The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: toyjunky on February 06, 2023, 10:23:24 PM

Title: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: toyjunky on February 06, 2023, 10:23:24 PM
It's been awhile since I have logged in to the arena, just been busy with a lot of RL stuff. Do we have any news or updates about new Basic Fun G1 Retro ponies for this year?
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: achab1984 on February 25, 2023, 12:59:41 PM
I have been wondering the very same thing!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: NanoRuby on February 25, 2023, 01:02:05 PM
I sent an email to them a couple weeks ago with some questions about the fancy swirl ponies, and while the person who responded couldn't answer any of my questions, it at least still sounded like those are going to be released. Which is good, I'm still disappointed about the flower fantasy ponies.

I think the only 40th anniversary stuff out at the moment is the plushes
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: StrawberryScoops on February 25, 2023, 02:25:11 PM
I found the 40th anniversary Collector ponies at Toys R Us in Canada today. The boxes are cute but the ponies are the same as 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on February 26, 2023, 08:33:58 AM
I found the 40th anniversary Collector ponies at Toys R Us in Canada today. The boxes are cute but the ponies are the same as 5 years ago.

So they don't have the "40" symbols that were shown in promo photos after all? Damn, that's a shame - I know a lot of people thought they looked tacky/lame, but I liked the altered symbols - okay, they WERE silly looking, but I appreciated there being some obvious way to differentiate them from the previous BF release. :( I wanted to get 40th Cotton Candy to add to my CC army.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: shabbychicdee on February 28, 2023, 06:52:24 PM
I found the 40th anniversary Collector ponies at Toys R Us in Canada today. The boxes are cute but the ponies are the same as 5 years ago.
So they don't have the "40" symbols that were shown in promo photos after all? Damn, that's a shame - I know a lot of people thought they looked tacky/lame, but I liked the altered symbols - okay, they WERE silly looking, but I appreciated there being some obvious way to differentiate them from the previous BF release. :( I wanted to get 40th Cotton Candy to add to my CC army.

ditto :D same here and oh yes of course my OCD must have a 40th edition to me CC collection :lol:

oh are those plushys out now?
btw good something is showing up, iv been wondering too if anything was out
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: PinkRosedust on April 17, 2023, 06:17:39 PM
Bumping because I came back after a bit of time thinking I'd see some news. Anyone heard anything?
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Ponyfan on April 17, 2023, 07:11:48 PM
Here's the thread about the plush.

https://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=404371.0


Ponyfan
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on April 21, 2023, 01:13:11 AM
Three of the four Celestial Ponies have listings on Amazon now (not active yet though).  :)  Though they are using pictures of custom ponies for some reason (maybe as placeholders while the "real" photos are finalized?) so just be aware that the poses and colors may vary from the finished product.

Although only three ponies are listed, the description confirms that it's a set of four ponies.  They are listed at $14.99 USD each. :)  I have heard that this set will be sold in Fall 2023.  But in any case it appears it is definitely going to come out!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Crystal-Sushi on April 23, 2023, 05:50:01 AM
Three of the four Celestial Ponies have listings on Amazon now (not active yet though).  :)  Though they are using pictures of custom ponies for some reason (maybe as placeholders while the "real" photos are finalized?) so just be aware that the poses and colors may vary from the finished product.

Although only three ponies are listed, the description confirms that it's a set of four ponies.  They are listed at $14.99 USD each. :)  I have heard that this set will be sold in Fall 2023.  But in any case it appears it is definitely going to come out!

They're using customsbypandabear's custom photos, and apparently didn't ask her in any way :enraged:

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Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 26, 2023, 12:31:31 PM
Thank you for sharing this crystal :(

Love pkw xxx
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on April 26, 2023, 02:43:37 PM
That's disgusting :/

Plus it's just stupid and misleading, aren't Basic Fun's version in different poses and such? It's gonna be the Running Press Firefly thing all over again... but yeah... very Not Cool of them to steal a custom photo :(
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Flitter on April 26, 2023, 05:01:38 PM
It’s possibly more someone at Amazon’s fault than Basic Fun.
I’ve been seeing that a lot with Rainbow High lately that early classified mock up images are being posted as listings months before release date. Even with obvious watermarks across them. That image might have been something they showed retailers as an example of what they were trying to do or used as a reference to show their designers the idea. Still bad to steal but I bet that wasn’t intended by basic fun to be used in that listing at all. The customizer it right to be frustrated but the Celestial Pony designs are Hasbro’s. So, for her to say that BF’s designs are too close to hers is a little unwarranted imo because, like her and BF are using the same source image. I’ve seen the Basic Fun protos in a video and don’t really see them as exact copies.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 26, 2023, 05:22:45 PM
That's disgusting :/

Plus it's just stupid and misleading, aren't Basic Fun's version in different poses and such? It's gonna be the Running Press Firefly thing all over again... but yeah... very Not Cool of them to steal a custom photo :(

The prototypes we have seen so far are of two of the Celestial ponies. The blue pony in Tootsie pose and the dark pink pony in Posey pose.

https://mlparena.com/index.php?topic=403834.0

Love pkw xxx
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Ponyfan on April 26, 2023, 07:16:15 PM
Whoever's at fault for stealing the picture of the customs and using it on Amazon without permission, I feel sorry for the customizer. :(  It's not fun to find out someone is using your photo and didn't ask first.  I had that happen to me once, but I think it was an honest mistake on the other person's part as when I confronted them about it, they immediately apologized and said they had gotten it from a website but couldn't remember exactly where. They also quit using the photo after that.  To be fair, I wouldn't have minded that they used it if they had asked me first and I hadn't found out the way I did.

All that being said, I'm still looking forward to seeing the Basic Fun Celestial ponies and hope we get to see the real pics soon.


Ponyfan
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on April 27, 2023, 04:36:15 AM
yeah, I was wondering if it was an error on Amazon's part too - or if maybe whoever put up the listing just googled for an image and used it without bothering to check if it was what they actually wanted it - sad to say it wouldn't be the first time I've seen THAT happen.

I'm not necessarily blaming Basic Fun for it; like Flitter I was wondering if it was a case of "we were using this for inspiration/a general proof of concept/etc, and whoops, it got put into the wrong folder and now Amazon have it". which if that's the case... I'm not annoyed that they've *seen* the customs, you know? hell, if I was at BF I'd probably have gone looking for fan interpretations of the designs too - see if there's actually interest in them being made, get some inspiration, etc... I'm just annoyed Pandabear's photo wound up on Amazon! :/
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 27, 2023, 05:52:03 AM
I'm confused as to why Amazon would do that? Considering BF has perfectly good images of their own product.

Then again,  I've seen Amazon use a place holder photo of a beauty product for an upcoming Transformer toy.

Post Merge: April 27, 2023, 05:58:20 AM

yeah, I was wondering if it was an error on Amazon's part too - or if maybe whoever put up the listing just googled for an image and used it without bothering to check if it was what they actually wanted it - sad to say it wouldn't be the first time I've seen THAT happen.

I'm not necessarily blaming Basic Fun for it; like Flitter I was wondering if it was a case of "we were using this for inspiration/a general proof of concept/etc, and whoops, it got put into the wrong folder and now Amazon have it". which if that's the case... I'm not annoyed that they've *seen* the customs, you know? hell, if I was at BF I'd probably have gone looking for fan interpretations of the designs too - see if there's actually interest in them being made, get some inspiration, etc... I'm just annoyed Pandabear's photo wound up on Amazon! :/

This is going to make people mad, and I'm not trying to make people mad, just putting out an observation.

It's kind of odd to me, tbh that people will get riled about the company using photos of fanart or a custom of an official toy or character.

Yet they're doing the exact same thing and the company has graciously not issued a C&D. Even if they've made money on commissions by recreating a pony that wasn't available in their customer's country, as an example.

I mean no offense to any customizers by saying this.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on April 27, 2023, 06:55:20 AM
I agree with Leave A Whisper.

I would have felt honored and not have made a fuss about it. After all, you are using someone's existing IP.

