Observing Bronies in their Natural Habitat

[MJNSEIFER]

Okay, here is my direct response to Dragonflitter's post, I'm sorry that it took a while to do, and I hope that you will all be okay with my responses.  They will be as non-biased as possible. 

First and foremost, I will confess that I do view myself as a brony, though a lot of what the fandom has become I don't stand for so I understand where you are coming from in places, with that in mind onto the direct responses.

The head speaker was a little smug about this, she told us when she tried to set up the panel the con committee was doubtful and only gave her this little room. So as we got started she told us, "Well now you can see the brony fandom is obviously bigger than anyone thought it was going to be, so you guys should all tell the con committee next year we're going to need a bigger room."

(Personally I thought the reason was not because they doubted the brony popularity but because MLP really doesn't have a lot to do with fantasy or science fiction literature. But I kept that thought to myself.  )

I think you were probably right here, if it had been purely a My Little Pony thing they would have bothered to give them a better room, though she could have been joking slightly (I wasn't there, so I don't know).  That said, while I agree with you about MLP being out of place in a science fiction convention, I can sought of see how it would fit into fantasy; as a Final Fantasy fan, I noticed a lot of parallels to the FF series, and basically fantasy storylines in general during G4, and even earlier in G1.  Hey, even the fact that unicorns are used count, but other than that I agree with your view.

Now I don't think this count perfectly mirrors real life. There weren't a lot of young kids at the convention. Science fiction and fantasy lit was really big in the 80's really and these people have been coming to this convention since then. It was mostly an adult crowd there for the weekend, but some of the con-goers did bring their whole families so it wasn't like there were absolutely no kids running around.

But it's true I was surprised at the lack of guys at the panel! It's not like there were no men at this fantasy convention! Yeah there are a lot of female writers but attend a convention like this and you'll see it's still very much a 'man's world' in genre publishing these days.

This was again probably because it wasn't a brony only thing, or a pony only thing.  So regardless of whether the brony fandom has a higher or lower male ratio, it was probably because few of the regulars, or sci-fi fans in general cared about My Little Pony?  I don't know really, but that's the only explanation I can think of.

There was a little bit of dissing of the earlier gens going on. Specifically, all three panelists started talking about how awesome the new show is and how stupid the one from the 80's was. I immediately cut in with a really offended tone of voice and told them I had been collecting since the 80's and there was a lot of good things about the earlier generations, and they kinda let up after that. (I was probably kinda short with them because like I said it had been a long weekend and I was functioning on little sleep. I'm sorry if anyone was there and had to put up with the interruption.)

If I was there, I would have backed you up, even if I hated the previous generations, which of course I don't.  I really don't understand why there has to be so much hate on the previous generations, and it ruins it for the bronies like me, who don't hate them (I love them, trust me).  As I've said before, I don't care if anyone hates the previous generations, just like I don't care if people hate MLP in general, it's just there's no point to mentioning it.

Obviously I don't mean they shouldn't be allowed to express their opinion, but there should be a limit, as the entire room could have been fans of the 80s version for all they knew.  So yeah, I would have backed you up, and I hope that you don't think that all bronies are like this.

So they were pretty polite after that except for this one person in the audience who was like a grandmother type with white hair and she burst out into this rant about how horrible cartoons were in the 80's and especially hating on MLP and She-Ra and I don't understand what her issue was... Maybe she was a troll or something

She probably was, and you're saying she was of grandmother age?  I've seen eight year olds who are more mature than she sounds...  The fact that she said it after you admitted that you liked G1.  Trolling and/or attention seeking I think.

Some other interesting things that were discussed at the panel was the talk about how Rainbow Dash has become a symbol for people in the military (especially the air force) who don't quite fit in. They were saying how, if you thought high school had cliques, try being in the military! You can't be a nerd in the air force, you have to be "one of the guys." So it was very interesting that these people in the air force were secretly fans of Rainbow Dash and they were putting tiny little rainbow cutie mark patches on their flight suits or had like a blind bag of rainbow dash in the cockpit or something. They're doing these little tiny ways of showing their appreciation of the show. I liked that.

That sounds pretty cool

It should also be noted I was the only one at the panel who been interested in MLP before FiM came out. I asked around before it started if anyone else liked MLP before FiM came out, and no one responded.

If I had been there... you still would have been the only interested in MLP before FIM came out (unless the fact I watched Rescue at Midnight Castle as a child and was fascinated by it, but never got to watch MLP again until FIM counts), but I would have made the effort to talk to you, assuming you wouldn't mind, as I love all generations so much it feels like I have grown up with them (though nothing can replicate the true experience) in fact there are a lot of FIM episodes that make me feel like I grew up with them too, they just have a late 80s/early 90s charm to them for me, in fact so does G3 and that was 2000s era - I guess when shows a closer to ones you remember from a certain era, you feel like they are closer to that era?

