The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Flitter on May 11, 2012, 10:08:37 AM
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I saw a chart a while back that showed how the G4 Mane 6 were based off G1 ponies.
Even though I don't collect G1 I think it might be fun to have their G1 counterparts someday
but anyway, if anyone has pictures of G4s along side their G1,2,3 and 3.5 predecessors and inspirations I'd love to see. (Any G4 characters not just restricted to the Mane 6.)
Please show me! :happy:
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Well, I'm going to do a few of these. I wish I had more of the older-gen counterparts, but I'll work with what I have.
First, here's G3 and G4 Pinkie Pie hanging out with G1 Surprise:
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Next, Firefly and Rainbow Dash:
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Finally, I don't care what anyone says about Sparkler, Glory looks a heck of a lot like Rarity to me!
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I dont have any pictures to hand to help my apologies! I have always loved the association from G1 to G4 but its only when I actually see Surprise & Pinkie and Firefly & Dash that I realise how unalike they actually are?! Now AppleJack....that one I understand lol!
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Firefly/Rainbow Dash and Surprise/Pinkie Pie were because of the personalities. If you check out Lauren Faust's original concept art of them that's who they were until Hasbro told her she couldn't use G1s except for Applejack. Surprise kept her wild curly hair and balloon symbol, she just got a colour change and lost her wings.
I've only got a couple of cross gen pictures because I don't have many G4s yet.
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Personally, I imagine Brights Bramley to be the G2 version of Applejack as well and plan to track her down when I get money just because Applejack is my extra special pony from my childhood herd!
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cheerilee!
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Firefly/Rainbow Dash and Surprise/Pinkie Pie were because of the personalities. If you check out Lauren Faust's original concept art of them that's who they were until Hasbro told her she couldn't use G1s except for Applejack. Surprise kept her wild curly hair and balloon symbol, she just got a colour change and lost her wings.
I've only got a couple of cross gen pictures because I don't have many G4s yet.
I remember reading that...I still dont quite see the meet up...but hey I am happy with ANY nod to G1! So I ll go with the flow!
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Twinkleshine and Twinkle Star!
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edit:
Have G1 & G3 Cotton Candy with G4 Sweetie Swirl too!
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I think that finding G1 counterpart to the existing G4 toys, is kind of tricky and hard at the same time. First thing is the fact that throughout the years Hasbro's lost the rights to many names for it's characters (hence, for example, Lauren Faust was unable to produce the show using the G1 characters... at least that's one of the reason). Besides, from what I've noticed, many G4 ponies have new names, which had not appeared in the first generation. But that's just my opinion...
The one thing you have to go by is the visual resemblance.
Speaking of which I can't help but notice that Rarity looks so much like Italian Sparkler:
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Firefly/Rainbow Dash and Surprise/Pinkie Pie were because of the personalities. If you check out Lauren Faust's original concept art of them that's who they were until Hasbro told her she couldn't use G1s except for Applejack. Surprise kept her wild curly hair and balloon symbol, she just got a colour change and lost her wings.
I've only got a couple of cross gen pictures because I don't have many G4s yet.
I remember reading that...I still dont quite see the meet up...but hey I am happy with ANY nod to G1! So I ll go with the flow!
Here are Lauren Faust's original concepts for the main characters. ^_^
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Here are Lauren Faust's original concepts for the main characters. ^_^
I made these a while ago...
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
I just don't get it, either. If Hasbro doesn't have the rights, then who does? and why would they only keep Applejack of all of the ponies? I mean, not even Firefly?
I do have to say though, that before I saw the original concept drawings a while ago, I thought Fluttershy was inspired by Dancing Butterflies.
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I love this topic! I too am confused about where the rights to the other G1 TV show characters went; why was it only Spike and Applejack that they could keep the rights too? Hm. Well, at least Twilight's mom in the show looks almost identical to G1 Twilight:
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Here are Lauren Faust's original concepts for the main characters. ^_^
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Awesome pic!
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
I just don't get it, either. If Hasbro doesn't have the rights, then who does? and why would they only keep Applejack of all of the ponies? I mean, not even Firefly?