On a bit of a side note, it's just amazing that the retro line has been going for 5 years now!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pinkkittywinks on April 27, 2023, 08:31:12 AM

Then again,  I've seen Amazon use a place holder photo of a beauty product for an upcoming Transformer toy.


Really? :wow: I rarely use Amazon so I didn't know that this sort of thing happened. Is it a regular occurrence?

Love pkw xxx
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 27, 2023, 08:34:59 AM

Then again,  I've seen Amazon use a place holder photo of a beauty product for an upcoming Transformer toy.


Really? :wow: I rarely use Amazon so I didn't know that this sort of thing happened. Is it a regular occurrence?

Love pkw xxx

I don't know if it's a regular occurrence? I'm just saying that I have seen them use an unrelated product for a completely different listing for something not out yet. I think it's kind of amusing tbh.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on April 28, 2023, 09:07:25 AM
It's a tricky thing, certainly... the legalities/moralities/etc of selling fanart. I'm not great at debates for stuff like this, and I don't want to start a big fuss or anything, but I'll try and explain my thoughts on it...

I think the big difference is that usually fan creations are small run, the creator isn't making too much money off them. If a big company steals their art then they're likely to make 300x the cash. It might be the company's IP but it's still not their art... art theft is wrong. Especially in this day and age, where it's easier than ever to get in touch with people. I've seen some "powers that be" contact fanartists and arrange deals to sell things with their fanart and such -  I think that's how that WeLoveFine site works. I know a lot of the Adventure Time comic artists were approached because of their fanart. THAT is how you do it IMO.

I don't think it's an "honour" to have your stuff stolen. Derivative or not, the artist still put a lot of time, work and effort into the piece.

(To clarify, I'm speaking in general here. I disagree that Basic Fun "copied" Pandabear's customs - they're both working off the same design, of course there's going to be some similarities. now if the customs in particular were VERY interpretive - if they had some specific detail that wasn't present in the original Hasbro art, but was in both the custom and Basic Fun's version - then I'd understand, but as it is... of course the official take on the design is going to look similar to a "Hasbro-match" custom, especially customs as dead-on as PB's ;)
It wouldn't surprise me if they'd looked at multiple custom Celestials for inspiration etc, I think that's fine. It's just crummy that a custom photo ended up on an official listing - I'm sure it was an honest mistake and nothing sinister was meant by it - it's just lame, and it's misleading/false advertising! hardly the first time they've put up the wrong image... but there's a difference between an obvious error [beauty product for TF], a prototype being used for the stock images, and them using a photo of a completely different pony! :P)

edit: Oh wow I just saw the pics on Amazon have been edited to remove the background - I'd been assuming they were using the actual original photo that was posted earlier in the thread - so someone actually went out of their way to make these look like proper stock photos... Yeesh....
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on April 29, 2023, 02:09:52 AM
If anything, BF messed up by making me disappointed that we probably won't be getting a Celestial with the Gingerbread Pose, especially because I hate Tootsie pose and therefore probably won't even debox the Tootsie pose Celestials lol

Actually I much prefer a lot of what PB did over Basic Fun! Don't get me wrong, I love the BF Celestials and I am DYING to get my hands on them, but PB's interpretation looks more aesthetically consistent with the era in which they were meant to be released by Hasbro (I think year nine or ten?) while the BF Celestials look more consistent with earlier waves in a way that feels sort of anachronistic because of the darker colors and especially the much shorter manes.

Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: xCharx on April 29, 2023, 08:47:25 AM
It’s possibly more someone at Amazon’s fault than Basic Fun.
I’ve been seeing that a lot with Rainbow High lately that early classified mock up images are being posted as listings months before release date. Even with obvious watermarks across them. That image might have been something they showed retailers as an example of what they were trying to do or used as a reference to show their designers the idea. Still bad to steal but I bet that wasn’t intended by basic fun to be used in that listing at all. The customizer it right to be frustrated but the Celestial Pony designs are Hasbro’s. So, for her to say that BF’s designs are too close to hers is a little unwarranted imo because, like her and BF are using the same source image. I’ve seen the Basic Fun protos in a video and don’t really see them as exact copies.

But at that toy show, two of Basic Fun's Celestial ponies were in the same pose the customizer chose for the ponies. To me that's a very close match which wasn't necessary. Because the concept art from Hasbro is just drawings showing the ponies in non-existing poses, right? So I can understand the customizer is upset not just about their pictures being on Amazon but also about the Basic Fun ones being so similar.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 29, 2023, 09:06:27 AM
It’s possibly more someone at Amazon’s fault than Basic Fun.
I’ve been seeing that a lot with Rainbow High lately that early classified mock up images are being posted as listings months before release date. Even with obvious watermarks across them. That image might have been something they showed retailers as an example of what they were trying to do or used as a reference to show their designers the idea. Still bad to steal but I bet that wasn’t intended by basic fun to be used in that listing at all. The customizer it right to be frustrated but the Celestial Pony designs are Hasbro’s. So, for her to say that BF’s designs are too close to hers is a little unwarranted imo because, like her and BF are using the same source image. I’ve seen the Basic Fun protos in a video and don’t really see them as exact copies.

But at that toy show, two of Basic Fun's Celestial ponies were in the same pose the customizer chose for the ponies. To me that's a very close match which wasn't necessary. Because the concept art from Hasbro is just drawings showing the ponies in non-existing poses, right? So I can understand the customizer is upset not just about their pictures being on Amazon but also about the Basic Fun ones being so similar.

I agree that it was Amazon that screwed up the picture instead of asking to be provided by the ones from Basic Fun.

Those ponies were supposed to come out, Hasbro did have prototypes of the originals shown off, and they probably instructed BF to use some of those moulds. BF has also only done a handful of Earth Pony moulds. And what are among them? Gingerbread,  Posey, Tootsie. So I don't see the point in crying foul over them reusing the poses they've already made.

People literally begged for this set to be made.  Let's not screw up future releases for the rest of the community by throwing a hissy fit over designs that were copied from official art. Because that's rather hypocritical and frankly it would make us look super ungrateful.

Finally, I have seen big companies shut down fan projects for far less then making profit, as is their legal right to protect their ip.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on April 29, 2023, 01:36:48 PM
Basic Fun only have so many moulds to use in the first place?? Why wouldn't they use those common poses? Of course there's going to be some overlap when two parties are making interpretations of the SAME THING.

To me this argument is like... if Basic Fun made some alt-pose ponies and someone went "OMG they made a Rearing Pose Applejack, they ripped me off!!" or if they made babies for a pony that didn't originally have one (say, Baby Nachtlicht) and people that had made custom versions complained. When you're using Hasbro designs and Hasbro moulds, you kinda have to expect similarities.

(I just pulled random names/poses out of a hat BTW, I've never seen a rearing AJ, if you've made one, I am not taking a crack at you... But if you have made one then I wanna see her! :P)

Now if they were knocking off a fan-original design... Like if they made a pony that was "very close" to (say) Flufflepuff. Or if someone had sculpted their own original mold with a very specific pose and then BF did a lookalike.... Then I would understand the fuss. Or, again, if the customs in question had some significant deviation from the original art, that BF had copied. But as it is, sorry but I think there's a bit of overreaction going on here. Come on, guys.

(Want to add - I love PB's customs, they're fantastic - I just don't see any copying going on here - just two interpretations of the same design. Which I've seen happen plenty of times with customs!! I've seen tons of Baby Nightlights, hell I OWN two, and I don't see anyone pointing fingers and saying they're knocking off each other.)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on April 29, 2023, 04:08:55 PM
Pandabear's customs are absolutely gorgeous,  she is way talented.

Those are some good points you brought up Carrehz.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on May 01, 2023, 05:54:49 PM
I posted in Out now and Coming soon, but here's this:
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It seems that gave them a kick in the pants.

I like the walking pose, so no complaints from me. :) I do wonder who was at fault for the initial mixup (you would have had to EDIT those photos to get the stock images used as placeholders...) but this seems to be fairly concrete as far as what we will get eventually. This is where we stand.

