Gender-neutrality @ Harrod's

[hathorcat]

I dont think there is any harm in people having different opinions on this so lets not tell them to STFU and that they are being ridiculous for what they say. As I mentioned its a hot subject but one we should be able to discuss without calling each other out.

And as much as I personally disagree with some statements that doesnt make me wrong or the person stating them wrong - its an individual opinion. I dont agree that pink and blue aisles are completely "enforcing" stereotypes - they are a marketing ploy to help aid buying but thats my opinion. And we can see from the amount of people in this thread stating that they had boys toys when younger despite being girls that the blue aisle was not a no-go land to them, which is good.

Personally I am not upset by their being gender focused aisles, I just dont think it matters and I dont understand why having specific aisles prevents boys heading for the pink and girls heading for the blue. Personally I like the separation it makes finding the toys I am interested in that much easier!

I think if nothing else this thread seems to conclude that we are all of the opinion kids should pretty much be able to pick and choose whichever toy from whichever aisle that that want

[HavACrumpet452]

I don't think it will work. Hot Wheels cars still come in blue packages while barbies still come in pink. If they seperate barbies in one aisle for dolls and Hot Wheels in an aisle for cars then there is still a blue aisle and a pink aisle and the boys and girls will still seperate.

[Takoto]

This is a good idea.
As a kid, people in my family who didn't know me "too well" forced me to the girl isles when I absolutely hated that stuff. I hated everything pink, sparkly, doll-related or clothes-related, apart from certain Disney franchises (Mulan, Lion King), and MLP, though I was sort of like "those are ok/cool" that actually wanted them.

I'd much rather have been in the boys isles looking at Pokémon toys and video games and things relating to anime like Dragonball. A gender neutral store will hopefully allow kids to be able to make their own decisions about what they want more, rather than people just forcing them off to the gendered isles.

When I was a kid I was a bit weird on gender. Didn't see myself as ether gender and usually identified as male when I could, not my birth gender, so I'm probably very bias on this ahah;;

[starlightcomet]

Maybe its just around here locally but I don't think I really see a specific predominately blue section when I walk through toy stores or toy sections where everything for an aisle or 2 is blue. There are some brands of toy like Thomas the Tank Engine that use blue, since the character is blue. Or Toy Story due to the sky blue wallpaper in the film used as a backdrop. But other than that the colours are pretty varied, until you hit the section awash with pink.

Sylvanian Families packaging is coloured blue due to using a sky with clouds as the backdrop similar to Toy Story. Some might consider those "for girls" since its cutesy little animals and families playing house in doll house style environments etc. (Of course that isn't my opinion.)

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Looking at that video posted further back the 4 year old didn't say "blue" for the boys they said "different colours". I could be wrong but I think for the most part boys toys don't use the blue cliche as often as girls toys use pink. Like in this pic of a Walmart, the toys seem to cover a spectrum. Black, yellow, red, green etc. It's mainly the walls that have been painted blue.

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Credit: http://poshnicki.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/my-trip-to-the-toy-aisle-walmart/

But this is predominately pink even without painting the walls to be that way:

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Credit: http://poshnicki.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/my-trip-to-the-toy-aisle-walmart/

[Malicieuse]

I think it's a nice initiative but i doubt it will accomplish much.
In the end it's the parents who decide what a kid gets. The lay-out of a store is not going to matter much if a parent is already convinced girls should only play with toys aimed at girls (same for boys). When i was a kid my parents didn't mind me getting toys aimed mostly at boys (i had a ton of dinosaurs).
So for parents who let their kids pick what they like the color of an isle is of no importance in the first place.

[Heliodor]

This is AWESOME!! I sincerely hope that, one day, all stores are organised this way.

[LadyMoondancer]

I don't get why people think parents have absolute control over what influences their kids.  Kids are little sponges, absorbing EVERYTHING they see--not just "what mom and dad tell them."

Gender-divided toy aisles absolutely broadcast a message.  "Girls can like this, boys can like that.  And if you cross the invisible line, you are some kind of weirdo."   Some kids, either due to natural personality or family support, can ignore that message, which is great.  But what a crappy deal for more sensitive kids.

I mean, look at the whole "brony" thing.  What I hear from most of them is "I always thought MLP was about vapid giggling and tea parties"--yeah, because they were trained to ignore and disparage anything girly. 