Either way, I would have made the effort while you were asking, in fact someone actually thought I had grown up with G3 because I was so passionate about it (he hated it).  Either way, at least I could have shared my love of pre-FIM with you, if you'd have liked (I hope I don't sound weird and/or annoying with all this).

And some of the things they talked about I thought was silly... like how the panelists were going on and on about how this was an amazing, revolutionary show and how it's going to change all cartoons for the future, like it's some groundbreaking thing for entertainment... which I think is an exaggeration.

As much as I adore FIM, I do agree that this is an exaggeration.  Most of the things that make FIM so amazing were already in the previous generations (they were made by a fan of the previous generations, who included all the things she liked about them) which is another reason the pre-FIM hate is pointless.  The only thing that I would say is close to being "groundbreaking" about FIM and will "change cartoons for the future" is that it doesn't seem to panda to the usual format of children's shows these days, i.e. being really juvenile and childish, and actually have somewhat of a storyline, and character development, with relatable characters.  Not that there aren't other current children’s shows that do this, of course.  That's only thing really revolutionary about it.  I am thankful for that though, and still agree that it's exaggerating.


I hope you're okay with my responses and to anyone else sorry if I overlooked you, but this was more of a direct response to Dragonflitter because I owed her a reply.

[ThriftyPony]

It is easy for newer fans of MLP to be dismissive about older gens.. Sometimes, you have to have experienced it to feel the magic... Growing up in the 80s/90s was a great time for toys. My memories of MLP from those days are some of the best. The focus of kids cartoons wasn't so much on comedy as it is now, too, so I can see how it is hard for some Bronies to see why people like G1, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the insight!

[Dragonflitter]

Thanks for your responses, everyone! They've been very fun to read. And I hope no one was offended by my initial post. I hesitated in typing it up for a long time, because I didn't want to come off as snooty or dissing the people who classify themselves as bronies, but I did want to share about my experience at this convention. Mostly because it surprised me so much! (Also I thought it was so long no one would read through the whole thing )

Keep in mind that this was a sci fi/fantasy literature con, not an anime con or a general sci fi/fantasy convention. This is entirely a different group of people than the sort of folk you see at a pop culture convention. Most of these people had been attending this convention since the 80's. Not saying writers don't like anime or Star Trek or Doctor Who, but the general attendees of this con were writers who were there to network with other writers or attend panels about writing.

Let's just say this was a convention for the likes of George R.R. Martin and Steven King, not the person who wrote "Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell."

That's why the inclusion of a brony panel surprised me so much! I guess it's true that this cartoon is spreading its influence just about everywhere.

[claricesponies]

I have very little patience with con panel people. They think they're experts, but in actual fact they come across like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

LOL, I have thought this before too. Very Funny.

[MJNSEIFER]

Thanks for your responses, everyone! They've been very fun to read. And I hope no one was offended by my initial post. I hesitated in typing it up for a long time, because I didn't want to come off as snooty or dissing the people who classify themselves as bronies, but I did want to share about my experience at this convention. Mostly because it surprised me so much! (Also I thought it was so long no one would read through the whole thing )

You certainly didn't offend me, in fact I agreed with at certain points.  I in turn, hope I didn't offend you.

And I know the feeling about fearing your post is too long - hell, I even have an apology for my posts on my sig.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I have very little patience with con panel people. They think they're experts, but in actual fact they come across like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

LOL, I have thought this before too. Very Funny.

Where is the LIKE button???
 

The last time I went to a convention, we all had to get away from some 6 foot dude who was drunk off his rocker on LYSOL cleaner... AUGH.  He was harassing us about the swords we just bought... AUGH I don't even want to re-live that in my mind...  

Escape from Comic Book Guy... only to find our path obstructed by Foolish Dumb Henchman...  *facepalm*

[Zapper]

I'm sorry that I can't contribute to the thread other than...

Each of the Mane 6 is a facet of my personality. I think that *this* is why male Bronies especially talk about FiM as "amazing", "unprecedented", and all that - to us, it *is*. I've never fit in anywhere, myself. I'm a strange mix. I love tanks, and military jets, and horse cavalry. I knew I wanted to be a Marine at 5 years old, when the first "real" book I read was Dick Tregaskis' "Guadalcanal Diary". (Unfortunately, my poor health kept me out). I can talk Napoleon, World War 2, or modern wars, for hours. On the other hand, I played Barbie with my older sister, and I love fashions and cosmetics. I subscribe to Allure magazine and I'm the only man I know that watches "Yes to the Dress". Where do I fit in? I'm burned out on Football and Baseball, but I love watching Figure Skating and Gymnastics. And yes, I came out Bi last year. So where do I fit in? So far, only in Equestria.

