly divey around Season 4.

But I won't forgive the bronies for tainting MLP fandom in popular consciousness through their bad behavior. The bad behavior, the acting like they owned the franchise, the mindless hatred towards older gens.. Urgh.
There's a reason I started exclusively coming to the Arena and the Trading Post shortly after discovering both of said places.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: pawpatrolbab on July 24, 2020, 08:05:13 AM
I remember joining the community pretty young - about 13. I was always a fan of ponies as a kid but hadn't found much interest in any sort of media outside of Pony Tales and a few of the G3 movies. I abolutely adored G4 but started liking the toys and the show less as time went on. I'm so sad that they stopped just making ponies. I miss being able to buy random characters, now it's just the same characters and toys  :cry: Don't get me wrong I love the main 6 but I would love to see some different ponies using the G4 mold....

Sadly because of the influence the Brony phenomenon has had I don't think that ponies will ever be the same again, but one can hope
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 24, 2020, 08:51:17 AM
I won't forgive Hasbro anytime soon for that awful Retrospective. That was definitely brony pandering in the worst ways, for being disgusting, spiteful and innapropriate.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nemesis on July 24, 2020, 08:53:19 AM
I’m still traumatized by the Daring Do body pillow. ._. How did that possibly make it to production? How did no one draw a line? The show is rated TV-Y.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 24, 2020, 01:16:29 PM
Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:

Tell me about it :(

I’m still traumatized by the Daring Do body pillow. ._. How did that possibly make it to production? How did no one draw a line? The show is rated TV-Y.

They obviously wanted to make a shout out to all the bronies who own such pillows.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 01:41:59 PM
I won't forgive Hasbro anytime soon for that awful Retrospective. That was definitely brony pandering in the worst ways, for being disgusting, spiteful and innapropriate.

Is that the media THING on which all that garbage about G1 being all about parties and stuff was said?

Or is that some other horror?

I just hate the way prior generations get reframed to make G4 look like the final polished evolution.

G4 is fine but it's it's own generation. It's not an evolved final form. This isn't pokemon.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 24, 2020, 01:58:02 PM
I won't forgive Hasbro anytime soon for that awful Retrospective. That was definitely brony pandering in the worst ways, for being disgusting, spiteful and innapropriate.

Is that the media THING on which all that garbage about G1 being all about parties and stuff was said?

Or is that some other horror?

I just hate the way prior generations get reframed to make G4 look like the final polished evolution.

G4 is fine but it's it's own generation. It's not an evolved final form. This isn't pokemon.

It was the one that tried to do a Pop Up Videos type thing, only it was filled with inappropriate and mean spirited "humor."

They don't treat their other big sellers like this.  :mad:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
I won't forgive Hasbro anytime soon for that awful Retrospective. That was definitely brony pandering in the worst ways, for being disgusting, spiteful and innapropriate.

Is that the media THING on which all that garbage about G1 being all about parties and stuff was said?

Or is that some other horror?

I just hate the way prior generations get reframed to make G4 look like the final polished evolution.

G4 is fine but it's it's own generation. It's not an evolved final form. This isn't pokemon.

It was the one that tried to do a Pop Up Videos type thing, only it was filled with inappropriate and mean spirited "humor."

They don't treat their other big sellers like this.  :mad:

Ohh, That.
Well.

Girl's toy.

Nuff said really.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 02:04:58 PM
I won't forgive Hasbro anytime soon for that awful Retrospective. That was definitely brony pandering in the worst ways, for being disgusting, spiteful and innapropriate.

Is that the media THING on which all that garbage about G1 being all about parties and stuff was said?

Or is that some other horror?

I just hate the way prior generations get reframed to make G4 look like the final polished evolution.

G4 is fine but it's it's own generation. It's not an evolved final form. This isn't pokemon.
1. It's some other horror; that "media THING" was an early-on interview with Lauren Faust, where her conception of G1 was clearly based entirely off the backcards (And a very negative perception thereof). The Retrospective is that abomination miniseries that accompanied the release of the retraux Mane Six set, that revisited the G1 cartoon... with horrifically mocking subtitle commentary. In my opinion, the people who made it and the brand rep who approved it deserve to have Fortress Maximus dropped on their heads repeatedly.
2. Yeah, that view is disgusting.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
Yeah, thanks for the clarity. I do remember the retrospective now too. Made worse by the fact Hasbro is trying now to rekindle retro with all these collabs, having apparently realised retro ponies (BF) sell and them saying they wanted nothing to do with them was a bit of a fail.

That Retrospective thing was definitely a brony pandering, agreed.

I'd dispute that Faust's view was based on the backcards either, honestly....I think it was just some kind of mangled memory in her mind about how MLP was in G1. I didn't watch the brony THING because just the clips I did see offended me, but watching her interview on TTMU told me everything I wanted to know about her concept of G1 and that it didn't really bear resemblance to G1.

Besides, G4 is all parties and fashion and all the things that apparently G1 was so bad with. So apparently they're fine if they're in G4.

The irony being that all of that 'girly' nonsense is one reason I dislike FIM xD.



Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 24, 2020, 03:59:47 PM
Besides, G4 is all parties and fashion and all the things that apparently G1 was so bad with. So apparently they're fine if they're in G4.

The irony being that all of that 'girly' nonsense is one reason I dislike FIM xD.

I remember someone saying here that G4 is actually very girly and how it made me realize that the few episodes of FiM that I had watched actually felt much more stereotypically girly than the G1 cartoon :lol:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 04:08:44 PM
Yeah, thanks for the clarity. I do remember the retrospective now too. Made worse by the fact Hasbro is trying now to rekindle retro with all these collabs, having apparently realised retro ponies (BF) sell and them saying they wanted nothing to do with them was a bit of a fail.

That Retrospective thing was definitely a brony pandering, agreed.

I'd dispute that Faust's view was based on the backcards either, honestly....I think it was just some kind of mangled memory in her mind about how MLP was in G1. I didn't watch the brony THING because just the clips I did see offended me, but watching her interview on TTMU told me everything I wanted to know about her concept of G1 and that it didn't really bear resemblance to G1.
Well, the backcards and the commercials are the only pieces of G1 material that I think could even remotely begin to give the impression it was nothing but sappy parties and whatnot, considering the "End of the world? Must be Tuesday" nature of the cartoon and the stuff that happened in the comics. My thought was that she gave the commercials a handful of the backcard stories a glance and then didn't dive deeper.
I recall her saying that she played with the toys growing up but didn't know any of the story stuff until later, at which point she formed said impression.

Besides, G4 is all parties and fashion and all the things that apparently G1 was so bad with. So apparently they're fine if they're in G4.

The irony being that all of that 'girly' nonsense is one reason I dislike FIM xD.




Hey now, G4 isn't all parties and fashion and w/e. It's also cheap and sometimes cringeworthy comedy used a substitute for actual writing.

To be fair, there are still adventures with villains and monsters, although Equestria isn't as constantly on the brink of disaster as Ponyland was in the G1 cartoon. But still...
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: northstar3184 on July 24, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:

I feel this especially true for male fans given how we're so likely to get regarded as brownies simply for being male. I grew up with G1, and have been a fan since the mid 80s. In fact I used to watch the original cartoon series in the morning before going to preschool.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 24, 2020, 04:52:38 PM
Well, the backcards and the commercials are the only pieces of G1 material that I think could even remotely begin to give the impression it was nothing but sappy parties and whatnot, considering the "End of the world? Must be Tuesday" nature of the cartoon and the stuff that happened in the comics.

I think it's just that MLP & Friends was a pretty obscure cartoon, combined with the fact that people don't always remember childhood experiences accurately.  Maybe she got unlucky and caught Sweet Stuff & the Treasure Hunt and then the Gizmonk episode and thought, "Oh, it's just boring stuff" and stopped watching.   (Look, Sweet Stuff was cute, but that episode was a snoozer.)  Then you get memory bleed from the commercials, which really were just little girls extolling the prettiness of their horses, and yeah . . .

Tbh my impression of "MLP & Friends" was also "probably just 'the search for the lost hairbrush'" before I started collecting and found the summaries of it on Dream Valley.  I don't know what the viewership was on the cartoon, but I think it was really, really low.  Back in the 90s it was rare to meet a ponyperson who had watched the cartoons.  Kim Shriner had them all on tape, though, (as in taped off TV back in the day) and you could buy a set of ripped VHSes from her; that was the way most MLP collectors first saw "MLP & Friends."
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Wardah on July 24, 2020, 05:19:19 PM
I don't think the retrospective was aimed at bronies. Most bronies are too young to remember the G1 cartoon and most likely would not have bought any retro merch which is why it was made. I think they were more likely aiming it at people who remember MLP but might not have thought about it much since childhood and they were going for a conspiratorial, "Haha remember how cringe the 80s were? Yet despite how cringy those days were we still miss them right? We have just the thing for you then."


