Ponies "changed" by time - Thoughts? G1 discussion

[NoDivision]

You asked "So I'm wondering if - in the pony world - time related issues can cause what would be considered "variations""

And we're saying no. These things aren't, in the pony community, considered variations. They're considered flaws and the different flaws have accepted names and definitions. So there's no point trying to call a pony with faded pink hair anything other than a pony with faded pink hair.

Subsequent posts restate the question "do you keep flawed ponies in your collection if they look nice?" But that was only down at the very bottom of the first post and was preceded by a bulk of comments about 'variations', so hopefully you can see why much of the conversation has been around that.

To answer that question: Sure! I'm not fussy about slightly faded eyes or not-so-pink hair. Those aren't bannable offenses in my herd. But I don't think I'd keep them if I found the same pony in better condition. I'm not one for duplicates even if they are slightly different.

[Sunshine]

Thank for summing up the ENTIRE communities opinion NoDivision....

[NoDivision]

...okay? I was just trying to help explain and summarize what people in this thread were saying. These are pretty much accepted terms in the pony community, that's all I'm saying - and what other people have said as well. I'm sorry if that's out of line in some way? But I find your response to me pretty uncalled for and upsetting, so I'm just going to excuse myself from this conversation now.

[Sunshine]

You did post a summary, "We're saying no" - not every single person that posted was like, "We all hate these they're just damaged ponies" - some people, like me, answered the question of - personal preference, do you keep them if the "change" strikes you?

If we were having a conversation in real life, we would be past all these terminology issues because we could just... explain better. Without typing this and using terms that people are stuck on.

Forget the terms! Call it a "damaged pony" for all I care, call it a "changed pony" - call it whatever. That was my bad for making a term too close to Variant for people to distinguish as being something separate. I'm not trying to -change the pony world- by creating a term for these kinds of "changed ponies"... It's an opinion thing and I don't think one person can come on and say, "Well this is the opinion of a large community of people. Done and done."

Anyway, I tried to change the first post so people would be more on the topic of "Do you notice these, do you keep them, do you consider them different" - it's FINE that most people want to say they're damaged. That's great - it's true. It's the cut and dry facts, but what I was trying to express is: If you find a Applejack who's symbols are now yellow and not red, but she's very nice otherwise - Are you keeping her in your collection?
 
I'm glad that there is a discussion but, it's all coming back to people saying that *I* am trying to call these things something like Oddity or Variant to get money out of them! I'm not - I'm looking for some word that just says what I'm describing and it has nothing to do with anything else. And it's not about ME, I was just trying to open the board up and then clarify when the word use I chose was too... confusing.

[KarentheUnicorn]

I don't think anyone was accusing you, Sunshine, of trying to sell your ponies and describe them incorrectly to get money out of people.

To me selling/trading ponies is a valid point to be brought up when discussion how ponies are described. It's not about you personally or your ponies at all in any way.

I just assumed in a discussion about terminology used in the collecting community a valid point to bring up is why there are accepted terms; because people have been scammed before. So what other reason is there to discuss this? If we are really having a discussion, a important reason in explaining an opinion is to give reasons WHY people feel the way they do.

To me if you are using a word personally, for your own sake/collection then it shouldn't matter what the rest of the collecting world thinks. IF you think a certain pony you own is awesome then...I really don't see what the issue is at all...

[Sunshine]

Karen, I agree I apologize if I seemed short but I definitely never meant this to turn into a terminology discussion, and tried to update the first post to be more along the lines of...

"How do you feel about these kinds of ponies? Do you keep them? Do you like them? Etc..." and so, it definitely was off track from the moment I posted it because I should've made the question much more clear about personal preference and much less about terminology, as that is not what I originally intended.

Also, I do have to say I felt attacked by everyone saying that *I* was trying to call them one thing or another, even if it wasn't intended that way, I did feel that way and do apologize for being defensive on that front.

[hathorcat]

I don't think anyone was attacking you directly Sunshine...it was the concept which was being presented which I think caused the strong opinions. As opinion was weighted heavily against what people thought the original post was saying, [the original post did mention considering a fully regrind pony a "variation" so I am sure you can see why people were confused], I can understand how it would feel that every one was attacking. But it was the idea they [including myself] were against not yourself or even your opinions. Please be assured, it was just the idea

If the whole post is simply about "do you like and/or keep 'changed/flawed' ponies". Then that's a straight forward enough one to answer. I think its the idea of them being called anything other than what they were [flawed] or why we would need to give them a certain definition after all these years that was causing the confusion and the upset.

