What do people find "girly" about My Little Pony? (please read first)

[Sunset]

I notice that I neglected to comment on your specific question as to why G3 might be seen as more "girly" than other generations.

Again, I think that there are multiple reasons.  I have always thought personally even from  the beginning of G3 that the G3 cartoons were targeting a younger audience than G1 did.  The stories are short.  They lack any kind of element that might be deemed too "scary." The dialogue is simple and the voices are portrayed as very young.  Add to that that the animation was not the highest quality and what you end up with is something not deemed very "sophisticated."  In my opinion, none of this would make something "girly."  But when you add to that all of the other stuff that *is* stereotypically "girly."  And the fact that the average male brony is college age who is presumably "sophisticated."  Well, I suspect that the stereotypical male likes to think of himself as more intelligent than the average female.  Therefore, he might be tempted to think of G3 as more "girly" than G4 because it is "less sophisticated."  As opposed to how I think of it, as simply aimed at an younger audience.

[shabbychicdee]

yeah i was a tom boy all my childhood life, but loved mlp the moment i first saw them, i didn't like dolly's, loved TF's, played with cars, never noticed anything of all the femininity of the G1's till i got older, minty was my fav and seashell which both have green on them.
to add to my comment above

Post Merge: July 23, 2013, 08:39:09 PM

yeah i thought G3's to be more girly whirly then other gens too.

[Whippycorn]

What Sunset said.

If something is seen as silly or uncool, it's automatically "girly" or "gay". To me it says a lot about how women (and people who are 'like' women) are thought about still in society. Sadly, it's not just men either who buy into this negative labeling.

[cleverLC]

TBH, I've had that same reaction before.  I played with my brother's toys way more often than my own (MLP and Treasure Trolls were the only "girly" toys I really cared much about), so I didn't really know or care so much about gender marketing.

Then, as an adult, I saw a BK promotion.  With their kids' meals, girls got dolls, and boys got robots.  I remember turning to my friends and going, "WTF?  I thought robots were unisex, not just for boys!"

I'm of the opinion that marketing toward girls in general has become even more narrow and stereotypical over time.

Oh, definitely.  The amount of time I spend in toy stores makes this painfully obvious.  Dolls and ponies are in bright-pink aisles, and MH is the only brand that really breaks up the mostly-pink color scheme going on.  Lego displays don't focus as much on good old-fashioned construction or even unisex playsets (unless you go to the Lego Store itself)--instead, you have to choose between combat-oriented playsets "for boys" or the lesser-quality Lego Friends.  Educational toys for anyone over the preschool/primary age group are assumed to be "for boys."  Most toys in the "pink" section focus almost entirely on fashion and hair-styling, with a secondary emphasis on cleaning house and baby care.  It's so strange to me whenever I see anything else in the "pink" section at all lately, and I know it wasn't this way when I was a child myself.

[Dragonflitter]

Great discussion in here! There's so many things I wanted to say that have already been said lol. I'll try not to repeat everything over again.

Yes, I see a lot of current MLP fans saying G3 are too "girly" when I believe it would be more correct to say the G3 are "too young" for them to be interested in the line. The G3's were actually aimed at a younger group of girls than the G1's and the G4's. Just check the MLP commercials of girls playing with the toys and you will see what age Hasbro was advertising to.

Pastel colors, inclusion of songs, conflict resolution, brushable hair, and the inclusion of almost entirely female cast are all clear indicators of programming aimed at young females (or "girly toys" to use the term many people are using in the thread)

[Malicieuse]

What Sunset said.

If something is seen as silly or uncool, it's automatically "girly" or "gay". To me it says a lot about how women (and people who are 'like' women) are thought about still in society. Sadly, it's not just men either who buy into this negative labeling.

This.
"Girly" pretty much means the same as "lame" and is hardly ever used as a positive thing. Kinda how people now want to claim that Fim is gender neutral. As if it not possible for girly things to be good.

[hathorcat]

I had about 4 seriously lengthy eye watering wall-o-text paragraphs typed up to post but then changed my mind

I decided all I really wanted to say was this...What's wrong with something being girly? I think I missed the memo at the start of G4 which seems to have become popular and which pointed out it was lame or not cool for something to be either overtly feminine or to have an overriding girlish sentiment/core to it.

