The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Pop!Star on April 02, 2015, 11:14:04 AM
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Let's get down to the science of it y'all!!
I understand a lot if members are here now because of the G4 cartoon, and are generally new collectors. So you all may not know what us collectors went through with the end of G3 and the beginning of G3.5
Basically Hasbro did this before only releasing the same 6 ponies over and over again.
This ultimately failed and we got G4, which in the beginning seemed like they were going to release new ponies..which they did..and them immediately reverted back to the same ponies over and over again.
Every time I walk into TRU, or Target the pony sections stay untouched.
The only ponies ever bought are new ones, and I don't see why Hasbro hasn't caught on yet.
There's no need for rerealeses of the Mane6 because all those rerealeses you manufactured last new series are..still..sitting on the shelves.
Hasbro doesn't seem to realize why MLP was popular in the 80's because it was a collectible toy.
Now everything just sits on the shelves until it clearences out.
Hasbro, if you'd put something new ok the shelves you might make a sale.
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That exactly sums up how I feel. :/
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Well, there are Sweetie Drops (new as brushable) and Skywishes (new in the US) and Diamond Mint (new as brushable) out now, and rereleases of less commonish Flower Wishes and Sunset Shimmer, plus Roseluck and Amethyst Star and Lyra Heartstrings and Sweetie Drops and Cheerilee in the EQG section, and soon Roseluck (new as brushable) and Maude Pie and Lavender Honey and Lily Valley (new as brushable) and Lotus Blossom (new as brushable) and Helia (new as brushable) and Maneiac (new in playful pony size) and Coco Pommel and that one purple villain pony coming soon...
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Well, there are Sweetie Drops (new as brushable) and Skywishes (new in the US) and Diamond Mint (new as brushable) out now, and rereleases of less commonish Flower Wishes and Sunset Shimmer, plus Roseluck and Amethyst Star and Lyra Heartstrings and Sweetie Drops and Cheerilee in the EQG section, and soon Roseluck (new as brushable) and Maude Pie and Lavender Honey and Lily Valley (new as brushable) and Lotus Blossom (new as brushable) and Helia (new as brushable) and Maneiac (new in playful pony size) and Coco Pommel and that one purple villain pony coming soon...
and those are selling quite well, I assume. Because they're new characters. But many of those will most likely never be released again, while the overproduced Mane 6 will be all over the place and not that many will be bought. That's the point that Pop!Star was trying to make.
My personal favorites from G4 are none of the mane 6, actually. I like a lot of the 'background characters' way more than the main ones. That's why I loved G3 so much (even though they had characters like Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash that were considered 'main', they somehow weren't overused and annoying), and keep falling more and more in love with G1. That's the same reason I loved the 'old' Littlest Pet Shop toys. Because there were no 'main' ones.
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I agree with VioletCLM that there are a bunch of new characters being made, and I'm really happy about it. But we're never gonna get away from having the mane 6 re released. They've got to keep them front and center because when a girl sees the show (Read: 22 Minute Advertisement) They need to be able to get one of the main characters at any store and any time - that's the tie in.
But if we can have the best of Both Worlds,... we'll get a mix of new characters, (Honey Rays, Diamond Mint, etc) in addition to the Mane 6. I'll be happy with that.
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I do wish they would have tons of different characters- like G1- but I don't think we will ever see that again.
Here's why. Your average kid is not a "collector" of ponies. She or he doesn't want every G4 pony every made. They want the ones that they know from the cartoon (which is not so secretly- a commercial).
I can tell you that my nieces were totally obsessed with ponies after watching the cartoon- and who did they want to play with (selected from my hoard) - Twilight, Celestia, Nitghmare Moon and Cadence. They were also more or less interested in having the other mane characters that they recognized from the show- but to a lesser degree. They absolutely did NOT want any of my background character ponies :cry:
I don't think they are so different than any other little girls- who are the primary marketing target for ponies- and probably the people who most ponies are bought for.
So basically Hasbro probably does make some new characters for those kids that are new to MLP - and a small percentage of new characters for the "collectors" of ponies (or for the few kids that never tire of them).
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I think it all comes down to how different the current show is from the G1 cartoon where they met different ponies every time or G3 where the show was limited to a few direct to DVD specials. Look at Monster High. They keep adding new characters but they also still pump out Frankie and Draculaura and Clawdeen.
Tho I'm wondering when I'll actually see the new ponies.
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I'm not sure about this. I think it's sad that Hasbro have taken this line.
On the one hand, the TV series constantly features these core six. That means that they always have to be on sale, to draw in any new fans of the show, as I think someone has said. Reworking them therefore makes sense, because Hasbro want to try and persuade kids who already have the originals that MAYBE they want a different one with rainbow hair or glittery cutie mark. I guess it's like SS Posey vs original Posey?
On the other hand, though, I think that Hasbro are working for the quick fix. I don't think as much thought goes into this line outside of the cartoon as has gone into previous. The G1 ponies all had individual stories and characters thought out for them right up till late in the line, but the G4 (and I think G3, maybe G2) never had this really. They have fleeting remarks on their cards, but Hasbro rely on kids knowing who they are from watching FIM. I suspect that, if FIM stopped, the toys would stop too - because, unlike G1, the toyline is not separable from the FIM series. The G1 cartoon is very minor in my mind compared to all the sets that were sold, since it ran for a limited time and featured limited ponies.
I've also noticed a few worrying things here in the UK. I do see kids buying G4, playing with G4, clutching huge pony plushes and stuff around town - but the stores that stock them near where I live seem to be discounting them before they even hit the shelves. For example, I just came back from Lincoln today, and during my trip I bought Diamond Mint and Photo Finish as souvenirs. Diamond Mint was already discounted by £2 and Photo Finish was part of a buy 1 get 1 half price offer.
I don't see the core six moving very much here, either. If a different pony appears, it does tend to disappear in a few weeks, but there are always tons of Fluttershy, Rarity, Pinkie Pie etc.
It reminds me of how much more difficult it is to find a 2nd edition Medley, Firefly, Bow Tie or Applejack, or a Second Edition Posey or CJ here in the UK. The kids already had them from the first year, so Hasbro's rerelease just picked up the new kids or the ones who somehow missed out in the first issue. I kinda think that, by clinging to the Core 6 so much, Hasbro are reducing the potential of their product.
That and the fact that some stores here would rather stack piles of boxes up in front of the aisle and not unpack them when the shelves are more or less empty...
One last thing I noticed here in the UK, too - though this may in part be due to bad stockage in my area - is that a lot of the not core 6 ponies do not make it here. If they do, as I said, they get snapped up - but they don't often appear. I found a couple of ponies in Lille in France that I never saw in shops here (since I only tend to pick up FIM ponies as souvenirs from holidays xD). I wonder whether Hasbro's distribution of other ponies is as keen as it should be. I think they are denting the longevity of their product by obsessing over the core six. Yes, they need to be on sale all the time - but it wouldn't hurt to introduce one or two sets of entirely new characters with unique features at the same time...
When I was a kid, collecting Gen 1 ponies, I took great pride and care in selecting the pony from each set I was going to spend my money on, and I was always excited by the new characters, styles, ideas that came out each year. If I was a kid now, the core 6 reissues would probably have put me off MLP. I think Hasbro underestimate the way young girls think - and the ones who might spend the most money with them over the years to come are missing out because of it. If they want to capture the kids' imagination for a year, then the reissues might work, but if they want to capture the kids' loyalty and spending for several years, they need to think outside of the character box as well as all these gimmicks.
All of that said, I will admit that Photo Finish fascinates me ;)
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All I can say is, Hasbro is very interested in making money. When G4 fails, it will eventually be phased out of stores. Until then-- they will continue to do what their marketing team feels like will make the company money.
