pony pox / centerpoint cancer / age spots, possible cure?

[lostpony]

Collecting HTF Big Brother Pony Fire Chief we find he is rife with body material problems... 

I collected:
#1 with spot-free head and body but no hat and slight haircut (pictured in purple dress and #3's helmet)
#2 with better hair but terrible spotted body which I boiled (pictured in tutu with MLP sweater)
#3 to get the hat Yay! and very dirty...found one 2mm brown spot over his left eye, perfect disc but no dark center yet, and 1mm brown spot next to mane also perfect circle light brown, no center spot yet.

It is apparently unsettled whether centerpoint cancer / pony pox / age spots are alive or a chemical reaction of some kind...I dissected centerpoint cancer spots on Moonstone and another pony, and found it goes most of the way through the pony material and seems to possibly start inside then erupt to the surface. 

Having observed a dramatic lightening in color to a centerpoint cancer spot on Bright Eyes when boiling her for almost an hour, I decided to boil Chief #3's head until I was satisfied his spots had gone...in about 2 hours, the larger one had become a tiny dark pinpoint and the smaller one had disappeared entirely.  However, the head had yellowed and was now darker than the body so, I did my first peroxide sunfade...after 5 days of patchy sun immersed in a jar of peroxide, the head is now lighter than the body and the dark pinpoint has also disappeared...I regret I took no pics of the spots before (sorry about that, I did not expect such success!).  I am considering peroxide fading the body to perfect the match, and then trying the very extended boil then if yellowed, the peroxide fade method on the more mature spots on Chief #2, taking complete pictures, to see if the spots can be affected in this way.

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There are a few more pics in here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzP8lAXs8KOWV1VoTTlkNFZHOG8
(if you want to comment about the other items in that share other than the pox, the brag post about them is here: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,379839.msg1552051.html#msg1552051)


Any thoughts??  Predictions?  Information or suggestions? 

[Sapling]

No suggestions I'm afraid, I just love that chief is wearing a purple dress!  Looking forward to seeing how more advanced cancer chief shapes up after his treatments

[Applejackgirl]

What did you boil them in? And congrats to your success.  My only concern about the sunfading on the body is the red hose will probably fade unless it is protected.

[lostpony]

Boiling in plain water.  Has not yet been proven to work on any but the youngest centerpoint spots but I plan to take a go at the older spots and update here with whether I could affect them...#2 chief displayed in the tutu has some good mature centerpoint spots on his legs and hooves, and was boiled before but not superlong like #3's head...

What do i use to protect the symbol from the peroxide sunfade?

I used foil on the hair for the head as was recommended to me, and a little bit at the bottom of the mane where I could not get the foil to stay put got a tad of purple to it...on any body I put in the peroxide I will pull out the tail but I need advice on how to mask the symbol.  Obviously it has to be something I can paint on just over the actual color and it has to withstand peroxide and it has to be removable.

It's also not certain that I needed that many peroxide fade days, maybe the solution is to check a couple times per day and end as soon as the brightness is achieved...while the #3 head was in the peroxide it looked whiter than it was when taken out so I left it several days and didn't check outside the peroxide during that time.  The brown eye detail paint does seem lighter and the eye color has definitely brightened up...

Please some one advise what is good to mask the symbol, thanks so much!!!

[Motion-Paradox]

I have a suggestion, perhaps trying with a colourful pony, one that isn't pure white, and seeing if there's anything that can be done with them.

I have a flat-foot Butterscotch who is in fairly good shape apart from having a few brown spots, and I'd love to be able to fix her

[StarlightFrost]

I remember a thread about how benzoyl peroxide whitened ponies, but ended up staying in the plastic and continuing to bleach it for a long time after and eventually yellowing it. Info on this thread for the curious: http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,377336.0.html
Not sure if its the same for hydrogen peroxide, if that's what you used?

As far as masking for sunfading, i've seen masking tape recommended.
But I managed to find this thread http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,288994.0.html
Which uses paint to keep the symbols and stuff safe. It apparently works.