[ashlyne]

Also, I do have to say I felt attacked by everyone saying that *I* was trying to call them one thing or another, even if it wasn't intended that way, I did feel that way and do apologize for being defensive on that front.

I'm sorry you felt attacked, and I'm pretty sure no one intended it to be that way     We're just all trying to clear up some confusion and explain why the conversation went way off course. 

I am, however, a *little* offended by the way this is coming across though....

  Many people can't distinguish Variant from Variation. My bad. I was trying to describe these are TWO DIFFERENT things, but, many people are stuck on VARIANT/VARIATION.  

I'm sorry but I'm not "stuck", or can't distinguish between the two words.  They really do mean the same thing!  Copied from Webster's Dictionary:   
VARIANT (noun)  something that is different in some way from others of the same kind
VARIATION (noun)  something that is similar to something else but different in some way

I'm not trying to be mean, but just explain why a lot of people have responded the way they did and why I think that statement above is a little unfair. 

[nollilols]

Yep, in fairness to the people who took it the wrong way, it was a long initial post which mentioned 'variations' which literally are variants, as Ashlyne said, and if the question wasn't about terms and just about whether people keep flawed ponies in their collections, the entire first post could just have said something like,

'Does anyone here like to keep duplicate ponies which are sufficiently flawed by regrind, fading etc. to the extent that they have entirely different colour schemes/appearances from their minty counterparts?'

[Sunshine]

I was NOT trying to make that statement sound like I was "talking down" to anyone Ashlyne - seriously, what I meant moreso was "within the post I made, where I was trying to make them two different things - people were unable to distinguish exactly what I meant" - and that is because - basically - what you said, they are the same thing - it was a poor choice of words to use when trying to describe it. Which is why I said - call them whatever you want - Oddball, Weirdo, Double, Different, Changed, I did't want this to be a terminology thing...


Hindsight is always 20/20 on how to perfectly pose a question...

[ashlyne]

Thanks for clearing that up for me 

[nollilols]

Hindsight is always 20/20 on how to perfectly pose a question...

They're two completely different questions though. The current title of this topic still doesn't actually reflect the question you're apparently asking. Can time create 'changed' ponies - well, what are 'changed' ponies? After much initial confusion over terminology we've established they're 'flawed' ponies. So the answer to that question is 'yes, time does create flawed  ponies'. It's not an opinion issue.

That's completely seperate from 'do you keep flawed ponies in your collection if they look sufficiently different from their mint forms?' Which is apparently what you are actually asking people, and is no way indiciated in the topic title (original or current).

All the same, the important thing is we know what you're trying to ask now! 

[SeashellnBubbles]

To answer Shineys TRUE question, if something stands out as wonky to me, say I'm checking out an auction and hey...there's something differentabout that pony...I'll send the auctioneer a question about it. If it comes back as it's just a regular pony with some kind of funky age related issue, i weigh it in my head.
That's pretty nifty! I want that in my collection! Or:
Puke...pass.
The percieved "value" of that pony is up to me and me alone.

The Pony collecting community is one of self regulation. Should I try and misrepresent a pony as a Variant (faded symbol Posey, say) the Pony community would be all over me via messages to inform me of my error. This has happened many times since I joined; not to me, but in other auctions I've seen and read about via the TP messages. If I have something I'm not sure of (blue eyed Firefly) I ask and am told. It's a pretty cool way to learn and pass info along.

And yes. I collect wonky ponies. I luvs me a good faded Argie Ribbs. Many funky ponies are still a question mark in many collectors minds...are the Squeeky Butts true ponies? Are the Argie Fakie Powder/Whomever fakie a true fakie (it does have Hasbro on it) and many pony discoveries have yet to be made in the Vennie market. Evil people have been selling "variants" of these ponies for years by rehairing them in selling to ill-informed people.

I consider my Argentina Fakie Powder mashup to be a real MLP, though now she's been repainted and rehaired as the world's first Argie Hopscotch. I would never even THINK of selling her as a Variant, a OOAK, or anything like that. And my believing she's a real MLP doesn't matter in the real world. Only in my magical little room, which waits with open arms for her return from Shiney's spa.

[ashlyne]

I also have a whole herd of faded and discolored Windy ponies (including one that would easily pass as the mythical White Windy).  But I don't keep them because I like them necessarily. I keep them because they're useful whenever the topic of White Windy comes up ....over and over again. 

[nollilols]

*.....has never heard of White Windy.... googles her rather than asking*