I still think Faust's view of MLP media was more likely shaped by G3 than G1. The early 2000s were a dark age for girl focused cartoons. It was either all either sweetness and light or a Bratzy shopping spree.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
I got Jem episodes, MLP tales eps and a tape of US pony commercials in trade for UK ponies in 1998 >.>

Have since bought official DVDs of Jem and MLP though now they exist (albeit they're still US format. Grr UK).

Sweet Stuff & the Treasure Hunt was one of my 4 childhood episodes of MLP&Friends. I liked it a lot better than the Wouldbe Dragonslayer (on the same VHS) because frankly - being a kid obsessed with the princesses and dragons, growing up less than an hour from the Welsh border - I found dragonslaying offensive xD. Even though obv. he doesn't actually want to do that at all. But that one is super annoying.

I quite liked the treasure hunt as a lot of my childhood ponies were in it. But I couldn't get over the name "Sweet Stuff". I mean what even is that? It was that episode mainly that gave me the impression the cartoons weren't proper MLP because they couldn't get the names right xD.

The other 2 I had were Ice Cream Wars and Revolt of PE (my favourite! Paradise! Yay!) That latter one is definitely not parties and flowers though...aside the health and safety implications of parts of the roof falling on a pony's head while a BABY pony is in the room...taking gifts from strangers...and then rogue talking furniture that TURNED on them. I don't think they had time to have a tea party.

ICW also almost resulted in the squashing of Baby North Star and the mangling of baby ponies in an ice cream topping machine that they really shouldn't have been in (H&S again!).

Seems like the main lesson I took from the G1 eps I had was that ponyland was quite unsafe.

I'm interested that you mention the cartoons as obscure in the 1980s, LM. They certainly were here, but over there too? Or is it a state by state thing do you think in terms of transmission?

I suspect Faust was remembering the adverts which were all girly, teapartyish and stuff.

The fact she didn't remember anything from G1 but had an opinion on what she thought it was like, which then became the core of her TV show despite the fact she apparently didn't like that...is just wrongness for me on so many levels.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 24, 2020, 05:57:34 PM
Its been a while since I watched my boxset, but I don't recall Baby North Star nearly getting squashed and mangled. Ah to be young and unsupervised again.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 24, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:

I feel this especially true for male fans given how we're so likely to get regarded as brownies simply for being male. I grew up with G1, and have been a fan since the mid 80s. In fact I used to watch the original cartoon series in the morning before going to preschool.

Yeah, this too. I hate bringing gender into discussion, but it's true that bronies especially ruined it for oldschool male pony fans. When you're an adult woman into MLP people will usually just assume that you liked it as a kid and it's childhood nostalgia, but when you're an adult male into MLP then people these days will just automatically associate you with the brony fandom. That's probably one of the main reasons behind my personal grudge against them.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: otocolobus_manul on July 24, 2020, 07:21:26 PM
Will the franchise ever go back to being like G1? I sincerely hope not. I like very little about the G1 toyline, and nothing about the media associated with it. The current gen has its fair share of problems, but trying to default back to an earlier iteration isn't any better.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Shadowperla on July 24, 2020, 07:55:18 PM
I hate bringing gender into discussion, but it's true that bronies especially ruined it for oldschool male pony fans. When you're an adult woman into MLP people will usually just assume that you liked it as a kid and it's childhood nostalgia, but when you're an adult male into MLP then people these days will just automatically associate you with the brony fandom. That's probably one of the main reasons behind my personal grudge against them.

I feel this especially true for male fans given how we're so likely to get regarded as brownies simply for being male. I grew up with G1, and have been a fan since the mid 80s. In fact I used to watch the original cartoon series in the morning before going to preschool.

*hugs*
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 24, 2020, 11:32:44 PM
I'm interested that you mention the cartoons as obscure in the 1980s, LM. They certainly were here, but over there too? Or is it a state by state thing do you think in terms of transmission?

Obscure across the board in the US, IMO.  It's not like Transformers, where the cartoon was the main driver of the hype.  I think most former 80s kids only know there was a MLP cartoon because EVERYTHING had a cartoon in the 80s, ha ha.

Quote
The fact she didn't remember anything from G1 but had an opinion on what she thought it was like, which then became the core of her TV show despite the fact she apparently didn't like that...is just wrongness for me on so many levels.

But she did know what G1 was like.  She knew what the toys were like.  Which was the core of the MLP experience for little girls in the US.  This may seem odd to you since the UK had such a widespread, regular output of canon (the comics).  But most American little girls did not know or care about any of the canon, they just loved brushable horse toys. (Arguably the backcards were the most widespread type of canon but let's be real, most of them got thrown away and their stories forgotten.)

I was obsessed with MLP as a little girl, it was my absolute favorite toy.  I kept the brochures that came with the ponies and from those I could name all the ponies from Year 2 to Year 4.  But if someone asked me, "And which ponies are the main characters in MLP & Friends?  What are their personalities?", I would have been completely stumped.  To me Wind Whistler was not any more significant than Skippity Doo.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 25, 2020, 12:33:48 AM
I'm interested that you mention the cartoons as obscure in the 1980s, LM. They certainly were here, but over there too? Or is it a state by state thing do you think in terms of transmission?

Obscure across the board in the US, IMO.  It's not like Transformers, where the cartoon was the main driver of the hype.  I think most former 80s kids only know there was a MLP cartoon because EVERYTHING had a cartoon in the 80s, ha ha.

Quote
The fact she didn't remember anything from G1 but had an opinion on what she thought it was like, which then became the core of her TV show despite the fact she apparently didn't like that...is just wrongness for me on so many levels.

But she did know what G1 was like.  She knew what the toys were like.  Which was the core of the MLP experience for little girls in the US.  This may seem odd to you since the UK had such a widespread, regular output of canon (the comics).  But most American little girls did not know or care about any of the canon, they just loved brushable horse toys. (Arguably the backcards were the most widespread type of canon but let's be real, most of them got thrown away and their stories forgotten.)

Yeah, I think I worded that badly (it was late). What I meant was that her opinions on what the characters etc actually were were based on her childhood imagination and not on what was actually marketed with G1. But people have still interviewed her about G1, when she clearly has nothing useful to say on the 'canon' side of things (largely because as you say there wasn't necessarily one).

But you also make a good point about the difference in how this was all handled. The TV series gets a lot of attention in discussions like it was a meaningful part of defining people's pony ideas, and maybe it was...but it's interesting to think whether that impression of it as being important is something that happened after MLP was in stores and not at the time.

I wonder this especially because (aside the movie, which came to cinemas, and maybe RaMC) the MLP Tv series only aired here in 1995, which was not especially helpful from a sales point of view. And then only on cable TV. I wasn't hugely into transformers, heman, shera etc as a kid to the point where I had any/many toys, but I was seriously into MLP from about age 5. But I remember the tv shows for those other lines very well. MLP tv to me was just four eps on 2 vhs tapes (one of which I didn't have till I was about nine I think) and because they contradicted the comics I mostly dismissed them.

As for the backcards, well, some of those US card story concepts made it into the UK comic (like Shady's psychadelia) but yeah, the same is true here. If not for the fact file (and those entries are NOT all backcard stories, though the 1987 ones all are I think) then those would've been forgotten here too.

@LAW - in Ice Cream Wars - which I watched more times as a kid than was good for me and traumatised my mother making her watch it with me - there's a moment where the two ice cream idiots are about to crash into each other and Baby NS flies into the middle of them...they seem to crash into her and there's a cloud of dust....

But she's fine.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Zapper on July 25, 2020, 01:09:01 AM
What has been on my mind again due to Pony Life starting to air is how overly aware people are now of MLP fandom and it's all negative. MLP is no longer a quirky, quiet thing you carry over from childhood and occasionally get chuckled at for -- it is now overlapping with all sorts of geekdoms and has a bad reputation.

It's annoying that wherever geeky space you go to people just hate you by association now. I have never used the term "brony" or "pegasis" on me and was even accused of faking interest in MLP to attract (these specific, messed up) guys :lol:

Now some will say "who cares what people think?" but yeah, I do care about how I am perceived. So what.