Here's a site that's great for pony restoration, and in particular the section that is relevant to sudfading and such: http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/body.html#StainRemoval

[Galactica]

I have heard of pinpoint spots going away with boiling and scrubbing-

I could easily find out what pin-dot is by sending it into a lab to be tested- but for some reason just don't want to shell out the money for that

However, just from the pattern and circumstances of how and when it appears- I am 85% sure that it is a fungal growth of some kind.

Those links are very helpful!  Especially the one about painting with craft paint and then sun fading-

[lostpony]

OK a few things:

1.  I discovered that boiling for a long time has some impact on centerpoint cancer while working on Bright Eyes, and a dark spot turned light and also swelled into a bump where it had been smooth before...leading me to suspect that it IS possibly something alive because I cannot explain how this would be the result if it were a chemical reaction of some kind...but also it seemed like the boiling was affecting the color of the pony too so I am not sure this method is going to be very safe on colored ponies...I had to boil Chief twice as long and that might have ruined a colored pony...Motion-Paradox do you have pictures of your Butterscotch's spots? to determine which type of spots they are...

2.  Pindot as I understand it is different as it is a surface pitting with dark inside the pits...I soaked some ponies with that including a Strawberry Surprise in a very strong bleach solution for a few days and that worked.  Centerpoint cancer is where there is a light brown disc which is often very perfectly round with a darker spot in the center...I have cut into this and found that the dark color is not on the surface of the pony but in fact deep inside...in every case I've dissected so far, almost perfectly in the center between the inside and the outside surfaces of the pony material.  This is why it can't be scrubbed off!  If you cut it out you are left with a huge crater...I have a Moonstone with a couple such craters, my dissection victim, who I will be keeping  to myself, never trading or giving away.  While cutting away the cancer I found that the dark layer goes around the dark center and if you cut into it you see it between the pony-colored material areas like the dark rings of a tree.  It's definitely inside the pony material.

3.  I have heard that the acne creams have their application but are dangerous and that thread shows that the results you get may change over time.  One purpose of my extended boiling experiment is to observe the results over time and see if they last or if the cancer returns or some other, unforeseen consequence arises.

4.  Centerpoint as alive:  For reasons including the poor storage conditions of those ponies that I have received with centerpoint cancer spots, the circular growth pattern, and the effect extended boiling has on it, I currently favor the belief that it is alive.  However, the tendency for certain ponies to have it so much more than others, such as the Chief, supports that it is either a chemical reaction or possibly that there are certain materials or conditions that centerpoint cancer requires that occur more in some ponys' materials than in others.  Also, some examples I have seen that are not perfectly circular seem to have a contaminant at their center dictating the noncircular pattern, complicating the analysis...but the one thing I am certain of is that a mystery demands investigation!

5.  Paint as mask:  A quick read-through of that thread makes me worry that there may be no paint suitable for masking in a peroxide bath because the craft paint suggested there is described as "removed by a peroxide bath".  It is clear that peroxide bath is fast-acting.  However....the good old fashioned dry sunbath described in that thread may still be the best way to achieve proper results in the long term.  Until I find a masking method that survives peroxide without contaminating the bath and still removes afterwards, regardless of my desire for fast results I have to conclude that the dry sunbath must still be the right solution.

Thanks everypony for the input!

[shadowlark]

I have heard of pinpoint spots going away with boiling and scrubbing-

I could easily find out what pin-dot is by sending it into a lab to be tested- but for some reason just don't want to shell out the money for that

However, just from the pattern and circumstances of how and when it appears- I am 85% sure that it is a fungal growth of some kind.

Those links are very helpful!  Especially the one about painting with craft paint and then sun fading-

Has anyone ever tried using an anti-fungal medication on pin-dot? Curious to see if it would help or how/if it would affect the plastic over time.

