Do ponies and other girl's toys always get the short end of the stick?

[hathorcat]

On the copyright thing its not copyright its trademarks that matter. All the G1 merch we are seeing is licensed by Hasbro. And Hasbro are more than capable of trademarking Surprise or Firefly or other G1 names for MLP, nothing at all anywhere is stopping them; its that they dont want to not that they cant.

I dunno; I think many of them- "Surprise" especially- would be hard to get exclusive trademark to, because it's such a generic word and there are probably toys by other companies that use it in some fashion. They could probably release the character under some "tweaked" name though (like "Surprise, Surprise" or something, so we can all remember the Puppy Surprise song- which Hasbro also owns so it's okay.)

As to the celebratory releases, I am 100% on board that its frustrating and very very annoying. However, unfortunately a quick google and some research will tell you that the largest and most active number of toy collectors out there are in boys toy lines - Transformers, GI Joe, etc.

I dont think its a judgement so much against "boys toys" and "girls toys", I think its more that the lines with the biggest following get the most attention when collectors/celebratory releases are done.

I've always found MLP collectors to be the most active, personally, but that's just me. The thing is, even if adult collectors are a bigger market in boy lines (they're certainly more vocal) MLP has always been a comparatively cheap line to produce- whereas only two or at most three Transformer characters generally share a mold, and almost every Joe has at least one unique part (even if it's only the head) MLP can make dozens of characters with just a handful of unique molds. Even if they didn't want to invest in new G1ish molds (which are the most expensive part, though they probably still have the anniversary ones at least) it would cost relatively little to make a G4 set with G1 characters- it'd be a great way to celebrate the brand's past and present success.

It would not be any harder to get a trademark for "Surprise" than it would for "Cupcake". You can have trademarks with the same name in different sectors and in fact even in the same sector. Trademark is as much about how it is written/logo, etc as it is the name itself. Hasbro re released "Minty" and "Bluebelle" and "Butterscotch" and "Blossom"   all with trademarks in place. If they want to - they can and they dont need to jump through any extra hoops or add anything to a name to get it. 

I think when we are within a community its easy to think we are the biggest but the TF fandom is much larger than we will ever be. Yes MLP is bigger than many other toy collecting communities, perhaps one of the largest for a girls line outside many of the traditional doll collector communities but still smaller, less active and much less vocal than many boys lines. And yes MLP may perhaps be cheaper to produce. But to be honest you only have to look at the thread after thread here on the Arena of people complaining and pointing out issues with ponies due to manufacture or packaging. And as Galatica points out the poor selling that was the retros, which were cheaply made. We were asked how much we would spend on collectors items pre the 25th anniversary, the community answer said $5 a pony. We got $5 a pony quality and most people were relatively unhappy with that. So if Hasbro were to produce something which sold well they would have to produce something much more expensive and I to be honest doing that is not something I would be convinced they would do without a bigger fan base. Heck I would love that this was not the case...I desperately would love some kind of proper well made line [something along the lines of the new Jem products] but for some reason Hasbro thinks collector means sticking some spangles on a G4.

[Star Spark]

It would not be any harder to get a trademark for "Surprise" than it would for "Cupcake". You can have trademarks with the same name in different sectors and in fact even in the same sector. Trademark is as much about how it is written/logo, etc as it is the name itself. Hasbro re released "Minty" and "Bluebelle" and "Butterscotch" and "Blossom"   all with trademarks in place. If they want to - they can and they dont need to jump through any extra hoops or add anything to a name to get it.

They can get lucky with some, but there are several instances with Transformers and Joes where a character had to be renamed because they couldn't get a trademark- Hound and Ratchet had "Autobot" affixed to their names, Zap (one of the original ARAH Joes) is now "Tankblast", etc. I say this only because it was the reason given by Faust for the rejection of her original versions of the characters, and it makes sense given the history of similar brands.

I think when we are within a community its easy to think we are the biggest but the TF fandom is much larger than we will ever be. Yes MLP is bigger than many other toy collecting communities, perhaps one of the largest for a girls line outside many of the traditional doll collector communities but still smaller, less active and much less vocal than many boys lines. And yes MLP may perhaps be cheaper to produce. But to be honest you only have to look at the thread after thread here on the Arena of people complaining and pointing out issues with ponies due to manufacture or packaging. And as Galatica points out the poor selling that was the retros, which were cheaply made. We were asked how much we would spend on collectors items pre the 25th anniversary, the community answer said $5 a pony. We got $5 a pony quality and most people were relatively unhappy with that. So if Hasbro were to produce something which sold well they would have to produce something much more expensive and I to be honest doing that is not something I would be convinced they would do without a bigger fan base. Heck I would love that this was not the case...I desperately would love some kind of proper well made line [something along the lines of the new Jem products] but for some reason Hasbro thinks collector means sticking some spangles on a G4.

