so we are leaving the EU ......

[Taffeta]

Genuinely ashamed to be English on the back of this. Worried about backlash from Europe over trade and such, but really, genuinely heartbroken for the young people whose futures are being curtailed by the prejudices of an older generation. Especially since several pre vote promises have been withdrawn or denied by the OUT campaign since the vote. To me the whole thing is a farce and we are going to pay the price for it.

All that said, my parents both voted IN and my great aunt, who is 93, also did so. Our regions were swamped over by the OUT voters, but its not ALL generational.

It's just the highest proportion of out voters are not going to live as long with the consequences as the highest proportion of IN voters. The young people are angry that the older generation got all these perks and now have taken them away for the kids who follow.

It also wasn't democratic. Unless you consider voting based on untrue promises and where a person in their 90s gets to decide the future when a 17 year old (who would have been entitled to vote on independence in Scotland) doesn't get a say in their lives and their country's direction. Also the EU citizens who pay into our taxes and - I think - Guernsey, jersey and IOM? - didn't get votes - but Commonwealth people did?

There is absolutely nothing democratic about this vote. But nobody is fighting for the young people in parliament. And that's the saddest part of it.

I am pro staying in the EU. It has issues, but we should be there helping fix them. And if anyone disagrees, I'm sorry, but that's how I feel and I will never accept that this was a just and fair way of deciding the futures of so many people.

Especially since the places that voted OUT are going to get the biggest economic shock, as many of them are funded heavily by Europe and not by central government. Artie's analysis is a great breakdown - there is a total disconnect in a lot of the shires (county areas) from what goes on in London, and London itself is largely oblivious. I live between the two, and London yesterday morning was...a state of shock on the streets. They didn't see it coming. I was afraid of it, knowing the disconnect and how people resent central government in my home area. But I genuinely think it was the wrong thing to vote on to stick fingers up. It is going to have huge implications for a lot of these people.

And the areas which generally see most mixtures of culture and immigration were more likely to vote IN. Birmingham was an exception, but in recent years they've suffered a lot of economic downturn and London have helpfully ignored this by allowing important things to move to Manchester. The whole Midlands is very negative and struggled through the last recession. Govt cuts have hit very deeply across the area. We're not a very united Kingdom.

This kind of stress in the unknown and the change element is genuinely not a good combination with autism. I am also worried about the future for disabled people, being that the govt has tried once to shaft us in the last few months (entirely separated from this), and outside of the EU, there's no need to stick to EU rules.

[Artemesia's Garden]

I agree with you precisely, Taffeta

[Taffeta]

I just wonder why it's ok to tell lies to get votes and then nobody even argues with the verdict, even though it was based on false promises. If those were the original rules of the game, surely REMAIN could've been a bit inventive too, promised 200% pay rises if we stayed in Europe or some such...

Sigh, either way, I can't believe nobody (except Nissan, who can't change anything in the result) is challenging this verdict legally.  There must be something that says you can't sabotage the whole country based on false information just to get yourself a better job...? Surely?

It really annoys me that nobody in Westminster is fighting back. Cameron said when he was elected "we're in it together" -another promise he's yet to keep, first with austerity and now with this.

Sigh. Wish I was Scottish. Never mind.

[ladybastilla]

Politicians make their names on Cogsworth's advice to the Beast: 'Flowers, chocolates, promises you don't intend to keep...".

It's not right or fair, but it is the truth. Elections are about trying to deduce who or what is the lesser evil.

I am truly sorry to hear that this is happening. I am especially concerned for what it will mean for anyone dating or married to someone from another country. My aunt moved there to marry and I wonder how / if this will effect her.

[kaoskat]

All right, I'm going to say this once. This is an OT borderline subject on its own. This is not the place for political debates or rants. Emotions are running high with this vote, and I sympathize, but Off Topic is not the place for heavy topics. I understand the hurt, fear, and anger a lot of you are facing, or well, at least I understand you are facing it. Not being as affected as some of you are because of location, I'm not going to presume to know how you feel. However, if you need a true rant, as is perfectly understandable, please head to WYP and start a thread. Let's try to keep this thread as light as possible considering the subject matter. I don't want to have to move or lock it.

[Taffeta]

I dunno how anyone else feels and I;m not the OP, but imo maybe this should be moved to WYP if it's bothering the mods. It's not something that any of us can really be "light" about at the moment, since it's not just a discussion point but our lives, our futures...and our economies at stake. And I dunno about anyone else, but I feel it's really important we do talk about it - if for no other reason to reaffirm the fact that we as European ponypeople are all on the same side, irrespective of what politics is trying to do to those links.

@Ladybastilla, of course you're right, but I think this is a special case, because it's not an election, its a referendum which is meant to be permanent and irreversible. Elections can be undone by changing who is in power every 5 years. This is essentially a one way ticket. In those circumstances, it really shouldn't be decided on suspect information. People deserve to know the consequences of their vote before its counted, not the morning after.

[ladybastilla]

@Taffeta -- totally agree with you. We had one of those here a while ago when Quebec wanted to separate. Definitely a scary thing and definitely more permanent then an election. I hope things sort out all right for everyone, but it all seems very up in the air for now.

[Beldarna]

I've been letting this digest for a few days and I still don't know what to think. But it is sad it has come to this at a time where we really should stand united. On another side, Norway is not part of EU but a member of Nato and is doing fairly well. They were never a part of it from the beginning and has other preconditions, but still. There is always hope.

[Lore-Lei]

On another side, Norway is not part of EU but a member of Nato and is doing fairly well. They were never a part of it from the beginning and has other preconditions, but still. There is always hope.

Adding to that, Hungary lost all three of its sugar factories, the Szerencsi chocolate and Györi all being sold out to multis, and so much money have been called down from the EU that there is a 'this was funded by the EU programme' sign by every hypermarket, corner store, and painted log-pile of a bus stop that apparently cost three new cars... no way the country will be ever paying that back.

So if anything, the British don't need to be afraid of that happening to them any time soon, even if they were much higher on the 'food chain'.

[Artemesia's Garden]

On another side, Norway is not part of EU but a member of Nato and is doing fairly well. They were never a part of it from the beginning and has other preconditions, but still. There is always hope.

Adding to that, Hungary lost all three of its sugar factories, the Szerencsi chocolate and Györi all being sold out to multis, and so much money have been called down from the EU that there is a 'this was funded by the EU programme' sign by every hypermarket, corner store, and painted log-pile of a bus stop that apparently cost three new cars... no way the country will be ever paying that back.

So if anything, the British don't need to be afraid of that happening to them any time soon, even if they were much higher on the 'food chain'.

Interesting perspective tyx

[Taffeta]

I am resolved after the first shock to try and find the positives.

This may be good in the long run for all of Europe if we can all find a way to go forward that benefits us since apparently a lot of countries are opposed to closer EU integration. I don't want us to be the scapegoat for fixing the EU (at our expense) but I am hopeful that what various politicians have said about negotiating trade and movement and such with the EU is something that is true, and not another spin.

I value very much my European friends, on and offline, and I consider them like an extended family. I also feel very strongly (as my heritage is English, Welsh, Scottish and French-American, somewhere in there too) that I don't want the union to break up. But that is not for me to decide.

I think that, in the long run, we will all be fine. All of Europe. All of the world. Everything will sort itself out. Britain has a reputation for causing trouble, making rebellious decisions and basically doing stuff that makes everyone go "huh". That isn't necessarily good. But the disconnects in parts of our society (generational, class, government and people, city and shires, even, sadly, in some areas racial) are being exposed and that means, hopefully, they can be tackled and fixed.

It means I'm not buying anything from abroad for a while, till the £ stabilises. But I hope that, as time passes and everything begins to shake down, there will be positives to take from it.

Because, basically, we're stuck with it. But there isn't as much panic here from the important people - banks, business, etc - as you might expect there to be, considering. And the key people in Europe are also being cautious about making any snap judgements, which suggests negotiations will be possible that suit everyone.

Our media are doommongers and they don't help, because crisis sells papers...but I guess I'm going to try and wait for the actual crisis to hit before I let myself panic.

*takes a deep breath*

[Galactica]

I wonder what will happen.

I wonder if there will be any chance of a second "vote" ?

I wonder if fewer people would vote to leave now that it is clear there is no plan for how it will happen and given Cameron’s resignations.

[Artemesia's Garden]

If Theresa May wins the Tory leadership then there will be no second vote, she will go ahead with brexit.  She may do a good job as such, but we will leave.  Unless somehow we get an early general election and get the Tories out.

[tornadoe]

I feel like my future has been taken from me before I even got a chance to live it. On every message board and comments section I have been to, those who voted leave have been hurling abuse at those who voted to stay. One person even called us traitors. I have found that the only way to cope is to join a gym and work out in till I am to tired to be stressed. But the effects only last one day. As far as my long term future goes,this country is determined to return to the days of destroying the environment and abusing the most vulnerable so I have decided to move to Southern Ireland within one year. I don't have a chance of getting a job or my own home as no company will take on someone with special needs. Soon we will loose the rights and regulations that helped us so I am leaving to a place that will always have them and there I hope to have a future. I am ashamed to be British now and those who voted to leave have betrayed the memories of those who gave their lives in the world wars. They fought for a democracy that we have just thrown away.