[Galactica]

1.  I discovered that boiling for a long time as some impact on centerpoint cancer while working on Bright Eyes, and a dark spot turned light and also swelled into a bump where it had been smooth before...leading me to suspect that it IS possibly something alive because I cannot explain how this would be the result if it were a chemical reaction of some kind...but also it seemed like the boiling was affecting the color of the pony too so I am not sure this method is going to be very safe on colored ponies...I had to boil Chief twice as long and that might have ruined a colored pony...

4.  Centerpoint as alive:  For reasons including the poor storage conditions of those ponies with it that I have received with it, the circular growth pattern, and the effect extended boiling has on it, I currently favor the belief that it is alive.  However, the tendency for certain ponies to have it so much more than others, such as the Chief, supports that it is either a chemical reaction or possibly that there are certain materials or conditions that it requires that occur more in certain pony materials.  Also, some examples I have seen that are not perfectly circular seem to have a contaminant at their center dictating the noncircular pattern...but the one thing I am certain of is that a mystery demands investigation!

Thanks everypony for the input!

Well more evidence it is alive- the "center point" cancer as you say, seems to happen in light colored pony.  It may be a spore or bacterial reaction that is sped along by light or heat-  light colored ponies will allow more light and heat through them.

Post Merge: June 16, 2016, 02:22:53 PM

I have heard of pinpoint spots going away with boiling and scrubbing-

I could easily find out what pin-dot is by sending it into a lab to be tested- but for some reason just don't want to shell out the money for that

However, just from the pattern and circumstances of how and when it appears- I am 85% sure that it is a fungal growth of some kind.

Those links are very helpful!  Especially the one about painting with craft paint and then sun fading-

Has anyone ever tried using an anti-fungal medication on pin-dot? Curious to see if it would help or how/if it would affect the plastic over time.

I've never heard of it- which might mean it doesn't work (seems like folks have tried everything).

So maybe it is more likely a bacterial process-  the fact that it only happens with older ponies (and oddly enough really cheap fakies) suggests that there must also be something relating to the plasticizer breakdown (maybe pockets open up allowing the growth to start)

If only one of us were a chemical engineer! 

[lostpony]

These are all petrochemicals....come from oil which came from life...all Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen tied up in benzene molecules of many varied combinations.

I considered light and oxygen...if these are needed, then why does it seem to originate deep in the material?  Why does it not spread more across the surface once it erupts?  Seems like it hides from the oxygen as it continues to grow more inside the material even after it has erupted through the surface.

The two different colors reminds me of lichens:  a symbiotic pair of organisms with one that photosynthesizes and grows on the surface, and the other that bores into the rock which exchange resources with each other and work together as a single organism.  This analogy does break down compared to centerpoint though, in that the surface growth never exceeds the deep-down growth...the dark spot could just be a concentration of the lighter brown but why the distinct boundary between the light and dark areas? 

Better knowledge of the exact chemistry of the plastics and the plasticizer would definitely benefit us!  Rather than going to school for a decade to learn for ourselves, maybe could recruit some petrochemical engineers...sneak into Chevron's engineering labs with some ponies and try to get them addicted... 

Ah yes and as to anti-fungal medication:  does any such thing exist?  If it did, while that could kill the infection assuming it is alive, it would still not reverse the visible spots.  My theory as to why extended boiling reduces the visible effects is that perhaps the extended heat breaks down the resultant compounds that have color...destroying the biological or chemical links that make the material brown. 

Regardless, I will soon take thorough pics of #2 Chief's spots then boil him for hours....maybe tonight, then take after pics if there is anything to see, and update this thread with the results.  Having made smaller, apparently younger spot disappear convinces me that while I might not understand it, I can affect it and so I will try to affect bigger spots even if poor #2 Chief boils away.

[SunbeamV]

I've had  a bit of luck fading the dark centre dot in this type of pony cancer by dipping a pin into some acetone and pricking the dot a couple times, but that does do some mild damage. Far less than cutting a crater in the pony, mind you, but likely not a solution for everyone's tastes.