The Walking Dead S5 Discussion - Spoilers

[Nekoi]

Two:Gareth's speech about not wanting to eat people was meant to show that it was something they had been forced to do in order to live. His people were backed into a corner and they were either going to die or they were going to have to be willing to do anything in order to survive. They don't enjoy eating people, at least Gareth doesn't, but he likes living more.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree here. I'll put it in spoiler tags though.

Spoiler

I know that the show is trying to get me to buy that they have been forced into a corner and all of that, it's poorly executed to be completely honest with you. But, I can stretch my believes and for sake of argument believe that they honestly think that this is what they have to do to be able to survive.

But this: "They don't enjoy eating people, at least Gareth doesn't, but he likes living more. " - I'm assuming with the help of IMDB that we're talking about they guy sitting in front of Bob saying "mm you taste good" - because that right there is where this whole argument falls to pieces.

Had they simply whacked Bob over to head, killed him, chopped off his leg and cooked it - then, I could have continued to stretch my beliefs to "this is what they think they need to do in order to survive".

However, they are keeping Bob alive, eating and going "mm you taste good" in front of him. This is psychotic behavior, and obviously yes he enjoys eating Bob. And torturing him.

If this were to happen in real life, then yes, worse come worse, people will probably start eating people, but not in the fashion stated above. Unless we are of course discussing very disturbed people, and they exist even today in all shapes and forms.

But the show can't get me to buy that Gareth in any way is a good guy, who's pushed into a corner. I will buy that he's been pushed so far that he's broken now, and when I write broken I mean turned psychopath.

I see your point, but I don't think that's what the show conveyed. The show, to me, conveyed torture rather than survival.

So if the show wants to convey what you wrote I think they need to shape up

[True]

Three: Gabriel is not who you think he is and I can tell you all now that your theories about him are wrong, dead wrong.

We haven't all read the comics up to this point, its still fun to theorize with each other.
Not only that, we've all witnessed how in some cases the comic version is totally disregarded despite being followed very closely in areas leading up to some events. The very fate and existence of Sophia and Carol for example, not to mention their father/husband Ed.

All I'm saying is, lets try and keep the topic SHOW related. As that's what I made this thread for. Tying in the comic and finding similarity's is fine, but maybe we should avoid spoiling too many comic events before they happen, or having a "definite" say on any one event. xD

[Nekoi]

I haven't read the comic at all, so I agree with True...
I'm completely lost when it comes to the comic book parts 

[Midnight_Dream]

Two:Gareth's speech about not wanting to eat people was meant to show that it was something they had been forced to do in order to live. His people were backed into a corner and they were either going to die or they were going to have to be willing to do anything in order to survive. They don't enjoy eating people, at least Gareth doesn't, but he likes living more.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree here. I'll put it in spoiler tags though.

Spoiler

I know that the show is trying to get me to buy that they have been forced into a corner and all of that, it's poorly executed to be completely honest with you. But, I can stretch my believes and for sake of argument believe that they honestly think that this is what they have to do to be able to survive.

But this: "They don't enjoy eating people, at least Gareth doesn't, but he likes living more. " - I'm assuming with the help of IMDB that we're talking about they guy sitting in front of Bob saying "mm you taste good" - because that right there is where this whole argument falls to pieces.

Had they simply whacked Bob over to head, killed him, chopped off his leg and cooked it - then, I could have continued to stretch my beliefs to "this is what they think they need to do in order to survive".

However, they are keeping Bob alive, eating and going "mm you taste good" in front of him. This is psychotic behavior, and obviously yes he enjoys eating Bob. And torturing him.

If this were to happen in real life, then yes, worse come worse, people will probably start eating people, but not in the fashion stated above. Unless we are of course discussing very disturbed people, and they exist even today in all shapes and forms.

But the show can't get me to buy that Gareth in any way is a good guy, who's pushed into a corner. I will buy that he's been pushed so far that he's broken now, and when I write broken I mean turned psychopath.

I see your point, but I don't think that's what the show conveyed. The show, to me, conveyed torture rather than survival.

So if the show wants to convey what you wrote I think they need to shape up

Spoiler

Yes, that is the guy I am talking about. They have only mentioned his name a few times on the show and I only know it because a Youtuber I watch says it a lot, so it has been pounded into my head otherwise I would be in the same boat as you and just call him that attractive guy.