I think it's good that they have all of the mane 6 out all the time. If I was a kid attached to a TV series, I'd want to get my favorite character...How many people complain that Applejack isn't distributed enough... So if none of the characters were around after their original release, I think there would be a lot of people wanting them to be rereleased. I get it that people are sick of the re releases... but I think there is a good reason they are always available.
I only collect Fashion Size ponies. This year I got Sunset Shimmer, Daisy Dreams, and will be getting Coco Pommel when she comes out. I'm pretty excited, that's more than any other year.
Plus those snowglobe ponies were pretty sweet, although I won't be picking any up.
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I agree that Hasbro is only concerned with their bottom-line, and not so much about adult collectors (except for like the comicon ponies).
I wish that it was like the 80s, with a bazillion ponies to choose from, but at the same time - I'm kind of relieved its not, because my wallet couldn't handle it! I'm still trying to get the 80s ponies lol.
What I wish for G4 is that they would focus more on the secondary and tertiary characters. I get the mane six, and I don't mind seeing versions of them, but I'd also like to see common releases of Zecora, the CMC, Photo Finish, the Apple family, the Changelings, Cadance, Shining Armor, etc. And of course :muffin: Pony ^-^
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Consumer habits towards toys were extremely different in the 80's. It wasn't until the late 90's and 00's that we saw the rabid marketing strategies that we do now.
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I think part of them problem is Hasbro isn't selling characters anymore. In G1, each pony had a story and they came in a variety of lively poses. G4 is a small, blurb about their vague personality and come in few poses that lack any life to them. The Sunbow/Marvel cartoon really only helped Year 4 when it had a full run and featured just about all of the ponies released in America that year.
G4 relies on Friendship is Magic to develop an investment by potential customers. However, the show only cares about the Mane 6, princesses, and CMC. The clique is completely insulated, and other ponies serve no purpose in the story beyond ballast. The show doesn't care about them, so why should anyone else?
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It's rather ironic that the show--which for all intents and purposes was likely meant as a glorified commercial--is actually bad for the toy line it's trying to sell. Whether or not G4 itself is doing well, I feel that the repetition is bad for the overall MLP brand. To put it blunt, we all know Hasbro can do better. They've done it before. And I'm saing this as someone whose gateway into MLP was actually Friendship is Magic.
I don't know how I would have felt as a little girl... Unless I compare the mane 6 to Barbie and recall vividly that I usually wanted the characters in sets that weren't her. I had lots of Barbie (the character) and having her hang out with clones of herself was just plain boring. For Barbie, the clothes were a huge selling point and were what drew me to the dolls, but that only lasted so long.
Now, as an adult with limited collecting space, I don't have the room or the desire to collect 600 versions of Pinkie Pie. (Yes, I realize that's a big, made up number.). When I very first started collecting, I thought I was going to have Rarity and Fluttershy armies, but despite my love for their characters in FiM, the designs put out for them just don't justify having multiple versions of them instead of unique looking ponies from earlier generations.
Further, I am actually not compelled to collect the extras from G4. Since Hasbro has taken no time to really develop them the way they did with ponies in their earlier generations there is no real spark to them. Plus, now that I've gotten so much more into researching earlier gens, the designs and posing of many G4s seem bland and lifeless to me. And as someone who actually does play with the ponies she owns by making up stories and taking photos, G4 is actually of less value to me because of how developed the repeated characters are. There isn't as much leeway for me to develop them in whatever way I want to so that they feel like they are mine and are joining my world / herd / whatever you want to call it. (Based on watching my niece "play" over the past few years though, I have to wonder if kids have started being born without imagination. Kinda sad really.) <-- This could be a big part of why FiM and G4 were planned as they were.
So unfortunately for me, I don't go to the store and find MLP stuff I actually want as much as I initially hoped / thought I would. But at least I can visit places like the Arena and MLPTP and find people selling the older generations which have gradually become my areas of focus.
Makes me wonder, though... Kids might be okay buying the sixth version of Twilight Sparkle, but how do parents justify the repeat attacks on their wallets? Most of the repeated mane 6 stuff just doesn't warrant a repeat purchase, at least for me.
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Consider there are a bunch of brightly coloured horses with brushable hair, stamps on their butts, and some variation of "My Adjective Equine", and varying degrees of looking exactly alike the real deal. Hasbro need more than ever to have their products stand out, so they are creating their brand around what are essentially mascot characters. It's the same reason why Pokemon wheels out Pikachu each generation even though there are literally hundreds of other Pokemon, many of which never make it into production as toys. Why? Because people see Pikachu and instantly associate him with Pokemon amongst all the other colourful monster toys eg. Digimon . This is also why there are a gazillion figures of Ash/Satoshi and maybe one or two of the other characters if you're lucky. It's the same of any series that features main characters, and then side characters - the mains get merchandise first, if they sell well, then they'll maybe trial the side characters. In sets of trading figures from Japanese series where each character is represented, the focus characters usually end up being the most sought after. More people want figures of Harry Potter than, say, Lavender Brown, or a toy of Simba and not Serabi, Elsa over the Duke of
Weaseltown Whistleton (heck, Disney have made a mint on Frozen literally just selling merchandise of the same two characters over and over and over). There may well be a demand for toys of those other characters, but it's a risk for the company as they might shelf-warm. With ponies it's hard to say as distribution is shockingly poor - some waves, mane six and not, have previously disappeared from an area for good within a week because clearly stores only ordered the one lot. Others, stores have visibly ordered many boxes of one wave and so they sit and sit and sit (especially as the UK idea of "clearance" is to reduce something by like 10%) It's actually been a fairly interesting pattern - One wave will sell well, so the stores will order loads of the next wave which inevitably shelf warm so they don't buy any of the next wave or only buy one box, which sells super fast, and then they buy loads of the next wave thinking it's a huge hit. Rinse, repeat.
Kids (or more importantly, their parents, etc, where the money generally is) are more likely to recognise the main six than random background ponies - maybe they only saw a handful of episodes and Big Mac/Spitfire/Zecora/etc didn't feature in any of them. They're not going to know who that character is and would probably pass them up in favour of one they recognise - eg. "I saw this toy I recognised from that show you love and bought it for you". Hasbro can't just stop producing the mane six, as they're hoping new fans will be coming to the series all the time and be wanting the main characters. Maybe they could even out the new characters a bit (but, there are new brushables in the CMM core line, Photo Finish, Coco Pomel, Diamond Mint, Honey Rays, Maud Pie, Mane-iac etc) and stop having so many exclusives, but it looks like exclusivity is big business right now.
Things aimed at kids seem to bloom and then die really, really quickly - loom bands, Moshi Monsters, etc - they seem to peak for about six months to a year and then that's it - every time I'm on FB or Ebay someone is selling a huge collection from one series or another that are usually less than a year old and are being sold because their kid has lost interest. If that is the life cycle of a toy line, then it's no wonder Hasbro are continually wheeling out gimmick after gimmick and not really marketing to long time collectors because, frankly, we're in the minority.
And - Hasbro's toy designers are just plain lazy. Really, really lazy. The toys have one single personality. They like friendship and "girl stuff" or some variation thereof. Twilight comes with purses instead of books or telescopes. Celestia, the age-old ruler, has nothing to say aside "I like having my hair brushed teehee" etc.
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"And - Hasbro's toy designers are just plain lazy. Really, really lazy. The toys have one single personality. They like friendship and "girl stuff" or some variation thereof. Twilight comes with purses instead of books or telescopes. Celestia, the age-old ruler, has nothing to say aside "I like having my hair brushed teehee" etc."
^This.
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I just want to add-- I *really* don't think Hasbro expects parents to buy 100 of the same pinkie pie. Maybe one, two, or three. I think its more so that they want a pinkie pie out at all times, and it would be extremely stagnant for it to be the same one with out a gimmick.
