G1's Cotton Candy and G1's Sweetheart were first release as blank flanks.

[Taffeta]

In the comic, and factfile, though, she's generally quite silly and she whistles a lot unnecessarily.

Gasp! New headcanon! UK Wind Whistler is Thistle Whistle's descendant.

Do you mean ancestor or does Thistle Whistle have a time capsule?

*gives cookies*

[FantasticFirefly]

Sorry I'm lazy. I didn't read everything here. Honestly the show to me (and TV specials) once I hit a set age- I saw it for what it was, extended commercials to sell toys. Almost all the shows of the era that attached to a toy line were of similar quality. Backcard stories- I'll buy the pony MOC and never really read them. And, the first comics I received were from the lovely Party Pony in a swap- they were super cool so I did look through them all. but alas, I can't remember the stories. Books, as a kid I used those to create a wishlists as a child (fail- canada with Gypsy, hopscotch and honeycomb on her wishlist!)

I am a detail focused collector- with the toys though. What papers they came with, what pieces, differences in release. So, again sorry this isn't a thread that hits the collector in me- but

I do remember always referring to markings as "symbols" and was happy being online where in auctions and on collectors forums everyone who collected called them "symbols". a friend tried to modernize me and used some of my pictures to make an imigar(sp?) account years back and he called them "cutie marks" it was the FIRST thing I edited out when I spotted it. If I weren't so lazy I'd go through my Hasbro papers and find the term. It had to have been used if I was one of many little kids in the middle of nowhere calling her 9 little ponies markings symbols without the paperwork.

The nerdy part of me- G1 has things that makes it G1. same for other gens, things are unique to that generation only. I don't like newer terms used interchangeably in the G1 line. 

I think there was an implication in RaMC that Ember didn't have her symbol because she was young, and that she would get it later.  At the time the writers would not have known that Hasbro would eventually produce newborn ponies with symbols, or even the Year 3 babies.  Ember was literally the only baby pony in production at the time.  (In three colors, LOL.)

I don't think freckles are a good comparison, since they're random skin pigmentation, whereas a symbol usually does tie in to a pony's personality.  Like, a balloon symbol can be interpreted in various ways--for Surprise, it symbolizes surprise parties, for Up, Up, and Away it symbolizes parties in general.  BUT there aren't any backcard stories where a pony with a balloon symbol turns out to absolutely hate balloons and parties.  Whereas if someone had a birthmark in the shape of a balloon, this might well be the case.

It would be a stinky turd with a party hat. Their name would be Party-Pooper. Her accessories would be frowny-faced stickers and a wet blanket.

Thank you. this made my day and caught my eye for a response!

[LadyMoondancer]

In the comic, and factfile, though, she's generally quite silly and she whistles a lot unnecessarily.

Gasp! New headcanon! UK Wind Whistler is Thistle Whistle's descendant.

Wow . . . it does make sense! 

I figured the cartoon-Wind-Whistler connection was that she is impartial and objective, like umpires are expected to be, and umpires wear whistles.  Which is a little bit "six steps to Kevin Bacon-ish", but still makes sense, I think.  When I think about whistles, coaches and umpires are the people who immediately spring to mind.  There ARE some cartoon ponies who don't have an explicit connection to their symbol, like Shady and Buttons, but they do have backcard stories that tie in with their symbols (Shady has magic sunglasses, Buttons made a dress covered with buttons for Megan).  Also most of the cartoon ponies do have symbols that tie in with their personalities:  Lickety-Split loves ice cream, Posey gardens, North Star loves to explore, and Baby Quackers actually goes around quacking like a duck. For some reason.

Also, just the fact that we call the rump markings "symbols", not "designs" or "markings" . . . Symbols symbolize.