The reason they are keeping Bob alive rather than just outright killing him at once makes sense actually. Back in Terminus they had a way to preserve the bodies so they could kill them at once, hence the meat hooks and I assume they had a generator for refrigeration, but I could be wrong. There they treated people sort of like we do cattle and they were able to avoid the whole breaking of a person's mind while they ate them; in a VERY odd way it was humane. However, now that they are out on the road they have no way to preserve the meat and the only way to keep it "good" is to keep their victim alive and slowly remove parts. They are not keeping him alive to torture him...well, hmm....that might be where the comics and the show blur for me because in the comics there was no Terminus and the people Gareth and his group were based off were always on the road. (Sorry for bringing in the comics again, but I kind of have to in order to explain myself here) So I can't say for sure that Gareth isn't keeping Bob alive as a form of torture, but I don't think so and I am pretty sure that it is because there is no other way to keep the meat fresh.

I am not AT ALL trying to tell you that Gareth is a good guy, he eats people for crying out loud, but I what I am saying is that he is not this wholly evil guy that is just doing this because it is fun. Gareth...has been through a lot when the world went down the crapper. He had started a safe haven and a group of thugs came in, captured his people, raped the women and children and just slaughtered pretty much everyone (this was all hinted at in the first episode just in case you might have missed it). He had to sit back and watch as his mother was taken repeatedly to be beaten and raped by these people and it is no wonder that after a while he would start to lose his mind a bit. They had to get out from the grasp of these thugs and that ended up being by eating people, which is a thought process I don't think he entered into lightly. I don't know how his group got out of the train car we saw them in in the first episode flashbacks, but I assume it is a bit similar to how Rick's group were planning to get out.

When Gareth tells Bob that he tastes good...well, obviously Gareth is not right in the head anymore and you can just take that as something a person who has or is losing their mind would say. I never claimed that Gareth was sane, no one that decides to eat people even when backed into a corner is and there have been studies that show cannibalism does tend to mess with your mind in bad ways. There is some sanity left in him, I can see it in the way he talks sometimes, but not very much. And now that I think about it more I think when he says that they don't enjoy eating people, at least for himself, I think now he is just trying to convince himself that he doesn't enjoy it. For however long they have been doing this I think some part of him might have come to enjoy it, but he doesn't want to admit that he has.

The show is conveying this whole thing perfectly honestly. Eating a person is going to be part torture, there is no getting around that even if there hadn't been a speech at all. What the show wants you to see from Gareth's words is that the choice to eat people was one they needed to make in order to survive and the choice to keep Bob alive and slowly kill him rather than killing him quickly like they had intended to do back at Terminus(remember the big metal thing they were kneeling in front of?) was something they hadn't wanted to do either. They part chose to keep Bob alive and remove his parts over time because, like I said, there is no way to preserve the meat out on the road and as part revenge for Bob's people destroying Terminus. If this happened in real life there would be this giant grey area for methods in which people would use in order to survive, nothing would be as clear cut as it is now and the show is portraying that perfectly.

[Nekoi]

Spoiler

Yes, that is the guy I am talking about. They have only mentioned his name a few times on the show and I only know it because a Youtuber I watch says it a lot, so it has been pounded into my head otherwise I would be in the same boat as you and just call him that attractive guy.

The reason they are keeping Bob alive rather than just outright killing him at once makes sense actually. Back in Terminus they had a way to preserve the bodies so they could kill them at once, hence the meat hooks and I assume they had a generator for refrigeration, but I could be wrong. There they treated people sort of like we do cattle and they were able to avoid the whole breaking of a person's mind while they ate them; in a VERY odd way it was humane. However, now that they are out on the road they have no way to preserve the meat and the only way to keep it "good" is to keep their victim alive and slowly remove parts. They are not keeping him alive to torture him...well, hmm....that might be where the comics and the show blur for me because in the comics there was no Terminus and the people Gareth and his group were based off were always on the road. (Sorry for bringing in the comics again, but I kind of have to in order to explain myself here) So I can't say for sure that Gareth isn't keeping Bob alive as a form of torture, but I don't think so and I am pretty sure that it is because there is no other way to keep the meat fresh.

