I cant even see blind bag G4s let alone customize them.

Hats off to your elf/gnome skills for even attempting such an endeavor.

I will henceforth refer to myself as the Pony Gnome! 

I used to paint tabletop gaming miniatures ages ago.  A standard human figure was about an inch high.  Once you get used to the scale, you could even add eyes and pupils on the things.

Mind you, I'm a lot older now so eyes on a 2 inch high rubber horse is much more challenging than it used to be.  I'll post some of my Nerd Herd when I get 'em finished.

I have a question not entirely on topic here you might know something about so i hope you dont mind my asking.

There is an underlying issue when it comes to painting and i've bought some customs that reached the end of their life and the paint had separated from the pony presumably due to leaking plasticizer. So far i have shunned painting any pony until i understand this better, and your ideal view of plastic outliving you is simply not reality because up to half the mass is not stable pvc but a myriad of complex unstable materials including plasticizer, sometimes uv inhibitors and fire retardants and who knows what else, all of which varies from one pony to the next. Sealing in vaccuum doesnt stop these things from oozing out, breaking down and/or combining to form other things etc over time.

My question is: what paint so securely bonds to the pvc that it can survive this process without detaching and failing? Is there such a paint?


Thanks!

Argh!  That's a good point.  I guess  I was referring to the acrylic itself surviving you.  I've only worked with modern (hopefully slightly more stable) blindbag ponies.  On the other hand the oldest of those is, what, 7 years old?  Mere babies compared to some old 80's ponies.

I did a bit of digging and found out most toys were, and still are, painted with "pvc industrial plastic paint".  It's so durable that it's you can still find old toys in near pristine condition.  Trouble is, the stuff is so toxic when wet that it's banned in most countries (including the USA and likely Canada too).  When dry it's harmless.  So while that's ideal, it's out for home use.

From digging about, the ideal mix would be artist grade acrylic paint, or barring that, a hobby grade acrylic designed for gaming miniatures with a few drops of raw liquid latex mixed in.  If you can't get raw latex, acrylic medium will work too.  If you use folk art paints you will want to use a primer layer first, then seal the ponies afterwards.

Nothing painted will last forever, but there are some things I dug up that can help.

Before painting, prepare a warm water bath for your figures that includes a good glug of rubbing alcohol in it.  This should help remove oils and help your paint stick.  If the figure is sticky to start with, you can wet a paper towel or cloth down with hydrogen peroxide (the sort you buy at the drug store for cuts) and give your sticky pony a good scrub with that.  In any case let it dry overnight and see if it's sticky at all.  Repeat if it is.  (I'm working on an old, damaged Thundercats figure with sticky legs right now using this method. Panthro has had his bath and is getting his legs treated tonight.)

Next give it a primer coat.  I use an artist grade white paint and give the ponies a light coat all over.  Let that dry at least for several hours.

Never, ever use enamels (testors paints in those little glass bottles, nail polish and so on) as it will erode soft plastic and rubber and make stickiness issues worse. If you want a shiny pony, give it a top coat of gloss polyurethane.

I guess nothing will make a painted pony last like the pyramids, but this should help.  Or just enjoy the ponies au naturel.  No shame in NOT modding.

Post Merge: April 09, 2017, 07:36:41 PM

Come to think on it, the only paint I've ever had simply peel off a pony was Glidden's Gripper  primer that was supposed to stick to anything, so there's irony for you. I'd bought it to use as a primer so I could use spray paint on a G3 (at the time, spray paint would melt pony plastic; I assume they've reformulated their paints so it doesn't any more, given that LoveLauraLand uses it on many of her customs with gorgeously stunning results).

Here's something fun for a Sunday afternoon:

DO NOT, for the love of tiny rubber horses, DO NOT ever use any automotive paint sprays on your ponies.  I used to do tech support.  Once a kid called in complaining that his computer case had completely melted and warped.  Turns out he painted it a "cool colour" with sparkly automotive spray paint.  That stuff is for fiberglass and metal, not plastic of any sort. 

Unless of course you're looking to make a post apocalyptic melted nuclear pony.  Then go nuts.

What if you seal it with Acrylic Paint sealer? That migh stop the dye from fading.

Acrylic paint sealer is meant to protect the top layer of a painting from dirt or dust, and to a lesser extent to keep the paint stuck on the surface it's painted onto.  It might help a bit with fading, but nothing will stop the inevitable. 