That's actually what I think they should do for a 30th anniversary collector's set- make a unicorn with Moondancer's colors and symbol, then throw some of that sparkly stuff on it, repeat for five or six more G1 characters and sell them as a set. They might have to waste a slot on Applejack (since retailers get antsy when no established character is present) but at least she'd also be sparkly.

ETA: As an addendum to the trademark issue, Hasbro also seems to shy away from squabbles over trademarks in general, especially if a word could potentially be ruled too generic to trademark if it goes to court. So while they might manage to trademark "Cupcake", it's possible that another company could challenge it and everyone could lose the ability to trademark the word (it just isn't in anyone's interest to do that.) I'm not trying to be pushy on the subject or anything, it's just something I've come across over the years, especially since I work on characters for my own projects and while they'd probably be protected as being part of a different category I try to make absolutely sure I'm not infringing on anyone's trademarked name.

[hathorcat]

I know you are not being pushy We all have our own experiences and backgrounds.

As mentioned in other threads so I wont bore people with it too much here, I still maintain that Faust was either fed those reasons as an excuse or misunderstood what she was told or it was a little blown out of proportion. Hasbro did not want G1 ponies because they had invested time and money in G3 characters - better to have Pinkie than Surprise and Rainbow than Firefly. If they had wanted to continue with this characters why not just make it "Firefly Dash" or "Pinkie Surprise"?

It is also about brand association - "Twilight Sparkle" associates more with a girls toy line and MLP than just plain "Twilight" and the same in TF by adding "Autobot" to the name. Its a bit simple but its an easy way to force the brand with little effort.

I have worked on product trademarks for the last decade for both products and product lines. If they wanted to do it they could do it and I have seen plenty of the names we have mentioned trademarked for other brands and in other sectors with very little effort - I think "Surprise" is trademarked a half dozen times. As I mentioned its not just about the word, as you will know its about the context, the design, the font everything to do with appearance that establishes you a trademark. When you need to defend or want to contest trademark all of these factors come into play.

[Firehooves]

Hasbro does own the copywright to everything and all things G1 character and show-wise, they bought the entire Sunbow Library and everything in it a few years back. And as for making toys, there are ways around the name issues- call them "Pony Firefly" or "Pony Surprise, etc. So yeah, I think the reson for the character changes in FiM was wanting to keep using the G3 names

[Star Spark]

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming off as overbearing. 

I see what you're saying- though if they just wanted to use the G3 names you'd think they'd have given Faust the courtesy of saying so to begin with rather than wasting her time.

The thing I've noticed with Hasbro is that they really prefer strong names as trademarks- they don't want it only in a particular font or style, but the name itself to be instantly recognizable (which everyone wants, really, but Hasbro really seems to go for this.) When they can't have that, they might be willing to append something to it if the character is well known- even if Ratchet is officially "Autobot Ratchet", everyone from fans of the original show and comic to people only familiar with the movies or current show knows he's Ratchet. "Surprise", even as "Pony Surprise" (which Hasbro might actually still have the trademark to from the Kenner doll) is only recognizable to older fans and is stuck with a silly "official" name on top of it- I can understand wanting to use "Pinkie Pie" or "Rainbow Dash" instead (they're strong trademarks that don't sound overly weird.) Again, though, if that was there intent to begin with they probably should have informed Lauren Faust that they wanted a lot of G3 retreads.

[Firehooves]

Oh no Star, I'm agreeing with you; they wanted stronger trademarks. But I was also contending that they also wanted to keep using what they had (Rainbow Dash, Rarity) because they already had those trademarks, and I was also stating they can use G1 and could bring anything they wanted from it back if they chose to. They do not choose to do so, for the reasons you stated.

[hathorcat]

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming off as overbearing. 

I see what you're saying- though if they just wanted to use the G3 names you'd think they'd have given Faust the courtesy of saying so to begin with rather than wasting her time.

The thing I've noticed with Hasbro is that they really prefer strong names as trademarks- they don't want it only in a particular font or style, but the name itself to be instantly recognizable (which everyone wants, really, but Hasbro really seems to go for this.) When they can't have that, they might be willing to append something to it if the character is well known- even if Ratchet is officially "Autobot Ratchet", everyone from fans of the original show and comic to people only familiar with the movies or current show knows he's Ratchet. "Surprise", even as "Pony Surprise" (which Hasbro might actually still have the trademark to from the Kenner doll) is only recognizable to older fans and is stuck with a silly "official" name on top of it- I can understand wanting to use "Pinkie Pie" or "Rainbow Dash" instead (they're strong trademarks that don't sound overly weird.) Again, though, if that was there intent to begin with they probably should have informed Lauren Faust that they wanted a lot of G3 retreads.

Yes This is exactly what I mean. There is more value and brand impact in "Pinkie Pie" than in "Surprise" - it feels more identifiable with MLP and with the image they are trying create.