I am not AT ALL trying to tell you that Gareth is a good guy, he eats people for crying out loud, but I what I am saying is that he is not this wholly evil guy that is just doing this because it is fun. Gareth...has been through a lot when the world went down the crapper. He had started a safe haven and a group of thugs came in, captured his people, raped the women and children and just slaughtered pretty much everyone (this was all hinted at in the first episode just in case you might have missed it). He had to sit back and watch as his mother was taken repeatedly to be beaten and raped by these people and it is no wonder that after a while he would start to lose his mind a bit. They had to get out from the grasp of these thugs and that ended up being by eating people, which is a thought process I don't think he entered into lightly. I don't know how his group got out of the train car we saw them in in the first episode flashbacks, but I assume it is a bit similar to how Rick's group were planning to get out.

When Gareth tells Bob that he tastes good...well, obviously Gareth is not right in the head anymore and you can just take that as something a person who has or is losing their mind would say. I never claimed that Gareth was sane, no one that decides to eat people even when backed into a corner is and there have been studies that show cannibalism does tend to mess with your mind in bad ways. There is some sanity left in him, I can see it in the way he talks sometimes, but not very much. And now that I think about it more I think when he says that they don't enjoy eating people, at least for himself, I think now he is just trying to convince himself that he doesn't enjoy it. For however long they have been doing this I think some part of him might have come to enjoy it, but he doesn't want to admit that he has.

The show is conveying this whole thing perfectly honestly. Eating a person is going to be part torture, there is no getting around that even if there hadn't been a speech at all. What the show wants you to see from Gareth's words is that the choice to eat people was one they needed to make in order to survive and the choice to keep Bob alive and slowly kill him rather than killing him quickly like they had intended to do back at Terminus(remember the big metal thing they were kneeling in front of?) was something they hadn't wanted to do either. They part chose to keep Bob alive and remove his parts over time because, like I said, there is no way to preserve the meat out on the road and as part revenge for Bob's people destroying Terminus. If this happened in real life there would be this giant grey area for methods in which people would use in order to survive, nothing would be as clear cut as it is now and the show is portraying that perfectly.

Spoiler

Haha thank goodness, I was afraid that my memories of the end of the fourth season were really bad or that I was otherwise occupied in the first episode of the 5th - but now I'll remember that his name is Gareth :p (and he is sort of cute, damnit).

I realize I was unclear, I get the... freshness part, holy this is a weird topic to have haha But to me, it felt like they were taunting Bob. I see your point about how they treated humans at Terminus, like cattle, and I can absolutely agree that what they did at Terminus is to be considered as humane. And I get that Gareth and the rest of Terminus went through something absolutely horrendous, but right now as a viewer I feel a little confused.

I admit my very first post was written in a bit of... shock, and I reacted badly to the whole thing, I'm not exaggerating when I say I very nearly threw up. For me, it would have been easier to handle if a) he'd been kept away from the group more, and b) that they hadn't eaten his leg right in front of him with the "mm" part. That's what I meant with torture, rather then only pure necessity. But you bring up a good point that it might very well be in part to punish him for the attack on Terminus.

Well, even I'm not fully happy with the show right now, it obviously got a reaction out off me and I keep watching 

But I honestly hope that season 5 won't be all about it cannibalism.

[True]

Spoiler

Yes, that is the guy I am talking about. They have only mentioned his name a few times on the show and I only know it because a Youtuber I watch says it a lot, so it has been pounded into my head otherwise I would be in the same boat as you and just call him that attractive guy.

The reason they are keeping Bob alive rather than just outright killing him at once makes sense actually. Back in Terminus they had a way to preserve the bodies so they could kill them at once, hence the meat hooks and I assume they had a generator for refrigeration, but I could be wrong. There they treated people sort of like we do cattle and they were able to avoid the whole breaking of a person's mind while they ate them; in a VERY odd way it was humane. However, now that they are out on the road they have no way to preserve the meat and the only way to keep it "good" is to keep their victim alive and slowly remove parts. They are not keeping him alive to torture him...well, hmm....that might be where the comics and the show blur for me because in the comics there was no Terminus and the people Gareth and his group were based off were always on the road. (Sorry for bringing in the comics again, but I kind of have to in order to explain myself here) So I can't say for sure that Gareth isn't keeping Bob alive as a form of torture, but I don't think so and I am pretty sure that it is because there is no other way to keep the meat fresh.