I do have to say though, that before I saw the original concept drawings a while ago, I thought Fluttershy was inspired by Dancing Butterflies.
I dont want to sound cynical [again lol!] but in my personal opinion the whole "we lost the rights" reads as a little teeny bit of a fairy story to apologise nicely to collectors and fans about the lack [other than AJ] of a direct G1 presence...if you really start thinking about it for example HB are permitting the licensing of some of their original G1s [including Firefly remember] on to t-shirts and other materials right now. Not to mention that it was only 5 years ago that HB re-released 12 of these original G1s all with the same name as in the 80s - its a little coincidental that 5 of those they happened to loose were the 5 that LF wanted to use. It was the reason LF I believe claims to have been given when she tried to pitch the G1 focused concept which Tropical Sunset kindly posted. I know it does happen and names are lost - Transformers being a great example - but HB didnt loose the right to every single G1 MLP name other than AppleJack - they could have re-registered a lot of them as many of them certainly havent been picked up by other toy brands. Although perhaps they preferred the uniqueness of names like "Fluttershy" and "Twilight Sparkle" over more regular names like "Sparkler" and "Twilight"
Personally I think it comes down to the fact that with G3 and 3.5 HB invested a lot in the characters of ponies like Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash...and they wanted to keep these characters in the franchise. The problem is once you change a couple of the characters you have to charge others in order to maintain the colour/type/concept balance - so you make Surprise pink and remove her wings which means you need to drop the other pink pony [suddenly Firefly becomes blue] and give someone else the wings you took off Surprise [along comes that yellow pony with wings and here is Fluttershy]...HB dont want to loose all the little girls who watched G3 and 3.5 some of them, their little sisters and their mums are still in their core target market.
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
I just don't get it, either. If Hasbro doesn't have the rights, then who does? and why would they only keep Applejack of all of the ponies? I mean, not even Firefly?
I do remember there was some issue with trademarking Firefly because of Joss Whedon, though that was mainly to do with the show and not the toys.
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I love this topic! I too am confused about where the rights to the other G1 TV show characters went; why was it only Spike and Applejack that they could keep the rights too? Hm. Well, at least Twilight's mom in the show looks almost identical to G1 Twilight:
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Off topic but I love the "font" difference for 80s to modern! Cute addition...
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Just found out that Princess Cadence might have been...
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...Lily Lightly ! Their colours are pretty much identical, don't you think?
Credits for the pic to whoever took it.
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I found this a few days ago and I thought it might be of some interest:
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
I just don't get it, either. If Hasbro doesn't have the rights, then who does? and why would they only keep Applejack of all of the ponies? I mean, not even Firefly?
I do have to say though, that before I saw the original concept drawings a while ago, I thought Fluttershy was inspired by Dancing Butterflies.
I dont want to sound cynical [again lol!] but in my personal opinion the whole "we lost the rights" reads as a little teeny bit of a fairy story to apologise nicely to collectors and fans about the lack [other than AJ] of a direct G1 presence...if you really start thinking about it for example HB are permitting the licensing of some of their original G1s [including Firefly remember] on to t-shirts and other materials right now. Not to mention that it was only 5 years ago that HB re-released 12 of these original G1s all with the same name as in the 80s - its a little coincidental that 5 of those they happened to loose were the 5 that LF wanted to use. It was the reason LF I believe claims to have been given when she tried to pitch the G1 focused concept which Tropical Sunset kindly posted. I know it does happen and names are lost - Transformers being a great example - but HB didnt loose the right to every single G1 MLP name other than AppleJack - they could have re-registered a lot of them as many of them certainly havent been picked up by other toy brands. Although perhaps they preferred the uniqueness of names like "Fluttershy" and "Twilight Sparkle" over more regular names like "Sparkler" and "Twilight"
Personally I think it comes down to the fact that with G3 and 3.5 HB invested a lot in the characters of ponies like Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash...and they wanted to keep these characters in the franchise. The problem is once you change a couple of the characters you have to charge others in order to maintain the colour/type/concept balance - so you make Surprise pink and remove her wings which means you need to drop the other pink pony [suddenly Firefly becomes blue] and give someone else the wings you took off Surprise [along comes that yellow pony with wings and here is Fluttershy]...HB dont want to loose all the little girls who watched G3 and 3.5 some of them, their little sisters and their mums are still in their core target market.
