Better or worse made my choice? Horse owning discussion

[NovelNerd]

Haha, alright sorry for making so many horse topics lately! I would just combine this with the pictures, but I think it's more of a different topic rather than just showing pictures of horses.

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Alright I know I mentioned it some in the horse picture thread. Let me make things quick.
I grew up on a massive farm. It was always a family thing to farm, but now my parents do it more as a side thing than a money making occupation. My grandparents pretty much lived off it and those before them ect. That means I grew up around horses since I was little, and my dad has always been a pretty big breeder of paints and quarter horses. I used to do competition stuff mostly barrel racing and pole bending along with Cowboy mounting shooting (only novice like on the shooting. I didn't like it as much) I also tended to ride a lot of horses. I think usually I had four main horses and would saddle them up each afternoon after school and ride for hours. My dad even put out those big night flood lights on my arena, so I could practice at night. It's actually a wonder I passed school with such high marks spending so much time in the saddle instead of studying.

Anyway I stopped competing and most of my horse related activities probably five years ago. My dad stopped breeding as much when the economy became just awful. About three years ago he sold off most of the heard except maybe some of the work horses and one broodmare that was a childhood present he got for me. We bought her originally as a horse for me to train and use for trail riding. In the end she was wonderful in many respects, but a bit smaller than my taste. She ended up being a broodmare, but is still a sweet little girl and has some mega big foals.    Anyway she is a dun/white paint mare, registered with some Zippo Pine Bar and Gunsmoke (maybe not the completely most popular horses, but two of my favorite stock horses...I don't know why. I actually like TBs a lot).

The other day I discussed with my father the possibility of my paying to breed her (since he doesn't have a stud anymore). Now, it wouldn't be for about a year since I want to save to have this horse and find a place to stable it, and it would give me time and then almost another year while she's pregnant. He kinda nudged at me to come see her last colt, and see if I would be interested in him.

He's is almost two and just about taller than her, shows promise of some growth. He is more or less a medicine hat and only has the hat with a small light splotch on his chest. He has his mother's small baby doll head, a bit of a long neck (but typical for his age to not fully filled out yet) he is pretty stocky and has a lot of her body features. He seems though to have the potential of being much larger. This being said I'm not one to judge a horse by it's looks. I almost always go by their personality and ability (since I did competition of course). Matter of fact everyone in my family always rode pretty paint horses, some of my dad's nice stock. I always rode nice horses, but typically sorrel geldings or mares because they were just better horses for what I needed.

My dad is being pretty nice he's offering to hold off on selling this boy here to let me mull it over. He's also open to my eventual breeding of my Princess. That means eventually I would either have two brothers or brother/sister pair, since I want two horses but only two.

The positives in all this is:
He is a nice looking horse, and I know the stock he comes from even his sire is a well bred stallion I know
His dam is a mare I know well of course and she has nice lines as well
My father is actually willing once he is old enough to ask his buddy (good guy with horses) to start the initial work with my horse here. (I don't mind green horses. I almost always rode green ones they are just more fun, and I trained a lot of ours. I'm rusty though and do not wish to bust my but the first time. Let someone else do it)
He's offered to even start having him burro halter trained

Negatives:
He's not been handled mostly out in the field. It will take a lot of time to gentle him, and of course there is always the possibility that he will just not gentle.
He's older than I wanted. I wanted a young one to work with, so I could also spend time with one of the other horses getting back into riding again. I could simply do ground work with the foal till it was old enough. I like working ground up.
He will be a horse I'll need to start investing in next year, and I wanted at least two years before I started.


General concerns
Keep in mind I've alwyas lived on a farm with horses, my family grows their own hay and we buy feed in those massive bulks that have to be pulled in by a tractor. This would be my first horse on my own expenses, and I do not live close enough to leave the horse there with my parents. I would love to find a house with land, but more than likely I would either be renting a lot or stabling. Those of you that stable or rent what is it like? I know I could probably haul hay and buy it from family large round bails assuming I get a lot, so I might not have to spend as much on hay as most people. Still I'm not new to the massive amount of care and expenses a horse needs. What I don't understand is the expense and consequences of renting or stabling. how do you even find a place that is trustworthy?

I know I'll need a new saddle. I have three of them actually, but I'll need something different. I ride western and usually a barrel racers saddle. I love circle Y brand saddle wear, does anyone use circle Y anymore? Any good recommendations? I've always been really picky with saddles. I remember taking six months to find one when I started competing seriously.

