Ok... I have to ask....

[princessluna11706]

O MY GOSH princessluna .. That is amazing that you have all of that knowledge on the prototype process from a close contact.. WOW
Perhaps he can help shed some light on sundance and other prototypes we have if he is willing of course.

I can definitely contact him and get his opinion

[Honeycomb]

Even if you decide to send her back, you can't, because the seller won't take her back, and he/she doesn't even have to; it was a private auction, not from a business seller, so it's not possible to return it.

If I were you, I wouldn't get influenced too much from those who say she isn't real; there might be some jealousy, too, you know?
You decided you want her, to believe in her, and when I look at those photos, she looks totally stunning and worth having in your collection.

[Christahope]

She is absolutely lovely!! That pose really suits her, of course I'm a softy for collector poses. I'm not an expert, but I think she's real. There's many similarities between her and Painting Time. The way the symbols are painted on both ponies look as if they are of the same ilk. Who's to say someone at Hasbro wasn't toying with the idea of making an alt pose Sundance. The prototype photos are really neat and I enjoyed reading the excerpts. There's oddities and mystery ponies popping up occasionally and if employees had taken some of their work with them who knows what's still out there waiting to be discovered. Congrats Ember!! She's an awesome find!

[LadyGuinevere]

I mean how long did it take everyone analyzing painting time and her sisters before it was mostly decided they were legit and allowed into the gallery. And those painted seaside babies still aren't in the gallery.

From memory, I know I was pretty certain about the Painting Time et al fairly early on. I doubt I still have the original yahoogroup messages, but I don't remember there being a big split over whether they were real or not, though there was discussion. They wouldn't have appeared in the gallery until we had pictures donated though.

And the seaside babies aren't in there because apparently I have been remiss in getting hold of pictures! As they are currently in storage, it could be an indeterminate amount of time before we can.

It is definitely worth asking Kirk about his opinion of the pony. I remember watching him work at the 2008 fair.

[Tiggums6]

Q. Has anyone ever thought whether some of these ponies might have coem from showwrooms....I mean, I went to the Auckland division (Milton Bradley at the  time) and the lady in charge (Christine Warwick) showed  me the pony display then pulled a few out for me to take home. Now, NZ is a looong way away from anywhere that makes them so I *only* came home with a TAF Sundance & Megan (ironic, that) and princess something or other  (Sapphire???) , but I think it would be very feasible for that to have happened to other kids with other ponies like we have been discussing...

[princessluna11706]

I also wanted to add that I asked him about the FT Baby Sundance that was in the commercial and pamphlets- she obviously existed, was most likely hand painted and ... she was trashed when the idea was scrapped.  I'm going to send him pictures and ask him if he knows if there was ever plans for a CP Sundance.

[Lady Starflower]

That's so sad that those prototypes were just thrown out. But I guess who could have known back then that MLP would become such a huge collector's item.

[pinkkittywinks]

Princessluna11706 thank you for sharing all of this information

I am delighted to learn some of the correct terminology as well such as "pilot skin" I can now correctly label some of the ponies in the nirvana gallery

Ember1 I popped the head of Stardancer (she is the only HK pony I have in my heard that is in that pose) and she has the same number on her head neck plug. I couldn't see any number on her body though.

ETA a picture of her neck (please excuse the rust stains, she is clean!)

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Love pkw xxx

[princessluna11706]

That's so sad that those prototypes were just thrown out. But I guess who could have known back then that MLP would become such a huge collector's item.

Exactly :/ Luckily Kirk was one of the few that saved things from being thrown out.  Kirk's niece is the proud owner of that splayed leg Seashell   Many of the things pictured were rescued by him, and he kindly even gave some back to Hasbro to keep as pieces of pony history (that he can borrow from them for fairs and such.  I can't wait to work with him again next con!)

PKW,   You're very welcome. I'm so glad that I am able to help.  Ponies have always been a passion of mine and this, to me, is what it is all about.  Being there for each other as a community, learning new things, and helping each other.  He also explained to me "pilot skin", being the first test skin (ponies started large then shrunk and shrunk as molds were made from molds until the final desired size was achieved) , and "master skin" (label that is seen for the Seashell skin) as being the final mass produced skins.  The skins were the ponies themselves being removed from molds for test products as pictured, before they were rooted and painted.

I have that video I took of him explaining the pony process from idea to mold to final product, I'd like to get that uploaded someday to share with the community.  I have to ask DebonaireThundercloud (he worked with us as well) if he can somehow edit it and put it online.

[Lady Starflower]

That would be a very interesting video thanks for all the info.

[princessluna11706]

That would be a very interesting video thanks for all the info.

You're very welcome! It just needs to be edited and uploaded-will get on DebonaireThundercloud's case!  BTW you're going to the fair right?  The video is on my phone (taking up space gah lol) I can show it there

[Lady Starflower]

Oh awesome!!! Ya I'll be there. I have a booth I'm sharing with Dainty

[Mermaid]

I'm just gonna throw my two cents in.

