Gender stereotypes

[InkyMilk]

Sarahlacewing - I did read somewhere recently that young men are more stastically likely to be the victim of violent attack like muggings that women. I dont have a reference for that though.  I have a boy and a girl and Im going to send them both to martial arts.

I have worked really hard to avoid gender stereotypes with my son and I think its worked - at nearly 8 he plays with MLP, Puppy in my Pocket , plays dolls with me and his sister. We have a pony and he is mad on riding despite it being a heavily girl dominated sport, but also plays with Dr Who stuff and lego.

My daughter I am struggling more with though - she is mad on dolls and pushchairs and handbags, hair bands etc, she wants to copy me in everything I do (including putting make up, which I wont let her do) and shes only 2. I find myself sitting down trying to convince her to play with construction toys like Duplo as I want her to be an engineer when she grows up!

I'm sorry, but this seems to prove the exact point I was trying to make a couple pages back. You've obviously given your daughter the opportunity to play with whatever toy she wants just like your son, and she is choosing to play with the more 'feminine toys'. I totally understand not wanting to give a 2 year old make-up of course, but why is it so terrible if she consistently chooses dress-up clothes and handbags over 'boy toys'? SHE is the one making the choice here. It's great you have such high aspirations for her when she grows up, but would you be disappointed if she wound up wanting to be a hair stylist? Or a florist? That you failed as a mother because she didn't choose something that wasn't 'typically feminine'?

Again, it seems that I'm really getting the vibe that while the new thing is to urge kids to play with toys typically associated with the opposite gender, it's somehow wrong if the child in question is primarily interested in toys geared toward their own gender. And that's really frustrating. Yes, we want to aim to let children know they CAN play with whatever they want and that it makes absolutely no difference on who they are as a person, but if a little girl only wants to play dress up or a little boy only wants to play superhero, why is that a problem? Why do we have to force them to play other things that may not even interest them because it's the thing to do to prove we're 'open-minded'?

[Rosencrantz]

Is true, pink stuff is great. Nothin' less valid about a girl deciding to be a total girly girl. All that's important is she's having fun.

[kuzronk]

I was thinking of making this thread a while ago but didn't end up doing it.

I find gender roles rather stupid myself and my sister bought a dora DVD for her son and it had a teach your girl to ride thing inside of it.

I used to be like ___ is for girls eww why do you like this but now I don't have a problem with things like ponies or babies.

My dad is kinda making fun of me for being a brony now which I find really wrong.

[Sarahlacewing]

If I can jump back in for a second I think there is so much toy separation now within the manufacturer. My momma was trying to buy some Legos or mega blocks or whatever and since both my sister and I have both gender children she wanted to geta variety pack so they could pick out what they wanted to play with. But everywhere she went it was like pink and girly or blue and manly. There wasn't a variety of blocks. She kept asking people for variety packs and they'd say oh well is it for a boy or a girl? She did finally find some but it was so annoying. And clothing wise too she likes yellows, tans, green, etc but so many baby things are pink or blue. I dunno maybe it was better back when you didn't know what you were having. Lol

[fingerpaints]

I unfortunately saw the opposite of this at work.the other day, one of the children was having a birthday on the weekend, so his mum brought in bubble wands for everyone in pink, purple, green and blue. The first little fella to go home wanted a pink one to which his mum screwed up her face and said "are you sure? Thats a girls colour" I politely told her at his age the pink bubble wand shouldn't be an issue, she sadly replied "I don't think dad will be too happy". Seriously the kid is like 2 1/2.

[GothMummy]

I just wishmore  toys were non gender specific, as most were in the 70s and early 80s when I was little.

Of course all that matters to me in the end is that my children are happy in their career choices. But I really feel that gender stereotyping starts so early on and they get it from their peers, from television, from pre-school and school that I have to provide an alternative view point.

I dont deny her the girly stuff. I have an older son so theres a variety of toys. I just think playing along strict gender lines really limits both boys and girls opportunities. I also heard someone in an interview saying that there was a dearth of girls going into science and one of the reasons was that they were not encouraged from an early age to play with construction toys etc.

  But the other day she threw her dinner on the floor because i gave it to her on a blue plate, not a pink plate and I think thats ridiculous behavior, even for a 2 year old!! 

[fingerpaints]

Wow they actually push it at pre school in the UK? That is sad

Here in Australia there is a big push for "gender neutral" play, and we aren't even supposed to use gender orientated words such as boy, girl, her, him, his or hers unless it's explaining something not directed at a child. In saying that, most of the gender stereotypes are coming from adults. Kids don't care, they may like something more than something else, but it shouldn't be because it's a boys / girls thing.

The biggest problem I have seen is parents, mainly father's with their sons. They seem to think because little johnny likes dressing up like a princess and playing tea parties he's going to be gay (why that's a problem I don't even know) but at a young age, they don't care and are often only starting to recognise there are differences between boys and girls.

I think that adults do need to start educating children that it's ok to play with what we want, and grow up to be who we want to be.

Until society deems it normal, it's never going to be easy.

[Tap Dancer]

My daughter I am struggling more with though - she is mad on dolls and pushchairs and handbags, hair bands etc, she wants to copy me in everything I do (including putting make up, which I wont let her do) and shes only 2. I find myself sitting down trying to convince her to play with construction toys like Duplo as I want her to be an engineer when she grows up!

I don't understand; what's the struggle? Maybe she wants to be a girly-girl. What if she doesn't want to be an engineer? She might want to be a ballerina.

[cuddlebuggy]

One of my favorite albums as a kid was "Free to be You and Me" by Marlo Thomas and friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_to_Be..._You_and_Me
It's a collection of songs and stories that all have to do with self esteem and gender roles. One of my favorite songs is Alan Alda singing "William wants a doll" about a boy who wants a doll but everyone teases him and tries to buy him boy appropriate toys. Then Grandma comes to visit and buys him the doll anyway and tells Williams father that William wants a doll so when he has a baby someday he'll know how to care for it!
It also has my favorite princess story ever called "Atalanta," about a princess whose Dad decides it's time for her to get married and sets up a race where the winner will get to marry Atalanta. Only, she doesn't know that she wants to get married and asks if she can also run in the race. If she wins, she'll decide for herself what she wants to do.
Check it out!

[shockponie]

The people I've seen having problems with it are dads, when their sons want something "girly." I don't care who likes what. It's your beeswax, not mine.

[Sandra]

Anyone ever see this? It made me giggle.

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This was like me growing up. I was fortunate enough to have played with whatever kind of toys I liked. I had many Barbie dolls, but I also had tons of legos and remote control cars. Apparently I also had a dinosaur phase and would only play with dino toys and wear dinosaur-themed clothing. Kids will be kids, why not let them play with what they want? My coworker was visiting in-laws once with her family and she forgot to pack pajamas for her daughter, so she went to the store to pick up a cheap pair she could wear. Her daughter (she was 3 or 4 at the time) picked out a pair of boys' dinosaur PJs, so my coworker bought them. Her in-laws threw a fit about their granddaughter wearing boy pajamas! Seriously, a toddler picked out a pair of PJs that she wanted to wear. What can possibly be wrong with that?

Working at a kids' clothing store, I am unfortunately exposed to this kind of stuff all the time. I have no problem with a boy picking out a tractor shirt or a girl picking out a ballerina shirt, but I also wouldn't have a problem with it being the other way around. Kids shouldn't be made to feel ashamed because of what toys or clothing they like.

[GothMummy]

I don't understand; what's the struggle? Maybe she wants to be a girly-girl. What if she doesn't want to be an engineer? She might want to be a ballerina.
[/quote]

She might indeed She certainly loves her "baby Ballet" lessons. I just want to make sure I expose her to all the other alternatives as well and give her all the opportunities that girls and women have in this country now

[Scraleos]

I was in the store yesterday, in the toy isle, looking for ponies of course. There was a little girl looking at the 'boys' toys. She picked out a pack of race cars, and the mother took it off her, telling her, "You can't have those, they are for boys." and it made me so mad! Poor little girl wanted to play with toy cars, and her mother wouldn't let her.

[Moss]

My sister was the girl who had to have everything pink, and I was always the one who wanted bug collecting kits. However, she's loved Legos for years, and I had quite the Barbie collection! My parents were never really concerned about "boy things" or "girl things," although since we were girls I guess it wasn't a big deal. I think boys get more flak for wanting girly things than the other way around. As comfortable as we were with what we liked, though, it felt like the most awful thing in the world to request to get the boy's toy at McDonald's instead of what I was "supposed" to get.

I'm waiting for the day when it truly doesn't matter. Liking things will not make you turn out a certain way, no matter what some people believe. And the division between the pink aisles and the rest of the store will never not look ridiculous.

Now if only people my age would stop assuming things about girls who have short hair... 

[tulagirl]

My daughter I am struggling more with though - she is mad on dolls and pushchairs and handbags, hair bands etc, she wants to copy me in everything I do (including putting make up, which I wont let her do) and shes only 2. I find myself sitting down trying to convince her to play with construction toys like Duplo as I want her to be an engineer when she grows up!

When I read this I feel a little sad.  That is probably just the way I am taking it.  Your daughter is clearly showing you what she loves and her preference.   Our role as educators/parents/caregivers is not to request a child to play with boy toys when they are a girl, or request a boy to play with girl toys when they are a boy.  Its to provide an environment that exposes them to boy/girl and not be condescending when that child picks what they want to play with on their own.  JMO  The exposure is just having the toys available for her.  To choose her field of work or career for her is much the same thing.  She is a person with individual thought and choices.  She may be talented in a totally different area.
This whole gender thing needs balance.  It works best when its a  behind the scenes like exposure with no interference on the part of an adult.  If the environment is set up right and the child is allowed to choose then we are on the right track.  Removing choices just places a child back in a pre-determined role by the parent and or society.
I didn't want to attack anyone, just wanted to share my passion on this topic in three areas and that is environment, toys and career talents.  My husband wanted to be a chef and was a disappointment to his family as a result. They are doctors.  That was not fair, my husband wasn't born to be a MD.  My BFF wanted to be in acting and theater. That wasn't okay either because she came from Lawyers.  It was so hard on her growing up knowing they wanted her to be something she had no interest in. We talked about that often.   My other friend's father was determined to make his daughter a lawyer and she became one only to live a life of emptiness and unhappiness.  She went back to school to become a teacher and now she is a happy person doing what she loves.  Why was it not okay for her to choose?  I will never understand that.  Not suggesting that is what you are doing by the way.