But for every reason typed here [and which Sunset put so eloquently] MLP = girly...and for me there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only difference in the generations is a different age demographic and therefore the girlyness is presented in different ways.

These toys are not aimed at boys, they are not designed to be gender neutral but neither are they aimed at adults. These factors do not and should not stop us [or any little girl or any little boy] from enjoying them. Its just that I think if we appreciate them for what they are, then we need to appreciate their girlyness right alongside.

*skips out of thread in a cloud of pink glitter*

[achab1984]

I think its cause they are ponies and they are pink and purple colors. But then its so different then action figures and car being boy toys. I am a girl and played with cars and ponies at the same time. 

I think that its cool when I see a little boy that is crazy about horses. When I grew up all the boys in my class made fun of me cause I liked ponies and horses. But you know what!!! I have a wonderful hobby as a adult and they do not have one. I have things to show for my hard earned and smart spent money.

[U2QueenBee]

I think some of it is down to the toys themselves (G1 certainly, and all generations overall) being, like dolls, a 'grooming toy'.  While ponies are certainly more gender-neutral than human dolls, the 'default' for the ponies was that they were girls (boys being an entirely separate addition and different model), and the focus of the merchandise and play was on styling their hair and dressing them up. (I am speaking of G1 here as that is what I grew up with.)  Grooming is, obviously, a huge issue and industry for women given the expectations on appearance.  Now, there is certainly attention given to men's appearances but I think in general it is fair to say that more is given to women.  As a society, we seem to expect women to spend a lot of time on their appearance - hairdos, makeup, fashion, manicures, etc., while men are 'supposed' to be able to get showered, dressed and ready to go in much less time.  Toys for boys in general are focused more on 'doing' than 'looking', if you see what I mean.

Some of this has changed in the newer lines (G4 particularly) probably because of the 'new' demographic and I think because of the trend towards toys and collectibles being marketed towards young adults with disposable income, such as the Funko line.

In terms of the cartoons I have only ever watched FiM, but I would say it is a fairly 'girly' show in that all of the main cast are female, with only a few male ponies getting much airtime, and the themes being around friendship, sharing, family, communication and understanding which are all associated as 'feminine', however silly that is.  That said there are some more 'masculine' elements as well in terms of the more action-oriented episode, Rainbow Dash and Applejack being very hands-on and physically strong ponies, and so on.

Sorry, this is really rambling but it is so hot here that I'm pretty sure a lot of my brain has boiled into mush!

[CrazyCatPony]

Ok slumber partys definitely gender neutral- boys were just more known for backyard “camping” so the boys I grew up with always had “camp outs” lol-same thing.
Now for ponies, it all just comes down to what is common thought on stuff. Ie- pink is for girls and blue is for boys. Boys want swards and cars, girls want dolls and a “real” pony. Now this common thought is stupid but there. Back in the early 1900’s blue was a girls color, and pink was a boys color (it was a muted red)… somewhere in the last 100 years that flipped. Now girly or not is just opinion, my hubby thinks MLP FIM is funny and enjoys watching it with my girls sometimes this does not make him girly lol. Just like I love transformers but this isn’t just a “boy’y” thing for me (we really need a work for boy stuff that matches girly lol) I know my older daughter has a big problem with BOY stuff, and wont be any part of it. Why? I have no clue, probably what she learned from friends or some other part of her family cuz it wasn’t me lol. My 7 year old- “Transformers are BOYS toys.”- said with a know it all, snarky smirk. Me “Okey dokey.”

I guess to sum up- if you don’t see a problem or a difference it really doesn’t matter.

[Sunset]

I apparently have been thinking too much on this subject.

So I was just contemplating the differences in terminology  and gender.  FiM is all about friendship.  It is even in the title.  I just realized that boys programing actually has a lot about friendship but it is never used in those terms.  Boy programming always seems to use terms like "team" and "comraderie."

Do you think that this is because boys are seen as needing a "common goal" around which to build friendships, where as girls often see the friendship as the "goal"?

Thoughts?

