What's the correct thing to do in this situation?

[NovelNerd]

Ebay/Paypal would make you refund the buyer the entire value of the purchase if there is no insurance on it, should it be lost.

This because in the end it doesn't matter how many times you tell the buyer they need it. In the end it's your responsibility to get that item there. Things like that do happen on the arena as well as anywhere else. This is why I no longer ship without everything included. If someone doesn't like the price don't buy. That package is going out with sig confirmation, insurance ect.

[goddessofpeep]

I'm a buyer, and here's what I feel is fair:

If I was given the option to purchase full insurance and refused it, it's all on me if the package gets lost, and I should eat the cost as long as the seller can prove they sent it when they said they did. 

If the seller decided on their own to send things in an insecure manner such as offering "free shipping" on ebay and then going cheap, or by switching out the secure shipping that was originally agreed on for a cheaper shipping for whatever reason(they got to the post office and the shipping was more than they expected, etc), it's on them and they should eat the cost.  They took the option of protecting the item out of the hands of the buyer, so they're responsible.

In those grey area situations where it's hard to assign blame, I'd take that on a case by case basis.  Possibly splitting the cost(buyer gets a half refund, that sort of thing), or working out some solution based on what can be agreed upon.

[Sebby6]

I'm with goddessofpeep.

It's one thing what paypal/ebay would say - we trade on here because we want to avoid their strict rules - well that's what I keep seeing people say anyway. So you can't have it both ways.

Buyer chose shipping with no insurance - seller is not responsible for item getting lost.

[shelti]

I always offer two shipping options over seas, International priority or First class parcel for members here
with a disclaimer and information letting the buyer know what comes or does not come with both options. 
It's then up to them to choose.  I do this with repeat buyers also so there is no doubt about  the shipping, what's involved and what their choice entails.

[NoDivision]

I'm a buyer, and here's what I feel is fair:

If I was given the option to purchase full insurance and refused it, it's all on me if the package gets lost, and I should eat the cost as long as the seller can prove they sent it when they said they did. 

If the seller decided on their own to send things in an insecure manner such as offering "free shipping" on ebay and then going cheap, or by switching out the secure shipping that was originally agreed on for a cheaper shipping for whatever reason(they got to the post office and the shipping was more than they expected, etc), it's on them and they should eat the cost.  They took the option of protecting the item out of the hands of the buyer, so they're responsible.

In those grey area situations where it's hard to assign blame, I'd take that on a case by case basis.  Possibly splitting the cost(buyer gets a half refund, that sort of thing), or working out some solution based on what can be agreed upon.

I definitely agree with this and it's the way I think as well, but unfortunately there's still a problem. How can someone know, as a seller, that the buyer is going to be reasonable? If they ask for cheap shipping they might be willing to accept the loss as their own, or they might not. They might even agree upon sale that if something goes wrong, they won't blame the seller. But, sadly, we have people be unreasonable or go back on their word all the time. They can swear up and down that they'll take the loss if something goes wrong, but at the end of the day, they still have a paypal claim button at their dispoal. People keep mentioning ebay as if it's only ebay transactions that paypal oversees, but it's not. A paypal claim may be filed for any transaction not sent as a personal payment.

The arena community is great and the staff do an amazing job with regulating trader issues, but the rules and suggestions for selling and trading here are not enforceable beyond repercussions on the arena. So the mods can certainly ban a member, but they can't physically go into someone's paypal account and make them give you your money back, or what have you. And when it comes right down to it and the package is lost or damaged it doesn't matter what agreement the parties had going into it - it matters what paypal's policies are.

Yes, if the buyer willingly chooses a cheaper shipping method that doesn't cover them and their items, it absolutely should fall on the buyer to take the loss. Sadly, paypal doesn't agree. If the package is lost or damaged if the sale went through Paypal and the buyer files a claim, the seller will lose out. You will have to refund the buyer and if your insurance doesn't cover the full cost paid, you'll be refunding out of pocket.  It's a shame that a few bad apples can spoil the batch, so to speak, but arena members get burned all the time. So unfortunately I've found that you have to cover your bases on the front end of the transaction or be prepared for a possible mess at the end :\ I generally just brace myself for a mess, haha. Luckily it very very very rarely happens to me because I do business with wonderful people, but there are transactions I enter into knowing that if something goes wrong I could be screwed over. So I just have to learn to be okay with that and hope for the best.

[shelti]

You are so right No Division.
Sellers can be burned but if they ever want to do business with you as a seller again
then they will not burn that bridge.  And I think a seller can get a general feel for a buyer through the conversations they have with that buyer before a sale.  Yet again why I very seldom sell on ebay, I really love working with other collectors at the Arena

[NoDivision]

Yes, thankfully it is a much much much slimmer chance that someone here will do that. By and large things go smoothly here, but you never know! Luckily in the US it's fairly easy to cover your bases on expensive items, because shipping insurance is pretty cheap. You can add insurance to a package very cost effectively. I don't know how it works in other countries., though.

[shelti]

Yes, thankfully it is a much much much slimmer chance that someone here will do that. By and large things go smoothly here, but you never know! Luckily in the US it's fairly easy to cover your bases on expensive items, because shipping insurance is pretty cheap. You can add insurance to a package very cost effectively. I don't know how it works in other countries., though.

You are so right about domestic shipping.
They are now "Giving" up to $50.00 worth of insurance for Free on priority packages.
 And they wonder why they are in the Red.
I have noticed the Priority Flat Rate shipping has gone up recently for Domestic.

[Dyzarktarzk]

As a buyer mostly:

Generally I prefer the cheaper method, why?  Because by luck I've never have problems with it, and expensive takes almost the same as cheap to arrive.

If a seller only offers the expensive method, I'll try to understand that something happened to them to be wary of buyers (international mostly) that made them be wary and more cautious of them, when not blocking international sales at all.  And then, it'll be my decision if I go with the expensive of search for other item with cheaper shipping.

As a seller:

I'll cover my back first.  With arena outside sales, I'll only offer the method that cover me in all aspects, even if it is really expensive.  Why?  I don't want to deal with possible buyers arguing pony not received, or that it was damaged in transit.  Better be safe than worry.

[HoustonCollector72]

I think both as buyer and seller  there  is always accountability  on both ends, the best way is to be covered, I like to use the priority service , is now insured for 50 dllrs included ,and unless is a very small item, then saving a couple of dollars is not a big deal, and just not sure why people stay use the package services even though the difference is so small, and the benefits on one over the other is so significant,
package services take longer and is not insured unless you pay extra, and it takes longer to reach the destination so more risks that it can get lost or damage
priority takes 2 or 3 days ,it is insured already , no extras .

still there is people using the other one

same thing with International , the Priority International service is faster and the price difference is not that much .