I did a "window test" with marker ink: stripes of marker on paper taped so it faces out on a sunny window, for a day or so.  One I sealed, one as it was originally.  Both faded, but the coated one was brighter.  Not a lot brighter, but still it was something.  I was hoping that the coating would somehow "turn" the ink into a plastic or an acrylic paint.  I was wrong because I didn't understand the underlying problem with ink.

The curse is that it's not the medium that makes acrylic paint so durable - it's the stuff that gives it colour in the first place.  Any paint or ink that gets it's colour from dyes or "colourants" fades faster than paint that uses a pigment base.  The acrylic medium is just the suspension that lets you paint with it.


Again, ink on a pony is not "instant death".  It will just fade much faster than pigment will.

Post Merge: April 07, 2017, 06:46:04 AM

I try to get my ponies signed with Micron artist-grade archival inking pens, would that be equivalent to Staedtler you think?

sakuraofamerica.com states the ink is "pigment based", so I would venture to say... yes?

Microns are nice inking pens.  I don't use 'em because I have a tendency to press down with everything like I'm engraving the darn drawing into my desk.  It's my bad habit.  Microns have a softer felt in their tips  than Staedtler seems to.  My poor microns end up like teeny brush pens when I'm done with 'em.  But that's an issue with ME, not the pens themselves.

Thanks Motion-Paradox!  I've been keeping my pony mutating ways clear of any you mentioned.  Mostly I'm getting baits from china.  I'll take your advice to heart.


And THAT'S IT I'M MOVING TO WHERE 'SQUIRMY LIVES SO I CAN GET CHEAP SECOND HAND BLINDBAG PONIES!!!!


The addiction is real.

On my travels through some pony modding sites I came across a couple suggestions on retouching/modding ponies that I found concerning.  I thought I'd post my rant about what I found here.

Why Dyes Will Fade
Some pony preservation/restoration sites suggested using dye (such as RIT) or "artists markers" (such as Prismacolor or Copic) to colour or touch up ponies.  They all mentioned that some have noticed issues with the dyes fading.  I hate to be "that guy", but having worked in the illustration field I can tell you from experience that all dyes and inks WILL fade over time.  Also, don't use markers on ponies unless you want the colour to fade and eventually bleed.  And here's why:

It's SCIENCE! if Science was an 80's cartoon...
Ever noticed how dyes and marker ink looks so brilliant?  The colour just bounces off the page, and your ponies.  The thing that makes dyes so attractive, effective, and bright is the same thing that will eventually make them fade.

If you remember your high school physics, you'll know that regular white light (sunlight) is made up of a spectrum of coloured rays.  An object appears blue because it reflects those parts of white light that appear blue to us.  Light, as weird as this sounds, is a physical thing.  Without getting too much into waves and particles, just think of light as being made of photons - small packets of light, like little glowing glass beads.

Hold that thought.

All paint or ink can be more or less sorted into two categories: dye based or pigment based.

Dyes are by their nature a liquid.  Inside that liquid is a suspension of extremely tiny particles that give it it's colour.  These tiny particles make dyes so vibrant.  It's the same reason a gem cut with many sides sparkles more than a gem with fewer sides.  More particles, more points of light bounced back. Dyes also soak into a lot of surfaces well because their coloured bits are so fine.  Dyes are found in, well, dyes, markers, inks and most alcohol based colours. 

Pigment based paint is made from ground substances suspended in something to make them spreadable.  Many of them come from minerals or earth (Burnt Sienna is - okay, in most cases - actually made from baked earth found near Sienna, Italy).  The bits are microscopic but much larger than those found in dyes.  Pigment based paint can be pretty brilliant, but less so than their dye cousins.  They also don't sink into materials as readily.  Pigment based colours will always stay to some extent on the surface of an object or cloth.  Most acrylic paint, oil paint and some "acrylic inks" (which are just really fine pigment that mimics ink) are pigment based.

Remember how I said to think of light as a stream of tiny glass beads?  Imagine billions of tiny glass beads bombarding an object at the speed of light.  Colour particles in paint and dyes eventually flake away under this pounding.  All paints of any sort fade over time, but the smaller particles flake off first.  This is why markers and dyes fade so easily.  This is also why pigments tend to be far more durable.

Artists markers are designed for use on materials that will go straight to print.  They're ideal for any work where the original isn't as important as their copies are.  Yellow markers in particular are made from a dye so fine that they are known to leach into surrounding surfaces.  I would never use markers of any sort on a pony for that reason.  They fade at a terrific rate. They're meant to live fast, die young, and make great looking temporary art.


DON'T PANIC (written in large, friendly letters)[/b]

I don't mean to say that any pony you have dyed is doomed.