I believe, it's usually the buyer that dictates what "line" they have. Target doesn't want to carry 100% percent the same product that Walmart or TRU carries.The buyer has a hand in dictating where the line goes, not just the designers.
I've noticed sometimes designers have their jobs dictated to them by trend reports and buyer needs--- and they dont get much artistic freedom. You could say laziness, but I bet it's more deep than that.
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I do wish they would have tons of different characters- like G1- but I don't think we will ever see that again.
Here's why. Your average kid is not a "collector" of ponies. She or he doesn't want every G4 pony every made. They want the ones that they know from the cartoon (which is not so secretly- a commercial).
I can tell you that my nieces were totally obsessed with ponies after watching the cartoon- and who did they want to play with (selected from my hoard) - Twilight, Celestia, Nitghmare Moon and Cadence. They were also more or less interested in having the other mane characters that they recognized from the show- but to a lesser degree. They absolutely did NOT want any of my background character ponies :cry:
I don't think they are so different than any other little girls- who are the primary marketing target for ponies- and probably the people who most ponies are bought for.
So basically Hasbro probably does make some new characters for those kids that are new to MLP - and a small percentage of new characters for the "collectors" of ponies (or for the few kids that never tire of them).
I actually don't agree with you at all!
Little girls DO want to collect more ponies, my Neice has become disinterested in MLP and moved onto other collectibles such as Monster High, Ever After High, Zelfs, and Shopkins because she likes to be able to collect all the characters.
And Shopkins were you of the year last year and it focuses on collecting different characters so I totally don't agree that that's what little girls want.
They want variety and new characters haha
Post Merge: April 02, 2015, 07:37:58 PM
Also we could totally have the core ponies still. Moose Toys does this with the Zelfs each time they have a special wave, Masquerade, Scented, etc they release "core characters" while also bringing new characters in. That's exactly what hasbro should do.
Just a few examples..
The Rainbow Rocks line should have featured a new Rainbow Dash, with 4-5 NEW ponies.
The Crystal ponies should have featured Rarity with new characters, which they kindve did.
Each new set would focus on a core pony, WHILE expanding new and exciting characters.
A few ideas!
A Candy/Sweet theme line that features Pinkie Pie, and 4-5 new ponies that highlight new sweet/Candy themed ponies.
A animal theme line that features Fluttershy with 4-5 new characters.
This way they can feature their core ponies, AND bring something new and exciting AT the same time.
Heck, they don't even have to buy more plastic. They could reuse the 6 colors of plastics they already have and just make new ponies.
Like, using plastic from Rarity and hair from Rainbow Dash you could have a new earth pony.
Plastic from AppleJack and hair from Pinkie Pie for a new unicorn.
It's that simple, but they're not doing it. Hasbro DOES need to focus on their core characters but also need to go back to the good old days.
It just breaks my heart to sit the MLP toys sit on the shelf.
All the while little girls are eating up new toy lines like the Zelfs and Shopkins because they're constantly featuring new characters.
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Well to be honest the rereleasing of the same ponies is absolutely killing MLP in all shops here, the amount is getting less and less in each store with some just not getting ponies at all anymore, while CMM has been a breath of fresh air with Flower Wishes and Sweetie Drops, etc, but now there's yet again loads of pinkie pies and twilights that no one is buying, I see only a few parents buying a repeat pony "you already have pinkie pie... Oh fine well your brothers getting (random toy) so I suppose..." The poor girl was looking for a new pony is the shop and settled for a pinkie because she didn't want to miss out. I've seen many little kids get dissapointed in the MLP selection and go to other toys instead. I'm pretty concerned that MLP won't last much longer here at all... It's the Ponyocalypse.
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Well to be honest the rereleasing of the same ponies is absolutely killing MLP in all shops here, the amount is getting less and less in each store with some just not getting ponies at all anymore, while CMM has been a breath of fresh air with Flower Wishes and Sweetie Drops, etc, but now there's yet again loads of pinkie pies and twilights that no one is buying, I see only a few parents buying a repeat pony "you already have pinkie pie... Oh fine well your brothers getting (random toy) so I suppose..." The poor girl was looking for a new pony is the shop and settled for a pinkie because she didn't want to miss out. I've seen many little kids get dissapointed in the MLP selection and go to other toys instead. I'm pretty concerned that MLP won't last much longer here at all... It's the Ponyocalypse.
Hasbro really needs a new creative director!!
I have no skills in that field but best believe I applied!!
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I think a lot of the posts have nailed it. I don't hate FIM but I don't equate them with what I grew up with. I do hate the anti-G1 comments idiots put on youtube and the idea MLP interest began with G4, but I don't hate the toys themselves. They just lack...something. I like that with old MLP Hasbro experimented and in doing so, they made mistakes. Flutter ponies, for example,,..stunning but too delicate for rough play. Pink hair that faded on ponies whose streak of hair changed colour in the sun. And random inexplicable variations which gave each country's MLP a unique identity.
New MLP is too shiny in that regard. The final product looks nice but stays in safe perameters. I have one with affixable wings that I bought in Prague, but the wings are cheap and not a patch on flutter or summer/windy wings, with their colours and patterns.
It must not be forgotten how much of FIM's animation story is borrowed from G1, too. Tirac, Scorpan...even the elements of harmony are inspired by the Rainbow of Light.
In regards to kids and imagination, it is a generalisation but I think that technology doesn't help. In the 80s or 90s you had a static toy and you created a story. Now toys are digital, interactive, and do a lot of creating for the kids. Seeing small kids playing on mobile phone games is another part of it since that is not creative play.
The trend atm is to rinse repeat old stuff anyway...New Jem movie (don't get me started on that) and comic, dolls, new Ghostbuster film planned, constant remaking of TMNT, Care Bears, Transformers. And, not here at the Arena but in the wider web there are a lot of people who follow MLP simply because memes tell them it is cool and therefore they follow the pack but never spend any money on the product itself.
The other day I found stationery here in the UK featuring G1 MLP. It has been 20 years since G1 ended, but seeing that felt really good...after all this time I remember the names and personalities of the ponies featured....but I admit I cannot remember the names of most G4 outside the core 6 and buy them entirely based on whether I am away from home and whether I like their colours.
Monster High is one of the few toys out now where imagination still seems to be being applies, which is no doubt why they are so popular. If I was a mum with kids now I would probably look at them first for my child.
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Hasbro really needs a new creative director!
I have no skills in that field but best believe I applied!!
I've thought of applying as well. I also dabble in writing, so I could contribute to both the toy and media side of things.
I would like to bring back the setup of the ponies in a small enclave in a much larger world. More to explore, and the ponies are more of a community with everyone having a personality rather than a clique of friends and ballast.
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I wish they would come out with some different poses for the G4 ponies. These ones are starting to get really boring!
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I wish they would come out with some different poses for the G4 ponies. These ones are starting to get really boring!
Agreed.
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I wish they would come out with some different poses for the G4 ponies. These ones are starting to get really boring!
Agreed.
I also agree with this! That's probably one thing that does really disappoint me.
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I wish they would come out with some different poses for the G4 ponies. These ones are starting to get really boring!
Yes! If nothing else at least make the raised hoof mold the standard release. The generic standing pose is so blah.
Even better, I would like to see Hasbro release an articulated pony. Closer to the fashion style size, with 9-13 points of articulation (2-3 per leg, 1 for neck) and price it like a Monster High/Ever After High doll.
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If kids weren't into collecting, Pokémon would never have taken of like it did.
I as a kid loved new ponies, it didnt matter if they were in the show or not (it did make it sweeter if they were though), I wanted every new pony I could get my hands on.
Humans are natural born collectors so don't look down on kids when the only thing separating them from us adults is money.
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I wish they would come out with some different poses for the G4 ponies. These ones are starting to get really boring!
Agreed.