[glory78]

I'd say that you're better off waiting for a better fit when you're ready to start investing time and money.  I'm sure you could gentle this guy but it sounds like he's not *really* what you want.  Just my two cents.
glory78
eta: As far as boarding goes, it can be hard to find a good fit.  Start by doing an internet search in your area.  Pick your favorites in terms of price and amenities and start visiting.  A good barn should have friendly management and friendly boarders.  One thing to consider is if this is a training facility where you may be expected to partake in some form of training offered, and whether or not you're allowed to use the arenas while lessons or training is going on.  Most barns I've been in allow this but it's a good question to ask.  Most boarding facilities in my area provide hay but it can vary depending upon area.  Once you've got a couple of top choices head out to your local feed or tack stores and chat up the employees-they hear everything-and ask them about your options.  Then just pick one and try it out. 
g

[Eviecorn]

I have no useful advice, but if he's not everything you want, I'd probably hold out for what's great for you before you make that kind of investment.  Good luck!

[kaoskat]

I have no advice I'm afraid, but best of luck deciding.

[NovelNerd]

I'd say that you're better off waiting for a better fit when you're ready to start investing time and money.  I'm sure you could gentle this guy but it sounds like he's not *really* what you want.  Just my two cents.
glory78
eta: As far as boarding goes, it can be hard to find a good fit.  Start by doing an internet search in your area.  Pick your favorites in terms of price and amenities and start visiting.  A good barn should have friendly management and friendly boarders.  One thing to consider is if this is a training facility where you may be expected to partake in some form of training offered, and whether or not you're allowed to use the arenas while lessons or training is going on.  Most barns I've been in allow this but it's a good question to ask.  Most boarding facilities in my area provide hay but it can vary depending upon area.  Once you've got a couple of top choices head out to your local feed or tack stores and chat up the employees-they hear everything-and ask them about your options.  Then just pick one and try it out. 
g

I might just think on it, mostly because after all he belongs to my dad. I don't think he's in a hurry to sell the guy, so I have time to think on it. Haha, my biggest issues are simply him being older than I want with the lack of training. I've always started handling my little ones at a very young age. @_@

Boarding places make you participate and stuff? Oh wow, that is not something I would have any interest in. Haha, is it common that you have to do things like that? I just want somewhere to pay to stable, maybe with some places to ride around. I'm sure of course having to share with other people...but I don't really want to have to deal with anyone else. I don't like riding with other people, talking to them or dealing with them in general. I just want to be around them in general when I'm working with horses. I might do best with a lot.

Evie: Ah well know already said it, but biggest concern is just the gentling aspect of him. When i was talking to my dad today I was all "if he does well with the training and responds well he's a horse I could see myself liking." Honestly this is true, but I just worry as to how well he will turn. I wish I had the facilities and time currently, and I would just have him moved next to me and start working with him immediately as a trial period.

[LeighAnnApanites]

Definitely take your time to think it over, since it sounds like you've got it. I don't know what exactly, your training philosophy is, but I've had a lot of success with the natural horsemanship round pen kind of work like Monty Roberts and John Lyons use. Several years ago my parents adopted a pair of wild ponies off the outer banks of NC and I got to train them to have ground manners and halter and lead, etc . . . and it's relatively simple and works well, low stress for the horses, and is also remarkably fast. I had these ponies/horses (they're technically horses, but they're pony sized due to their breeding and living on a barrier island. Gosh, I could go on and on about them, but I'll stop for now!) standing to let me touch them all over, groom them, drag a rope on them, halter, and lead short distances within a day or two which was total of maybe three hours work, each. They were at least two years old when we got them. Anyway, my point with all that rambling is that my opinion would be that being pasture raised with little handling wouldn't necessarily be a detriment to his ability to be well mannered in the future, as long as his personality is good.

As far as finding a place to board, based on what you've said, you might be more comfortable in a less formal place. I know around here there are lots of places where people like to have just a boarder or two to help offset the cost of keeping their own horses. The place I'm taking lessons now is like that. My trainer keeps one of her horses there and they let her give lessons. Notice boards and want ads are probably a place to start looking for something like that, but be sure to do your research. Talking with tack/feed store folks and vets too is going to be very useful. And make lots of visits before you decide. Including/especially an unannounced visit. If they won't let you just drop by sometime (within reason, of course) that's probably not a good sign.

Good luck! (I want a horse SO bad right now!)

[Brandi]

I think it would be better if you waited until you can get a foal to start from the ground up, but good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[NovelNerd]

Definitely take your time to think it over, since it sounds like you've got it. I don't know what exactly, your training philosophy is, but I've had a lot of success with the natural horsemanship round pen kind of work like Monty Roberts and John Lyons use. Several years ago my parents adopted a pair of wild ponies off the outer banks of NC and I got to train them to have ground manners and halter and lead, etc . . . and it's relatively simple and works well, low stress for the horses, and is also remarkably fast. I had these ponies/horses (they're technically horses, but they're pony sized due to their breeding and living on a barrier island. Gosh, I could go on and on about them, but I'll stop for now!) standing to let me touch them all over, groom them, drag a rope on them, halter, and lead short distances within a day or two which was total of maybe three hours work, each. They were at least two years old when we got them. Anyway, my point with all that rambling is that my opinion would be that being pasture raised with little handling wouldn't necessarily be a detriment to his ability to be well mannered in the future, as long as his personality is good.