I think she was created for a catalogue but was never used. I say this because if you look at the g1 toy fair catalogue pictures, the "prototype" ponies photographed usually gave the same "hand painted" more detailed look (dark eyeliner, brighter eyes, bright blush ect) this is probably so they photographer better.

The ponies also look a little more glossy in the photographs just like your painting time, and the baby explorer that's ceramic whose also hand painted. There's also a commercial with a baby moondancer on a rocker who is also clearly ceramic and hand painted. I believe the hand painted prototypes was hasbros go to for most of their promotional art. This would explain the glossiness of the ponies in most of the photographs. I don't think this method was used for the inserts though as those ponies usually look straight out if the box (you can tell by they way some of their hair sits ((ig baby sweetcakes and sugar cakes hair in the insert looks fresh out of the box)))

 but apart from that, the main thing which makes me think this is her length of her mane and tail. The ponies photographed in the toy fair catalogues usually have longer thicker looking manes and tails than their store bought counterparts. Take a look at the mlp wiki toy fair catalogue pictures for mommy apple delight, the secret surprise ponies, and the rockin beats for example! Even the cp pose ponies have similar length manes and forelocks as your sundance in the photos. So my guess was she was created for a promo image, but was later scrapped in favor of a new pose!

She is lovely ember! Keep her!

[palaisdejouets]

I've been following this thread since it started and it's been a fascinating read, and, for the very little it is worth...

I BELIEVE!

[daffodil101]

Princessluna11706 thank you for sharing all of this information

I am delighted to learn some of the correct terminology as well such as "pilot skin" I can now correctly label some of the ponies in the nirvana gallery

Ember1 I popped the head of Stardancer (she is the only HK pony I have in my heard that is in that pose) and she has the same number on her head neck plug. I couldn't see any number on her body though.

ETA a picture of her neck (please excuse the rust stains, she is clean!)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Love pkw xxx

Hm.  Do you think this indicates that the number stamp is unrelated to a pony being a prototype, but is just that particular mould?


Going back to points made many pages ago, about the year of release and the needlessness of making a Sundance prototype after the shy pose was already approved--  can I posit a scenario?


There's no reason to assume that the concept for each pony character was made in the same sequence they were produced and released. 

I imagine that Sundance might have been conceived of, perhaps years before her release.  The idea of having a human girl visit the pony world surely would have occurred quite early on- i mean the little-girl dream of riding and having adventures with her favourite ponies is pretty fundamental to the idea of MLP.  I can't imagine MLP without a doll character turning up somewhere and being a central character of the franchise.  And obviously at some stage it was decided they wanted one special pony to pair with the doll.  They were keeping an eye out for that special pony character.


I see no reason why proto-Sundance couldn't have been designed very early on-- even around the time of the first collector ponies set-- and the design been put aside to be thought more about or used later, either specifically to go with Megan or just in general. 

A lot of the proto-type figures posted in this thread have been plain white models without even eyes; if I was making the first ever set of ponies, had just got the size and pose right, I'd make them all in white and have a designer paint them to get the colours right rather than mess around with colouring the plastic.  There might have been similar protos for the original 6 collector ponies that were painted (like your Painting Time) over a white base.

Sundance was white anyway so obviously didn't need to be painted.  My theory is, that she was picked out of a bunch of potential characters (who knows how many rejected designs there were for various sets, at whatever stage of design?) and reserved for a later set.  Basically, I think this is Grandma Sundance.

I'm also convinced it's not a custom based on a birthflower.  The hair is a big factor; the plastic tie on the tail that matches Painting Time really confirms her authenticity to my mind.  It's just too big a coincidence that a customiser would use exactly the same tie as was used in a prototype.  Even if, by some fluke, a customiser used a zip tie rather than a washer, piece of string etc, it would be a different brand, be bigger or smaller, cut a different length, have extra rubber bands or something...  (Don't forget factory items are usually bought in bulk-- it's possible you couldn't even buy individual plastic ties in the same style.)  I think it's very compelling evidence of her authenticity.


This is another unsubstantiated musing, but I imagine customising was not such a big thing in the early days as it is now.  I only even became aware you can change a pony or doll's hair within the last couple of years.  If the pony's earliest known history was 1997, we're talking days before the internet.  There wasn't a big shared knowledge base available to draw on. 

-- I mean, we've all seen a dreadful botched custom covered in thick gloppy paint, but a real, convincing custom?  With hair that just so happens to match the factory weaving exactly?  Not common knowledge!  There's no way anyone but an insider could have customised that pony.  Which is basically to say, at the very worst, she was a custom done by a Hasbro designer or factory worker.  Which, again, doesn't make sense, because she went on to become a real pony release.

For whatever it's worth, I'm convinced that Sundance is the real deal