I will say, tho, that a lot of movies, series and comics are heavily driven by fan demand now thanks to social media and people going ham over their fanons and ships. I don't like it, but understand there is nothing to be done about it anymore. That's the virtual world for ya, pestering people endlessly until they do what you say they should do to make you shut up :P
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 25, 2020, 03:51:10 AM
was even accused of faking interest in MLP to attract (these specific, messed up) guys :lol:

"Name all the friendship lessons!"
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 25, 2020, 06:08:28 AM
was even accused of faking interest in MLP to attract (these specific, messed up) guys :lol:

"Name all the friendship lessons!"
Name the gimmick the writers obviously tired of by the second season, considering how they started horsing around with it.  :P
There's another awkward thing about FiM: Unlike past MLP, it had to present itself as edutainment early-on.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Lilja on July 25, 2020, 06:15:07 AM
But she did know what G1 was like.  She knew what the toys were like.  Which was the core of the MLP experience for little girls in the US.  This may seem odd to you since the UK had such a widespread, regular output of canon (the comics).  But most American little girls did not know or care about any of the canon, they just loved brushable horse toys. (Arguably the backcards were the most widespread type of canon but let's be real, most of them got thrown away and their stories forgotten.)

I was obsessed with MLP as a little girl, it was my absolute favorite toy.  I kept the brochures that came with the ponies and from those I could name all the ponies from Year 2 to Year 4.  But if someone asked me, "And which ponies are the main characters in MLP & Friends?  What are their personalities?", I would have been completely stumped.  To me Wind Whistler was not any more significant than Skippity Doo.

This is interesting and I suspected this was the case. The cartoon is probably the most widespread and well known canon for G1 MLP, but even then a lot of collectors are only vaguley aware of it and what ponies were featured in it, and it wasn't integral to their childhoods (if they saw it at all). Of course there were lots of story books as well, but I think generally animation will always make a stronger impression on small kids, since they can engage with it on their own without needing anyone to read for them.

In my opinion most G1 stories aren't very engaging either way, but when you're a kid who loves the ponies and their world you can use your own imagination to compensate for that. And to be fair to these stories, I feel like G1 MLP was so toy-focused as a brand that it didn't lend itself well to good storytelling. And using cartoons to sell toys was a very new thing in the '80s, there was no previous successful template to look at. The adults who had to put these cartoons/books together probably did the best they could with what they were given, but the best pony stories would most likely exist inside kids' heads.

So in a way I think Lauren Faust disregarding the G1 "canon" and just going by how she played with her ponies as a child, was the best and the most G1 way to go about it.  :)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 25, 2020, 07:29:45 AM
Yeah, until it came to it being imposed on everyone else as "how G1 was".

I was a nerdy book type as a kid, and I read a lot, so they had a bigger influence on my opinion of ponies and their abilities etc. But even despite that I didn't play games based on the comic, ever. I made up my own. And my ponies had their own world they lived in which wasn't the comic world either.

I think G1 was fluid like that. You could enter into it or leave it and still get meaningful play.

The problem with interviewing Faust on G1 is that what she thought about G1 - which was entirely valid for her as a kid - got then imposed on MLP and has been used to interpret it as though that was how it was for everyone. Which is a problem, since G1 is not meant to be that proscribed.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: BubbleTea on July 25, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
Quote
Applejack, who's been around for 37 years, is disposable, but 17 year Pinkie and Dash not so much. Oh the irony.

Well it's kinda different because Pinkie and Rainbow have been in the center of merchandise and media every year since 2003 whereas Applejack had a hiatus until 2010
Spoiler
yes there was a g3 applejack but she had a much different color scheme and besides she only had one toy release then vanished into oblivion
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nightbow on July 25, 2020, 04:09:21 PM
I'm surprised to hear that some of you guys see MLP and Friends as obscure. I was born in 1990 and grew up with the cartoon -- did the majority of us 80s/90s pony people not do that?

Not that it mattered much to me, because the pony toys I grew up with was not the ponies that were featured in the show.

Quote
I didn't watch the brony THING because just the clips I did see offended me, but watching her interview on TTMU told me everything I wanted to know about her concept of G1 and that it didn't really bear resemblance to G1.

Say what? Is this interview available somewhere, and what is TTMU?
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 25, 2020, 04:19:46 PM
I'm surprised to hear that some of you guys see MLP and Friends as obscure. I was born in 1990 and grew up with the cartoon -- did the majority of us 80s/90s pony people not do that?

Not that it mattered much to me, because the pony toys I grew up with was not the ponies that were featured in the show.

Quote
I didn't watch the brony THING because just the clips I did see offended me, but watching her interview on TTMU told me everything I wanted to know about her concept of G1 and that it didn't really bear resemblance to G1.

Say what? Is this interview available somewhere, and what is TTMU?

TTMU - The Toys that Made Us - it was on Netflix :) There's an ep for MLP and unfortunately she's included.

What's interested about what you just said is that you were born in 1990 but grew up with the show - so AFTER the time it was really made/released to promote the MLP toys released in those years (85-87ish?). I think this is in keeping with what happened here as it was aired in the UK AFTER MLP ended, in 1995. At the time the ponies were out on shelves, it was negligible here, and apparently, over in the US as well. Maybe it was the same in Sweden?

The difference for me as a kid (again, UK, not US) was that over here the comic was there as the toys came out. It introduced new ponies, had giveaways for new sets, contained adverts for them as they came out. I don't know what it was like pre-comic, MLP in the UK is a bit sketchy before 1984-5 anyway, and the comic began in 85. But after it got going, that was where new ponies were generally being introduced to kids. Rather than the TV show.

I've never thought the TV show was important, growing up as an eighties kid. But knowing it did air here in the 1990s makes me wonder if it's been more influential since MLP ended, with kids growing up with handmedown ponies or second hand ones or other generations - or collectors coming to G1 from the G4 background of a show and thus looking for it.

But that's probably a different discussion thread.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nightbow on July 25, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Quote
TTMU - The Toys that Made Us - it was on Netflix  There's an ep for MLP and unfortunately she's included.

Ah, of course. Thank you. That's the one I've meant to see but have missed because we don't have Netflix.

Quote
At the time the ponies were out on shelves, it was negligible here, and apparently, over in the US as well. Maybe it was the same in Sweden?

I was so young, but I remember seeing G1 ponies on the shelves when I was very little. I don't know hos long the gap between G1 and G2 was. It is kind of funny that UK grew up with the toy ponies from the show but not the show, and Sweden had it the other way around. I see how that must have led to UK kids going "I don't like what they did with *pony*'s personality in the show" and swedish kids going "I'm just going to prentend Kisscurl is Rosedust" (I had never seen a flutter pony toy). But yeah. OT?
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Shaz on July 26, 2020, 01:54:07 AM
I think G1 was fluid like that. You could enter into it or leave it and still get meaningful play.

This is what I like best about G1, the freedom to make up your own stories. I think G4 is a lot more limited in that way because the cartoon is so in-your-face. But maybe there are still kids out there ignoring the cartoon and doing their own thing, I hope so! I'd love if future generations were a bit less media-orientated and more aimed at encouraging imaginative play and original storytelling, but I suppose that's not really what's fashionable these days.

Re what you grew up with: my girlfriend was born in 1993 and raised in the UK. She grew up with second-hand G1s, a video with three hours of MLP n Friends on it (Rescue from Midnight Castle, Escape from Catrina, The Magic Coins, Ice-Cream Wars, Bright Lights, Sweetstuff & the Treasure Hunt, Pony Puppy, The Return of Tambelon, Woe Is Me and Spike's Search), the annuals (but no comics) and the UK Factfile. Any pony she saw that she didn't have she just assumed that she hadn't found second-hand yet. The cartoon and to a lesser extent the annuals influenced the world her ponies lived in (it included Tambelon, the ponies lived in Dream Castle, and Midnight Castle was home to a whole race of evil centaurs against whom the ponies went to war) but she had no qualms about renaming ponies, assigning new characters to them, inventing a new world for them etc. She also wrote her own pony storybooks and even her own Factfile, which is now sort of like our own personal canon (for us there's three overlapping G1 canons, Comics, Cartoon and Kitti's Pony World. The latter is our favourite!). Thanks to the cartoon, I still can't persuade her to call Sweetstuff Sweetie, even though all our other ponies have UK names.
It's interesting to see which pony media different countries/different areas of different countries had and how it influenced different people's childhoods. I wonder how the current generation of children will remember G4. (End of somewhat off-topic ramble, sorry.)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 26, 2020, 02:01:11 AM
Quote
TTMU - The Toys that Made Us - it was on Netflix  There's an ep for MLP and unfortunately she's included.

Ah, of course. Thank you. That's the one I've meant to see but have missed because we don't have Netflix.

Quote
At the time the ponies were out on shelves, it was negligible here, and apparently, over in the US as well. Maybe it was the same in Sweden?