As far as finding a place to board, based on what you've said, you might be more comfortable in a less formal place. I know around here there are lots of places where people like to have just a boarder or two to help offset the cost of keeping their own horses. The place I'm taking lessons now is like that. My trainer keeps one of her horses there and they let her give lessons. Notice boards and want ads are probably a place to start looking for something like that, but be sure to do your research. Talking with tack/feed store folks and vets too is going to be very useful. And make lots of visits before you decide. Including/especially an unannounced visit. If they won't let you just drop by sometime (within reason, of course) that's probably not a good sign.

Good luck! (I want a horse SO bad right now!)

Well it's been six years since I've worked with a young horse, but typically since we bred them I imprint them from the start, and then I do the round pen training. I don't follow exactly how Lyons or the others would do it. I used to attend a lot of barrel clinics, and I follow a method similar but used more by my ex barrel racing instructors. It's not that different, so thankfully I am familiar with what you're talking about there. Maybe I didn't put it exactly so..hmm lemme think of how to put it. I mean of course it's different for every horse and comes from temperament, environment and training...but I mean the established bond I suppose. I've always had far better luck with horses that were handled at a young age. They could all be trained to ride ect, but sometimes the connection just didn't mesh if that makes sense? I've had plenty that while rideable and great horses were just never big "people" horses, and I always think spending time with them while young helps. You know unless you spoil them rotten, then that's pretty much worse than training a free roaming horses. Wild Ponies? Oh that would be so fun to work with those. <3 Haha, back on topic though I just like having that established sense of trust with the horse before breaking them. 

We've actually had several I worked with that were plain insane. They were not even wild horses or anything, but rather ones that dad bought registered paints mind you that were left out to pasture to breed. The adults hadn't even been handled for years, and they were pretty difficult. I was always amused what a difference the burro lead training did with them. Kinda silly watching them follow that burro around.

Thank you for the boarding tips. I'll have to look into it and see what the local vets say. I mean ideally I wanted a lot so it would be all my own, but unless it was close to the house I would be paranoid. I would hate to have my horse out there unsupervised for such long periods, and that is why stabling became an option. I would at least know the horse was taken care of while I was away.

Leigh & Brandi: Well I told him for now I'm interested and to keep him for me till I decide things. I wasn't going to give a yes or no answer to it, but apparently he was just going to give the horse away to a friend. I wouldn't mind so much since they could spend time with him and the guy works on a farm...but then my dad hinted that there was also the possibility that the guy just might take him out of state to slaughter. :/  I'd rather try him than the poor boy suffer from that. The worst happenings there would be it doesn't work out, and I eventually have to sell him...but hopefully I could find him a better home than a slaughter house.

Eh, I hadn't realized the horse market had become so terrible. My dad actually said horse prices had fallen so badly after they made slaughter house sending illegal that people do not buy horses anymore. People are just giving them away and most are being shipped outside areas to slaughter houses anyway. @_@ Sounds like all that backfired.

[TwistedWindSox]

I would wait for something that is EXACTLY what you want, but that's just me. I made the mistake of buying a horse that wasn't just what I wanted, and now I can't sell her because of medical problems she has that the previous owner didn't tell us about.
So, yeah. I would wait for something that fits you better. If you find out in the meantime that you like this horse, maybe you could go with him.

[Katika]

Keep in mind that even if you breed the mare that you're thinking about, there's always the chance that you won't get quite what you want out of her, either.  (But I'm sure you're more than familiar with the Russian roulette of horse breeding )  I think that you summed up your actual thoughts on this guy pretty well, all by yourself.  He's older than you wanted to not have any prior training on him, and you're not looking for a 100% project horse at this time.  You even admitted yourself that you know that horses are big financial and time-consuming investments, and if you have any reservations, I think it's best to let this one pass.

As far as boarding goes...

I started my horse keeping life doing self-care board.  First stable was they provide a stall, a turnout and hay, and all of the work and grain was provided by me.  It was a lovely arrangement, really, but in my particular situation, was kind of rough because it was at a University stable with several other boarders, students and often times random people from the public that wanted to pet horses coming by.  There wasn't a lot of security for our personal belongings, and unless each horse's owner was there at the time, there really wasn't any way to monitor who was using (or stealing) your equipment, or if there were non-horsey people there feeding (or even handling!) your horse.  One evening, I even showed up to find my gelding *loose on the front lawn* because someone let him out of his paddock.

The second stable I boarded at was pretty similar to the first, only I had to buy my own hay, but I got a stall with a built-in run and a roomy 10x12 private, locking tack room.  This was also on a military base, so it was more secure than the typical boarding facility.  There were still a few unknown variables, as there is *any* time people that aren't yourself are around your horse, but it really was a nice place to be.