I also agree with this! That's probably one thing that does really disappoint me.
ugh, yesssss. G4's been going for.. what, five years now?.. and the only poses we really have are the usual standing pose and the "one hoof raised" pose.
I understand why they re-release the Main 6 so often, but I wouldn't mind it nearly so much if they at least had different poses instead of just lame gimmicks like tinsel-hair and extra symbols.
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I do wish they would have tons of different characters- like G1- but I don't think we will ever see that again.
Here's why. Your average kid is not a "collector" of ponies. She or he doesn't want every G4 pony every made. They want the ones that they know from the cartoon (which is not so secretly- a commercial).
I can tell you that my nieces were totally obsessed with ponies after watching the cartoon- and who did they want to play with (selected from my hoard) - Twilight, Celestia, Nitghmare Moon and Cadence. They were also more or less interested in having the other mane characters that they recognized from the show- but to a lesser degree. They absolutely did NOT want any of my background character ponies :cry:
I don't think they are so different than any other little girls- who are the primary marketing target for ponies- and probably the people who most ponies are bought for.
So basically Hasbro probably does make some new characters for those kids that are new to MLP - and a small percentage of new characters for the "collectors" of ponies (or for the few kids that never tire of them).
I actually don't agree with you at all!
Little girls DO want to collect more ponies, my Neice has become disinterested in MLP and moved onto other collectibles such as Monster High, Ever After High, Zelfs, and Shopkins because she likes to be able to collect all the characters.
And Shopkins were you of the year last year and it focuses on collecting different characters so I totally don't agree that that's what little girls want.
They want variety and new characters haha
Post Merge: April 02, 2015, 07:37:58 PM
Well maybe it has to do with the age of the kid? The desire to "collect" things is a actually something that 6-9 year olds develop (it's a developmental stage signal) - and given the relative simplicity of the toy- it may be that Hasbro believes it's primary target audience to be the 3-5 year olds. Just a theory.
Also, I can honestly say that my nieces have enough toys between ponies, monster high, and especially various Disney dolls/characters- do I really want them to have hundreds of ponies? Probably not. They can just come visit mine :)
It's not to say that I don't want Hasbro to come up with new poses and new characters for ME- but I guess that is what the 15% of new characters is probably for...
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We can't ignore, either, that even if people collect it, G4 is not a collectable atm. It is a current release toy. But, when G1 was out and a lot of us were kids, it was not a collectable either, it too was a toy.
Lots if us collected them, though, and that childhood collecting grew into adult obsession. The big question is, what will the MLP kids of today grow into? They are the collectors of the future...is G4 strong enough now to be a toy THEY later turn into THEIR collectable based on THEIR nostalgia, or is it only ever going to be something collected by people like us? Not to underestimate that as a force but to me a toy only realky evolves into a collectable if the kids that grew up with it make it one. Otherwise it is just a toy some adults collect.
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I think Hasbro are really missing a trick, one if the reasons the G1 ponies stayed popular for so long is because they kept it fresh. The animated movies and series had such a wide range of characters that supported the releases of playsets and ponies rather than limiting the toy appeal to just 6 characters.
If the series was developed mainly on the basis of launching and supporting the toy line then the format is very short sighted. I think they need to work on developing more characters further within the show and then link these to the increase in different characters within the toy line.
Just seems like good business sense all round and beneficial to both hasbro and the consumer alike.
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what annoys me the most aobut hasbro is they wotn say this is a inernational release. or this is a us onyl relase so we have to guess ><
i get the feeling Rainbow poer Aj and Dasiy dreams will never come to the us..
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I actually do think that Hasbro underestimates/undervalues the adult collector market-
I mean companies like Funko have totally cashed in on POP culture "toys" for adults- including ponies! And it is a very tiny company with a LOT of different interests. Imagine if Hasbro were even 1/50th as interested in their grown-up collectors (and I don't mean just the bones tossed at the Bronies- which is insulting enough considering that plenty of us have been collecting looooong before that happened) - it really would be nice if Hasbro would sink a few bucks into some market research. HOW many of its toys are being bought by adults? HOW should it revamp it's strategies accordingly?
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HOW many of its toys are being bought by adults?
Probably not very many, given everything I've heard about fair exclusives.
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what annoys me the most aobut hasbro is they wotn say this is a inernational release. or this is a us onyl relase so we have to guess ><
i get the feeling Rainbow poer Aj and Dasiy dreams will never come to the us..
I kinda don't get the point in international releases, or US only releases, etc. What's the point?
I dunno, maybe I'm missing something...
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We can't ignore, either, that even if people collect it, G4 is not a collectable atm. It is a current release toy. But, when G1 was out and a lot of us were kids, it was not a collectable either, it too was a toy.
Lots if us collected them, though, and that childhood collecting grew into adult obsession. The big question is, what will the MLP kids of today grow into? They are the collectors of the future...is G4 strong enough now to be a toy THEY later turn into THEIR collectable based on THEIR nostalgia, or is it only ever going to be something collected by people like us? Not to underestimate that as a force but to me a toy only realky evolves into a collectable if the kids that grew up with it make it one. Otherwise it is just a toy some adults collect.
Post Merge: April 03, 2015, 09:25:24 PM
I think Hasbro are really missing a trick, one if the reasons the G1 ponies stayed popular for so long is because they kept it fresh. The animated movies and series had such a wide range of characters that supported the releases of playsets and ponies rather than limiting the toy appeal to just 6 characters.
If the series was developed mainly on the basis of launching and supporting the toy line then the format is very short sighted. I think they need to work on developing more characters further within the show and then link these to the increase in different characters within the toy line.
Just seems like good business sense all round and beneficial to both hasbro and the consumer alike.
Well said both of you
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I'd love more ponies! But that's because I collect ponies!
To my understanding, core 7 actually did well, not in our eyes, but in hasbros eyes. Not as well as G4 though. They did a lot of market research and the conclusion is that kids are not playing with toys as long as they were in the past. A child is expected to be loyal to a brand for 1-3 years. That's why brands have multiple lines (Barbie, equestria girls, ect) not saying this is true for every kid, but the mass population market, probably is. But by creating multiple lines they can capture people's money for an added 1-2 more years.
Times are so different now, I look at my nieces, whom I've purchased ponies for, but they only played with then for a year or so, grew out of them, and wanted something more mature or technologically advanced like an iPad. When I was a kid I played with ponies for manyany years, but the Internet wasn't really a household thing, and video games weren't as involved, and tv was not targeted they same way it is today for kids. And we def didn't have iPods snd iPads and selfies haha. It was a time of imagination. I collected ponies through most of my high school days, and that wasn't really all that uncommon to have toys in high school, yet today its a rare sight for that to happen. I remember most of the boys in my high school still collected Star Wars or ninja turtles, it was so common for boys (and girls) to have toys/collectables.
Having the core friends attached to the television show makes having them available on the shelves a necessity. I know it sucks for us collectors, and kids collecting, but for the general population it works. Now I agree, hasbro is missing the collectors market target a bit, but they do throw new ponies out every now and then which breathes life into the line to long time collectors and short time collectors alike!
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Part of the problem is G4 doesn't really capture the imagination when you look at what we've been saying. Limited characters, limited poses, nothing but a vague blurb of personality. I think Hasbro has caught themselves in a self-defeating loop. They make toys not geared to developing brand loyalty, it doesn't develop brand loyalty, and their research says there's no brand loyalty.
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They make toys not geared to developing brand loyalty, it doesn't develop brand loyalty, and their research says there's no brand loyalty.
What does their research say? As a whole, because toys are only a snippit of the brand.
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They make toys not geared to developing brand loyalty, it doesn't develop brand loyalty, and their research says there's no brand loyalty.
What does their research say? As a whole, because toys are only a snippit of the brand.
I'm not sure what their research says exactly. But G4 seems run specifically to not keep the attention of a customer for more than a year or two. There has to be a reason.