...sounding like a creep. David, why are you such a perfect human being?
I'm done talking about the Brony ~phenomenon~ (because to me it's just a fandom), but your text really warmed my heart. If ponies help you that's really great!
I loved military jets since childhood, but of course it's easier for a girl to like "boy things", men still being pressured to avoid a connection to the feminine like the plague etc.

Where can I meet a Flutterguy like you IRL?

[DavidC]

  There doesn't seem to be many guys like me, based on the reactions I got wearing my Brony shirt around my buddies.

So far, I'm too girly for the guys and too military for the girls. 

I spend my time alone.

[Zapper]

There doesn't seem to be many guys like me, based on the reactions I got wearing my Brony shirt around my buddies.

So far, I'm too girly for the guys and too military for the girls. 

I spend my time alone.

That's so sad to hear. I'd love to hang with you just based on what you have written in this thread because you seem like a sensitive guy with many cool interests. Although, being German I'm pretty much fed up with warfare for obvious reasons. Especially WWII
Even though I don't have your exact same problems, I know how it feels like when people expect you to fit into a box. I'm bi, too

Before I derail this thread, you can always shoot me a PM if you need to talk!

[DavidC]

PM sent, Zapper. It's nice to meet you.

I just thought of something about the G1 hate: I've always liked horses myself, and as a boy I never saw the original MLP cartoon - it wasn't on in my area - but I've never had a problem with "girl's toys", I thought all toys were cool. Maybe the G1 hate from some Bronies is still because of it being more obviously for "girls"? I dunno. They need to shape up their minds, in any case. Being a Brony should be about inclusion, if it's about anything at all.

[MJNSEIFER]

PM sent, Zapper. It's nice to meet you.

I just thought of something about the G1 hate: I've always liked horses myself, and as a boy I never saw the original MLP cartoon - it wasn't on in my area - but I've never had a problem with "girl's toys", I thought all toys were cool. Maybe the G1 hate from some Bronies is still because of it being more obviously for "girls"? I dunno. They need to shape up their minds, in any case. Being a Brony should be about inclusion, if it's about anything at all.

I hope it's okay for me to answer.

I dunno really... A lot of the pre-FIM hate seems to be a case of "complaining about shows you don't watch", meaning that a lot of bronies (I at first thought it was just the male bronies, but it might not be - they seem to be the majority though, but I could be wrong) have never really sat down and watched pre-FIM, and have grown up thinking it was a lame and girly show (and have also grown up thinking "lame" and "girly" are synonymous) when in actual fact pre-FIM is no more girly, nor no less girly than FIM.

This is mostly my view though, as I'm someone who (aside from a time in my childhood which I'm now ashamed about, and it was mostly due to being spoon-fed these "facts") has never really seperated things as "for girls" and "for boys", and actually had to ask on this forum what actually makes My Little Pony a girl's thing other than "the company says so", and I was actually surprised by some of the answers, which just shows how little I care about genders.

Since becoming a brony, it's always been jarring seeing all the pre-FIM hate for various reasons, but since loving each and every generation, it looks even more jarring.

[Mainsail]

I honestly get kind of upset when I hear bronies hating on the previous generations, but I agree in them probably having to have "experienced the magic" in order to understand/like them. I'm just very thankful that I was able to experience it, even if I wasn't born in the 80s, I was there for the second generation on, and of course, when I discovered the G1s back in 2002, I quickly fell in love with them, and I will cherish the memories I have with all generations of MLP forever. I would love to see bronies lighten up to the previous generations. I mean, if it wasn't for them, FIM wouldn't even exist.

[DavidC]

Well said, you two. ^

If the G1 show had been on in my area, I would have watched it. I was, and still am, addicted to cartoons. In my area we had GI Joe, Thundercats, Jem, and Spiral Zone in the afternoons, and Bugs Bunny, Smurfs, and a Denver-produced clown show in the mornings. Good Times!

Was Smurfs for girls? And who cares? Jem was all kinds of awesome, and it takes place in the "Sunbow Universe" along with GI Joe, Transformers, and The Inhumanoids. Betcha knew that, though. I used to play with my Joes as if the younger ones were big fans of Jem or the Misfits. And I *really* wanted a Jem Doll, but 13 year old me couldn't afford her and was afraid to ask. I sure looked at the dolls every chance I got. *I have some now. *

Good entertainment should be for anyone that likes it. And I've never understood criticizing someone else's non-destructive hobbies.

[DancingPhoenix]

Very interesting! I have little patience with the close minded bronies who hate on the older gens, you certainly seemed to handle yourself much better lol

I will say though that what you said about the Air Force isn't entirely true. My boyfriend is in the Air Force and is a huge nerd (and very open about it) and no one gives him crap or shuns him. For example he really loves Totoro and so I gave him a cell phone charm thing of him and he wears it proudly (and has gotten compliments!) Granted it depends largely on where you are and who you are as a person, I'm sure at other places/bases the clique stuff is worse. Too bad I can't get my boyfriend into ponies too!