[Stormrave]

I've had Bronies, who just got into ponies thanks to FiM, express a preference for blindbag toys over brushables because they "don't know what to do with the hair."  Unsurprisingly as most of them didn't have toys with brushable hair when they were children.  Elfpony and I have been considering a con panel or some such on Displaying Toys with Brushable Hair....basically, the complete idiot's guide to restoring and styling toys with hair.

I do know boys who had MLP's and/or She Ras in the 80s, but they often let the hair turn into rats' nests (to be fair, so did I, so most of my childhood ponies have lovely hair once i conditioned and brushed it). 

I agree that's a big factor, toys with combable/style-able hair are considered feminine.

[thekozmicpig]

I've had Bronies, who just got into ponies thanks to FiM, express a preference for blindbag toys over brushables because they "don't know what to do with the hair."

I used to be like this. Than I got one with brushable hair and was all "moar brushables!". There's something so enjoyable about just brushing hair and trying to style it. I suck at it, but I'm having fun and that's all that matters.

I decided all I really wanted to say was this...What's wrong with something being girly? I think I missed the memo at the start of G4 which seems to have become popular and which pointed out it was lame or not cool for something to be either overtly feminine or to have an overriding girlish sentiment/core to it.

But for every reason typed here [and which Sunset put so eloquently] MLP = girly...and for me there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Can I agree with all this? 27 year old hetero male here, and I much, much prefer my TV shows to be girly. However, I want a bit more action involved, because there's something so perfect about girls in "Yay frills and lace and other girly things" punching a monster in the face as opposed to serious time, all the time. I think I just like the cuteness helping me escape from how terrifying the world is.

Kind of makes me wonder what the G1 Transformers would have sung about, if the writers had followed the "one song per segment" rule like they did with G1 MLP. 

"That Megatron, he's just so mean!
But his demise has been foreseen,
And I instead will rule supreme,
Me, Starscreeeeeeam!"

Hah. The last Batman (arguably the most manly of all many superheroes) show did an entire musical episode (with Neil Patrick Harris!). It was terrific. Some people hated it, but I feel like most of them are the "Batman needs to be serious all the time forever RAWR!" types, and I don't need them:p

[Salli]

I appreciate everyone's input in this. I hadn't thought about it much, but growing up as the oldest of 7 siblings we all kind of liked things together. We'd all watch all of the cartoons together: ponies, transformers, Scooby-Doo, Gummi Bears, He-Man, Johnny Quest, Voltron, GI Joe, Fat Albert, Dinosaucers, etc... and each one of us kind of leaned toward a certain type (I was horse crazy, one brother liked Transformers and Voltron, one of my brothers liked baby-type dolls, my sister was more into dogs/puppies, etc...) but we all got into eachother's interests in some way or another. We also mashed up our toys when we were playing like Voltron and the ponies battling the combined forces of Cobra and Skeletor. I feel really lucky that no one ever cared what we were playing or how we were playing. We all just were free to develop our own personal styles and tastes.

I guess we also didn't feel like the shows were steering us in any gender stereo-types. Hadn't thought about it but I don't think any of us ever felt 'uncomfortable' watching shows. I am glad that more guys like FiM and I also feel like times have changed a lot and straight guys can say 'Hey, I LOVE Pinkie Pie!!' without getting alienated or labeled. I don't think that would have happened in the 80's (where I'm from ).

[Dragonflitter]

I feel really lucky that no one ever cared what we were playing or how we were playing. We all just were free to develop our own personal styles and tastes.

Awww. What a good story! I think that says a lot about your family, in a good way. I wish more kids were allowed to play however they wanted, as long as they're playing safely of course.

I have a horrible experience that haunts me even today. In the G3 days (probably around 2005) I was cruising the toy aisle of Wal-mart looking for new G3's and it was about Halloween time. I suddenly heard a very young voice from the next aisle over, a little boy saying loudly that he wanted to be a Care Bear for Halloween. Then a very angry adult male voice told him that he couldn't be a Care Bear because that's "a cartoon for girls."   It was so disheartening to hear.

Sad to think a cartoon that is actually pretty gender-neutral (with an about equal mix of male and female characters) is still considered a 'girl cartoon' because it talks about friendship and feelings.