I was so young, but I remember seeing G1 ponies on the shelves when I was very little. I don't know hos long the gap between G1 and G2 was. It is kind of funny that UK grew up with the toy ponies from the show but not the show, and Sweden had it the other way around. I see how that must have led to UK kids going "I don't like what they did with *pony*'s personality in the show" and swedish kids going "I'm just going to prentend Kisscurl is Rosedust" (I had never seen a flutter pony toy). But yeah. OT?

We didn't really grow up with ponies from the show, tbh. I thought Cupcake and Truly were made up characters as a kid because they weren't in the factfile. The SS ponies I didn't know were SS, so just thought of them as the regular ones. But we also didn't get any of the y2/3 pegasus or unicorn ponies so in those cases didn't even have the regular Heart Throb or Surprise to be going on with. No Ribbon or Lofty either. But some of those were also in our comic stories, just not in our shops.

I never saw later ones with Mimic or Twilight SS etc till 1995 but even then wasn't sure they were real ponies. Twilight was on the packaging for something we had here that had US cards, but that's all.

Milkweed and Tumbleweed and Scoops were others I remember from my childhood vhs who I didn't think were real ponies. Or Satin Slipper.  I never once thought that was a real playset.

So really we didn't. The show was here on VHS - all but one episode - but they didn't really relate to the ponies we had here, their personalities in the comic etc or their proper release names here. So yeah. It didn't really mean much to me. TBH the only pony the show did better than the comic was Wind Whistler. xD.

We did get the Flutter ponies, though. Did you not have Rosedust over there?

G1 in Europe ended in 1994, but I'm not sure exactly when in Scandinavia. G2 started in Europe I think in 1998. Certainly here it was 1998, the US it was 1997. But of course old lines can stay on shelves for longer. We found ponies into 1995 and I had a bed and crib set I bought from TRU when I was at university in 2000ish...
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Zapper on July 26, 2020, 04:49:25 AM
was even accused of faking interest in MLP to attract (these specific, messed up) guys :lol:

"Name all the friendship lessons!"

Haha! I used to counter such stuff with G1-G3 gatekeeping:
"Oh you like Pony, heh? List the names of the Core Seven and the Tales/TV Star ponies. I'm waiting, you fake!" :P
Thankfully that has died down.

But people thinking a woman buys kids toys for herself to appeal to men is crazy no matter what fandom. Like, wouldn't the first assumption be she is buying them for a child? :biggrin:

Post Merge: July 26, 2020, 05:16:24 AM

Whenever I mention I'm a fan of My Little Pony I feel like I have to add a disclaimer that I'm only into g1/the 80s and 90s ponies, just so I won't be associated with br*nies  :lookround:

I feel this especially true for male fans given how we're so likely to get regarded as brownies simply for being male. I grew up with G1, and have been a fan since the mid 80s. In fact I used to watch the original cartoon series in the morning before going to preschool.

Yeah, this too. I hate bringing gender into discussion, but it's true that bronies especially ruined it for oldschool male pony fans. When you're an adult woman into MLP people will usually just assume that you liked it as a kid and it's childhood nostalgia, but when you're an adult male into MLP then people these days will just automatically associate you with the brony fandom. That's probably one of the main reasons behind my personal grudge against them.

Why not bring this up? I have noticed this since "brony" became a term that a lot of Bronies themselves pretended that every male fan that came before them must have been either gay (and a Mr. Smithers type with a room full of Malibu Stacies) or nonexistent. That all straight male fans are Bronies by default, even little boys growing up with FiM.
No wonder this backfired on all male G1-G3.5 fans. Some adopted the term out of peer pressure and said "I was a brony before it was cool" but that is another can of worms.
There is nothing wrong about liking MLP. MLPs are cute. I think the fandom was way less divided by gender in the past. Guys were fewer but I don't recall us girls trying to put a label on them or keep away from them. Anyone remember MLP fandom being anti-men? I personally don't.
Maybe side-eyeing them and questioning them because most girl things are deemed "uncool" but calling them a separating term and telling tgem to make their own fandom, nope.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on July 26, 2020, 05:36:27 AM
TTMU - The Toys that Made Us - it was on Netflix :) There's an ep for MLP and unfortunately she's included.

Lol, I just rewatched that ep because of this thread, and here it is being discussed :)

I wasn't quite bothered by Faust's presence, but her idea of Seashell and Bubbles being "differently abled" was so odd to say the least. Maybe it was her delivery of that line? I dunno. I never saw my Seashell as such. She was always the babysitter in my herd, sitting tight and keeping her eye on the little ones playing :) Faust had a few overall views on G1 that were a little off in tone, but whatever.

What I did find interesting is how Hasbro felt like they hit a wall after the first six... They saw the potential for collectibility in the expansion of the line with different poses, species, colors and symbols, and so we ended up with 10 years of different ponies. Nowadays, all they want to do is pump out the same six :D One could argue that the diversity and collectibility has moved from the main brushable line to the blind bags, but that has always been a secondary line to me.

EDIT: on the TTMU episode; "Feed the beast" ... new ponies... "Feed the beast" ...new ponies...  "Feed the beast" ...new ponies... Always makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 26, 2020, 07:30:35 AM
How does she get the idea that Seashell and Bubbles are disabled? I'm gonna say it now and I don't care who this ticks off. This woman says a lot of dumb crap. Horses can sit.
They seldom do it, and its not comfortable for them, but they can.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on July 26, 2020, 10:00:57 AM
How does she get the idea that Seashell and Bubbles are disabled?

Because they were sitting down, that's all there was to her theory. The TTMU ep is not the only time she brought this up; I can't recall the exact interviews (or online posts or chats?), but she did mention it before, when asked about G1.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 26, 2020, 10:47:19 AM
How does she get the idea that Seashell and Bubbles are disabled?

Because they were sitting down, that's all there was to her theory. The TTMU ep is not the only time she brought this up; I can't recall the exact interviews (or online posts or chats?), but she did mention it before, when asked about G1.

 :nope: pfft
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nemesis on July 26, 2020, 11:33:34 AM
How does she get the idea that Seashell and Bubbles are disabled?

Because they were sitting down, that's all there was to her theory. The TTMU ep is not the only time she brought this up; I can't recall the exact interviews (or online posts or chats?), but she did mention it before, when asked about G1.

 :nope: pfft

Did anyone else get the sense that Lauren was just sharing what she thought as a child growing up with MLP? It seemed to me like she was laughing at her own childhood self for assuming that Seashell and Bubbles were differently-abled based on the sitting pose.

Honestly, the rapid-fire editing style of TTMU probably leaves out a lot of context. There are little snippets of larger conversations, and they play up those bits for laughs or insert them into other segments. I feel like a lot is getting lost in translation, so to speak.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Sparkle Pony on July 26, 2020, 11:46:23 AM
How does she get the idea that Seashell and Bubbles are disabled?

Because they were sitting down, that's all there was to her theory. The TTMU ep is not the only time she brought this up; I can't recall the exact interviews (or online posts or chats?), but she did mention it before, when asked about G1.

I think I recall using that kind of weird logic with some of my own non-MLP toys as a child. If they were molded in a permanent sitting position I couldn't make it look like they were walking around and that bothered me, so I would come up with an explanation that they couldn't walk. Usually also give them some super-powered vehicle to cruise around in too. It just gets weird when you start presenting your bizarre childhood ideas in documentaries like TTMU.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 26, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
There is not enough palm to contain all the face
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Ponyfan on July 26, 2020, 03:37:58 PM
I am also not a fan of Faust’s interview on The Toys That Made Us episode.  At one point she says she something that implies G1 ponies lived “in peaceful meadows and cupcake houses.”  It’s been a long time since I’ve watched TTMU so I probably don’t have the quote exactly right.  I do think that TTMU pieced the parts they used from her interview from a longer one, but I wish her comments had only been about G4/FIM instead of including her opinions on G1 ponies.

I would like to see Hasbro return to more characters and variety in the line but I think they will be still be focused on one set of characters that they will endlessly repeat.

Ponyfan
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 26, 2020, 05:02:18 PM
Why not bring this up? I have noticed this since "brony" became a term that a lot of Bronies themselves pretended that every male fan that came before them must have been either gay (and a Mr. Smithers type with a room full of Malibu Stacies) or nonexistent. That all straight male fans are Bronies by default, even little boys growing up with FiM.
No wonder this backfired on all male G1-G3.5 fans. Some adopted the term out of peer pressure and said "I was a brony before it was cool" but that is another can of worms.
There is nothing wrong about liking MLP. MLPs are cute. I think the fandom was way less divided by gender in the past. Guys were fewer but I don't recall us girls trying to put a label on them or keep away from them. Anyone remember MLP fandom being anti-men? I personally don't.