Yeah, I think the well-spread rumor of Hasbro losing copyright is a misunderstanding. It made more sense for them at the time to maintain their current trademarks over G3 characters who were well-known by their preferred age bracket anyway. They obviously still have the rights to use their older characters since we see them in other merchandise :) Plus you can have overlapping names as long as the two things don't get confused in people's heads (so Firefly the show and Firefly the pony are different enough to not conflict).
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Yeah, I think the well-spread rumor of Hasbro losing copyright is a misunderstanding. It made more sense for them at the time to maintain their current trademarks over G3 characters who were well-known by their preferred age bracket anyway. They obviously still have the rights to use their older characters since we see them in other merchandise :) Plus you can have overlapping names as long as the two things don't get confused in people's heads (so Firefly the show and Firefly the pony are different enough to not conflict).
Like how you get Applejack the pony and Applejack the drink!! Same name..."hopefully" no confusing cross over...*visions of drunken ponies*
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Like how you get Applejack the pony and Applejack the drink!! Same name..."hopefully" no confusing cross over...*visions of drunken ponies*
I would be okay with this crossover ;)
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I agree with hathorcat . . . I think it was just an excuse.
I mean, let's look at the series of events:
- A few years ago Hasbro releases toys of Original Six ponies and first set of Rainbow ponies. (Most of the ponies Faust wanted to use were released within a year of the Rainbow ponies.)
- Hasbro releases Dolly Mix toys which include almost all the G1 characters Faust wants to use.
- Applejack is greenlighted for FIM.
- Hasbro claims it can't use other ponies for FIM, including Firefly.
- Hasbro releases a G.I. Joe named Firefly, who also appears in the G.I. Joe show.
- Hasbro then releases a butt-ton of shirts with MLP Firefly on them.
As Big Mac would say, "And ONE claim that they can't use Firefly combined with lots o' examples of them usin' Firefly just don't add up."
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good point hathrocat and ladymoondancer!!!
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Surprise would have been totally cool! D: I wonder WHY she could not keep them. I don't get it.
I just don't get it, either. If Hasbro doesn't have the rights, then who does? and why would they only keep Applejack of all of the ponies? I mean, not even Firefly?
Answering your question: Hasbro is nowadays really, REALLY cautious when it comes to the names of the figures they have in their toylines - like for instance trademarking the name a few months before the figure is even released.
Their reason is that when the copyright on certain names expires over time, chances are that another toy company might use the name for their own product: that was the case, for instance with Bumblebee of "Transformers" toy line. In the 90s and early 2000s, Hasbro was unable to produce any figure of the character, because the name was then used by another toy company for a different product.
So now, Hasbro is trademarking many of the names they currently own, just to make sure stuff like this won't happen again.
But there's also another problem that Hasbro is facing. Some of the names that Hasbro has used are really tricky ones to trademark, because in real life they are common words, that just cannot by copyrighted because they are words people use in everyday speach.
Another "Transformers"-related example: the names of certain characters, such as Tracks or Hound, cannot be come trademarks on their own, because they're common names. Now Hasbro has managed to walk around this problem, by applying certain words which become part of the character's name, so to speak. Hence we now see figures which are labeled as "Autobot Tracks" or "Autobot Hound".
Similar thing goes with ponies: names such as Surprise or Twilight, cannot become trademarks on their own because they're common, and they just can't be copyrighted (and in Twilight's case, Hasbro could be even accused of copyright infringement to some extent :P).
I know it sounds weird, but it's just the way it is... :P
Also, like some of the people here said, Hasbro suggested to Faust to utilize the characters from G3 and G3.5 in her show, because it would appeal to the intended age group more than the characters from G1. It's sad but true.