Oh, and here's Wind Whistler's backcard story:

"LA-TE-DA," Wind Whistler sang happily as she did her chores. But the notes she sang fell from her lips and ran away! Wind Whistler put down her broom and followed them. She caught up with them just as they were dancing their way into the Wishing Well! "Hello down there," Wind Whistler called, poking her head into the well. "Hello down there," her voice echoed back. "Where are you?" Again, her voice echoed until a note popped up on the ledge. "The Wishing Well needs some happy notes to help grant wishes," the note explained. Hearing this, Wind Whistler sang loudly into the well. "DO-RE-ME-FA-SO-LA-TE-DO." The little note danced around the well with joy, then joined the others. "THANK YOU," a grateful voice echoed up. Wind Whistler flew off, happy that she could grant a wish for the Wishing Well.


Girl, you trippin'.

[Taffeta]

Sounds like she and Shady had a good trippy party together. If Shady's SS card had the magic sunglasses, it does explain why Shady in the UK comic was built around that idea, although she never had it on her card here. It doesn't explain why the SS card transmitted as far as the UK but didn't get into the animation studios, but that's another matter. I think a lot of the UK stories for the early period, where they existed/or fact file entries, which are sometimes the same or simplifications of stories are based on American release stories.

So I'd be really interested to know if the US has a canon about Magic Star being the most magical pony in the whole of ponyland. Because that's how the UK presented her, except on her own card, which related to the US produced movie.

Hasbro logic. No wonder WW and Shady were tripping.

I'm also a detail and bits collector, but my views of the ponies as characters are more strongly influenced by the comic I grew up with than the backcards, especially if the two conflicted (although they didn't always). I love the backcards for their art more than their stories.

Also, on this symbol evolution discussion, I'm not sure how that factors into Buttons having stars and buttons in the UK and on the US animation (I think?) plus in the comics, but also having three big buttons in the UK, in the SS release, and NOT on the cartoon...? Any ideas? Or are the whole of the 1987 Movie Star set just getting a little TOO into the eighties?

<--identifies with Fantastic Firefly from the opposite direction. Books with Glory and Medley :'( In fact I just opened the fact file to find Wind Whistler and the two ponies I opened it on are Firefly and Glory. In the UK file. In the UK comic. NOT on the UK shelf. Hasbro missed the ball on that one, since the point of promotion was surely to sell the ponies they wrote stories about? Meh.

Fact File for Wind Whistler

Wind Whistler loves music and often sings out loud in silly sentences. Her friend the west wind carries her musical messages all the way to the rainbow and back for everyone to enjoy.

So nothing to do with the SS card except that there's a musical connection. I remember one story in the comic or a book where she was definitely being silly and whistly about something.

Shady
Take a peek through Shady's magical sunglasses to see some magical surprises! Flowers will dance, clouds will drip beautiful colours and raindrops will climb up the sky! Shady likes to use her special sunglasses to play tricks on the other ponies when they least expect it.

^^ Now that is a serious acid trip

Re symbol, I don't know where the term came from or if Hasbro used it but in the UK they use rump mark and rump design in their promotional material etc. But from a collecting perspective, I think symbol is nicer.

[LadyMoondancer]

Symbol is a fan term, the only time I've ever seen it from Hasbro was in a misspelling in Baby Half Note's story, where it said "the symbols" (meaning cymbals) "clashed", lol!

About Buttons' stars and buttons, IMO the toy was originally designed with stars and buttons.  (Evidence:  She is drawn that way on the So-Soft backcard, and they used prototype ponies as models.)  But then Hasbro found they "disappeared" under her flocking.  So they changed her symbol.  But probably did not change her promotional material, which is what the animation people used to develop her show appearance.

So, either Hasbro UK started with the button and stars symbol and then changed it to match the "new" toy appearance (only buttons) or else they started with only-buttons symbols before realizing, hey, there's no flocking to get in the way so let's use the buttons-and-stars symbols.


Magic Star's backcard story:

Baby Blossom watched as Lofty flew up, up, to the sky. "I wish I could fly," she sighed. Magic Star waved her wand outside Baby Blossom's window. Baby Blossom magically sprouted pegasus wings and happily flew out the window. "Hello, Mr. Moon!" she laughed as she flew past him. Even the baby stars peeked out from behind their mothers to wave. Then, Magic Star tapped the ground and the Milky Way poured Baby Blossom a big glass of chocolate milk! When morning came, Magic Star made a slide of glittering stardust that led right into Baby Blossom's crib. As she climbed in, the wings disappeared. She fell sound asleep, dreaming of her adventure in the sky. "Sweet dreams, Baby Blossom," Magic Star whispered as she whisked off in search of another pony with a special wish.