I am not AT ALL trying to tell you that Gareth is a good guy, he eats people for crying out loud, but I what I am saying is that he is not this wholly evil guy that is just doing this because it is fun. Gareth...has been through a lot when the world went down the crapper. He had started a safe haven and a group of thugs came in, captured his people, raped the women and children and just slaughtered pretty much everyone (this was all hinted at in the first episode just in case you might have missed it). He had to sit back and watch as his mother was taken repeatedly to be beaten and raped by these people and it is no wonder that after a while he would start to lose his mind a bit. They had to get out from the grasp of these thugs and that ended up being by eating people, which is a thought process I don't think he entered into lightly. I don't know how his group got out of the train car we saw them in in the first episode flashbacks, but I assume it is a bit similar to how Rick's group were planning to get out.

When Gareth tells Bob that he tastes good...well, obviously Gareth is not right in the head anymore and you can just take that as something a person who has or is losing their mind would say. I never claimed that Gareth was sane, no one that decides to eat people even when backed into a corner is and there have been studies that show cannibalism does tend to mess with your mind in bad ways. There is some sanity left in him, I can see it in the way he talks sometimes, but not very much. And now that I think about it more I think when he says that they don't enjoy eating people, at least for himself, I think now he is just trying to convince himself that he doesn't enjoy it. For however long they have been doing this I think some part of him might have come to enjoy it, but he doesn't want to admit that he has.

The show is conveying this whole thing perfectly honestly. Eating a person is going to be part torture, there is no getting around that even if there hadn't been a speech at all. What the show wants you to see from Gareth's words is that the choice to eat people was one they needed to make in order to survive and the choice to keep Bob alive and slowly kill him rather than killing him quickly like they had intended to do back at Terminus(remember the big metal thing they were kneeling in front of?) was something they hadn't wanted to do either. They part chose to keep Bob alive and remove his parts over time because, like I said, there is no way to preserve the meat out on the road and as part revenge for Bob's people destroying Terminus. If this happened in real life there would be this giant grey area for methods in which people would use in order to survive, nothing would be as clear cut as it is now and the show is portraying that perfectly.

Spoiler

Haha thank goodness, I was afraid that my memories of the end of the fourth season were really bad or that I was otherwise occupied in the first episode of the 5th - but now I'll remember that his name is Gareth :p (and he is sort of cute, damnit).

I realize I was unclear, I get the... freshness part, holy this is a weird topic to have haha But to me, it felt like they were taunting Bob. I see your point about how they treated humans at Terminus, like cattle, and I can absolutely agree that what they did at Terminus is to be considered as humane. And I get that Gareth and the rest of Terminus went through something absolutely horrendous, but right now as a viewer I feel a little confused.

I admit my very first post was written in a bit of... shock, and I reacted badly to the whole thing, I'm not exaggerating when I say I very nearly threw up. For me, it would have been easier to handle if a) he'd been kept away from the group more, and b) that they hadn't eaten his leg right in front of him with the "mm" part. That's what I meant with torture, rather then only pure necessity. But you bring up a good point that it might very well be in part to punish him for the attack on Terminus.

Well, even I'm not fully happy with the show right now, it obviously got a reaction out off me and I keep watching 

But I honestly hope that season 5 won't be all about it cannibalism.

I have a feeling this will have to be delt with sooner rather then later, but I agree. I hope its not a repeat of season 4, just different group and slightly different motivation.

[Midnight_Dream]

People complain so much about season four that I finally have to ask, what do you people want from this show? If that sounded rude just know that there is no real polite way to put it.

[hathorcat]

Spoiler

Yes, that is the guy I am talking about. They have only mentioned his name a few times on the show and I only know it because a Youtuber I watch says it a lot, so it has been pounded into my head otherwise I would be in the same boat as you and just call him that attractive guy.