Though I wish there'd be more G1-related stuff in the "Friendship is Magic" show, just as a little wink towards the older fans: in "Transformers" they do that almost all the time, so why can't they do the same with "My Little Pony"?
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Fluttershy looks like G2 Sky Skimmer... :P
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(photo from http://mylittlewiki.org/wiki/Sky_Skimmer)
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I love this topic! I too am confused about where the rights to the other G1 TV show characters went; why was it only Spike and Applejack that they could keep the rights too? Hm. Well, at least Twilight's mom in the show looks almost identical to G1 Twilight:
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I still think Twilight's full name is Twilight Sparkle Jr., her mom being Sr. In their matriarchal society, it just fits.
Oops, sorry this isn't the Headcannon thread.
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Actually, according to the Blind Bags her mom's name is Twilight Velvet.
Hathorcat, loss of trademark retention is the reason they couldn't use the old names (as Moonracer pointed it out it's a problem that plagues the Transformers brand too). At the time production started the Firefly trademark in regards to toys was in Joss Whedon's hands (thanks for nothing, Joss), just straight-up Twilight was unavailable partly due to commonality and partly due to that hack Stephanie Meyer, Surprise is again too generic to hang onto anymore, Posey was presumably taken by another line of girls' toys, Sparkler was either too generic or had been used by another toy (don't know details), but Applejack they still had due to having reused her name recently (plus nobody else wanting to take it, presumably to avoid being confused with a breakfast cereal). Now, why the others were retooled the particular way they were would be to hang on to what Hasbro does own or simply to give unique flavour (in the case of Twi's tweaks), but it's because of trademark retention that they had to change. Enough can shift during a gap like there was between the release of those reissues and the start of production to cause problems. And of course once production has started and stuff's hit the shelves and airwaves, even if the trademark becomes available again it's too late for this round. I would also like to point out that there's a difference between name and likeness.
On the actual topic of the thread:
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These are wonderful guys! Thanks for the pics. Keep 'em coming!
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You know, I'm going to share my theory about the personalities of the G4 ponies.
They're all basically G3.5 Core 7 ponies.
Hear me out:
Each gen has a mother-like figure. She's always ready to lend an ear to her friends, and help them any way she can. She's surprisingly practical, and definitely qualifies as the "Team Mom."
Pinkie Pie in G3.5. Applejack in G4.
Each gen has the rough-and-tumble tomboy. She doesn't mind getting dirty as long as she can stretch her legs (or wings). She's playful and a little bit brutally honest, so sometimes she rubs her friends the wrong way. But at the end of the day, she's so much fun that she's very easily forgiven.
Scootaloo in G3.5. Rainbow Dash in G4.
Each gen has the silly, unpredictable one. She breaks the fourth wall and is known for her nonsensical comments. She loves baked goods, and can do things that seem impossible. Despite her somewhat unsettling actions, she's the heart of the group, and loves to make her friends smile!
Sweetie Belle in G3.5 Pinkie Pie in G4.
Each gen has the bookish one. She can solve any problem with enough research, and knows more than you'd expect. She loves to read more than anything else, and you can always count on her to have a book or a story for every situation.
Cheerilee in G3.5. Twilight Sparkle in G4.
Each gen has the shy one. She has low self-esteem, but it incredible at what she does. She's always worried that her friends will laugh at her, and she can be very quiet and unsure because of it. But when the time comes for her to shine, she really does.
Starsong in G3.5. Fluttershy in G4.
Here's where it gets difficult:
G3.5 has 7 major characters, G4 only has 6. As a result, G3.5 has two character types that G4 doesn't really have in their purest form: The Fashionista and The Artist.
Rainbow Dash is the Fashionista. She's rather vain and self-centered, and loves to shop and always look her best. She adores clothes, hats, shoes, you name it! She loves to look and be looked at! However, when her friends need her, she is there.
Toola Roola is the Artist. She's passionate about what she does, and throws all of herself into her art. Whether it's painting or crafting, she can create anything and do it beautifully. As a result, she doesn't have much time to worry about appearances.
We don't have these two types in G4: We have a combination of the two, as Rarity plays both roles.