So she isn't described as the MOST magical, but she does have a magic wand.  The most interesting thing about this story to me is that it uses Baby Blossom, who was not sold that year. Very unusual.

Shady's backcard story:

Mr. Sun was shining brightly as Shady took a walk in the cool summer's breeze. "It's so sunny!" Shady said, putting on her new sunglasses. Everything looked very pink through the colorful frames. Before long, she wandered into Posey's sweet smelling garden. She saw daisies dancing, sunflowers somersaulting and roses romping all around her. "Come join us," they called. Shady happily pranced over and danced with all the pretty flowers. They sang and played until Shady's sunglasses fell off. Suddenly, all the flowers were gone! When she put them back on, the flowers reappeared! "These sunglasses are magical!" Shady laughed, and danced with the flowers in the garden for the rest of the day.


The sunglasses are also mentioned in Paradise Estate's backcard story:

The ponies were spending a relaxing afternoon at the Paradise Estate when Shady burst onto the patio. "My sunglasses are missing!" she cried anxiously.
Cupcake, who was preparing a snack in the kitchen, raced outside. "What's all the fuss about?" she asked. "Shady's lost her sunglasses," Sweet Stuff answered between sips of pink lemonade. "My MAGIC sunglasses," Shady corrected her. "And they do some strange things," she warned.
The ponies organized a search party to look for the glasses. Truly inspected the living room, but all she found was Wind Whistler dancing around the room with stereo headphones wrapped over her ears. Ribbon checked the nursery but had to be very, very quiet because the baby ponies were taking a nap. Fizzy hunted outdoors, clumsily knocking over chairs as she looked around. But the sunglasses were no where to be found! The ponies met on the patio, hoping someone had found the glasses. "No luck," Shady sighed disappointedly.
Just then a large THUMP came from the direction of the swimming pool. There was Ripple, the baby sea pony, sitting on the bottom of the empty pool, wearing Shady's sunglasses. "Where'd the water go?" she asked, not realizing the magic sunglasses made the pool appear full.
The ponies laughed as they filled the pool. When the pool was full, Shady's sunglasses made the waves jump up, down and around for a magical game of water tag. "Jump in," Shady urged, passing her sunglasses to the next swimmer on the diving board. The ponies splished and splashed for the rest of the afternoon, happy that Shady's sunglasses had been found.

[banditpony]

Symbol is a fan term, the only time I've ever seen it from Hasbro was in a misspelling in Baby Half Note's story, where it said "the symbols" (meaning cymbals) "clashed", lol!

Didn't Hasbro give "symbols" a name at some point in time?

[LadyMoondancer]

Symbol is a fan term, the only time I've ever seen it from Hasbro was in a misspelling in Baby Half Note's story, where it said "the symbols" (meaning cymbals) "clashed", lol!

Didn't Hasbro give "symbols" a name at some point in time?

The only official term I can think of is "rump design" from G2 and, if I recall correctly, "rump marking" from the UK comics.  And then "cutie marks" in G3, which was inherited by G4.


Oh, and here's a picture of a So-Soft backcard showing Buttons with stars-and-buttons as her symbol:

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Also note SS Heart Throb with winged hearts and Wind Whistler with pink and BLUE whistles, not ONLY pink whistles (which is what the So-Soft toy ended up with).  I am guessing the blue whistles were too hard to see under the flocking . . . Anyway, I am pretty sure the backcard ponies were drawn using real toys as models at this time, as the poses are sooo spot-on.  (Also because I actually own the winged-heart Heart Throb prototype, so I know they're out there.)

Also, wow, Lofty's story is another one that references earlier ponies!  Neat!

[Taffeta]

http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/mlpmedia/newadvert.html

There are rump design rump marking references but I can't find them right now. I found this one, though, which talks about markings and body markings, so let's add that to the list maybe?
http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/advert_lfp.htm
This one also just says markings....

Maybe hasbro thought by this time rump discussions were a bit off...?

I always wonder why Ribbon is in Megan and Sundance's UK story, when she wasn't sold here. Ribbon, the unicorn pony, no less...

Also, Wind Whistler's UK symbol, of course, is pink and blue whistles...And on our card for Buttons...she has three big buttons. As does she in the proto photo in the catalogue for 1987...but not in the comic, and not always on the pony...
http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/comic_buttons.jpg
http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/ww_cardback.jpg

Unfortunately I don't have the catalogue image uploaded.

So apparently the UK card art is based on the UK prototypes which are basically like the SS ponies without flocking but the UK ponies, except Buttons, are more like the ponies drawn on the SS cards that weren't sold in N. America. Did I get that right?
Sigh.

[LadyMoondancer]

Here's the G2 reference . . . "Special rump design!"

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Interesting, in that picture Wind Whistler also has all pink whistles.  But the UK one was never sold with all pink, was she?

So apparently the UK card art is based on the UK prototypes which are basically like the SS ponies without flocking but the UK ponies, except Buttons, are more like the ponies drawn on the SS cards that weren't sold in N. America. Did I get that right?
Sigh.

I think so, lol.

[ringwraith10]

I'll just confuse the topic even more and add Pokemon lore to the mix...

Maybe Nurse Sweetheart is a Mega-Evolution of Sweetheart! 

But riddle me this: Nurse Sweetheart is just a different version of Sweetheart. G4 has given us approximately 1000 different versions of the "Mane 6". How do you explain all of those different versions? I know that some are explained in the show, but not all.

[banditpony]

Ah, yeah. Rump design. That's what I was thinking of.

I didn't know about markings. I like that.

I can't remember what we called them as a kid, I just know it was "butt ____" but I can't remember what.

ETA: *falls over* mega evolution. 

[MoondancerMilkyWay]

well holy goodness this exploded.

the only thing I'll say is what others have said.

you're trying too hard to apply G4 cartoon cannon to G1 toys and cartoons. they are very much unrelated.
both made by hasbro. sure. both colorful equines with art on their rump. sure.
that's about where it ends.

symbol vs cutie mark
means mostly nothing vs means absolutely everything
no one cares vs it's the biggest deal ever

[Dragonflitter]

Hee hee this is a great thread, I love investigating how they advertised things back in the 80's!

You know, I think it's very strange that they so rarely referenced the pony's butt symbols at all in their little stories! Their backcards talk about all sorts of things, accessories the ponies wear, stuff they own like magic wands or sunglasses or headphones, and sometimes mention other ponies and sometimes a special friend like a duck or (apparently living, sentient) stars. And yet we hardly ever get a reference to their symbols! Like LadyMoondancer said on page 2, no pony ever says to another one "Oh cool symbols!" or "Your symbols look lovely today!"

I think that just shows that originally they didn't really plan the ponies personalities or stories to revolve around the symbols, it was just a cute little thing that often (but not always) influenced their name or colors, etc.

In the comic, and factfile, though, she's generally quite silly and she whistles a lot unnecessarily.

Gasp! New headcanon! UK Wind Whistler is Thistle Whistle's descendant.

Do you mean ancestor or does Thistle Whistle have a time capsule?

*gives cookies*

Whoops! Yes, I meant ancestor. Silly me!

[Taffeta]

Interesting, in that picture Wind Whistler also has all pink whistles.  But the UK one was never sold with all pink, was she?

Never seen one yet.  Whether she does in the proto image, you tell me...
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I so did not name the file that >.>. Scan courtesy of Pranceatron, I don't have a bigger version unfortunately, though someone might.

I think the thread's turned into a general ponylore discussion which is fun

[banditpony]

I think the thread's turned into a general ponylore discussion which is fun

It is fun, I'm enjoying it.