Yeah, I don't remember much about Arena of that time (although I think there was something like "All Boys Pony Club", whatever that was :P) but 2000s was a much better time for guys to be into MLP.

I am also not a fan of Faust’s interview on The Toys That Made Us episode.  At one point she says she something that implies G1 ponies lived “in peaceful meadows and cupcake houses.”

I swear she's doing that on purpose at this point.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Mrs. Prospector on July 26, 2020, 07:27:08 PM
Can people please stop acting like Faust knows anything about G1? It is clear she does not. She played with them, and it is sweet that she got to reboot a show based on a childhood favorite toy, but she should not be interviewed about G1 history or facts.

Kinda unrelated, but similarly, does anyone else dislike it when people act like Firefly, Surprise, ect. were just who Pinkie and Dash were in G1, and that Twilight is the same character as Twilight Sparkle? Or act like Firefly/Surprise/Twilight/Posey/AJ/Sparkler were the main 6 characters in G1? They never appeared in a single animated work together!

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 26, 2020, 08:12:47 PM
Can people please stop acting like Faust knows anything about G1? It is clear she does not. She played with them, and it is sweet that she got to reboot a show based on a childhood favorite toy, but she should not be interviewed about G1 history or facts.

Kinda unrelated, but similarly, does anyone else dislike it when people act like Firefly, Surprise, ect. were just who Pinkie and Dash were in G1, and that Twilight is the same character as Twilight Sparkle? Or act like Firefly/Surprise/Twilight/Posey/AJ/Sparkler were the main 6 characters in G1? They never appeared in a single animated work together!


Yes it ticks me off, and arrogant types refuse to wrap their head around the fact that these are their own characters.

I see some of them as ancestors maybe, but not prototypes.

I head canon Whizzer as both G3 and G4 RD's relative. In my collection she's their aunt.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 27, 2020, 01:32:51 AM
I am with Zapper on the pony and gender thing.
Aside the fact that we live in a much more gender fluid world where people's experiences of gender are less binary and more relating to their own personal sense of identity, it's always bothered me that it's fine if girls like 'boyish' things but there's immediately so much hassle for guys who like 'girl' toys. Toys are toys and you like what you like. Sorry, but I thought that as a kid and still do as an adult.

I knew a bunch of male G1 fans back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Some have moved on (one because his mother found the pony collection he was hiding and made him get rid of it :( ) and some are still here. And I'm glad they are. But I've seen male G1-3 fans say before that G4 has made the whole thing more difficult for them because of the association with some of the bad things some male 'bronies' have done (which is not safe to discuss on this board, so I won't). And I hate that they have to feel that way.

@DreamValleyMLP - it's a really good point about the diversity as a sales pitch and yet we ended up smothered by M6 over and over again. They're not even learning from their own learning curve ><

I'm not really comfortable with the term 'differently abled' in general, nor with the assumption that disability has to be visible and that visible something should be a criteria to judge ability/disability. It's one of those hyper politically correct terms that pretends it's inclusive and accepting but really just comes over as patronising when it gets used in a broad context like this.

Unless differently abled in a pony sense means "not able to wear shoes properly." In which case count in Medley, Firefly and Sprinkles too...

I just find Faust annoying. I can't help it. There's nothing she says that I feel contributes. I would rather FIM had been created by someone with no connection to G1, because it's become like whatever she says or thinks about G1 = how G1 was, even if that isn't her intention. Because of who she is and what she did, they use her as the reference point.

She also comes over badly in that interview as "I know about this". But she doesn't. She knows about her childhood. And that is all. Her childhood wasn't the childhood of anyone else here.

I mean, my childhood involved ponies escaping zombie overlords. Does that make that 'how G1 was'? Nope.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 27, 2020, 02:45:53 AM
I'll say this: Someone on FiM's writing staff obviously had more competent knowledge of G1 story material than what Faust has demonstrated in interviews.

I mean, my childhood involved ponies escaping zombie overlords. Does that make that 'how G1 was'? Nope.
Indeed.

Although, that would not exactly have been out of place in the cartoon, and possibly not out of place in the comics either. :D
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Zapper on July 27, 2020, 07:01:01 AM
I am with Zapper on the pony and gender thing.
It's always bothered me that it's fine if girls like 'boyish' things but there's immediately so much hassle for guys who like 'girl' toys. Toys are toys and you like what you like. Sorry, but I thought that as a kid and still do as an adult.

You called my name, so here is a rant about the purpose of toys and why they are gendered :lol:

Spoiler
We have to remember that toys exist by and large because of social conditioning. Girls were given chore toys such as cleaning and cooking tools, toys that steered them towards the only acceptable female role in society: wife and mother, such as baby dolls, and later on beauty toys such as fashion dolls and play make-up to get an early grasp on how women should always go the extra mile to look attractive for their future husbands. Of course boys would be kept away from such toys. They go opposed to their gender role. And this is true even today. Nobody buys their son a make-up kit without getting weird remarks despite some of the richest make-up artists being men. Same for cooking tools. The industry is dominated by men but the cooking toy is still seen as a chore toy for girls, not a career path toy.

It was never ok for a girl to play soldiers or cars, it was deemed as odd and opposed to being "good" and girlish, girls who would express interest in boy toys where often kept a shameful secret or placed in "domestic training", lady school and all those "fun" clubs, they were even medicated and tortured. It's just that history recording is biased and female oppression was never an issue until the late 19th century, so we always kept track of what boys couldn't do and not really of what girls couldn't do. Girls not being able to do a thing was normalized and expected.

Only due to women's lib we got to a point where girls could express their interests more freely and ask for more spaces to be created for recreation specifically. Games and toys have always been a boy-centered market because boys were the ones expected to be wild and curious, girls were expected to be quiet and doing chore play, knitting, beautifying.

And then of course due to the gay panic in the 60s/70s people were suddenly watching their boys play behaviour like hawks. For girls it was more about looks. She wanted to cut her hair and not wear dresses? Possible lesbian. And neither was accepted.

Sorry but I am tired of this cliché that girls just out of the blue were allowed to have interest in boy stuff. It's due to women's rights movements we won that privilege. And considering most people in my country still assjme each girl who likes to play soccer instead of doing ballet is a secret lesbian... yeah, gendering kids interests and activiyies is alive and well. Girls are also not given Batman toys, they are given the Mattel Batgirl with oversized head and fashions :lol:

Toys will end being gendered the moment toy companies stop market research. And that won't end any time soon. What we can hope for is that more themes and shapes and gimmicks will become "gender neutral". Such as The Joker make-up heads along with warmongering MLPs :lol:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on July 27, 2020, 10:32:39 AM
There is not enough palm to contain all the face

that is the best way to describe the G4 drama
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Zargata on July 27, 2020, 10:58:49 AM
Looking back, at just the physical ponies, I think that not much has changed overall for me. I don't mind the modeled hair, I don't mind the increase pose-ability, and I think it is great to expand the product into a larger audience.

I feel my concerns with the current line is just the quality of the product. It has always bugged me how small the ponies were, how gross the hair got later on. Believe me, I wanted to like them, but I found myself keeping them in package more and more because I was afraid to find out how bad the product actually was underneath. Has my pony buying habits changed since the launch of the line? Yes.

I feel I am far more willing to shovel the extra cash at the Basic Fun line because I am buying a product closer to the original quality of the older lines.

My hope for the future is that they increase the quality of the product, less accessories more pony.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 27, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
Looking back, at just the physical ponies, I think that not much has changed overall for me. I don't mind the modeled hair, I don't mind the increase pose-ability, and I think it is great to expand the product into a larger audience.

I feel my concerns with the current line is just the quality of the product. It has always bugged me how small the ponies were, how gross the hair got later on. Believe me, I wanted to like them, but I found myself keeping them in package more and more because I was afraid to find out how bad the product actually was underneath. Has my pony buying habits changed since the launch of the line? Yes.

I feel I am far more willing to shovel the extra cash at the Basic Fun line because I am buying a product closer to the original quality of the older lines.

My hope for the future is that they increase the quality of the product, less accessories more pony.

Well said.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: brightberry on July 27, 2020, 11:17:50 AM
I'm really enjoying the conversation.  There is so much to say on this topic and I think you guys have said everything I wanted to.


The best franchise as I remember it was "Rescue at Midnight Castle" and "Escape from Catrina".  Backcards and the toys themselves made up the rest of my "canon".  I liked that most of my ponies came with vague personalities.  Even when they made appearances in those shows, most of the ponies only had a few lines.