And toy are THE brand. With My Little Pony toys, we don't have anything else.
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merchandise? Say what you want , but that is a part of it .
I get it you dont like the way g4 is run. But why are you making stuff up?
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The show has been too successful in its own right and has potentially shifted the way Hasbro markets the pony line. Instead of just getting to sell toys, it now works for them to focus on a larger quantity of clothing, bedding, stationary... Heck, someone posted a My Little Pony bathroom set the other week. Hasbro isn't losing money--they are taking (logical) advantage of the current success of FiM and adjusting how they get it.
What do I mean? Well, as I said in my initial post, the show was likely conceived as a 'glorified commercial' to sell the toy line. But it has taken off on a much larger scale than anyone likely anticipated. So much so, that the role of the toys vs. the show have potentially switched. (Merchandise being sold by the show's success, rather than the show just making little kids randomly want toys.) FiM also has the distinction of having a much longer lifespan than the G1 cartoon, My Little Pony Tales, or the direct to DVD releases found in G3.
To Hasbro, the show is likely seen as what is making their current brand for MLP successful and the diversity of viewers--something they did not acknowledge until FiM and "Bronies" if I understand what others here have implied--has altered their core sales strategies. When we look back at G3 and the Core 7, what we can see is that it may not have actually been an accident. (Hasbro wanting to focus on a core set of ponies.) With G4, the success of FiM has allowed them to take that 'core' philosophy even further. Which is likely paying off because the show is sophisticated enough in its writing to keep -modern- children interested longer than they would generally be. (Plus adult fans, etc.) I'm with others who have said kids mentalities toward toys have changed. I was talking with my niece about toys and she pretty much went, "Aunt Kat, why do you like toys? I was done with those silly things by the time I was in grade two. They're boring. They don't -do- anything. I've got a Playstation and an iPad."
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The show has been too successful in its own right and has potentially shifted the way Hasbro markets the pony line. Instead of just getting to sell toys, it now works for them to focus on a larger quantity of clothing, bedding, stationary... Heck, someone posted a My Little Pony bathroom set the other week. Hasbro isn't losing money--they are taking (logical) advantage of the current success of FiM and adjusting how they get it.
What do I mean? Well, as I said in my initial post, the show was likely conceived as a 'glorified commercial' to sell the toy line. But it has taken off on a much larger scale than anyone likely anticipated. So much so, that the role of the toys vs. the show have potentially switched. (Merchandise being sold by the show's success, rather than the show just making little kids randomly want toys.) FiM also has the distinction of having a much longer lifespan than the G1 cartoon, My Little Pony Tales, or the direct to DVD releases found in G3.
To Hasbro, the show is likely seen as what is making their current brand for MLP successful and the diversity of viewers--something they did not acknowledge until FiM and "Bronies" if I understand what others here have implied--has altered their core sales strategies. When we look back at G3 and the Core 7, what we can see is that it may not have actually been an accident. (Hasbro wanting to focus on a core set of ponies.) With G4, the success of FiM has allowed them to take that 'core' philosophy even further. Which is likely paying off because the show is sophisticated enough in its writing to keep -modern- children interested longer than they would generally be. (Plus adult fans, etc.) I'm with others who have said kids mentalities toward toys have changed. I was talking with my niece about toys and she pretty much went, "Aunt Kat, why do you like toys? I was done with those silly things by the time I was in grade two. They're boring. They don't -do- anything. I've got a Playstation and an iPad."
I think you nailed it on the head.
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I won't touch the brony thing with a bargepole because I find that term offensive when applied my way...but lets not forget Hasbro think MLP began in 1983 when we all know it was 1982, so I don't put much stock in their research really. I think it only goes as far as profit these days since I have letters from Hasbro UK in 95 that gave me info but that info had been lost when I wrote to them about G3 some years on. Its evudent from the fact Hasbro also didn't correctly name Princess Amethyst when issuing merchandise here a few years ago, whereas on the list I have from 95, Amethyst is listed with her dragon and everything correctly.
My point is that Hasbro have not built new MLP on the foundations of G1, even if Lauren Faust drew on a lot of G1 to develop the show. They built it on their most recent understanding of MLP, which is the core characters and copyrights and research infirmation they have to hand.
Hasbro no longer hold records relating to G1, I have written to enough of them over the years and have been told that exact thing. It would be lovely if G4 could be more like G1, but the truth is it can't be. The style of sale for G4 mirrors the style of sale for G3, with a core set, others with little in the way of development as characters, many similar poses, colours, remakes if certain ponies over and over. They are just smaller, so that probably saves on production cost, even if it has not reduced retail cost.
If not for the FIM cartoon, there would not be much to separate them. But, when the cartoon ends, what then?
I also agree with ladybastila's assessment. G4 is the show, and that is as far as Hasbro want to go.
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When the show ends, or worse goes south, is what worries me. They've tied the entire MLP brand so much to FiM I fear the former will be severely damaged the latter's inevitable demise. It's a short-sighted strategy that creates tremendous risk to Hasbro's flagship girls brand for fleeting success now. They need the brand to be more than the show (and Transformers and G.I. Joe are more than their media presence) so it won't die with the show.
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I dont buy g4 anymore cos they are always the same, i wish for new ponies that look different
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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also remember, when Hasbro reps are saying "market research" and that adults are a small part of the market, what they are really saying is,
"Our biggest vendor is Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart orders these units by the trillion for their Girls Toys department. Since they place an order for about 80% of our production, we let them offer suggestions as to what types of product sells best in their stores. Also - we are selling them through our Girls Toy department; we will presume these are TOYS and are being bought FOR children" .... skewed market research from the start.
With Wal*Mart stocking a TOY department with billions of Pinkie Pies, there is no room for , "Nationally-Acclaimed Comic Chain Store With Adult Collectors" to have a say in the scant 4 cases of ponies that gets shipped to them. I would imagine Toys R Us gets about 15% of the orders and smaller companies get to split the rest.
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I haven't seen many new ponies recently, with the exception of the two princess ponies who are paired with one of the mane 6 I saw at Toys R Us. I wish when there was a new episode such as the two parter we had recently Hasbro would make new brushables based on the ponies we saw most often. They could make a Starlight one and Party Time, etc.
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Please don't use vendor to describe Wal*Mart's relationship to Hasbro. It irritates my inner accountant. Vendors are who you buy from. Customers are who you sell to. Therefore, Wal*Mart is a customer of Hasbro.
I think skewed market research and an abdication of creative decisions is at the heart of the problem. Wal*Mart has no brand loyalty. If My Little Pony ceased to exist right this second, they would put something else in their place. Therefore, they will not invest any time or money into forecasting future trends or assisting new ponies in penetrating the market. They only care about what's selling now.
It's Hasbro's job to forecast future trends as well as sell their characters to their retail and individual customers. Sadly, it seems like it's a job they don't do beyond Friendship is Magic which concentrated on a very limited cast.
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They make toys not geared to developing brand loyalty, it doesn't develop brand loyalty, and their research says there's no brand loyalty.
What does their research say? As a whole, because toys are only a snippit of the brand.
I'm not sure what their research says exactly. But G4 seems run specifically to not keep the attention of a customer for more than a year or two. There has to be a reason.
And toy are THE brand. With My Little Pony toys, we don't have anything else.
merchandise? Say what you want , but that is a part of it .
I get it you dont like the way g4 is run. But why are you making stuff up?
I think what Al-1701 is saying is that while merchandise is all well and good, the toy line while always be the heart and soul of MLP. And it's for one simply reason. "My Little Pony" was developed by and is owned by a toy company. Merchandising makes Hasbro a little extra money but in the end they are going to focus on what they do as a company which is to make toys.