The reason they are keeping Bob alive rather than just outright killing him at once makes sense actually. Back in Terminus they had a way to preserve the bodies so they could kill them at once, hence the meat hooks and I assume they had a generator for refrigeration, but I could be wrong. There they treated people sort of like we do cattle and they were able to avoid the whole breaking of a person's mind while they ate them; in a VERY odd way it was humane. However, now that they are out on the road they have no way to preserve the meat and the only way to keep it "good" is to keep their victim alive and slowly remove parts. They are not keeping him alive to torture him...well, hmm....that might be where the comics and the show blur for me because in the comics there was no Terminus and the people Gareth and his group were based off were always on the road. (Sorry for bringing in the comics again, but I kind of have to in order to explain myself here) So I can't say for sure that Gareth isn't keeping Bob alive as a form of torture, but I don't think so and I am pretty sure that it is because there is no other way to keep the meat fresh.

I am not AT ALL trying to tell you that Gareth is a good guy, he eats people for crying out loud, but I what I am saying is that he is not this wholly evil guy that is just doing this because it is fun. Gareth...has been through a lot when the world went down the crapper. He had started a safe haven and a group of thugs came in, captured his people, raped the women and children and just slaughtered pretty much everyone (this was all hinted at in the first episode just in case you might have missed it). He had to sit back and watch as his mother was taken repeatedly to be beaten and raped by these people and it is no wonder that after a while he would start to lose his mind a bit. They had to get out from the grasp of these thugs and that ended up being by eating people, which is a thought process I don't think he entered into lightly. I don't know how his group got out of the train car we saw them in in the first episode flashbacks, but I assume it is a bit similar to how Rick's group were planning to get out.

When Gareth tells Bob that he tastes good...well, obviously Gareth is not right in the head anymore and you can just take that as something a person who has or is losing their mind would say. I never claimed that Gareth was sane, no one that decides to eat people even when backed into a corner is and there have been studies that show cannibalism does tend to mess with your mind in bad ways. There is some sanity left in him, I can see it in the way he talks sometimes, but not very much. And now that I think about it more I think when he says that they don't enjoy eating people, at least for himself, I think now he is just trying to convince himself that he doesn't enjoy it. For however long they have been doing this I think some part of him might have come to enjoy it, but he doesn't want to admit that he has.

The show is conveying this whole thing perfectly honestly. Eating a person is going to be part torture, there is no getting around that even if there hadn't been a speech at all. What the show wants you to see from Gareth's words is that the choice to eat people was one they needed to make in order to survive and the choice to keep Bob alive and slowly kill him rather than killing him quickly like they had intended to do back at Terminus(remember the big metal thing they were kneeling in front of?) was something they hadn't wanted to do either. They part chose to keep Bob alive and remove his parts over time because, like I said, there is no way to preserve the meat out on the road and as part revenge for Bob's people destroying Terminus. If this happened in real life there would be this giant grey area for methods in which people would use in order to survive, nothing would be as clear cut as it is now and the show is portraying that perfectly.

Spoiler

Haha thank goodness, I was afraid that my memories of the end of the fourth season were really bad or that I was otherwise occupied in the first episode of the 5th - but now I'll remember that his name is Gareth :p (and he is sort of cute, damnit).

I realize I was unclear, I get the... freshness part, holy this is a weird topic to have haha But to me, it felt like they were taunting Bob. I see your point about how they treated humans at Terminus, like cattle, and I can absolutely agree that what they did at Terminus is to be considered as humane. And I get that Gareth and the rest of Terminus went through something absolutely horrendous, but right now as a viewer I feel a little confused.

I admit my very first post was written in a bit of... shock, and I reacted badly to the whole thing, I'm not exaggerating when I say I very nearly threw up. For me, it would have been easier to handle if a) he'd been kept away from the group more, and b) that they hadn't eaten his leg right in front of him with the "mm" part. That's what I meant with torture, rather then only pure necessity. But you bring up a good point that it might very well be in part to punish him for the attack on Terminus.

Well, even I'm not fully happy with the show right now, it obviously got a reaction out off me and I keep watching 

But I honestly hope that season 5 won't be all about it cannibalism.

I get that reaction completely. Dont get me wrong, it was inevitable in the show and perhaps in reality it would be completely inevitable. And yup in a show about zombies complaining about people being eaten seems weirdly contradictory.