It's especially bad for boys, because of the whole stereotype of "if you like anything girly than you must be gay, which is BAD" idea.

Oh--I think it's also worth pointing out that it's not just kids who are influenced by the gendered layouts of toys.  It's also adults--from the parents who just plain won't let a girl play with "boy" toys or vice versa, to the ones who only look for birthday presents in the pink (or blue) aisle because it's been so ingrained in them that "pink is for girls, blue is for boys", to that one stupid relative who tells you that your little girl will grow up to be a lesbian (gasp!) if you buy her a football.

One store layout is not going to change their minds, but it is a step towards change, towards making it "normal" not to shunt one gender away from the other (cooties!), and that is a positive thing.

[Aerora]

I don't have it to hand, but there's a really nice comic somewhere that says something along the lines of:
Girls choosing pink (when given multiple options; the picture had a girl being offered stuff in blue/yellow/etc and chose pink) isn't the problem - it's making that the only choice that is. There's nothing wrong with liking pink, or any color, it's restricting color choices of stuff based on gender that's ridiculous.

Boy stuff is "gender neutral" - it's more okay, societally, for girls to want boy toys. Boy toys come in every color. But if something is marketed to girls, that means it must be girls only, and it's "emasculating" or "unmanly" for a boy to want it. :/ And yeah, honestly, those stereotypes can be pretty damaging for someone of any gender! I don't know where I was going with this.

[Rosencrantz]

I like the idea of grouping kids toys by theme, rather than pink and blue. It would make it easier for me to find what I'm interested in by going via the theme.

[tulagirl]

I dont think there is any harm in people having different opinions on this so lets not tell them to STFU and that they are being ridiculous for what they say. As I mentioned its a hot subject but one we should be able to discuss without calling each other out.

Yes I agree. I like the strong opinions on both sides.  I don't feel any one person's opinion is wrong.  Debates are good for all of us.  I think it would be awful if everyone agreed on everything.  Where would we be with that going on?  We all need to be able to see things in our own way.  I really think too that how we were raised, what ages we are and our personal values will affect how we respond to things like this.  I was born in a decade where equality was a big issue and major changes took place in America because of it.  People have always wanted to change things so others can feel a part of something in this world.  Its human nature to want to create comfort and equality.  I think we all have different ideas though on how equality is created for our children.  I feel making changes at home and at school where kids spend the most time will make the biggest difference in their lives.  We have a long way to go though. There are too many differences in culture to possibly fix it all in order to help all.  Socioeconomic status, age, culture, family background, values, how you are raised and personality all play a part in how we respond to things like this. I do not think any of us will find this world ideal no matter what we try to do.  We still have major issues with incorporating children with special needs, dealing with bullies in schools, and removing views on people with mental issues.  In our constant efforts to change everything we, at times, have made things worse.

[starrypawz]

I don't have it to hand, but there's a really nice comic somewhere that says something along the lines of:
Girls choosing pink (when given multiple options; the picture had a girl being offered stuff in blue/yellow/etc and chose pink) isn't the problem - it's making that the only choice that is. There's nothing wrong with liking pink, or any color, it's restricting color choices of stuff based on gender that's ridiculous.

Boy stuff is "gender neutral" - it's more okay, societally, for girls to want boy toys. Boy toys come in every color. But if something is marketed to girls, that means it must be girls only, and it's "emasculating" or "unmanly" for a boy to want it. :/ And yeah, honestly, those stereotypes can be pretty damaging for someone of any gender! I don't know where I was going with this.

I think I know the one you're talking about, its something like
'Do you want the green, the blue or the pink?' and the girl goes pink but the second panel is something like 'do you want the rose, the fuscia or the hot pink?'

[Heliodor]

Oh--I think it's also worth pointing out that it's not just kids who are influenced by the gendered layouts of toys.  It's also adults--from the parents who just plain won't let a girl play with "boy" toys or vice versa, to the ones who only look for birthday presents in the pink (or blue) aisle because it's been so ingrained in them that "pink is for girls, blue is for boys", to that one stupid relative who tells you that your little girl will grow up to be a lesbian (gasp!) if you buy her a football.

Lol the best part is that the "pink is for girls and blue is for boys" is a relatively recent construction.