In terms of new ponies, I do wish they would balance it more. Though there do seem to be some more ponies coming out. It seems to me that they could still have the mane six available at all times with out having the entire group of single be only mane six (or just one new pony). For example, if Rarity is currently available as a FS then does she really need to be a playful single also? Or if PP and RD are available in a Princess pack then do they also have to be available in singles? Or really the princess ponies are popular enough that I think they could get away with using a new character as an extra instead of one of the mane 6.
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I think what Al-1701 is saying is that while merchandise is all well and good, the toy line while always be the heart and soul of MLP. And it's for one simply reason. "My Little Pony" was developed by and is owned by a toy company. Merchandising makes Hasbro a little extra money but in the end they are going to focus on what they do as a company which is to make toys.
You are under estimating what licensing is about...
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You are under estimating what licensing is about...
I think you're grossly overestimating it.
First, the licensing fee on merchandise is miniscule compared to the gross profit. Better to make it yourself if you can.
Second, you have to keep your property you're licensing out relevant so third parties will want to buy rights to use it.
Merchandise is great, but My Little Pony is a toy brand first and must remain a toy brand first. Friendship is Magic will end, and My Little Pony needs a way to separate itself from it so it's not dragged down with it.
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I actually don't think that we need to worry too much about the end of FiM being the end of MLP. There might be a lull for a year or two but Hasbro will simply do a redesign as they have done before and the cycle will start over.
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I know Hathorcat knows a lot about marketing. Maybe she will pop in and give us her insight on how much Hasbro makes on licensing in relation to their own product.
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You are under estimating what licensing is about...
I think you're grossly overestimating it.
First, the licensing fee on merchandise is miniscule compared to the gross profit. Better to make it yourself if you can.
Second, you have to keep your property you're licensing out relevant so third parties will want to buy rights to use it.
I know what licensing is. I kinda have some insight to it. That's why I'm saying that the brand is more than just the toys. I'm not basing my comments on just my opinions, but some information I cannot share directly.
FiM is not the end of MLP. They will rehash out the line again after FiM, and we will call it G5. For now, they wanted something that revolved around a set core of characters-- and that's what we have. They tried it with G3, when the G3 line was on a decline. Didn't work out as well as everyone was tired of that. So they redeveloped it, and we got FiM/G4.
I get it, it isn't the typical model of a toy line that we saw in G1s and G3s. It doesn't make this model wrong. It's just different-- whether it is liked or not liked.
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Have you actually looked at an income statement of a third party licensee? Compare their license expense (which is how much the company providing the license makes in the transaction) with their gross margin. The gross margin is much larger.
If you can make it without going to abnormal expense (like building a new factory), make it yourself. Hasbro licenses out their brands for clothing, decorations, vanity plates, and media because they don't have the means to produce them; not because licensing is lucrative compared to in-house production.
Licensing has its place. It's a way to have products made the company cannot. However, especially when it's manufacturing company like Hasbro, it's to supplement the brand not take it over.
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I haven't seen many new ponies recently, with the exception of the two princess ponies who are paired with one of the mane 6 I saw at Toys R Us. I wish when there was a new episode such as the two parter we had recently Hasbro would make new brushables based on the ponies we saw most often. They could make a Starlight one and Party Time, etc.
I just saw Skywishes and Sweetie Drops at TRU the other day. A brushable Starlight was seen at Toy Fair and TRU is going to be getting a new Pony Mania pack featuring all new ponies and Target will eventually be getting a Mane-iac brushable.
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Licensing has its place. It's a way to have products made the company cannot. However, especially when it's manufacturing company like Hasbro, it's to supplement the brand not take it over.
See, we kind of agree after all Al-1701 :) Yay!
I never said that it was the main profit. I just said that it shouldn't be under estimated and that it DOES make money and help boost profits. Ponies are in so many places beyond the toy aisle. You are shopping for a new bathmat, boom, pony in your face. Buying a card for your little niece? OH hey! Why not get the pony card. Ponies everywhere, it's kind of like an advertisement.
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But that doesn't erase the fact they MUST be in the toy aisle or you won't get any of those things either.
Ironically, G1 has come back as a license brand. They don't make G1 toys, but they have licensed their likeness to just about everybody. Makes me wish they either put the original G1 cartoon on Discovery Family or make a new show based on them to compliment FiM to take advantage of the nostalgia. Perhaps even bring those characters into the G4 toyline for some added variety.
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I disagree with a lot of the original comments unfortunately. As a collector I am completely on board with the fact that the main 6 are incredibly frustrating; the lack of variety and new characters is the most annoying thing about the G4 toy line. I am all there on that one.
However G4 did not come into creation because G3 and the bore 7 failed. It was just a natural progression and reinvention of the line. The core 7 in G3 was simply Hasbro showing us the direction they intended to take; they were simply making moves that the toy industry and their sector demanded. Which is toy lines becoming dictated by their media combined with the fact kids interest and attention span on 1 toy line is much shorter than it used to be. They dont need to release new characters every year because the kids who bought the ponies in year 1 have moved on to something else by year 3. They need to keep the characters on the shelves that the kids (and their parents) want - which is the main characters in the cartoon that introduces them to the toy line.
The continued investment in a cartoon (now into its 5th series) shows how successful this line has become. Its no doubt outshining previous generations. And its doing it all with pretty much just the main 6 available (in all manner of different ways) on shelves. The cartoon does not make Hasbro money, the toy line does. So it takes the toy line being successful for the show to continue. If the toy line was bombing no matter how adored the cartoon, it would have been cancelled.
G1 was successful because it was new and different. However as a kid who had multiples of the same pony when I was 4 and 5, I can tell you that really didnt bother me. I was not a "collector" at that age and the fact so many people had childhood collections of 30 or less ponies perhaps shows that neither were many kids. It was not about having so many different ponies, it was just about a cool toy that you could get in some degree of variety. At the end of the day 2 Applejacks and 3 Bow Ties made no dent in my enjoyment of the line and I dont even remember it being something that I considered at all.
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There's a very wide range between "bombing" and meeting full market potential. G4 is successful, but it seems like they're leaving money on the table. I personally think the show is a little too insular with the Mane having few relationships outside of the clique besides family or professional. If the media is pushing the toys, then it should be more populated with characters that serve more of a role than ballast.
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I think unfortunately sometimes we forget we are not the market (unless for some of the aforementioned merch). Hasbro are not stupid and not the 3rd largest toy company in the world without knowing their marketplace.
I am not arguing the angles of the show, its content and the decisions it makes - could they do more with it? Perhaps. But its clearly a working formula so my opinion on it is more personal than one which commercially stacks up. However for the money continually invested in it; without a toy line that is making $$ and continuing to do so we would by now have been on repeats of season 1 and not a full out season 5 (with forthcoming movie). The show is nothing without the toys. Marketing and advertising budgets, no matter the industry you are in, are the first things to be cut normally. So to have a toy line with such continual and high marketing spend is proof that Hasbro can justify these budgets on the line.
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I actually think that Hasbro are being lazy constantly releasing the same ponies in different poses and i personally think they are losing business. I currently work for GAME and one of our main sales is through Skylanders and Disney Infinity. Now i can tell you straight that children go nuts for new characters!
Lets take Skylanders for instance. We are currently on the 4th game, 400+ figures and counting, and children and parents go completely nuts when a new set or figure is brought out. There is currently only the games and a handful of TV shows that really promote it and they concentrate on main characters. I often hear parents refusing to buy a figure that's basically been re released in a new pose. So i do think that the collecting side is still very much alive, they just need to make the toys a bit more appealing and possibly give them another function. I mean would it be so hard for Hasbro to have a free to play MLP game online and put in a webcode with each new pony so you could unlock them online? Children would get more from the product, parents more for their money and Hasbro could release many new characters without as much fear of them not selling.