I actually think its a credit to the show that even after everything we have seen and everywhere the show has taken us, something as simple as that last scene can give me goosebumps and completely creep me out.

[True]

The only reason 4 bothered me, was because it was hard to follow. with everyone branching off and trying to find each other again. and it also felt like the season flew by xD.

I dont totally dislike it though, I understand the need for what and how they did it. i just prefer the big group lol.

I was thinking earlier about what i said, about not wanting another war. and I realized... well I guess if that wasnt the case they would be in a cured world, reestablishing their lives and we would no longer have a show xD.

[Nekoi]

hathorcat - I agree, and that's why I appreciate the show so much still, if it wasn't able to creep me out I'd most likely turn to a different show.
But there's a difference in zombies eating people and people... eating people... haha it makes no sense, I know!

Midnight_Dream - I agree with True, it was that last part of the season that was hard to follow. Also the episodes with the Governor weren't linear and I don't personally think that the show creators made it easy to follow. Nonlinear can be great if dealt with accordingly.

Personally I don't think a war between groups is necessary, remember in... I don't remember which season, the first? When we were introduced to a scientist and saw how the brain died on the screen and then reanimated? I want more of the sciencey stuff - call me a geek and I may be alone in this haha

[Midnight_Dream]

There won't be more sciencey stuff sadly because the show isn't about finding a cure. Part of me wishes they would because I want everything to be okay for these people, but that isn't the focus of the comics either so I am not let down by it. I don't even think when the show ends it will be with them finding a cure, which I don't mind really.

Honestly, I didn't have a hard time following the end of season four, but that might just be me. They were all close to the same train tracks, so I just took it as them being that much closer to finding one another and they were all heading to Terminus.

I liked the war between groups personally and I like focusing on other groups just because I am curious about seeing how other people live. *Shrug* Again, just me. I do know, from what Kirkman has said, that there will not be another war or evil guy like the Governor for a while, so don't worry about Gareth. There will be minor villains of course, but no one like the Governor.

I can't wait for the spin-off show either!

[Nekoi]

Well a girl can dream and hope

[SwordPony]

So how did everyone feel about last nights episode.

Spoiler

I loved how the whole termites group was put out to paster so to speak. I also wanna know who was with Daryl. I really hope that it's Beth and Carol.

[NoDivision]

That cliffhanger, my heart!

Also the preview for next week's episode... *flail*

[sunshine29102]

Things that made me happy about this episode ("Four Walls and a Roof")...

Spoiler

1.  Glad to see that Gareth and the Terminus plotline was put to an end quickly.  And the red handled machete Rick promised to use on him. 

2.  Also happy to see another nod to the graphic novel/comic with Bob being "tainted meat". 

3.  Michonne getting her sword back.  She's just so darn effective with that thing, and it's a much more stealthy weapon than a rifle (quieter, no ammo needed). 

4.  Also glad that I have no idea where this season is taking Rick and the group.  I mean, I've read the books and I know the show doesn't follow them precisely (which is why I love them both -- they are their own entities).  But, I really have no idea where they are headed.  Do they go to Washington? Do they get detoured? Etc...  For me, that makes it much more interesting to watch.

And some things I didn't really like about this episode...

Spoiler

1.  Maggie. Warning - my mini rant: 

I just... I don't know what to say.  How has this much time gone by and she's never once asked about her sister.  Beth was with Daryl, and now Daryl is with the group.  How has Maggie not even bothered to say, "My sister left with you.  What happened?"  Her whole search after the prison war was for Glenn, never her sister.  I feel like it could've been -- at the very least -- quickly addressed and dismissed, simply by saying something to the extent of Maggie acknowledging to Daryl that he left the prison with Beth, and how she is not with him now.  Then they could just drop it for a bit.  I sure am glad that Maggie isn't my sister. Geez!

2.  I don't like that part of the group decided to leave with Abraham and Co. I'm guessing they'll all be reunited again, but still...

3.  I hate that I have to wait til next Sunday to see what's happened to Beth.  She's not a character I ever cared about really, but I'm ready to find out what happened and move forward.

4.  I also hate that the next episode will be halfway to the Midseason Finale.  Boo!

What did everyone else think?