I honestly thought My Little Pony went downhill when "My Little Pony and Friends" came out and when the commercials changed to "I'm a My Little Pony Mommy."   :lol:

I did still watch the show anyway because it was about ponies and I did appreciate that they went on some pretty dark adventures.  It was the animation and voices I had a problem with.


And, I loved My Little Pony because as a girl I no longer had to choose between adventurous "boy toys" and adorable "girl toys".  The ponies were both and that was amazing.  I don't know how to explain how it felt knowing that only boys had adventures and girls were their personal silly cheerleaders needing to be saved.  I didn't mind that boys had exciting roles.  I just dreamed of having my own. 


And Zapper is right.  It wasn't always acceptable for girls to like Boy's toys.  My parents were very uncomfortable that I also liked Transformers.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: banditpony on July 27, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
I stumbled across this the other day, while trying to find something else. I think it's sort of relevant?

Admittedly, I haven't had time to sit down and read it. I just know it's about girl's toy based cartoons.

http://refractory.unimelb.edu.au/2014/02/05/power-girls-katia-perea/
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on July 27, 2020, 07:57:59 PM
I did not have the exposure to the G1 TV show as a child.  We simply didn't own a TV.  Actually I still don't pay for TV channel access so I really have not seen too much G4.

So yes I understand what Lauren Faust is saying about how she played with her ponies as a child and how that shaped her ideas about their character design.  But she cannot and should not speak for everyone in the G1 era, which the show creators either realized, and didn't want to get into the nuances, or didn't ask any questions of the panelists that hinted at what the other interviewees might have said.  both are plausible!
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 27, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
I did grow up with both n Friends and Tales and I had some from the show. Gusty, Fizzy, Moondancer, Dazzle Glow, Shady, Salty, Sweet Stuff, Lickety-split, Princess Tiffany and Whizzer, they retained their characters, but I was just as happy with my ponies that were toy-only too. I loved the world of Dream Valley and it did influence some of my play.

I remember daydreaming about the Tales ponies too, about which toys I'd choose.

As an adult, it baffles me even more that we got the Glow n Shows and Rock n Beats here in the states, but never the actual Tales cast.

So for some of us yes, the cartoons did have an influence to some extent.

My daughter started with G3 and we thought it was all toys and merch, because there wasn't any toons I could find, so she did develop her pony play completely independent of its cartoon.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 27, 2020, 11:26:47 PM
Glowing Magic (GnS) and Rockin' Beats predate MLP Tales. They were older lines that got dragged into MLPT for some reason, I guess because they had a use at the time.

It was a bit weird here because you had the original comic incarnations of these ponies and then when Tales happened the Rockin Beats got reinvented. I don't think the Glowing Magic ponies ever appeared in the comics for MLPT, just in that animated episode with Patch (under the UK set name, more or less).

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 28, 2020, 06:28:27 AM
Glowing Magic (GnS) and Rockin' Beats predate MLP Tales. They were older lines that got dragged into MLPT for some reason, I guess because they had a use at the time.

It was a bit weird here because you had the original comic incarnations of these ponies and then when Tales happened the Rockin Beats got reinvented. I don't think the Glowing Magic ponies ever appeared in the comics for MLPT, just in that animated episode with Patch (under the UK set name, more or less).

I didn't know that. Interesting bit of history.

But in the 90s Tales is how I was introduced to the GnS and was thrilled when they started showing up in stores. Yet there were no Tales girls. Really wanted Clover, Patch, Bon Bon and Sweetheart, I was certain they'd be so pretty as toys. I'm still baffled that we never got the boys either. 

Everyone's childhood experience is a bit different. Some of us saw the shows. Some of us grew up in places where there were comics. Some of us had a Earth Pony Gingerbread and some of us grew up with a Unicorn Gingerbread.  It was all valid because it was what we had as individuals and depending on our country of residence.

Just as my daughter started getting into pony by playing with her ponies and coloring in her coloring books, while another kid was playing and watching the cartoon that we didn't even know about.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nightbow on July 29, 2020, 10:20:06 AM
Quote
We did get the Flutter ponies, though. Did you not have Rosedust over there?
I honestly don't know. I would have been too young to remember seeing them, and I never saw a flutter pony IRL 'til I was an adult collector.

Quote
I think I recall using that kind of weird logic with some of my own non-MLP toys as a child. If they were molded in a permanent sitting position I couldn't make it look like they were walking around and that bothered me, so I would come up with an explanation that they couldn't walk. Usually also give them some super-powered vehicle to cruise around in too. It just gets weird when you start presenting your bizarre childhood ideas in documentaries like TTMU.

I watched it and that is how I interpreted it too. Some poses were just not good for play, no matter how cute on display. I remember having this chap mei fakie baby that got to stay in the toybox, because her head was turned backwards. I love the idea of super-powered pony vehicles, LOL.

I think what the people in TTMU were saying was, we all played differently. We made up our own worlds and our own ponies' personalities. For me growing up in the early nineties that is especially true for G2, which I developed an expansive world for through play. Like Faust, they climbed my bed as a mountain, and the mat was a meadow, and so on. So I think Faust is misinterpreted by both retro pony fans and bronies? Her word isn't law, she just used her own childhood play sessions to build a pony world for TV. I honestly can't think of a better way to make a MLP TV show. What bothers me is Hasbro stopped Faust from using ideas that would have been a sweet throwback to G1, but as soon as Faust abandoned ship brony pandering started to run rampant.

Not that I'm trying to defend Faust like she was the best thing to ever happen to MLP. Living in cupcakes? What was that all about?

ETA: What disappointed me the most was the G1 fan they interviewed, mentioning that the ponies lived in Ponyville. It bothers me that a supposed retro fan wouldn't know that G1 ponies live in Dream Valley, and Ponyville wasn't a thing until G3.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 29, 2020, 11:06:58 AM
G1 ponies lived in Ponyland over here. Not Dream Valley ;)

But yeah, that is a detail.

I don't know if it's misinterpreted or if it's the army of brony has made so much of it the two mesh together, but I can't watch the TTMU interview without feeling like the show handled that interview as a showpiece with her idea of G1 = G1 and there wasn't a lot of exploration about what G1 was outside of how Faust saw it except "there was no canon". I loved all the stuff about the toy history and so on, but the show hit a brick wall when it realised there wasn't a FIM canon, and then went to the creator of the FIM canon to patch up the holes.

I think it's also though that as yet I've not seen her say anything that gives me faith she based any of FIM on G1. I think it came out of her imagination - which is entirely fine, don't get me wrong, that's where it should come from - but then it got tied to G1 in a far bigger way than was actually the case.

It's not that I think Faust is a bad thing to happen for MLP, either. I just agree with whoever said she shouldn't be interviewed on G1 as any kind of authority. She should be interviewed about G4. If you want actual fans of mLP, they should've interviewed the people whose collections they showed in the titles. Their diverse views of it would've been much more accurate and refreshing an image of G1's world than the FIM creator.

Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 29, 2020, 11:31:11 AM
G1 ponies lived in Ponyland over here. Not Dream Valley ;)

But yeah, that is a detail.

I don't know if it's misinterpreted or if it's the army of brony has made so much of it the two mesh together, but I can't watch the TTMU interview without feeling like the show handled that interview as a showpiece with her idea of G1 = G1 and there wasn't a lot of exploration about what G1 was outside of how Faust saw it except "there was no canon". I loved all the stuff about the toy history and so on, but the show hit a brick wall when it realised there wasn't a FIM canon, and then went to the creator of the FIM canon to patch up the holes.

I think it's also though that as yet I've not seen her say anything that gives me faith she based any of FIM on G1. I think it came out of her imagination - which is entirely fine, don't get me wrong, that's where it should come from - but then it got tied to G1 in a far bigger way than was actually the case.

It's not that I think Faust is a bad thing to happen for MLP, either. I just agree with whoever said she shouldn't be interviewed on G1 as any kind of authority. She should be interviewed about G4. If you want actual fans of mLP, they should've interviewed the people whose collections they showed in the titles. Their diverse views of it would've been much more accurate and refreshing an image of G1's world than the FIM creator.

