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There's a really interesting book called Sold Separately that talks about this (and even has a chapter devoted the MLP--the 80s show and the toys) and examines how "girls" shows and toys differ from "boys" shows and toys. I highly recommend it, it's an interesting read. There are both pros and cons to girls being shunted into "the pink ghetto."visitors can't see pics , please register or loginOne of the pros is that in the pink ghetto, female characters can have more range. There are some "gender neutral" shows that have strong female roles--Avatar The Last Airbender comes to mind--but all too often when you have a mixed cast of boys and girls, the female characters always end up in the following roles:The Girlfriend / Love Interest. Even in G.I. Joe, where I believe it is technically against the rules for soldiers to date within the chain of command, you just KNEW Scarlett was going to end up as the Love Interest. The Sultry Temptress. Oh, curse those villainous women and their tempting ways!!The Mother. Thank goodness the sensible female character is there to take care of sensible matters and allow the male characters to be irresponsible layabouts!I mean, this is a simplification obviously, but the fact remains . . . it's really, really hard to break female characters out of all the baggage that our society automatically heaps on girls and women unless you shake things up. And one way to do that is to create a "pinkified" world where the very setting screams "THIS IS FOR GIRLS!!!"I don't see it as being sexist. I see it as trying to provide a haven. Of course I am fine with boys / men watching girls shows; but only if they accept them for what they are, in all their pinkness, and don't try to "mannify" the show into "G.I. Joe with ponies," if you know what I mean.
I don't see it as being sexist. I see it as trying to provide a haven. Of course I am fine with boys / men watching girls shows; but only if they accept them for what they are, in all their pinkness, and don't try to "mannify" the show into "G.I. Joe with ponies," if you know what I mean.
Quote from: LadyMoondancer on May 25, 2012, 06:42:42 AMThere's a really interesting book called Sold Separately that talks about this (and even has a chapter devoted the MLP--the 80s show and the toys) and examines how "girls" shows and toys differ from "boys" shows and toys. I highly recommend it, it's an interesting read. There are both pros and cons to girls being shunted into "the pink ghetto."visitors can't see pics , please register or loginOne of the pros is that in the pink ghetto, female characters can have more range. There are some "gender neutral" shows that have strong female roles--Avatar The Last Airbender comes to mind--but all too often when you have a mixed cast of boys and girls, the female characters always end up in the following roles:The Girlfriend / Love Interest. Even in G.I. Joe, where I believe it is technically against the rules for soldiers to date within the chain of command, you just KNEW Scarlett was going to end up as the Love Interest. The Sultry Temptress. Oh, curse those villainous women and their tempting ways!!The Mother. Thank goodness the sensible female character is there to take care of sensible matters and allow the male characters to be irresponsible layabouts!I mean, this is a simplification obviously, but the fact remains . . . it's really, really hard to break female characters out of all the baggage that our society automatically heaps on girls and women unless you shake things up. And one way to do that is to create a "pinkified" world where the very setting screams "THIS IS FOR GIRLS!!!"I don't see it as being sexist. I see it as trying to provide a haven. Of course I am fine with boys / men watching girls shows; but only if they accept them for what they are, in all their pinkness, and don't try to "mannify" the show into "G.I. Joe with ponies," if you know what I mean.I do notice on tv when it comes to kids the father is almost always a moron(burns dinner,can't control the kids ect) and the mother is the perfect mother. but gender roles and sexist views are ingrained in our very culture even our very brains! when you think of a nurse or teacher you think girl, when you think soldier or doctor or mechanic you think man.! girls have always been girly and did girls things and men have always been manly and done manly things, since the very begining of time. gender roles are almost part of our dna
Quote from: Stuntmang on May 24, 2012, 10:22:08 PMTo be fair, MLP aims itself at girls. Any toy line that aims itself at one gender specifically is sexist in its own right, regardless of anything else in said line. Why can't we just have toys instead of "THESE ARE FOR BOYS AND THESE ARE FOR GIRLS"?Not this again. :/If you think it wouldn't cause an uproar, go make some pastel ponies that are mostly pink with long, colorful brushable hair and other typical "girly" stuff (dress-up dresses and hair ties, wedding playsets, pink castles, etc) and aim them at boys. Good luck with all the hate mail and angry parents you'd have to deal with. I doubt your toy line would last long at all, if you even made it into mass production.That would not in any way be acceptable in modern society (talking about the US since I don't know anything about other countries). Parents would go absolutely ballistic over such a thing, and claim the toys were for gays, made by gays, would turn your children gay, are evil tools of Satan/devil worshippers/etc probably something about gay, blah blah blah gay bad evil, etc etc etc. And although I know some parents don't and wouldn't care if their son wanted to play with MLPs, they'd be teased at school most likely. And although most kids get teased in my experience, you have heard about the kids, some in elementary school, being bullied about being "gay" (whether or not they actually were) committing suicide, right?Simply put, society is not ready for such a thing. And for parents who don't believe in "girl toys" and "boy toys", they'll buy their kids the toys they like regardless of the gender they're aimed at and more than likely try to teach their child(ren) that gender stereotypes are not something that needs to be followed.
To be fair, MLP aims itself at girls. Any toy line that aims itself at one gender specifically is sexist in its own right, regardless of anything else in said line. Why can't we just have toys instead of "THESE ARE FOR BOYS AND THESE ARE FOR GIRLS"?
Okay, sorry about the wall of text . . . This is a topic that really interests me. I love studies of gender. I hope we can keep discussing this in depth!
Another type I notice is when you have a character who is say a tomboy its nearly always in such a way of 'LOL I'M BETTER THAN THOSE GIRLY GIRLS AS I DON'T LIKE GIRLY STUFF' and that if a female character acts 'feminime they're weak. I believe it's described by TV tropes as something like 'Real women don't wear skirts'It's annoying though as there seems to be two extremes, hyper feminine or really masculine and no one seems to be allowed to stay in a middle ground. And vice versa as how dare a male character differ from usual 'male interests'It's like you'd have a character who is say... a cop and the show seems to be set up in such a way of 'hey look, this is a cop and she's female' and generally seem to go out of their way to go 'oh look a female character is doing this' and 'watch how this female character does this' and well it gets annoying.
Basically, I feel G1 MLP was above average for its time (though not perfect) and FIM is truly extraordinary for its time (but only thanks to the seeds planted by G1).
I did not suggest aiming it at boys. I suggested aiming it at children, regardless of gender.
(Rainbows are considered girly, too...I wonder why they took it away--thanks a lot, G3s : P lol)
At it's core, it's still just a show about a gaggle of girls having adventures about 'The magic of friendship'. Doesn't sound all that... modern/groundbreaking/what-have-you, to me. For the time, I don't find the characters personalities to be all that unique, either. They are all character types that I would expect from a cartoon for girls. They may be slightly less one dimensional than in other cartoons (For instance, Rainbow Dash actually reads books), but they are still a bit more one dimensional than I think real little girls are.I realize Friendship is Magic is, by comparison to other little girls cartoons, a very good show, but looking at it on it's own I don't think it's nearly as modern as it could be. I'd really like to see them tackle some more 'real world issues' like they did with the episode where Zecora is introduced. I have nothing wrong with lessons of friendship or on the importance of being your own individual and doing what is right, but those seem like stereotypical messages for a girls cartoon to me.This is not to say I don't enjoy it. I really do enjoy watching it.
Actually rainbows are considered something else now.