I don't even bother with the G4 as i'm super annoyed by one thing about them, and that's the size of the pony. I cannot believe that Hasbro think its acceptable to charge £5-£10 for a pony that's not much bigger than some of the baby ponies from the 80's. As i collector i genuinely cannot let myself spend so much for something that looks like no effort ever went into it.
Mimic x x x
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But that doesn't erase the fact they MUST be in the toy aisle or you won't get any of those things either.
Ironically, G1 has come back as a license brand. They don't make G1 toys, but they have licensed their likeness to just about everybody. Makes me wish they either put the original G1 cartoon on Discovery Family or make a new show based on them to compliment FiM to take advantage of the nostalgia. Perhaps even bring those characters into the G4 toyline for some added variety.
There isn't much MLP merch available here, but what I've noticed about G4 and G1 merchandise here (concerning what's in regular high street shops) is that G4 merchandise is aimed at kids (character rubbers, piggy banks, child-size rucksacks, kid's clothes) and that G1 merchandise is aimed at adults (some stationary, adult-sized clothing, mugs). There are also several G1 characters in that new Playskool (?) line that is made for very young children, so maybe they're hoping an original collector will now have kids and be coaxed into buying that for their child out of nostalgia, and assume that most fans of G1 won't be buying toys for themselves but might buy a pyjamas or a MLP keyring for nostalgia's sake?
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A figurine-based game is probably the way to go. It would give more of a reason for consumers to collect and stick around longer. Each pony having her (or his) own abilities and possibly unlockables would have kids and adults coming back to see what's new. Also, unlike Skylanders, when it's time to unplug, the ponies would also provide their classic hairplay.
G4 is certainly successful, but I think it could really go a lot farther.
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I mean would it be so hard for Hasbro to have a free to play MLP game online and put in a webcode with each new pony so you could unlock them online? Children would get more from the product, parents more for their money and Hasbro could release many new characters without as much fear of them not selling.
That's exactly what Hasbro is doing with the next releases for both MLP and EQG. The ponies and dolls are coming with "zap codes" that can be scanned to unlock characters in the new MLP mobile game.
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I mean would it be so hard for Hasbro to have a free to play MLP game online and put in a webcode with each new pony so you could unlock them online? Children would get more from the product, parents more for their money and Hasbro could release many new characters without as much fear of them not selling.
That's exactly what Hasbro is doing with the next releases for both MLP and EQG. The ponies and dolls are coming with "zap codes" that can be scanned to unlock characters in the new MLP mobile game.
Yep, that's what I've heard too. Despite my grumbling, I must confess to being rather excited about the possibilities that could open depending on the character variety and the quality of the game that goes with it.
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I haven't seen many new ponies recently, with the exception of the two princess ponies who are paired with one of the mane 6 I saw at Toys R Us. I wish when there was a new episode such as the two parter we had recently Hasbro would make new brushables based on the ponies we saw most often. They could make a Starlight one and Party Time, etc.
I just saw Skywishes and Sweetie Drops at TRU the other day. A brushable Starlight was seen at Toy Fair and TRU is going to be getting a new Pony Mania pack featuring all new ponies and Target will eventually be getting a Mane-iac brushable.
Great, thanks for the info. :)
Post Merge: April 05, 2015, 05:02:49 PM
I think unfortunately sometimes we forget we are not the market (unless for some of the aforementioned merch)
I know I am guilty as an adult collector of thinking sometimes adult collectors are what Hasbro is making MLP for, collectors and it's easy to forget that their market is children. But, I remember as a kid during the G1 days I preferred playing with ponies I saw in the episodes and movies. Back then we didn't have a core 7 or mane 6 but we did see some ponies more often than others but not all the time. If I were a kid now I would realize that seeing the mane 6 all the time would get really boring and I'd want to see other ponies I see in the episodes. Maybe children now have focused their interest on Equestrial Girls now. I mean, when I go to TRU, Walmart and Target 90% of the aisle is filled with Equestria Girls and if there are any brushables left they are mane 6 and lots of the blind bags have been ripped open. It could be that I've gone to the aisles too late when they had something new but even though TRU is the more expensive place to shop I like going there because they usually have the new ponies and lots more to choose from than Walmart or Target.
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This thread is getting so interesting now with all these angles and stuff to consider,
These things -bearing in mind I don't work in retail or marketing and am hugely ignorant of the details of how those work...occurred to me when reading.
Kids not collecting G1, no intent for them to.
Against this - Hasbro's slogan drive on all cards etc in 1993/4 was 'collect them all'
Hasbro in Europe tagged ponies between 1989 and 1992 with the word 'collection'Adults were Classic Collection, babies were Baby Collection.
Hasbro marketed family sets and, at least here, broke those sets into individual ponies before they released complete sets. Sunbright, Meadowsweet, Berrytown families were never sold as sets.
1987, 1988, 1989, 1990 UK inserts were titled Collector's album, Collector's book, with tick boxes to tick off ponies you had. 1992 had a tickbox section which said 'Collect them all and step into the magical world of my little pony'
I realise all of this relates to the UK and Europe, but at least one US insert is also titled Collector's Album.
To me this indicates Hasbro's clear intent to market something kids could collect over the long term. Lets not forget they also went to the trouble of producing stories for several hundred individual ponies. Some of these are quite long! Why do that for all, rather than a core few, if your aimnwasn't to get kids to get as many different ones as possible!
As a kid I couldn't 'collect them all', but I did try to get one from each set if I could, and my sister was the same. I also used to tick them off XD.
From a UK perspective, the comic was also promotional and under license. It featured what was new but at certain times of year old favourites came out (like Fizzy every November 5th) and they often reran older stories or tookntrips down Memory Lane to re-feature older characters.
There is none of this in place for G4, but then, nor was there in 1997/8 when G2 happened. In a sense, one kind if MLP ended forever in 1994/5. Now Hasbro have a different agenda. No matter how many times they rinse-repeat the brand, it won't ever be G1 again.
I was also under the impression there were copyrighting issues on some of the older names? That's why G4 got stuck with Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie, instead if Firefly and Surprise, because Hasbro still had the name patent. Ditto Rarity rather than Sparkler and the Sparkle in Twilight's name.
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No matter how many times they rinse-repeat the brand, it won't ever be G1 again.
I believe this is true for so many reasons. Although I was in shock as a kid when G1 came to an end and I saw G2s. I knew at that point it time it was never to be the same. Although for me, G1s were always about the toys and what I made them. I didn't like the show (only saw a few VHS tapes at the rental place, and of course no comic here. Although I would of loved that).
What do you think of G3s?
I always thought of G3s to be sort of like G1s, but for a new generation. I wanted to like them, but I couldn't... Something just wasn't right to me. I think it was because I was older, and there was no magic to it for me.
Ironically I personally liked G4s because they were so different in so many ways.
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The copyright thing was a complete misread by Faust. Trademarks had been to lapse from not being used, but copyrights are practically immortal when you talk about a company. Also, the people running the brand at the time wanted to use as many of the Core 7 as possible in the new generation. Cherrilee was supposed to be part of the main cast.
I think kids would collect if they saw something worth collecting. If the ponies came with something that rewarded them for collecting as many ponies as possible and sticking with the brand. Again, a Skylanders-like game would be the way to go. I'm not sure about going the mobile game route, the new zap code game is a start.
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When G3 first came out I liked them much more than G2, but after the first few waves they lost me a bit. Plus, it was hard to get all of them here, so many US store exclusives and such like. We did have the Seasons but I think that was our only trading material so G3 became expensive and frustrating for me. I did graduate with Rainbow Dash but the remakes killed her for me as a character...
I think G4 is ok but not really MLP to me in a way that inspires my obsession. I get more and more negative about it the more I see idiot behaviour surrounding it and net memes etc though (I hasten to add, NOT Arena members! But I once had to remove explicit sexual pony graphics from a non MLP forum I used to mod, and yeah...not cool). Overall I don't miss G3 and wouldn't miss G4, but I still miss G1.