You'd think they'd have interviewed the people who wrote it, instead of a person who didn't.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Carrehz on July 29, 2020, 11:43:55 AM
I thought it was Dream Valley which was a part of Ponyland? Except for that one weird UK video tape that got the wrong end of the stick and said they lived in "Dreamland" :P

Still haven't seen the TTMU ep - didn't they interview any of the MLP and Friends writers??? What the... I mean, I get it, Faust's probably easier to get a hold of, but still... I agree, I'd rather they interviewed some fans, instead (assuming they couldn't get a hold of anyone actually involved with G1, I mean). I mean, if you were making a FiM documentary, you wouldn't interview some of the G1 writers for it, right?
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 29, 2020, 02:10:46 PM
I thought it was Dream Valley which was a part of Ponyland? Except for that one weird UK video tape that got the wrong end of the stick and said they lived in "Dreamland" :P
Yeah, Dream Valley isn't the name of the whole realm, just the region where Dream Castle, the Lullabye Nursery, and Paradise Estate are. But I believe it's a name exclusive to the cartoon, while Ponyland is used in both the cartoon and the UK comics.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 29, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
I thought it was Dream Valley which was a part of Ponyland? Except for that one weird UK video tape that got the wrong end of the stick and said they lived in "Dreamland" :P
Yeah, Dream Valley isn't the name of the whole realm, just the region where Dream Castle, the Lullabye Nursery, and Paradise Estate are. But I believe it's a name exclusive to the cartoon, while Ponyland is used in both the cartoon and the UK comics.

Yep, I think that's about correct. I don't remember DV appearing in the comic but it might. A lot of other regions appear in the comic, but all within 'Ponyland' so it makes sense to think of DV as being in Ponyland. I'm not sure that's ever stated though...

Also my post above shouldve said about G1 not having a canon. I have no brain sometimes.

They interviewed Faust and Summer. And Summer was IMO either asked bad questions or badly spliced.

There are no other people interviewed as far as I remember as 'G1' fans. Even though they used collections in the closing titles, they didn't speak to the collectors. Faust is not a collector. Summer is, but yeah, her contributions seem mangled to me. 

I can't remember, do they talk to the writers of RAMC? They mention it at least. They don't talk to the writers of any of the others. I am trying to remember whether Christy Marx had a writing credit on that (she's very active in the Jem fandom as the creator of Jem's bible). Ditto Roger Slifer who also worked on Jem (but he has sadly passed away). There were also a lot of crossover voice artists. Some of those have also passed away, but there are some who have also been involved with Jem things  so could have been talked to about the MLP show (if they wanted to go down the line of someone who actually was involved in it).

Faust has two lots of airtime - as a fan of G1 and as a writer of FIM and (to me personally) comes over as a bit 'pleased with herself' about her version of G1 world. But that also could be bad splicing/questions. It's hard to tell and I am generally biased against her speaking about G1 since she clearly has no idea what G1 actually contained outside of her own interpretation.

Again, no issue with her version, as a fan, growing up. Just with having it imposed on everyone as 'how G1 was' when that misses the point of G1 being individual to each person.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Carrehz on July 29, 2020, 02:31:29 PM
George Arthur Bloom wrote RaMC - I just checked and neither Christy Marx nor Roger Slifer are credited for that one.

I can't remember if Dream Valley appears anywhere outside of the cartoon... I want to say it does, but it's entirely possible I'm just misremembering/mixing up continuities. :x
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 29, 2020, 03:01:10 PM
If they were going to interview someone about G1, it should have been Bonnie Zacherle. I mean, really, who better than the franchise's original creator?
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 29, 2020, 03:06:12 PM
Well, TTTMU is specifically a show about toys.  Not media, movies, or cartoons.  Generally they only talk about cartoons if it adds some context or explanation to the toyline. 

"Transformers was a very popular show, which fueled the success of the TF toyline."  That's relevant to the toys.  "The reason Optimus was killed in the 1986 movie was to clear the shelves for new toy characters."  That's relevant to the toys. 

"MLP & Friends was a show, but MLP was already the #1 selling girls toy before RaMC was even released, and also a lot of non-show ponies are pretty much as popular if not more as the actual show characters."  (Was any kid going to cry because they got Sugarberry instead of BBE Baby Shady?  TAF ponies forever, just saying.)  "Also there was a second show that aired in the US after the MLP toyline was completely dead there."  Okay, so . . . that's not really deserving of a lot of screentime.  It doesn't add any additional insight into why the toys became so popular or show a specific way that the show drove sales.  It's like having a segment devoted to MLP party hats.  Yeah, they existed and, yeah, they were a sign of MLP being popular.  But they weren't why it was popular.

Interestingly, I was talking to one of my nerdy but non-MLP friends (who does collect toys, just not MLP) what he didn't like was . . . Bonnie Zacherle.  I guess he didn't really care about the "who originally created MLP?" aspect, plus she left near the beginning of the line, plus she wanted the ponies to be natural colors, and all this added up to his opinion of "she shouldn't have had so much screentime." 

@ZeldaTheSwordsman   They . . . did?  She got a ton of screentime.  (And personally I was happy to see her even if my friend wasn't, lol.)  Did you not watch the episode?

Or did you mean they should have interviewed her about G1 as a whole?  But why would she know anything that happened with the toyline after she left?  Which was right at the start of G1.  The only ponies she personally designed were the Collector ponies.  We did get some interesting insights into them, though.  Like learning that one of them (Blossom) was named after her cat.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 29, 2020, 03:26:22 PM
No, I did not watch the episode. I don't watch TTTMU. And all the complaining about the Lauren Faust interview with little mention of anyone else made it sound as if she was almost the sole interviewee.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 29, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
No, I did not watch the episode. I don't watch TTTMU. And all the complaining about the Lauren Faust interview with little mention of anyone else made it sound as if she was almost the sole interviewee.

I think you can just read it as that was the annoying part of an otherwise generalised but reasonable episode :)

G1 should be about the toys, and I agree that's the focus of TTMU. Which is another reason Faust doesn't belong there.

(Personally my favourite trivia was the Dream Castle guy and Spike!)
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Snapdragon on July 29, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
I need to watch the TTMU episode, clearly it's a hot topic! (I already wanted to see it, but I was preemptively disappointed knowing it was going into it with 'look at these wacky Bronies!' as the clear subplot, LOL.)

To address the original post (because I know everyone's eager to see how I feel about this topic, I'm sure! :P), I don't think the franchise will ever be how it was... but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Yes, I basically loathed how many of the memes or fandom hints snuck into the MLP:FiM show; but I can see how they got there. A lot of modern cartoons for kids will have little hints of adult-angled humor. Not NSFW material, but little commentaries, little references that won't harm kids, but that might make adults laugh. For example; the DuckTales reboot, I LOVE. It's exciting, and action-packed, and I think the average kid would love it! One of my favorite gags was when the villain Glomgold got to direct the opening song for one episode, and he ends the theme song with "okay we ran out of budget/but kids six to ten will love it!/GLOMTALES!" It's a meta joke about budgets and media popularity, so adults will get a chuckle and kids might scratch their heads, but ultimately aren't harmed.

I don't think FiM managed to do that, especially in later seasons. The episode about an annoying, pedantic fan of Daring Do? A little edgy, because you could potentially be insulting the very kids who love this show and attend conventions, but not necessarily harmful. The body pillow references, complete with unhappy Daring Do tied up with a rope? Beyond the pale.  This is stuff that an exec should have seen and went, 'why are we showing this to children?' I'm usually anti censorship from executive figures who don't necessarily understand children's media, but this is something that I would have liked censored out of existence.

So, will MLP ever return to 'elongated commercial for toys with fantasy type plots'? Maybe, maybe not. But that doesn't mean it has to be the same offensive material they've been putting out, either. I think, if they re-animated the exact same episodes we had in MLP and Friends and the other G1 cartoons, we'd probably hate it, because it's already been done. I tend to dislike revamps of movies that are exactly the same, because it feels like a waste of effort. I'm sure we'll see more and more revisions of the MLP series in the future (if it's still a moneymaker, we definitely will!), and I wouldn't be against it having the occasional tongue-in-cheek jokes that, say, DuckTales has, because I think it has the capacity to be a lot of fun! I think so long as you're writing jokes for 'parents' and not 'fandom adults', there's less risk of things going sideways into skeeze-land.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Taffeta on July 29, 2020, 04:52:00 PM
TBH the eighties had nods to cultural material or events as well, it's not a new thing or a FIM thing.

I still remember an episode of the Turtles called "the Maltese Hamster"...

And I'm pretty sure there's a reason why that ice cream guy in Ice Cream Wars has a dodgy scottish accent.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ChocolateStarfire on July 29, 2020, 04:52:26 PM
I would like to know how early gen fans feel, and whether you guys think that the pony franchise will ever Return to the way it was before. Not largely  influenced by and made then onward by an adamant and vocal fandom.
On the flip side, are there any positive elements that you might think can result in fandom influence in future pony generations?