No custom should ever be kept in direct sunlight, obviously.  Dyed ponies will keep their best in an unlit cabinet, or stored in boxes and displayed only on special occasions (or rotated with the seasons so they take the least amount of light damage but still can be enjoyed.  Pigment painted horses can take light, but even the best can't handle direct sunlight. 

One thing that may keep your dyed ponies better longer is to coat them with a few layers of thinned clear acrylic medium.  I did a test with marker ink, and paper that was treated after colouring with a few coats of this stayed nicer longer when hung in direct sun.  This probably works by holding down those delicate coloured particles longer.  You can get this at most art supply stores.

Another option might be to try a water-clean up polyurethane as a top coat.  They use this to protect vinyl decals on wood and it should help.  It's available at most hardware stores and comes in a matt or gloss format.  Polyurethane also has some limited UV protective properties too.

I've never found any way to prevent marker bleed.  The best advice I can give is NOT to use markers for any reason on a pony.


Lastly, The Ink That Isn't Ink
The one exception to all this is genuine India ink, or ink that states it's made with "carbon black" or "lamp black".  Carbon is a highly durable pigment, and can be ground finely enough to work like an ink.  You may want to mix it with a little acrylic medium to get it to stick to a pony though.  NOTE: Coloured India inks are NOT made with pigments and are all dyes.

The Obligatory But My Dyed Pony Hasn't Faded Answer
Hold on there, partner!  A dyed pony won't suddenly poof into an off white pony.  The difference we're talking about is years of looking perfect vs potential centuries of looking perfect.  Plastic will likely outlive western civilization.  A pony coloured with pigment paints, sealed and kept in a dry location out of direct sunlight could stay pristine long after I'm dust.  I want your mods to be handed down to collectors for decades and for your hard work to appreciated for as long as possible.  If you want to dye your ponies, go ahead.  I'm sure it'll look great.  AND you could always re-mod it later should the worst happen.  I'm just here to mention the risks.


Lastly Lastly: if this is true, where's my pile of coloured dust around my faded ponies??!!
These particles are small, I mean microscopic and then some small.  Some break into even smaller particles. Most of the dislodged particles float off in the air.  Some become part of the dust in your home.  Some get carried off when you touch a figure.  Some decay after dislodging and become base chemicals and loose atoms.  These are so small that you can't see the amount of coloured light they still reflect. So no, you can't put up a net and catch your loose colours 


In conclusion: TL;DR don't dye your ponies or use markers on them. They will  fade.  Fading bad.

I'm still plugging away here with customizing g4 blindbag ponies.  I'm learning a lot as I go.


Baking Fimo on Ponies
I read on a blog somewhere that you could bake fimo and other polymer clays right onto blind bag ponies.  For the most part it's true, however they can sag in the heat if you're not very careful.  I find that the minis that come with the sets (such as the Apple family sets) stand up better to heat than the standard rubber blindbag ponies.  That said, I've yet to turn one into a puddle.  However my attempt at a Cheerilee revamp has a bit of a droopy head right now.  I guess her heavy mane weighed down her head and her neck bent a bit.  She still looks okay though and I'll post her when she's painted up.

So, as a rule of thumb, don't keep your ponies in the oven longer than 5-8 minutes.  Baking them on a sheet of parchment paper (the kind you bake cookies on) helps too.

Also, if you plan on making polymer clay attachments for the ponies - hats and capes and whatever - don't leave them in the raw state on the pony overnight.  This causes the paint underneath to get... weird.  Eventually this weird, soggy paint can peel off.  An Applejack pony paid the price for my mistake.  Curse you, Applejack's Hat!!!


Removing Paint from BlindBag Ponies
I find pure acetone is the best thing for this.  You can paint with acrylics right overtop of the old paint, but it builds up and you can obliterate finer details doing this.  However don't do what I did and immerse them in the stuff for more than a minute.  It can eat away at the plastic itself.  I find you can get most of the paint off with an old toothbrush and/or paper towels moistened in acetone.  I wear an eye protector when using acetone as it could spray upwards when using a toothbrush and I'd like to keep my vision.  You can get these goggles at any hardware store.

Acetone also bleaches the ponies a bit.  If you're going to repaint the entire pony this isn't a problem.  If you're trying to keep the original colour of the rubber for the body, then you might want to be extra careful with paint removal.

Always wash your ponies with a non-oily detergent (dish soap works well) and water, then dry thoroughly, before painting.  After an acetone treatment the ponies may feel a little gummy.  This goes away after a bath, a good toweling off, and about an hour or two to fully dry out.


I'll post actual images when I get the last batch painted up.

The Last Unipony is adorable!