In Michael Kimmel’s outstanding Manhood in America: A Cultural History, he points out that clothing wasn’t colour-coded in America until the early twentieth century, before which little boys and girls were dressed pretty much identically. Even when people started pushing for more gender-specific children’s clothing, there was a huge debate over which colour to assign to which gender. It started out with boys wearing pink or red because the colours were seen to indicate strength, while girls wore blue because they were “flighty” like the sky. From a 1918 editorial called “Pink or Blue” cited by Kimmel:

“There has been a great diversity of opinion on the subject, but the generally accepted rule is pink for the boy and blue for the girl. The reason is that pink being a more decided and stronger color is more suitable for the boy; while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”

Which basically means that all that "GIRLS ARE INHERENTLY PINK AND PINK MAKES BOYS GAY" is just a bunch of jack. This is besides the fact that being gay isn't even a problem. Lol. Society is basically full of arbitrary, made-up random crap. One day society might actually figure out that people are people and don't all adhere to their randomly changing "SET IN STONE UNTIL NEXT CENTURY" gender rules. Lolll but when will that be? Probably never. I find myself flipping the bird @ society on a regular basis. Because it honestly holds up the stupidest, most damaging BS "rules" in the world.

[starlightcomet]

Lol the best part is that the "pink is for girls and blue is for boys" is a relatively recent construction.

Yeah I forget the page but I found some pictures once of pink dresses for boys from the mid 1800s. Apparently a clear divide came about with World War 2.

In the 1800s most infants were dressed in white, and gender differences weren't highlighted until well after the kids were able to walk. One theory is that distinguishing boys from girls was less important than distinguishing kids from adults. [...]
By midcentury baby clothing in colors other than white had begun to appear, but gender-based distinctions were slow to emerge. In 1855 the New York Times reported on a "baby show" put on by P.T. Barnum, exhibiting "one hundred and odd babies" dressed in pinks, blues, and other colors seemingly without regard to gender. [...] it took decades to develop a consensus on what those colors were. For years one camp claimed pink was the boys' color and blue the girls'. [...]

Interesting full article here: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2831/was-pink-originally-the-color-for-boys-and-blue-for-girls

Here's another with some pics: http://hueconsulting.blogspot.co.uk/2007/03/why-is-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls.html

Apparently some countries use pink for baby boys (e.g. Belguim). Or use it interchangeably between genders.

I don't hate pink or anything (<-- Fluttershy avatar with pink hair ) but I do think it'd be cool if like boys toys there was more colour variation in girls toys. Because I think that boys toys aren't predominately blue these days anyway so why should girls toys be predominately pink? Hasbro keeps stating that they make Pinklestias and White Celestia will be limited because focus groups say "Give us pink" but I wonder if the groups contain the audience who watch the show which markets and advertises the toys?

[KarentheUnicorn]

I feel bad for saying this but I really don't care.

Organizing by play theme? Isn't that how most toy stores and toy sections already organize they're toys? Dolls are usually all together, trucks and vehicles are usually all together. Blocks and building toys are usually all together. You get the idea, pretty sure everyone has been in the toy isle.

I have no problem with Baby Dolls and Toy Cars being displayed together but they sure are not the same play 'theme'. So it'd be interesting to see how this would work since I've been in places like Toys R Us quite a few times and usually the same kind of toys are together in the same section.

Yea, it's usually by boy and girl but then there is no actual sign up that says No girls allowed or No boys allowed.

SO I really don't know how mixed you can do toys in a store before you are totally disorganizing them in a way where people can't find a darn thing.

If you go in a store like Dollar Tree or Dollar General, sometimes those toy isles are all mixed up and usually the problem is you can't find anything because it's a jumbled up hot mess and you have to weed through everything to find what you are looking for.

If a kid wants a hot wheels car I don't want to have to wade through 500 baby dolls and if I want to buy a princess doll for one of my little cousins I don't want to have to dig through building block sets to get a princess doll.

I get the desire that we want it to be okay for a boy to have a baby doll or pony and okay for a girl to have a car or whatever. I just don't know how well you are going to mix the two before it will make no sense in terms of shopping.

I don't think the whole idea in a store is they want to divide boys and girls as it's more an easier way for people to shop and find what they are looking for, etc.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I'm just surprised that more male collectors haven't come to this thread and gone, "COOL!  That's what we wanted, a toy section where I don't feel awkward picking out a Pinkie Pie!" 

Not that there's anything TO feel awkward about, but many of them have expressed these opinions.  I thought this would generate some goodwill towards the androgyny of ponies.