I don't think the MLP franchise will return to the way it was--each generation sees a new incarnation of MLP, regardless of how vocal the fan community is. I do feel that there might be a separate collectors' line (like the retro MLP re-releases) but that will be it. I am not a fan of the Pony Life series out now, and I have a feeling if it is popular among kids, that will be the direction of MLP in future (cartoony, with giant heads and tiny bodies, like G3.5).

I grew to like G4 MLPs, in terms of both the toys and the show. The brony situation was from the 4-chan/furry community, and tbh I wasn't keen on their...interests, let's put it that way. Did Hasbro pander to them? Eh, yes and no. Bronies did buy a lot of merch, so in that sense Hasbro saw their input as valuable, but other than that...expendable like all other fandoms.

I'm not familiar with this show you're mentioning from Netflix, as I don't have it rn, but I am curious about it so I will have to watch it some other time.

I don't think FiM managed to do that, especially in later seasons. The episode about an annoying, pedantic fan of Daring Do? A little edgy, because you could potentially be insulting the very kids who love this show and attend conventions, but not necessarily harmful. The body pillow references, complete with unhappy Daring Do tied up with a rope? Beyond the pale.  This is stuff that an exec should have seen and went, 'why are we showing this to children?' I'm usually anti censorship from executive figures who don't necessarily understand children's media, but this is something that I would have liked censored out of existence.

Wait...what about Daring Do being tied up? I don't remember that from the episode!! D:
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Nemesis on July 29, 2020, 05:38:23 PM
I am with Zapper on the pony and gender thing.
It's always bothered me that it's fine if girls like 'boyish' things but there's immediately so much hassle for guys who like 'girl' toys. Toys are toys and you like what you like. Sorry, but I thought that as a kid and still do as an adult.

You called my name, so here is a rant about the purpose of toys and why they are gendered :lol:

Spoiler
We have to remember that toys exist by and large because of social conditioning. Girls were given chore toys such as cleaning and cooking tools, toys that steered them towards the only acceptable female role in society: wife and mother, such as baby dolls, and later on beauty toys such as fashion dolls and play make-up to get an early grasp on how women should always go the extra mile to look attractive for their future husbands. Of course boys would be kept away from such toys. They go opposed to their gender role. And this is true even today. Nobody buys their son a make-up kit without getting weird remarks despite some of the richest make-up artists being men. Same for cooking tools. The industry is dominated by men but the cooking toy is still seen as a chore toy for girls, not a career path toy.

It was never ok for a girl to play soldiers or cars, it was deemed as odd and opposed to being "good" and girlish, girls who would express interest in boy toys where often kept a shameful secret or placed in "domestic training", lady school and all those "fun" clubs, they were even medicated and tortured. It's just that history recording is biased and female oppression was never an issue until the late 19th century, so we always kept track of what boys couldn't do and not really of what girls couldn't do. Girls not being able to do a thing was normalized and expected.

Only due to women's lib we got to a point where girls could express their interests more freely and ask for more spaces to be created for recreation specifically. Games and toys have always been a boy-centered market because boys were the ones expected to be wild and curious, girls were expected to be quiet and doing chore play, knitting, beautifying.

And then of course due to the gay panic in the 60s/70s people were suddenly watching their boys play behaviour like hawks. For girls it was more about looks. She wanted to cut her hair and not wear dresses? Possible lesbian. And neither was accepted.

Sorry but I am tired of this cliché that girls just out of the blue were allowed to have interest in boy stuff. It's due to women's rights movements we won that privilege. And considering most people in my country still assjme each girl who likes to play soccer instead of doing ballet is a secret lesbian... yeah, gendering kids interests and activiyies is alive and well. Girls are also not given Batman toys, they are given the Mattel Batgirl with oversized head and fashions :lol:

Toys will end being gendered the moment toy companies stop market research. And that won't end any time soon. What we can hope for is that more themes and shapes and gimmicks will become "gender neutral". Such as The Joker make-up heads along with warmongering MLPs :lol:

Agreeing with so much of this! The gendering-of-toys issue has gotten better over the years, but it still has a long way to go. Certainly women’s lib and gender equality activists deserve due credit!

I do feel like the GoH Twilight Sparkle came pretty close to “My Warmongering Pony”, lol. XD
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 29, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
TBH the eighties had nods to cultural material or events as well, it's not a new thing or a FIM thing.

I still remember an episode of the Turtles called "the Maltese Hamster"...

And I'm pretty sure there's a reason why that ice cream guy in Ice Cream Wars has a dodgy scottish accent.
Yeah, odds are preeeetty darn good that Fudgy McSwain's accent is a Montgomery Scott reference.

I've also seen people compare Wind Whistler to Spock but I don't know that that's as solid.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 29, 2020, 09:37:23 PM
No, I did not watch the episode. I don't watch TTTMU. And all the complaining about the Lauren Faust interview with little mention of anyone else made it sound as if she was almost the sole interviewee.

Ah, okay. Yeah, that's not the case at all.  Lauren Faust was interviewed for a few minutes and talked about how she played with the toys as a kid.  G1 collector Summer Hayes was interviewed in a similar manner, talking about the various toys.  (Favorite line: "This is totally not crack-pipe pony."
LOL.)

Most of the episode was about the creation of MLP and the contentious disagreement about who was the "real" creator of it (since Bonnie Zacherle and that one vice-president guy both claim credit . . . I totally believe it's Bonnie.)  Bonnie got a HUUUGE segment and fully explained her childhood love of ponies and how she designed the first MLPs.  They showed her prototype ponies (the natural horse-colored ones) and those beautiful, clear shots are the closest that most of us will get to them unless we're lucky enough to attend a MLP Fair that Bonnie's at.

And they also had several designers and sculptors from G1 over the years.  Including a guy who was instructed to design the Pretty Parlor and the lady in charge of his department kept coming by, inspecting his work, and instructing him to "pink it up."  (I don't think in the literal "color pink" sense but more like add more hearts, make it more bubbly, etc.)

It was very insightful and fun!
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 29, 2020, 09:51:54 PM
No, I did not watch the episode. I don't watch TTTMU. And all the complaining about the Lauren Faust interview with little mention of anyone else made it sound as if she was almost the sole interviewee.

Ah, okay. Yeah, that's not the case at all.  Lauren Faust was interviewed for a few minutes and talked about how she played with the toys as a kid.  G1 collector Summer Hayes was interviewed in a similar manner, talking about the various toys.  (Favorite line: "This is totally not crack-pipe pony."
LOL.)

Most of the episode was about the creation of MLP and the contentious disagreement about who was the "real" creator of it (since Bonnie Zacherle and that one vice-president guy both claim credit . . . I totally believe it's Bonnie.)  Bonnie got a HUUUGE segment and fully explained her childhood love of ponies and how she designed the first MLPs.  They showed her prototype ponies (the natural horse-colored ones) and those beautiful, clear shots are the closest that most of us will get to them unless we're lucky enough to attend a MLP Fair that Bonnie's at.

And they also had several designers and sculptors from G1 over the years.  Including a guy who was instructed to design the Pretty Parlor and the lady in charge of his department kept coming by, inspecting his work, and instructing him to "pink it up."  (I don't think in the literal "color pink" sense but more like add more hearts, make it more bubbly, etc.)

It was very insightful and fun!

I just hafta ask, was the crack pipe pony a BBE? XD
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 29, 2020, 11:37:35 PM
You take that back, you big meanie!
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 30, 2020, 05:05:33 AM
LOL no, it was one of the Soda Sipping ponies.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: SpacePinto on July 30, 2020, 06:01:59 AM
I thought it was Dream Valley which was a part of Ponyland?

Indeed it was, at the end of "The Return of Tambelon Part 1" Grogar says: "Today Dream Valley, tomorrow all of Ponyland"
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 30, 2020, 10:13:49 AM
LOL no, it was one of the Soda Sipping ponies.

:lmao: I would have never made that connection.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: Carrehz on July 30, 2020, 12:11:17 PM
I thought it was Dream Valley which was a part of Ponyland?

Indeed it was, at the end of "The Return of Tambelon Part 1" Grogar says: "Today Dream Valley, tomorrow all of Ponyland"

Thank you! I was sure they said it outright at some point, but I just couldn't think of a specific moment.
Title: Re: Will the franchise ever be how it was, again?
Post by: flutterscotch on July 30, 2020, 01:29:44 PM
I dunno, I was there at the Hasbro My Little Pony Fair where they unveiled the "Core 7" and went on and on about their "focus group" wanting it (which, I kinda question their selection criteria).   I am sure that's why we went into so many iterations of the Mane 6 to begin with, and then it got doubled down on when a bunch of dudes screamed about show accuracy and people were shelling out hundreds for custom plushes that Hasbro wasn't getting a part of the action on.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal