Children these days.

[ashes]

The issue of whether young girls should wear revealing clothing or not is a disturbing topic.  I find it sad that society would sooner have us blame the 8 year old (or her mom) for looking "sexy" rather than the man looking at that 8 year old as a sex object.  Something wrong with that...   

Parents have a responsibility to rear, protect, and teach their children - so yes, I can blame a parent for having their young child wear clothing that is inappropriate for their age.  And men who look at children as sex objects probably still will do so, regardless of what the children wear.  (And I wish I could lock up everyone who commits any act of violence or sexual abuse against children - there is no excuse for it).

I have to agree with this entirely, it is the parents responsibilty up to a certain age, to protect the child and to ensure they are dressed appropriately, as to what age this is, that is a topic of great debate, but there is a certain requirement of parents to protect their children and ensure they are not dressed promiscuously. That's what I feel anyway, it's a sad world we live in that children are allowed to dress inappropriately in clothing that some adults wouldn't even wear in public.

That is exactly the argument against women wearing certain clothes!  It makes me so angry.  You know what, perverts are perverts regardless of what people wear.  I once had a guy say to me "I wasn't perving on your kid I was just trying to read what his jacket said"  It was the single most creepy thing I've ever had a person say to me.  Why would I expect he was perving?  It makes me think he was.  And you know what my son was wearing.  Winter snow clothes.  As concealing and non-sexual as possible. 

Yes, parents should protect their children.  That means physically being around them and not putting them in dangerous situations.  Not stifling their sense of self.  Not teaching them sex is evil.  Not slut shaming themselves and others.  Actually, physically protecting them.

There is nothing that says "sex is evil" by having them dress appropriately for their age.  Sex is not appropriate for children.  And having them dress in a manner that is wholesome and uplifting IS protecting them - it encourages them to be proud of their self worth and that they are more than sex objects.

[xeevee]

The fact you see them as sex objects because they are wearing something revealing is a problem with you, not a problem with them.  Having them be happy with how they are regardless of anything external is uplifting.  Not teaching them they have to be prudish because you are.

I am certainly not saying you should go out and MAKE them wear revealing clothing, but people should let kids explore there own tastes.

[HollowZero]

That being said, I believe there's a difference between embracing your sexuality/appearance and being forced to look sexualized for society's benefit. Children, men, women, they can all dress how they please. I just have a problem when society pretty much dictates that girls are supposed to be a pretty face and then people complain that girls and women are dressing too provocatively. 

Awesome post.

Also, I have the most problem with clothes that have writing on them. Anyone recall that infamous shirt for girls that said something like "My brother does my homework" because she's too pretty or such? And the generic "So cute/pretty/beautiful it hurts". Or the boys shirts that imply winning is everything. Stuff like that enrages me.

[Galactica]

The real problem that I have is that the message so often seems to be "you should be careful of how your kid dresses in order to protect him or her from getting raped or sexualized"  - instead of focusing on the aggressor who is actually doing something wrong- 

I looked for someone who could communicate what I am saying a bit more clearly-  Check out http://www.savedmonton.com/our-campaigns.html  - They are a sexual assault awareness campaign that focuses on the aggressor- not the victim.

Typically, sexual assault awareness campaigns target potential victims by urging women to restrict their behavior. Research is telling us that targeting the behavior of victims is not only ineffective, but also contributes to and increases self-blame in survivors. Instead, the SAVE campaigns targets potential offenders - ultimately the ones who hold the power and responsibility to end sexual assault.. By addressing sexual assault without victim-blaming, we intend to mark Edmonton on the map as a model for other cities.

  (from http://www.savedmonton.com/our-campaigns.html)

[Heliodor]

That is exactly the argument against women wearing certain clothes!  It makes me so angry.  You know what, perverts are perverts regardless of what people wear.  I once had a guy say to me "I wasn't perving on your kid I was just trying to read what his jacket said"  It was the single most creepy thing I've ever had a person say to me.  Why would I expect he was perving?  It makes me think he was.  And you know what my son was wearing.  Winter snow clothes.  As concealing and non-sexual as possible. 

Yes, parents should protect their children.  That means physically being around them and not putting them in dangerous situations.  Not stifling their sense of self.  Not teaching them sex is evil.  Not slut shaming themselves and others.  Actually, physically protecting them.

This post = flawless. +1

[Sarahlacewing]

There is nothing that says "sex is evil" by having them dress appropriately for their age.  Sex is not appropriate for children.  And having them dress in a manner that is wholesome and uplifting IS protecting them - it encourages them to be proud of their self worth and that they are more than sex objects.
 

I have to agree with this. 

Making sure that your children dress appropriately is not 'slut shaming'.  A child can express themselves without the need for inappropriate dress.  And if they can't, if the only thing that makes them feel good about themselves is wearing inappropriate clothing, I believe there are bigger issues happening.  Children push their boundaries.  In my view it's my job as a parent to gauge how far to let them push and when to step in and push back.  To me that is just part of being a parent, recognizing that sometimes I have the experience and knowledge to know what is best for my little one when they have other ideas about what they should and should not be allowed to do.

[Stuntmang]

There is nothing that says "sex is evil" by having them dress appropriately for their age.  Sex is not appropriate for children.  And having them dress in a manner that is wholesome and uplifting IS protecting them - it encourages them to be proud of their self worth and that they are more than sex objects.
 

I have to agree with this. 

Making sure that your children dress appropriately is not 'slut shaming'.  A child can express themselves without the need for inappropriate dress.  And if they can't, if the only thing that makes them feel good about themselves is wearing inappropriate clothing, I believe there are bigger issues happening.  Children push their boundaries.  In my view it's my job as a parent to gauge how far to let them push and when to step in and push back.  To me that is just part of being a parent, recognizing that sometimes I have the experience and knowledge to know what is best for my little one when they have other ideas about what they should and should not be allowed to do.

You claim it's not slut shaming, then drop this line:

And if they can't, if the only thing that makes them feel good about themselves is wearing inappropriate clothing, I believe there are bigger issues happening.

Whether or not it is slut shaming, you are slut shaming.

[ashes]

The fact you see them as sex objects because they are wearing something revealing is a problem with you, not a problem with them.  Having them be happy with how they are regardless of anything external is uplifting.  Not teaching them they have to be prudish because you are.

I am certainly not saying you should go out and MAKE them wear revealing clothing, but people should let kids explore there own tastes.

I still fail to see how small children dressing modestly and age appropriate 1) makes me view them as sex objects and 2) makes me a prude.  Sex is great - but it's still not for small children.  Maybe you're doing a little projecting there.

[melipuffles]

I think the point that is trying to be made is:

Women regardless of age should be allowed to wear whatever they'd like and not be thought of as sex objects just because of it.

It's like people who say "Oh, you deserved to be raped because you dressed like a slut."

 When I was 14 I was wearing a tight but not overly revealing shirt. A boy in my school grabbed my boob and when I told it to the teacher they said "Well, you shouldn't be wearing a tight shirt like that, it provokes people." :/

[ChocolateStarfire]

What do you think about them? Are they growing up too fast for their age?

I've noticed as the years are going by more and more are going out partying at 15 and younger, having babies at 13+, Being sexually active in grade 8 etc..

When I was a kid I played with My Little Ponies and barbies.. Not with my baby or with rude parts.

What do you think about the society these days?

Here is my honest opinion about the original post...

I don't think any of what you said is new or suddenly alarming. Tweens and teens have always, as a general rule, been rebellious of their parents, partied, hung out with "the wrong crowd," and been wanton to explore their own sexuality. It's part of being a teenager, and part of growing up. Most people undergo this rebellious phase from the ages of 13ish to 20ish. It's part of adolescence and trying to feel for the way you are as an individual, to explore your new sense of sexuality, and to be free from the mold that your parents put you in from day 1 of your birth. You may not agree, you may think I am spouting psychobabble, but from time immemorial this is what happens to people in the viable teen years. There are few, like me, for example, who do not undergo this phase, and repress sexuality, only to wind up expressing it later in life, which for most of us here at the Arena, makes sense. By doing so we avoid unwanton attention, we don't risk unwanted pregnancy, and are typically more introspective and sensitive to the needs of our future children, if any. That is not such a bad thing, but it's rare on the whole, especially when viewing this lens on a global perspective and in different cultures/classes.

As far as the younger set (less than 13)...that's pushing it, in my opinion. I think that kids should stay kids until they really understand what it means to grow up (and I don't mean due to societal pressure to look, act, or be a certain way, but on their own and in their own time). There are consequences to the way people behave, and I think that's the real message that needs to be imparted by parents in the recent generations or generations to come. Kids will try to get away with everything just to be cool and fit in, and their parents need to pull on the reins, so to speak, and get them to understand that sometimes that behavior leads to consequences...not necessarily making them feel bad for expressing themselves, that's not what I'm after, it's more of a 'wear this in that situation' versus 'don't wear that ever again!'. What the kid wants to wear, or have, or be is a very personal thing, and touchy in and of itself, but a parent should be there to guide the child, and serve as a gentle guardian, nudging them in the right direction every once in a while. What I think would work for the tweens begging for fun new clothes is the right to earn money to buy such clothes, rather than the parents constantly giving in, just for the sake of example here. In addition, maybe parents should show their kids how certain clothes last longer, help them choose what clothes look best on them (not just for a trend), etc.

As far as being sexually active goes as a teenager...it's going to happen, I hate to say it. It's up to the parent and the teen to be responsible and use/take birth control, etc. There is no curbing that behavior, not really, until the teen essentially grows up and learns to control one's urges for themselves. Again, the consequences are there, and the teen does know what they are (pregnancy, STDs, etc.). It's up to the teen to heed the messages of their parents/school and then to deal with the consequences of their chosen actions. That's what being an adult is all about. If it means they have to grow up fast, so be it. It is a little sad, in that some lose their childhood quickly in that way, but there really is nothing much that can be done in the U.S. that hasn't already been done.

In other words...for those tl;dr ponies...I say let kids be kids as long as they want to be. If you don't agree with the parenting styles/expressions of sexuality of others...keep that in mind should you decide to be or already are a parent, and act accordingly. And we should emphasize consequences to adult actions, more than anything else, on adult terms. This is a very personal preference sort of thing...an absolute answer to this "dilemma" is not possible...but compromise is.

[kaoskat]

I'm dropping a warning here before this gets too out of hand as some tempers seem to be starting to flare a bit. Let's try to maintain the civility so I don't have to lock this. Thanks.

[ChocolateStarfire]

I think the point that is trying to be made is:

Women regardless of age should be allowed to wear whatever they'd like and not be thought of as sex objects just because of it.

It's like people who say "Oh, you deserved to be raped because you dressed like a slut."

 When I was 14 I was wearing a tight but not overly revealing shirt. A boy in my school grabbed my boob and when I told it to the teacher they said "Well, you shouldn't be wearing a tight shirt like that, it provokes people." :/

First of all, I am sorry that happened to you. Second, your teacher was not behaving in a way that would help you, instead she shamed you, which is never okay. Men get away with a lot more than women do in society as a whole when it comes to sexuality, in my opinion, and this slant is perpetuated by similar comments (e.g., "Well you shouldn't dress like that, you'll be thought of as a slut, etc. etc.")

One of my favorite new books on the topic of women and sexuality is "A Good Girl's Guide to Bad Girl Sex." It shows that you don't have to dress in ways most people would deem inappropriate to be sexy and to feel sexy, and it'd be great for the older teen.

Post Merge: December 12, 2012, 05:37:17 PM

Yes, parents should protect their children.  That means physically being around them and not putting them in dangerous situations.  Not stifling their sense of self.  Not teaching them sex is evil.  Not slut shaming themselves and others.  Actually, physically protecting them.

This post = flawless. +1

I completely agree. Parents need to be there for their kids, and by the same token, lay the groundwork for becoming an adult. That doesn't include allowing your child (what I consider to be under the age of 13) to act however he/she wants without some form of consequences, yet at the same time, it does allow for the child to be independent. It's a fine balance to walk.

[alkevin]

I have to agree with ChocolateStarfire, men get away with a lot more, they blame  the women. When I younger, I was on line for entering the bus, which was really crowded, a man passed way too fast and and touched lightlly my butt, I looked at him with a really angry face. His looks was like: that´s a normal behavior. "I wish I had kicked him" Children and Teens need to learn that their choices and behaviors have consequences.

[ChocolateStarfire]

Wow...just wow. D:

All I can say is, parents REALLY need to impart consequences to actions. It's one of the biggest reasons why society behaves the way it does in the States. It goes beyond kids acting like adults...and acting out. It shapes individuals, who in turn shape society.

[Sarahlacewing]

Whether or not it is slut shaming, you are slut shaming.

"Slut-shaming is defined as the act of making someone, usually a woman, feel guilty or inferior, for engaging in certain sexual behaviors that violate traditional gender expectations. These include, depending on culture, having a large number of sex partners, having sexual relations outside marriage, having casual sexual relations, or acting or dressing in a way that is deemed excessively sexual."

I do find all of these things inappropriate for children, so I suppose you are right I am slut-shaming in the sense I don't think any of the things above are suitable for children. I mean come on, they are children.  Children should have sex?  Or in your point of view children should be allowed to dress for sex appeal? They haven't even reached an age of sexual maturity or curiosity.  I'm sorry, but I just don't think I'll ever be of the opinion that children are ready and capable of dealing with this stuff.  When they get older and are ready they should be educated about sex and given freedom to reach out for gender or sexual empowerment.  But not when they are children. When they are children we make sure they can be children.

I still fail to see how small children dressing modestly and age appropriate 1) makes me view them as sex objects and 2) makes me a prude.  Sex is great - but it's still not for small children.  Maybe you're doing a little projecting there.

I agree with this. I should just leave it to you Ashes I think we are largely coming from the same place.