Because her art is fashion, Rarity is both Fashionista and Artist. Like Rainbow Dash, she loves to look her best. She can be very vain and self-centered, and she is very clothing oriented. However, she doesn't really shop. She designs. Like Toola Roola, she is a passionate artist who will do anything to create the vision that she has. She puts her whole self into her creations, and the results are fabulous.
This is my theory: the team dynamic for G4 existed in G3.5 almost exactly. The names have been changed, the personalities have been complicated a bit. But the gang's all here. That's where I think the personalities from G4 really come from (especially considering that there tend to be more differences between G4 ponies and their G1 "counterparts").
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Actually, according to the Blind Bags her mom's name is Twilight Velvet.
Hathorcat, loss of trademark retention is the reason they couldn't use the old names (as Moonracer pointed it out it's a problem that plagues the Transformers brand too). At the time production started the Firefly trademark in regards to toys was in Joss Whedon's hands (thanks for nothing, Joss), just straight-up Twilight was unavailable partly due to commonality and partly due to that hack Stephanie Meyer, Surprise is again too generic to hang onto anymore, Posey was presumably taken by another line of girls' toys, Sparkler was either too generic or had been used by another toy (don't know details), but Applejack they still had due to having reused her name recently (plus nobody else wanting to take it, presumably to avoid being confused with a breakfast cereal). Now, why the others were retooled the particular way they were would be to hang on to what Hasbro does own or simply to give unique flavour (in the case of Twi's tweaks), but it's because of trademark retention that they had to change. Enough can shift during a gap like there was between the release of those reissues and the start of production to cause problems. And of course once production has started and stuff's hit the shelves and airwaves, even if the trademark becomes available again it's too late for this round. I would also like to point out that there's a difference between name and likeness.
On the actual topic of the thread:
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Thats an interesting angle...I love the pony community - so many different opinions. If it was just a name thing...why could they not have simply gone the Transformers path and renamed the ponies....rather than just Posey..."Poseyshy"....rather than just "Firefly"..."Firefly Dash"...also a trademark search for a lot of the names the line is now using shows that HB have not actually registered them all and in fact that some, including AppleJack, have not been re-registered. Weird huh!?
I guess we ll all just have to continue to agree to disagree on this one!
I love that Twinkleshine comparison...never thought of those 2!
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Ooh! What about Baby Rainribbon and Rainbow Flash? They even brought her horn back for G4 :)
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wow saply! I hadnt even spotted that comparison! They are crazy similar...and here we are thinking fewer G1 nods...thats a pretty clear one!
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This might be a stretch, but don't you think Shining Armor resembles Majesty? Specifically, Unicorno? They're both blue-eyed white unicorns with streaked blue hair and star-related cutie marks, plus they're royalty (technically) and male (somehow).
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Hmmm....not quite as apparent but still an interesting link up - the colours are certainly spot on!
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Fancy Pants and Shining Armor both remind me of Majesty. Blue and white, regal colors apparently!
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Ooh! What about Baby Rainribbon and Rainbow Flash? They even brought her horn back for G4 :)
nice one!! love it! :iconclap:
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Heh, since she's another pink rainbow unicorn, I tend to imagine that Rainbow Flash was the mother of the original Rarity.
Margos, I liked your Core 7 comparisons, especially Cheerilee as a prototype Twilight Sparkle and Sweetie-Belle as a young Pinkie Pie. I had been thinking of Toola-Roola as the Fluttershy, though, since she seemed to be the quiet one with a lot of repressed fears. And G3.5 Toola-Roola appears to have more colors in common with the previous Fluttershy than she does with the previous Toola-Roola, anyway. :P
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I had been thinking of Toola-Roola as the Fluttershy, though, since she seemed to be the quiet one with a lot of repressed fears. And G3.5 Toola-Roola appears to have more colors in common with the previous Fluttershy than she does with the previous Toola-Roola, anyway. :P
That's a really good point. I dunno, I just always thought of Starsong as the Fluttershy because of the Starsong's Party short. Also, since Rarity is an artist like Toola, that made more sense to me. But yeah, the similarities are definitely there.