The third stable came when we moved to Florida and summed up 100% why I *hate* boarding horses.  The facility was beautiful, but the owner was a patholigical liar with very little horse experience (that she covered up nicely until you'd already started making friends there).  It was completely full care board, so even when I said "I want my horse getting a full scoop of grain" I had absolutely no control over how much he was getting, and no way to tell for sure unless I came out and followed during chore time.  Long story short, this facility was completely to blame for my gelding at the time losing a tremendous amount of weight, as well as physically abusing my mare to the point that she became aggressive (as in two people *and* stud chains just to turn her out kind of aggressive).  It took me about a year and a half to get her head back on straight after leaving that hellhole.  Yes, shame on me for staying there, but at the same time, I didn't get to see what happened "after hours" when the barn closed and I could no longer be with my horses for the day.

I didn't want to do full care boarding ever again, but there aren't many other options in Florida, so I found myself at a semi-private eventing barn.  The semi-private atmosphere was the key to me being able to breathe, but there still was a huge lack of control over how my horses were managed and cared for.  At this particular barn, they'd listen to my requests to change feed, but still do what they wanted.  I think that what it comes down to is that if you board, you have to give up a LOT of control over your horses' day-to-day, and to me, that just makes me uncomfortable.

Moving to Missouri, we bought our own small farm.  I know that you're no stranger to working with horses, based on how you grew up, but it *is* a lot more work being the only one available to take care of them.  Boarding allows you time to go on vacation without making prior horse arrangements or just not go out to the barn if you're feeling sick or something, whereas keeping them at home doesn't give you that kind of luxury.  However, for being able to decide when to throw them more hay, or change their grain, or decide when they need to be sheltered from the elements and that kind of thing, it's more than worth the trade-off to me.

[NovelNerd]

I would wait for something that is EXACTLY what you want, but that's just me. I made the mistake of buying a horse that wasn't just what I wanted, and now I can't sell her because of medical problems she has that the previous owner didn't tell us about.
So, yeah. I would wait for something that fits you better. If you find out in the meantime that you like this horse, maybe you could go with him.

It happens all the time. That's just part of buying and trading horses, people are dishonest and not to sound negative, but generally when people sell horses and they sound good then I tend to be skeptical. Some people sell a good competition horse because they no longer compete, some people sell horses for money issues (especially lately), but if they have horses still and give that particular one a lot of praise with no mention of flaws I'm always wary. That being said though we never bought horses without a trial period and a vet check. I wouldn't dream of buying one otherwise. I like to have some sort of insurance. Also, lol since it's coming from my broodmare and my dad's stock he would take the boy back if there was an issue or help me sell him. Any other person I would be worried, but considering it's a family horse I'm not worried about being cheated. I do appreciate the concern and good advice, just my dad is one person who would not sell me a fault horse or refuse to take him back ect.

Kat: Yes, haha I've had my share of hopes in the past when we would breed certain horses or seek out a certain stud. Always in hopes of some "amazing" product. Truth is you just never know, no matter what the match is anything could happen. then of course training is half of it. If I ever start competing again I know I'll be looking for something specific, but right now I just want a pleasure horse that might have the potential of competition eventually? If they have the right temperament and handling I feel that the majority of horses can handle what I'm looking for. @_@

I actually ended up telling him I would take the horse guys. Let me kind of give my brief reasons
1) Least he's coming from my dad and my mare of choice with a decent stud. My major issue is the timing and the lack of handling which my dad is somewhat trying to compensate.  The horse is scheduled to be gelded in about a week. We've decided to wait till next summer or a bit before it maybe spring when someone can handle and work with him for riding purposes. Then I will either spend some time going home over th esummer or look to find him a place by then here with me.  Some people rent lots by the year, and that's something I will look into. The idea is though after he has his initial training he will spend time with me, and we will see how well we fit together. The worst thing that could happen out of this situation is we will not mesh....but I see positives.

If the gelding is broke to ride even if I get rid of him someone will take him as a riding horse, and he will avoid slaughter. I feel like it's the right choice to make because I'm in a lax situation and have the chance to bow out of it if necessary. If this was a straight up buying situation with another person I wouldn't do it at all.

Off topic Kat, but you're around Missouri? My mother's family is from Harrison so not that far off. I do think though after listening to your different stabling situations I'm going to try very hard to possibly find a nearby lot. It might have some negative sides to it, but I think it would be an ideal placement for me.

[ZennaBug]

Congrats on your decision, he is so handsome! 

[NovelNerd]

Thank you! Haha, I'm sure things will turn out for the best and work alright. I think it's funny because back when I was at home and working with them I always wanted a foal that looked like that. It figures one would show up after I left and stopped working with them.

[Brandi]

Congrats on your new horse!