Pretty sure Hasbro got into trouble over using some names in G3 which had lapsed and someone else had registered it. I know from other people way smarter than me that trademarks for Jem names lapsed for doll products and were then renewed not long before Integrity started making the new dolls. I imagine similar with My Little Pony. While I expect Hasbro retain copyright if the drawn appearances of old MLP, they sold moulds and they lost name licences. Very little G1 merchandise out now actually names the pony, even if the image is accurate...
FIM, of course, needed names and images. And, Applejack was a name relicensed successfully for G3, so she survived...
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There's a difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright simply means you have exclusive rights to something. Trademark is your registered use of something including names and terms. You can trademark a specific use of even a generic term. However, you have to clearly define your registered use of the term and live within it.
There's nothing stopping Hasbro from registering trademarks for all their old pony names. However, it would be more involved (and therefore more expensive) than coming up with gobblygook terms and registering them wholesale. Though, they could slap secondary names on them (it would even solve some of the repeat name issues).
I really think the problem is a lack of brand loyalty in the leadership. They need people who want to see G1 ponies make a return and articulate its economic benefit running things at Hasbro HQ.
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I don't think everyone will ever be satisfied no matter what they do there will still be an issue.
Hasbro makes new characters, people complain about the pose, the cutie mark being boring, the design, the quality, the price, the cutie mark on one side etc. If they made boys people would complain about the hair.
I think they are missing out on making boys though. Hopefully this new code system changes things.
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There's a difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright simply means you have exclusive rights to something. Trademark is your registered use of something including names and terms. You can trademark a specific use of even a generic term. However, you have to clearly define your registered use of the term and live within it.
Yeah, I realised that ass I as typing, but it was almost 3am by that point, so please forgive my sleepy stupidity.
What I was getting at is that there was some big hullabaloo about the trademark of...I think it was the name Cotton Candy...that they had a legal clash with another company over during G3, and lost. Considering that Firefly and Surprise are quite generic names in some regards, I think they didn't want the hassle over reregistering them or fighting for them when they had existing G3 trademarks to use.
I find it sad that it was that way, but as a businesss, Hasbro's logic made sense.
It's also their fault for dispatching G1 so easily. I think they thought that was the end of it when they closed doors...but clearly it wasn't. The thing is, G4 has not introduced new poses very often, correct? By contrast Hasbro Int'l introduced three? brand new poses in 1994, which was pretty much the end of production, which implies to me they decided to stop MLP suddenly, rather than planning to wind it up in 94. (Netherlands etc had ponies in 95). This would make some sense since at the end of production here, Hasbro UK had surplus of the 1994 line (I got Baby Lollipop direct from them) and sold a bunch of their surplus to a store in London (from which we got almost all the 1994 line)...because NONE of the 1994 line ever reached shelves here in my area.
So its distribution was patchy and must have been cancelled midway for whatever reason. Hathorcat has more insight into the store side of things and may know more about that - but it seems to me that Hasbro did to G1 what it did to Jem, and cut the ties suddenly without any thought to the future...
At our cost...
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I sometimes joke that Tales killed G1. Notice the brand began to implode after Tales aired on the Disney channel and spent the better part of a decade in the wilderness except in Europe.
I'm not sure about the case of Cotton Candy. It might have been their trademark had already lapsed and they had not bothered to renew thinking it was still active. It would be something to look up.
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I sometimes joke that Tales killed G1. Notice the brand began to implode after Tales aired on the Disney channel and spent the better part of a decade in the wilderness except in Europe.
Looking at that from a Uk perspective, there wasn't any sign of decay in the line until that 1994 cut off. I grew up in one of the WORST distribution areas for MLP, by which I mean some sets just never even came here, but the line was still doing pretty well.
We had a lot of ponies shipped over here in 1994 which were surplus from other lines and such like (MANY from Germany ><) and G1 ponies were showing up in bags and MOC at market stalls by 1995/6, but MLP was still quite thriving here in 1992 and 1993. Obviously growing up in the UK at that time I wouldn't know anything about the US line, but it was only 1994 when cracks/discounts/etc began to show up here, and that was a full year after MLP Tales. In fact, maybe more. I have this feeling I got Bright Eyes on holiday in Wales in 1992, but I might be misremembering that.
With MLP Tales, I have this theory that it was not ever made for the North American market. I think it was made for a European marketing pitch, and just happened to be made in North America. (Either that or North America did it, considered selling the ponies, then decided they couldn't be bothered.)
The reason I really think it was designed for Europe, though, even if it was commissioned in America, is the way the ponies are labelled. Aside from the fact you have ponies/sets in that which were sold here (the Sunbrights, etc, Seven Characters, the school...), you also have the Glowing Magical Ponies. Now, in the US, they were Glow n Show Ponies, right? So why suddenly Glowing Magical Ponies? But then when you consider that the UK name for that set was Glowing Magic Ponies, suddenly it makes sense. Plus, the featured key sport is football (soccer), which is a big deal sport in Europe but not so much in North America, particularly in the 1990s (even if it has picked up some attention since the US have done so well in World Cups and such)
Add to that that the MLP Comic in the UK switched in about 1992 to ONLY featuring stories about the 7 Characters (the ponies from the tales cartoon), plus occasional cameos by Princess Sparkle, Birthday Pony, Rockin' Beats etc...and it makes sense. I think America had already pulled the pony plug before Tales even aired. I think they decided 10 years was a good place to stop.
In one way, though, you might be right. I hadn't thought of it till you said that, but the 7 Characters were the original "core 7". They were rereleased 1993, 1994 (first year with combs, second with stickers), and Melody, Starlight and Sweetheart got other releases as a Rollerskater, a Hairdo Pony and a Nurse respectively.
Hasbro WAS already going down this path in 1993. Maybe it did kill the line. Who knows?
But the introduction of brand new poses in 1993/4 makes me wonder whether Europe seriously intended to go it alone before something else hit. There was a big recession here in the 1990s. I wonder if that was part of it, and production cost just didn't make sense any more without the bigger American market to bolster it...?
Totally off the G4 subject now. Sorry people. I just find it interesting, especially since I've never understood why North America pulled the plug in 1992, except for the 10 year anniversary being a nice point, when the line was still popular. Not selling the 7 Characters in the US makes about as much sense as not selling Powder, Medley, Glory etc in the UK when there was SO much publicity for them...
I'm not sure about the case of Cotton Candy. It might have been their trademark had already lapsed and they had not bothered to renew thinking it was still active. It would be something to look up.
I think it was something along those lines. I forget all the details, but Cotton Candy was an early G3, so maybe it was around 2003/4??
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The thing is, Cotton Candy was also a G3.5 McDonald's pony and sold in the retro sets and recently had Christmas ornament released that named her. Perhaps Hasbro learned their lesson not to assume anything.
I think Tales was intended for the European and particularly United Kingdom audience. The fact there is a king and queen, Starlight wore a judge's wig in Stand by Me, and soccer was the game of the day seem more geared towards the U.K. audience. Though, Soccer was trying to penetrate the U.S. market in the 90's as a fledgling professional soccer league was in existence for a short time. We had the Detroit Neon.
Whatever the case, Tales aired the summer before those characters hit the shelves...in Europe and the brand disappeared everywhere else. They might have been Hasbro of Europe's idea. It was a simple set with all earth ponies and no gimmicks. It might even been an attempt to relaunch the brand similar to Transformers Generation 2. It would be interesting to pick the brains of people responsible for these decisions.
Getting back to G4, I liked how the Season 5 premier didn't glorify the Mane 6 and their friendship. In fact, they had to rely on others to save them. FiM has so exalted the Mane 6 it probably makes other ponies seem inferior in the eyes of the children watching.