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Did anyone else see this yet?
https://www.amazon.com/My-Little-Pony-Anniversary-Collector/dp/B0BK22QV85 (https://www.amazon.com/My-Little-Pony-Anniversary-Collector/dp/B0BK22QV85)
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Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: brightberry on May 01, 2023, 06:06:16 PM
My guess about the stolen photo is that Amazon is using something like a "calling center" only their job is to put up product information. Whoever did it probably has a quota and just googled up the image not knowing it wasn't official. 


But I love these ponies and want them all!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: TheBeatlesPkmnFan42 on May 01, 2023, 06:30:20 PM
So happy to see their real stock photos! I hope there will be more places to order them from online besides Amazon.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Ponyfan on May 01, 2023, 07:22:46 PM
I'm glad they changed the photo. :D  That was my main complaint, that the customizer's photo was used without permission on Amazon not that Basic Fun copied the customizer's designs.

The other photo looks like the Rescue at Midnight Castle set, but a mock up of some kind as some of the ponies mentioned in the description aren't on the box?

Ponyfan
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 01, 2023, 10:04:29 PM
The ponies are all Earth ponies on the backcard and these are the Earth pony molds Basic Fun had at hand:

1. Collector Pose.
2. Applejack mold.
3. Seashell mold
4. Posey mold.
5. Tootsie mold.

The Gingerbread mold has vacant sockets in the head since she's a Twinkle Eye. At the Texas Toy Show, Basic Fun reps mentioned that this set was more expensive to produce than a 'regular' pony due to the manufacturing costs of the stripes and antenna. So they'll retail at $15 instead of $10 (which iirc is also what the Twinkle Eye set retailed for.)

Anyway, I'm really glad they put up the real pictures of them. The magenta one is a showstopper.

Now if they were knocking off a fan-original design... Like if they made a pony that was "very close" to (say) Flufflepuff.

One time I found a company that made bootleg inflatable cartoon mascots of MLP and Pokemon. The ponies were mostly the Mane Six, as you would expect, but they'd also made a balloon pony-version of Mettaton. The sexy robot from Undertale.  I was so baffled that I googled around and discovered they'd lifted someone's 2D art of Mettaton-pony from DeviantArt and then, for some reason, translated him into a ten foot tall balloon.  I don't know how the artist felt about it, but I found it absolutely hysterical.

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Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 01, 2023, 11:06:13 PM
Nice to finally see stock photos!

I don't hate them, but I do think they're much more boring than I would expect for such an anticipated release. The manes are way too short and I think the colors should have been a little lighter, maybe a pearl on the body or tinsel in the hair. A little sad the Flower Fantasy Ponies were cancelled in favor of these!

Still getting them, but definitely will be rehairs for me!

Also, why are the white one's marking so invisible lol? Much preferred the blue swirls on the prototype.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 03, 2023, 08:11:14 AM
I do wonder who was at fault for the initial mixup (you would have had to EDIT those photos to get the stock images used as placeholders...)

Yes, that was my question too, it's not like they just did a quick copy + paste... >_> And I'm a bit confused which one's Nova and which one's Aurora, given they're still using the stolen pic for Nova and they both have the same design.... argh x)

I think these would never live up to the hype, just BECAUSE they were so hotly anticipated. Everyone'll have their own ideas for how they should look and such.

Personally I LOVE them and I'm so excited for them to be released, can't wait!! I need them alllll <33

and ha, I've seen the Mettapony balloon before :P Such an odd bootleg. Some of the stuff bootleggers rip off is bonkers.

edit: Woop, I knew I was forgetting something. Yeah, I think that other listing must be a placeholder for the RaMC set. I hope we get a proper pic soon! <3 Soooo excited to get those.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on May 03, 2023, 11:27:30 AM
Haha, I feel the same Serena. I was never a huge fan of these designs. I like their silly antennae and I'll still buy them, but I'm more of a flower fantasy fan. Or even a color swirl I'd be more excited for. Just not my thing.

The short hair does bother me but hopefully upon seeing them irl I'll be more swayed. It would be cool to rehair these with tinsel, I think that would add to it.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Ponyfan on May 03, 2023, 07:04:26 PM
I do wonder who was at fault for the initial mixup (you would have had to EDIT those photos to get the stock images used as placeholders...)

Yes, that was my question too, it's not like they just did a quick copy + paste... >_> And I'm a bit confused which one's Nova and which one's Aurora, given they're still using the stolen pic for Nova and they both have the same design.... argh x)



In the Toy Fair Pics I think Auora was the white pony.  BF could have changed the names for the ponies at some point after the prototypes were finalized.  I didn't notice Amazon is still using the customizer's pic :(  I hope they change that soon.

The video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UFV-jemW24&ab_channel=xCanadensis) has so much GREAT info, seriously watch it if you have a minute! 

Yeah, I think the write-in campaign to Basic Fun a few years ago is how they learned about the Celestials!  In the video the Basic Fun rep said something like "We are listening when collectors, people who love the brand, write us notes".  Huuuuge thanks to everyone who wrote in, the community really made this happen!  (Well, the community plus Basic Fun!)  BIG THANK YOU to everyone who wrote in!  We did it!

The girl making the video also mentions that, even though she had a press pass to the event, most companies simply would not let her in their booths and some were rude about it . . . but Basic Fun welcomed her in and gave her a tour and were nice.  Which is an attitude that goes well with MLP and Care Bears. <3

The Basic Fun rep talked about how they are planning on Amazon being the main distributor, but the Target buyer hadn't come buy yet so possibly they would want them too.

The Celestial pony box is a very early mock up, so early that it doesn't even have pictures of ponies on the back.  But this is what the side looks like:

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So, I don't think the finished box will show the white pony four times (unless they REALLY want you to collect only her, lol), I think those are just placeholder pictures.  To me this suggests they will release the entire set of four ponies.

Here's the front of the box, isn't it lovely . . .

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 How do you see the pics on Amazon? I tried looking them up using anything I could think of and nothing comes up when I try (Lots of Basic Fun pony stuff does, just not these).  I wanted to see if the ponies have their names in the listings or if they all just say Celestial ponies.



Ponyfan
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 04, 2023, 12:55:06 AM

 How do you see the pics on Amazon? I tried looking them up using anything I could think of and nothing comes up when I try (Lots of Basic Fun pony stuff does, just not these).  I wanted to see if the ponies have their names in the listings or if they all just say Celestial ponies.



Ponyfan

You want to make sure to click the box on the side-bar that says "include sold out items" when you search! They'll show up as some of the first results once you check that box.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 04, 2023, 03:03:12 AM
Adding onto Serena's post - if you're looking at it on a phone or other mobile device, you'll need to switch to Desktop mode for that option to pop up. (At least, I've never been able to find the "include out of stock" button on the mobile layout)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Ponyfan on May 05, 2023, 06:56:25 PM
Thanks serena and Carrezh.  :)

It looks like the blue pony is Nova, the white on is Polaris and the dark pink/magenta pony is Aurora. I can't find the light pink pony on Amazon.


Ponyfan
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: shabbychicdee on May 07, 2023, 11:02:33 PM
Nice to finally see stock photos!

I don't hate them, but I do think they're much more boring than I would expect for such an anticipated release. The manes are way too short and I think the colors should have been a little lighter, maybe a pearl on the body or tinsel in the hair. A little sad the Flower Fantasy Ponies were cancelled in favor of these!

Still getting them, but definitely will be rehairs for me!

Also, why are the white one's marking so invisible lol? Much preferred the blue swirls on the prototype.
same here, i was thinking the same, tinsel in hair, pearl on body, i would put glitter on  the head thingy's.
if i can get them here in nz i will be customising them to look like how they should be, basic funs is totally boring looking.
im glad they improved on the stretch mark looking bodies though :lol:
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pandabear_chan on May 08, 2023, 02:00:45 AM
Hey dears,

Here's "the customizer" whose pictures have been used without permission by Basic Fun on Amazon. First I want to thank all the members here who support my point of view and support the defence of my rights as artist.

Well these customs have been done on the base of the known pictures back in 2016. At this time I debated with my close friend what would be the perfect poses for them based on the prerequisite to choose 4 Earth ponies (only the ones that have been used at this time in the sets with 4 ponies). So this set has been made in the way it is.

On mylittlewiki there was a note that Hasbro planned to make them in the poses that were taken by the Precious Pocket Ponies later (makes sense, these girls almost were released in the exact same body colors).

When Basic Fun planned to makes these ponies I absolutely agree with Lady Moondancer that they had just a limited choice of poses available. In my mind, they simply chose the most dynamic ones of these which are Tootsie and Posey. As they didn't have the other two poses of my sets at hand, (Gingerbread without TEs) I'm sure that's the only reason they didn't fully copy the set as mine.

I'm absolutely not happy that they chose to make Nova (blue) and Aurora (magenta) - according to their Amazon names - in exactly my poses. I understand that my ponies are just customs, which are fan-made and non-official toys but it clearly shows that this company has wasted absolutely no lifetime on design. They could have extremely easily swapped these two poses and no one would have said anything about it. But if you also look at the type and shape of the antennas, it's clear that they simply copied shamelessly. Good that they have no idea of the fancy gimmick of these.

I saw these ponies last year as part of the Toy fair article, and even then I figured they copied my designs. But okay, what do you want to do as a small artist against a company from the USA if you don't have the appropriate contacts to lawyers there?

The straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that my images from Deviantart were just extremely poorly cropped and taken for listings on Amazon for these ponies.
It was rumored on the part of some members that it was going to be a third party seller, but no, it was Basic Fun's ads. 

My custom pictures were used WHILE these ponies already existed either finished or in some sort of prototype status at Toy fair. Why couldn't these pictures be used right away?

Also, the communication with Basic Fun themselves (not even responding to my inquiry on their contact page but just because of my copyright infringement complaint officially through Amazon on 04/27) shows that they are not aware of any fault. They didn't even offered an apology.

I have therefore sent them a Cease and Desist Letter on 04.05. Enclosed is the link, for those interested (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15t6VGaHDRthzov45LZGujsHHxRppc_1b/view?usp=sharing). My address is blackened out here for privacy reasons. So far no reaction.

I understand that there is nothing I can do about the pony poses which is okay for me, but the fun really stops when using my images for wrong ads on Amazon and for third party UK sellers (see the C&DL).

Despite the hassle I hope everyone has fun with the ponies. Those who don't buy them out of solidarity get an extra big imaginary hug!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 08, 2023, 07:48:10 AM
....You're trying to C&D them for using Hasbro's designs?

I agree it's wrong for them to use your photos, but... you didn't create these designs, Pandabear. Hasbro did. Sorry, but I think you're overreacting. You can't copyright the idea of "this design in that pose".

I hope all of this doesn't scare Basic Fun off from making more original characters later.

(I'll probably get raked over the coals for this post, but oh well)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 08, 2023, 08:26:33 AM
They shouldn't have uploaded your photos, but the other complaints . . . I don't get.

You say they copied "your" designs, but Hasbro created the designs.  Even at that, with your customs and their set being based on the same backcard art, BF's interpretations are quite different from yours: the hues, the style /color of marbling, even the color of the blue one's hair is different.  And the molds are just mass-produced Hasbro pony poses.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on May 08, 2023, 09:11:42 AM
Wow this is taking on quite the proportions...

Asking them to take down the images (which would have been up only temporarily anyway, until they got the product pics out there) is one thing, but to claim they stole your overall design is where it goes off the rails.

From your C&D letter:
"But with their current apperance, it's pretty clear that you didn't just use my customs for inspiration. ln case you would have asked at the design stage of these ponies, if you can use my customs for inspiration, it would have been just fair."

No it isn't and no it wouldn't have been. First of all, unless you have concrete evidence, this is just speculation. Secondly, the only rights owner in this story is Hasbro.

Lastly, a C&D letter is a cautionary request. They don't owe the sender anything apart from complying with the request; I would have just accepted the gift of the 4 ponies because as it stands, if they take down any picture, you will be left with nothing. That 500$ claim can only be made once it becomes a legal case, which it can't if they take down the pics.

I hope this dies down fast and doesn't backfire on you.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 08, 2023, 09:26:15 AM
I was waiting to hear from Pandachan directly, I didn't want to make any comment without the actual person affected putting their tuppence into the barrel but.

I don't know who took the photos for the adverts. That's in poor taste.

But these are Hasbro's copyright.
BF have licensed the copyright to produce the ponies.
The poses are Hasbro's copyright.
The symbols are Hasbro's copyright.

The only thing that maybe isn't is the names, which may have been taken from collector customs, but reality is, nothing about these ponies belongs to anyone bar Hasbro. Even if they planned to use other poses, it's irrelevant.

So taking the custom photos for the adverts - that's not on at all. I support asking them to take down your images, because they have no right to use them.

I would strongly advise to step back from anything else. The risk is that it could backlash against the customiser because the copyright - thus all legal rights - is legitimately in Hasbro and BF's hands.

But given that these ponies are now due to come out, it would be easy for them to use their copyright authority to try and stop a customiser making unofficial versions of these ponies, and it could escalate.

I understand 100% that it's frustrating feeling that something you made has been appropriated. But it's the same as anything in a fan community.

Especially with something like this, where we know BF have limited adult poses, do not have access to the poses allegedly linked by Hasbro, for which we have no concrete proof because Hasbro frequently changed pose projections and plans even between promo material.

And, just to be blunt, if you use MLPWiki - which can be edited by anyone - as your basis for evidence, you already have a problem. You would need prototype photos from Hasbro to make that claim valid.

Asking people to not buy them 'in solidarity' is also, in my opinion, over the line.

As for Amazon, last I checked Medley was listed on Amazon UK as a type of phone case. I remember Gusty had an odd photo to begin with as well. Amazon's place holding is a bit...odd at times.

Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 08, 2023, 09:34:31 AM
The only thing that maybe isn't is the names, which may have been taken from collector customs,

Yeah, but even that's a pretty flimsy claim, given how the names they picked are all generic space words.

I hadn't thought about this having possible repercussions on customizers, but that's a very good point, Taffeta.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 08, 2023, 09:45:01 AM
I understand being upset, but Amazon has already removed your photo Panda. I really would advise you to retract that C&D letter, because :

1) These ponies while beautifully made by you, and with no assurance that they ever would have been Officially released in the future are not your designs or Intellectual Property.

2) Hasbro is a big, rich company. They have well-paid lawyers who can out-muscle and out-maneuver you legally. I don't think anyone here wants to see you get hit like that.

3) At best, they could simply choose to deny your request.  At worst, Hasbro themselves could come down not just on your head, but on the heads of any customizer who has ever made and sold an Official Pony that they can get their hands on. As well as Starlight Studios and HQG1C for manufacturing official moulds of ponies, dragons, wings, and accessories. This has farther possible consequences then you might think.


Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 08, 2023, 09:51:29 AM
Hasbro have let people do customs of MLPs using MLP designs and moulds for years.

They know it happens, but they haven't stepped in and stopped people selling them or making them -yet.

Something like this could very easily change their mind. We're not talking about a line long since dead, but something about to come out, where sales could theoretically be impacted. Especially if people are asking for people to boycott 'in solidarity'. That's a direct conflict of commercial interest which Hasbro or BF may take notice of - hopefully not.

@LAW, I thought of that, too. If Hasbro got actively involved in this it would have consequences for a lot of customisers. HQG1C are at the forefront of that.

If it were an original character or a sculpted mould that had been copied, I'd feel differently. But there is literally nothing in these ponies that isn't copyrighted to Hasbro.

And I also believe the celestial ponies have been reinterpreted by so many ponypeople over the years that they really don't belong to one of us. BF are just the latest to interpret them.

I am 100% behind getting the images removed however. Whatever I think about the copyright/designs of these, taking the pictures and using them was not on.

Just better to pull back on the design issue.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 08, 2023, 10:30:02 AM
It really does worry me that this might have far-reaching repercussions. Hasbro are honestly VERY easygoing and generous with us (I don't think "generous" is quite the word I want, but I can't think of a better one x_x) when it comes to customs. I mean, they have to know about HQG1C by now. The only time they've EVER stepped in is when things start affecting them. Like that G4 fighting game that got shut down, I think the consensus there was that that was getting too "big" for a fangame? And I believe back in the day they asked Aikarin (I think?) to take down some of their custom images because they were toeing the line too much - IIRC they didn't even have a problem with the customs in general, they just didn't like the ones that were in custom packaging, since that was deemed too "close" to Hasbro's own product.

They've always been happy to let our customs and other fanprojects coexist with their official stuff... I really hope that doesn't change. This just feels like poking the hornets' nest IMO :s The indirect call for a boycott in particular stood out to me. These are Hasbro's designs!!

And just to reiterate, I am and always have been wholeheartedly against the use of PB's photos, that's just not on at all. But everything else, sorry, I just see more harm than good coming out of all of this.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on May 08, 2023, 10:41:48 AM
It really does worry me that this might have far-reaching repercussions. Hasbro are honestly VERY easygoing and generous with us (I don't think "generous" is quite the word I want, but I can't think of a better one x_x) when it comes to customs. I mean, they have to know about HQG1C by now. The only time they've EVER stepped in is when things start affecting them. Like that G4 fighting game that got shut down, I think the consensus there was that that was getting too "big" for a fangame? And I believe back in the day they asked Aikarin (I think?) to take down some of their custom images because they were toeing the line too much - IIRC they didn't even have a problem with the customs in general, they just didn't like the ones that were in custom packaging, since that was deemed too "close" to Hasbro's own product.

They've always been happy to let our customs and other fanprojects coexist with their official stuff... I really hope that doesn't change. This just feels like poking the hornets' nest IMO :s The indirect call for a boycott in particular stood out to me. These are Hasbro's designs!!

And just to reiterate, I am and always have been wholeheartedly against the use of PB's photos, that's just not on at all. But everything else, sorry, I just see more harm than good coming out of all of this.

I don't see this having far-reaching consequences for the community.

The letter wasn't written by a lawyer's office, that's one thing. The content is a little bit all over the place; which diminishes the possible impact on the receiver even more. And Hasbro does benefit indirectly from small artists' work because it keeps their brand name out there. If the entire community were to rally behind pandabear and boycot the sales, that could make a difference.

I believe HQG1C has express permission from Hasbro? Please do correct me if I'm getting this wrong.
And the take-down of the G4 fighting game was - if I remember correctly - because the label of "fighting is magic" didn't gell with their image for the brand.

I do see Hasbro's legal team sending a C&D to pandabear's customizing business, instigated by her trying to lay claim to someone else's IP.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 08, 2023, 11:09:48 AM
I'm not aware of HQG1C having permission from Hasbro - I was under the impression they didn't have it - but I could be wrong. I admit I've heard multiple things about why they shut down Fighting is Magic. I think it might've been a combo of things; I've seen lots of things that go against MLP's "image", but none that were getting quite as much media (etc) attention as the fighting game. I know in the past when people have talked about maybe promoting HQG1C more and such, there's been a lot of people on here saying we probably don't want to draw too much attention to it because of that.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 08, 2023, 11:25:47 AM
Carrehz is right, HQG1C definitely do not have Hasbro's permission.  It's like with the Third Party "Transformers" companies who make a robot named "Supernova Yell", but it's clearly Starscream. ;) But those at least make their own molds, HQG1C uses Hasbro molds which would probably put them even more at risk.

And yeah, my main concern would be that this could boomerang back on HQG1C, which relies on Hasbro ignoring them.  My anxiety is that Hasbro will decide "Well, the best defense (of our IP) is a good offense."

On a semi-related(?) note, Hasbro / Wizards of the Coast recently sent the Pinkertons (https://www.dicebreaker.com/categories/trading-card-game/news/magic-the-gathering-aftermath-youtube-prompts-pinkerton-investigation) (private investigators) after a Youtuber who got ahold of a Magic: The Gathering set before their official release date and unboxed them in a video.  I mean it got them bad press, but it shows the lengths they're willing to go to when they decide something is harming their brand.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on May 08, 2023, 11:45:07 AM
Really? That's interesting. I was under the impression they did because of how long it's been going, not to mention the amount of time (and money?) it must have cost to get it up and running.
Maybe Hasbro didn't care back in the day, but now that G1 is back it could be a risky business, yes.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 08, 2023, 12:05:04 PM
HQG1C have always been careful with how they go about things for exactly that reason... I remember when they first started, people asked if they'd do the Celestials and they specifically said they would NOT, because they didn't want to get in trouble for using those designs OR take away from the sales if Basic Fun did do them.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pinkkittywinks on May 08, 2023, 01:05:22 PM
My understanding the the C&D letter written by Panda to BF is the unauthorised use of her photographs on Amazon. This is summed up at the end of the letter written by Panda under "Artists Expectations". The likeness of two of Panda's customs to the two made by BF is a "furthermore", rather than the main focus of her letter, which is the unauthorised use of her photographs.

Love pkw xxx

Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: brightberry on May 08, 2023, 03:00:32 PM
I love Basic Fun's Celestial Ponies and plan to buy doubles if I can. 

My Little Pony, Celestial Ponies are all copyrighted by Hasbro and no one but Hasbro and Basic Fun have the rights to produce products to sell from the brand.  I also don't think that the Amazon photos were meant for general public viewing.  Just because we found a "workaround" to get a sneak preview, doesn't mean those images weren't under a review process already.  Amazon could do a better job in this regard.   I'm glad they did take down those images, though and I hope it resolves the issue.  :)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 08, 2023, 03:22:46 PM
My understanding the the C&D letter written by Panda to BF is the unauthorised use of her photographs on Amazon. This is summed up at the end of the letter written by Panda under "Artists Expectations". The likeness of two of Panda's customs to the two made by BF is a "furthermore", rather than the main focus of her letter, which is the unauthorised use of her photographs.

Love pkw xxx



Yeah, but it was unwise to include it in the letter.

And she has directly accused them of stealing in her IG post and in this thread - which gives broader context to the letter, and is accessible to literally anyone who might look for it.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Gizmo on May 08, 2023, 04:20:39 PM
When the toy fair pictures were first revealed it was Panda's interpretation that came to my mind, the fact her actual customs and photos were then used as stock images over multiple online stores made it all the more obvious. Technicalities aside, I don't think it's ok to use her photographs in any capacity without her permission and I'm glad she's done something about it 👏

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: brightberry on May 08, 2023, 04:52:15 PM
When the toy fair pictures were first revealed it was Panda's interpretation that came to my mind, the fact her actual customs and photos were then used as stock images over multiple online stores made it all the more obvious. Technicalities aside, I don't think it's ok to use her photographs in any capacity without her permission and I'm glad she's done something about it 👏

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.
Honestly, I think the blue pony in that pose looks a lot like the original artwork and it makes sense if more than one thought of it that way because there aren't a lot of ways to interpret it:  http://mylittlewiki.org/w/images/4/41/Fairy-bright-ponies.jpg

The same with the dark pink pony in the Posey pose.  Which earth pony pose has Basic Fun made that comes closest to it? 


We can't act like we're entitled to Hasbro's brand just because it inspires us. Otherwise, they would have every reason to start cracking down on customizers just in case they get accused of copying someone. 
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 09, 2023, 02:17:54 AM
What Brightberry said.

It made me think about a discussion in the Jem context. When Hasbro made the Starlight Girl dolls, those dolls weren't actually Hasbro's original concepts. They were I think Christy Marx's as support characters, and I know Craig was another one. But Hasbro made them because Hasbro owned Jem's copyright, and IT made Craig because again, the overall copyright was still theirs. I remember it being discussed on the Jem list, but I also remember Christy explaining how they made them but that they didn't ask her or need to ask her for permission because even though she created them, they held the overall copyright - and still do.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: baby_gusty on May 09, 2023, 03:50:56 AM
I have to say I'm chocked how basic fun (and amazon) has dealt with this, so poorly and I fully understand Panda's frustration and disappointment. I understand it's hasbro's copyright aetc but there's just too much of all this to make it feel ok.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 09, 2023, 06:09:15 AM
I also don't think we were "meant" to see those photos, though it does concern me that they were given to multiple sellers (the C&D letter included an ad given to a UK seller too). And the Amazon listings were very much public, you might have to click a few extra buttons to find them but it's not like we've stumbled across a hidden listing or anything, either.
I've been wondering if they were just "borrowing" the photos to use as a sort of proof-of-concept to try and sell the idea to retailers? We know they've had some trouble getting sellers to pick these ponies up - that's why the Flutters, Lemon Drop playset, FFs didn't make it into full production. Considering they've said this set is more expensive to produce, I could see them doing that just as a stopgap to avoid having to put time and money into prototypes that might not have been picked up. 'course, if that's what happened, they really should've discarded the pics as soon as the product did get the greenlight, but that's kind of another argument. But my point is that I'd like to assume good faith here. I mean... that other set that turned up on Amazon recently, the one we're assuming is the RaMC set. That's obviously a placeholder/mock-up image we weren't really meant to see, too. No one's thinking twice about that because the photos aren't stolen customs, of course, but still, these things happen, I guess.

(actually come to think of it, that placeholder pic that went up for Running Press Firefly.... wasn't there talk about that being "borrowed" from one of the big fansites, too? not entirely the same thing because that was a stock 80s Firefly, not a custom, but...)

My understanding the the C&D letter written by Panda to BF is the unauthorised use of her photographs on Amazon. This is summed up at the end of the letter written by Panda under "Artists Expectations". The likeness of two of Panda's customs to the two made by BF is a "furthermore", rather than the main focus of her letter, which is the unauthorised use of her photographs.

Love pkw xxx



Yeah, but it was unwise to include it in the letter.

And she has directly accused them of stealing in her IG post and in this thread - which gives broader context to the letter, and is accessible to literally anyone who might look for it.


I just checked and it looks like you can't actually view anything on the Arena without being logged in now - doesn't stop anyone from making an account, of course. Don't know about the Instagram post though.
Anyway, regardless of whether or not that was the main intent of the C&D, the accusation of design theft was still made in that letter.

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.

Sorry, but this argument doesn't work. It makes sense for them to reproduce those moulds because - those three characters were REPRODUCTIONS. They were remaking a specific toy and trying to get it to look as close to the original product as possible. They have specific reason there to redo the original poses.

These characters have never been produced, in an official capacity, before. We have NO idea what poses they might have been made in if they had gone into production in the 80s.

(Aside: The wiki does claim they would have used the Precious Pocket poses - do we know where that claim originates from? just read it and it sounds to me like something said at a Fair, in which case there might not be a verifiable source for it as such.. admit I'm a bit sceptical of that because those moulds would need to be modified to remove the holes on the hips before they could be used for any non-Pocket pony... and even if that had been the plan originally, there's every chance they could have changed it further down the line if they HAD gone into production, given how many other ponies changed poses, species, etc before release... I mean, the only proto Hasbro Celestial we've seen was a pegasus... but I digress.)

Point is: these aren't repros. These are entirely new toys that are based off the art and nothing else. It's possible that Hasbro gave BF some "inside info" that we haven't been privy to (re: poses and such)... but it's also entirely possible/probable Hasbro just gave them the art and told them to go nuts with it. I mean, Basic Fun have already made up their own names AND set name, they're not using the names Hasbro came up with back in the day. But what I'm saying is, Basic Fun have absolutely zero reason to make a new mould just for these four. And again, these ponies are more costly to produce than a regular set. Why on earth would they go out of their way to make a whole new pose when they could just save costs by using the ones they already have?

Sorry, but again, to me this is like if customizer A made a Hasbro-matching alt-posed Applejack (or Firefly, or whatever) and customizer B said A had copied them because they'd done the same custom. When you're using Hasbro designs, on Hasbro moulds, and trying to match the original style as closely as possible, OF COURSE there's going to be similarities! (And to be perfectly honest, I don't even see any "suspicious" similarities between the two sets.)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: BlackCurtains on May 09, 2023, 06:58:23 AM
I made the Celestial ponies too, and I did them way before Panda did. I never finished them, which is why they aren't on the internet. Here they are.

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I used the exact same pose for the dark pink one. I also used the Tootsie pose but for a different one.

So I think the "they "copied" the poses" argument is a bunch of ponyfeathers.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 09, 2023, 06:58:57 AM
My Little Wiki didn't even list the Precious Pocket pony pose (now that's a phrase) info at the time when BF was making their prototypes.

Texas toy show, September 2022 - Basic Fun unveils its prototypes, already in the Tootsie and Posey pose

Pony Fair West, September 2022 - a former Hasbro employee says the Celestial ponies (actual set name was the Fancy Swirl ponies iirc) were meant to be in the Pocket Pony poses.  This is also where the names (Mistyglow etc) were revealed.

February 2023 - My Little Wiki is updated with the names and poses.

So even if BF had wanted to be 100% accurate, the info wasn't out there at the time when they were doing research.

This is the entirety of the info that was on the Wiki when BF started developing their set:

Quote
Only the concept art seems to have been produced but never the actual ponies.  They are often referred to as the Celestial ponies, but Hasbro's trademarked name for the set was the Fancy Swirl ponies. 

That said, I don't think it matters if BF purposely skipped the Precious Pocket poses versus being unaware of them.  How many people have made a Baby Parasol in the Baby Cotton Candy pose or a Baby Medley in Baby Firefly's pose?  Does it make sense for a customizer to get angry if someone saw their Baby Parasol, thought "wow good idea!", and made a similar custom?  There are only so many poses and the idea is derived from Hasbro's "make baby ponies that look like their moms" era.

Edit:  Your customs look great, BlackCurtains!  (Panda's do as well.)  Do you think you'll ever finish them?  I have a set of G3 Twinkle Eyes that have been loitering in my custom bin for ten years, ha ha.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 09, 2023, 07:47:44 AM
BC, I'm glad you posted those (aside the fact they look amazing, even unfinished) because it reinforces the idea that these ponies have been reimagined by many pony fans and those reimaginings may easily have overlapped without any intention or knowledge of the others.

On the photos. I don't know if we were meant to see them or not, but it strikes me that it happened because up till now all the G1 ponies produced have used existing G1 ponies as placeholders before they had their own images. I don't know the sources of those pictures, but it still remains true. I imagine some person found BPC's custom photo and got the wrong end of the stick, assumed these were the released ponies and thus used them without realising what they had found. There are no 'real' Celestial ponies, so this really seems probable.

On the MLW, that's interesting. THe lack of citation makes it impossible to corroborate anyway, but I think this is also relevant (and demonstrates how Hasbro switch concepts very quickly through production).
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These are the actual prototypes at point of catalogue release (ie what was sent to stores by Hasbro, so fairly late in production) for the Pocket ponies. Pic borrowed from Wiki but it's Hasbro's image. It's notable that the poses we assume for the Pocket ponies aren't anywhere in this picture. The walking pose is, however. This is also how these ponies were drawn in the comics.

There are so many examples of ponies whose poses change multiple times through production, not just these. I think that's really important to mention. We also don't know how many poses BF went through when trying to settle on their versions of this set. Did they try with Bubbles or Bow Tie poses? We don't know, because they didn't tell us. All we know is that they settled on these poses, both of which are already in their arsenal, and well within their rights to use.

I also agree that the customs are different enough from the final version, but seeing BC's versions puts that into context very neatly - that these are logical conclusions for anyone to come to, because they are the most common poses in the MLP range.

I legit have a baby parasol in a baby cc pose that I made 20+ years ago. LOL I wonder how many do exist. Must be tons xD.

@Carrehz, if that's true about the Arena then that's great. I think there's still problems logging in at the moment. BUT we also know that BF were here following our discussions way back in the early days. I don't know if they ever signed up, but it's perfectly possible they have an account that we don't know about.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 09, 2023, 08:30:23 AM
Oh, that's a good point about that info not being out there when BF were making their protos! Hadn't thought about that.

Honestly I think the Pocket pose thing is sort of moot as well, I mostly brought it up to forestall any possible "but the wiki says-" posts in response to my "we don't know what poses they would've used" lol. My point is, prototypes and vague plans aside, there are no "original 80s Celestial/Fancy Swirl ponies", so it doesn't matter WHAT poses they use, thus, no reason for them not to just use the moulds they already have to hand.

Love your customs BC! I particularly like how you did the light pink one's stars.

Haha Taffeta, we posted at the same time. Yeah, I was going to ask if Basic Fun had ever used stock 80s pony images for their repros before? Again, the RaMC set placeholder that was posted the other day... where did they get those G1 images from. I dunno who found Panda's custom photos first or what their intention was in using them, but I really do feel that it was either a mistake (as you said) and/or just borrowed quickly to get the idea across (like using a random photo of, I don't know, an original flutter pony to try and sell the idea of reproducing those - again, they could've just grabbed the photo without even fully realizing it wasn't an actual prototype or something). While I don't think it was RIGHT for them to use the photos, and I'm 100% in favour of them being taken down and apologies being made, etc etc, I don't think any malicious intent was meant by the use of them. I hope that makes sense.

re: the Pocket poses, I mean, thing is that this is something said at a Fair, what.. 30, 40 years after the fact? You've gotta keep in mind that the designer could've just misremembered, even. I'm not saying they DID, I'm just saying that plans can change, memories can be faulty, we can't take that 100% at face value and say "This is definitely what would've happened if Hasbro had released the set". I didn't even realize the Pockets went through multiple poses too!! Great point!

We also don't know how many poses BF went through when trying to settle on their versions of this set. Did they try with Bubbles or Bow Tie poses?
Oh man, Celestials in these poses would be amazing, though.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Basic Fun had an account on here. I do think it's likely they looked at MULTIPLE customs (and fanart!) of the Celestials, because this set exists because we asked for it! There was a letter-writing campaign! I think it's likely they'd be really looking at what fans are doing with this set, in particular, because it's a fan-requested set. They'd want to do it "right".

edit: Also I just wanted to clarify, since I'm not sure I worded this correctly before. When I pointed out there's no source for the "Celestials in Pocket poses" claim on the wiki - I do believe that was said at the Fair, I'm not trying to cast doubt on that. I'm assuming it's the sort of thing where it was said in-person and off-camera and we've just gotta take it on faith, and that's fine; my point was more that while that's interesting trivia, it's pretty moot when it comes to the Basic Fun versions of these characters, because a) it's 50/50 if they were told that too and b) Hasbro could've changed plans if production had furthered ANYway. Sorry, I just wanted to clear that up, I think I worded it unclearly before.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 09, 2023, 09:11:19 AM
I may be wrong but I have a feeling the RaMC ones are ones BF used as stock photos for their previous retros.

Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Flitter on May 09, 2023, 10:14:49 AM
I made the Celestial ponies too
I love that you made them shimmery!

From the artwork and theme I kinda expected them to be glittery or shimmery or translucent in some way. The BF prototypes are still really cool though and I know conveying the swirls was a challenge. If I collected G1, I know I’d be absolutely ecstatic to be getting an unreleased prototype/concept after all these years.
I can only dream that some characters we never got for g4 get released someday :hope:
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 09, 2023, 10:34:39 AM
When the toy fair pictures were first revealed it was Panda's interpretation that came to my mind, the fact her actual customs and photos were then used as stock images over multiple online stores made it all the more obvious. Technicalities aside, I don't think it's ok to use her photographs in any capacity without her permission and I'm glad she's done something about it 👏

Meanwhile the limited molds argument sounds like a stretch to me when they had no trouble reproducing the Bubbles pose, Moondancer pose, or Fizzy pose which are unlikely to be used again in the future.

So you are going to stretch things further by pointing out that an unmade set comprised entirely of EARTH ponies is hard evidence to steal someone's custom photos just because they made a few unicorn poses? Do you seriously not know how nonsensical that sounds? You didn't just stretch the rubber band with that one, it straight up broke.

1) Basic Fun already has photos and live video of their product. So Amazon is the likely culprit for the misappropriated photo. Amazon should have asked BF to provide, instead of trawling the internet. Now to be fair I understand they don't know the difference and photos of BF's Celestial's are floating around the internet, but professionally they should have asked the company only.

2) This isn't a reproduction set. It's one that has never been made before.

3) Basic Fun makes the toy, but Hasbro owns the brand,and the concept design and likely vetoes or denies sets, poses, and characters. They can tell Basic Fun to make them however they like.

4) Can you tell me what some of the most common Earth Pony poses are? Gingerbread, Posey, and to a lesser extent Tootsie. You can count the Bubbles posed ponies on one hand. If I had to guess by artwork alone, I'd say Gingerbread, Posey, and Sugarberry would have been the most likely poses used IF the set had been made in the 80s/90s.

5) None of us own this concept. None of us worked in Hasbro toy design way back when. None of us get to complain that they stole anything except for Panda's photo of customs, and that issue has already been resolved.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 09, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
It does look like Basic Fun are the ones that sent out the stolen photos - the C&D letter included a photo of an advert that BF sent out to a UK stockist and that had PB's customs on it too. Although I'm not clear on if that advert was actually sent out to buyers or what... I'm a bit confused as to where that comes into it to be honest. But it does seem that it's not just Amazon that had those photos, anyway.

Other than that I agree 100% with everything you said LAW!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 09, 2023, 10:47:30 AM
I'm confused by that part too Carrehz.

BTW BlackCurtains, gorgeous customs! Hope you get a chance to finish them some day, I love how shimmery they are.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 09, 2023, 01:17:36 PM
It does look like Basic Fun are the ones that sent out the stolen photos - the C&D letter included a photo of an advert that BF sent out to a UK stockist and that had PB's customs on it too. Although I'm not clear on if that advert was actually sent out to buyers or what... I'm a bit confused as to where that comes into it to be honest. But it does seem that it's not just Amazon that had those photos, anyway.

Other than that I agree 100% with everything you said LAW!

The C&D has been taken down. I think that's a wise move, though I was going to have another look at that to see exactly what it was. I feel like given BF had their own image mocked up for the toy fair, it wouldn't make sense to use something that looked drastically different to promote specifically the white/blue pony with pink hair. It would be a design step backwards which seems odd.

On that note, I don't use IG, but it looks like PBC's commissions IG has been closed as well?  I assume that's her choice based on this fallout but if anyone knows her personally, maybe check in and make sure she's ok?

Even if many of us disagree with her position on the designs, nobody wants to see her in trouble.

In the meantime, so long as the pictures are down, the rest of us should probably move on.

And support the Celestials when they come out.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: brightberry on May 09, 2023, 01:21:36 PM
I certainly don't want someone to leave the community because of a disagreement. It really wasn't about her personal character or value as a person.  Being angry about the picture use was fair and I can see how that could make anyone boil over.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on May 09, 2023, 02:11:43 PM
Update:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


All of PBC's images are no longer on Amazon (at least not that I can find) and we now know the names of each pony, likely officially. Nova is blue, Aurora is magenta.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 09, 2023, 05:31:17 PM
I do hope nothing goes wrong for Pandabear, or that she leaves the community over this :( I disagree with the C&D and all of that but it's not a personal disagreement. I mean that's the thing, I don't want ANYONE to get in trouble over this.

I feel like given BF had their own image mocked up for the toy fair, it wouldn't make sense to use something that looked drastically different to promote specifically the white/blue pony with pink hair. It would be a design step backwards which seems odd.

That's what I found so confusing! But I suppose it's hardly the first time companies have used promo photos that differ significantly to the final product... just, you know, usually they're prototypes and not customs ;) I don't know, I still feel the use of those photos was an error/oversight. But I suppose it's water under the bridge really now that all of the pics are off Amazon.

Which btw - YAY!! :cheer: :cheer: So happy Amazon is now using the actual images, and that we've got confirmation (hopefully!!) on who's who. I'm so excited for this set!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Leave a Whisper on May 09, 2023, 07:37:25 PM
No one wants her to leave. She's such a sweetheart
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 09, 2023, 09:10:12 PM
A lot of this response is incredibly overblown and I think ya'll are doing way too much for speculating like that about something so insignificant.

It would have been really easy to say "wow, that's horrible, we should all DM Basic Fun and ask them to apologize and remove the photos, but also it's a little screwed up to accuse them of stealing your designs when you didn't invent the Celestial Ponies and they barely resemble your versions- maybe don't do that?" but somehow this evolved into "if you send that C&D, Hasbro and Basic Fun might never make new ponies again and they'll shut down all of the fan projects!!"

It's fine to argue with a fan-artist about the originality of their work and refute the claim that BF stole their designs and question them for requesting a boycott, but it's pretty screwed up to speculate and catastrophize about an imaginary future in which Hasbro cracks down and starts filing DMCAs on fan works of any kind as a result of a singular C&D sent by one customizer.  To argue with the veracity of the claim that Basic Fun stole her designs is one thing, to act like her C&D has the potential to be the downfall of the community is a whole other. I would also shut down my accounts if I were being preemptively blamed for such an offense, so it's no surprise if she has.

To be clear, PB was 100% inarguably correct to issue a C&D in response to her photos being used as listing images by BF- that part of her C&D was completely valid. If that C&D were to result in Hasbro cracking down on fanworks (it won't), it would be Basic Fun's fault for not understanding the ethics of stealing photos from an artist in the community that they are trying to sell product to. They poked the nest.

Hasbro is a corporation. Basic Fun is a corporation. They get C&Ds all the time, ones that are much worse and much more valid than this, ones that have been sent directly to them and not a separate company licensing their property, ones that have been sent by much larger groups than a single MLP artist. This is not the apocalyptic event that you think it is, and to act like it is just because it might, in some fantasy universe, cause Hasbro and Basic Fun to rethink any future endeavors to release un-released ponies is really weird, especially in a world where the HQG1C project is literally making premium, mass-produced MLP clones without issue (some of which are, in fact, based on never-released Hasbro designs or based on actual, officially released pony characters- I can think of seven at the top of my head), which Hasbro absolutely is aware of and likely has been since the first prototypes hit the internet, and clearly do not care, or they recognize that cracking down so hard on fan works would blow up in their faces.

PB might be wrong to think they based their interpretation on her customs, but it's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be and you shouldn't talk about it like it is. Hasbro isn't going to kill the fandom because of one C&D, you are just overstating harm.

If you love plastic horses so much that you're going to speculate to such a degree about the potential overarching ramifications of their very minor and easily debunked complaint, because you're scared that a corporation might not make you some new toys if they complain, you need to sit and think about whether or not you value these toys a little more than you should. I would never put that kind of blame on somebody's shoulders for something so small, even if they're wrong. 



Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: pandabear_chan on May 09, 2023, 11:07:54 PM
@all the "concerned" members here that feared about the influence of my reaction to future Basic Fun and HQG1C projects etc:
The issue has been solved, but the result is none of your business at all. I know how to react here properly too in the future so please stop "worrying" about my health.

@ Pinkkittywinks, Gizmo and baby_gusty
Thank you so much for your support - I highly appreciate it!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 09, 2023, 11:54:30 PM

The issue has been solved, but the result is none of your business at all. I know how to react here properly too in the future so please stop "worrying" about my health.



That is great to hear, and I hope you got the apology you deserve! And for what it's worth, your Celestials are my favorite version- love the Crumpet Pose one!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 10, 2023, 12:17:09 AM
PBC, I'm glad to hear that, I hope that everything goes better from this point on.

@Serena-hime, hindsight moralising is disingenuous.

The truth is none of this was ever our business at all. It was brought to our attention by PBC's IG post, her post here and the C&D letter she shared with us.

I think 100% of people here agree that the pics should not have been used and support them being taken down.
None of us know whether there has been or will be any further consequences for this down the line. We hope not, but nobody can say either way whether it matters or whether it doesn't. Raising that concern wasn't creating drama or overreacting, it was thinking laterally about the implications for someone who has a significant reputation in this community as a skilled customiser.

With any luck this is done now, anyway.

Since PBC doesn't want to tell us how the matter has been resolved, then we shouldn't speculate on it any further.

I think it's a good lesson for everyone about copyright and IP.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 10, 2023, 01:13:19 AM

 Raising that concern wasn't creating drama or overreacting

We'll have to disagree. Overstating harm (especially overstating potential harm) is not productive, and it certainly wasn't in this situation.

Quote
hindsight moralising is disingenuous.

Nah
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: DreamvalleyMLP on May 10, 2023, 02:40:16 AM
Only people who agree are allowed to voice their opinion? Got it. Certainly don't throw it onto a discussion forum then.
Anyway, I hope this thread gets some review pics soon so that this gets burried in the pages and it's just a faint memory.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Snapdragon on May 10, 2023, 03:08:24 AM
I’m glad Serena-hime jumped in here, because you put into words a lot of things that made a lot of sense to me once I saw them written out. I don’t really know how to weigh in, but I don’t love seeing folks speculating a potential Hasbro blowback situation where we (as a fandom) blame anyone but Hasbro. If Hasbro shuts down a collector… I’m not on Hasbro’s side there, LOL. And when Hasbro (or some affiliate) steals photos from a collector, then the collector has the right to be upset. I am glad that the images got taken down!
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 10, 2023, 05:37:50 AM
Since we can't know what harm, or potential harm has/has not happened as a result of this, I don't think we can comment on too much/too little in that context. I don't want to shut down anyone's opinion so I'm going to leave that there.

Snapdragon, I don't think those things happened in this discussion. I think it was more trying to get the facts straight, and trying to convey the realities of copyright. Saying Hasbro etc have the rights is not the same as taking their side. It's just the legal reality. We were worried about a Hasbro blowback - yes. Did we advocate it? No. Were we trying to prevent it? Yes. That's literally all. Serena-hime's opinions do not speak for people's individual motives, and we ALL agreed unanimously that PBC had the right to be upset about the use of her pictures. The ONLY thing that was disputed was her complaining about BF 'stealing' (her word) her designs and using them as 'inspiration' (again her words), which even if true (and it's not clear either way, no evidence), can't be legally defended because of the IP situation.

With a contentious issue like this, we're all going to have different interpretations. I don't think it helps to try and accuse or discern motives, nor castigate for people making comments in good faith, even if they didn't agree with one another.

I honestly don't think anyone posted here (on either side of the debate) with any ill will towards anyone. I think everyone wanted to do the best with protecting BPC and the wider community, with raising red flags and risk, and that subsequently discussions around some of those issues became more detailed.

We all have our own perspectives on this for whatever reason, and it's better we all accept that and move on.

In any case, I figure that we'd do better with a new thread. Recovering the ground around this isn't really helpful now, and thankfully the custom images have all been removed.

Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 10, 2023, 07:47:05 AM
Taffeta, DreamvalleyMLP - I couldn't have put it better myself.

I don't like this idea of, we can't disagree with one another or whatever. I'm not trying to stir up an argument or anything but I just want to say my piece and clarify my view on it... cuz I think some of this has been blown out of proportion all of a sudden.

Evidently my posts were taken the wrong way and were seen as a personal attack - This was NEVER my intention. At all. Honestly I'm shocked that it appears to have been viewed that way by certain individuals. All I can say there is sorry.

I do think it's very, very good, and worthwhile, to discuss these things, the ramifications that yes, COULD have occurred from the C&D, and I honestly don't understand why that's being slammed here?? I don't.. like..

but I don’t love seeing folks speculating a potential Hasbro blowback situation where we (as a fandom) blame anyone but Hasbro. If Hasbro shuts down a collector… I’m not on Hasbro’s side there, LOL.

Now I can't speak for anyone else... but personally I wasn't placing any "blame" on ANYONE. ALL I was saying is that I disagreed with the C&D, I thought the claims of design theft were frankly ridiculous (to be blunt - might as well be, since my posts are being taken in bad faith anyway :P), and I felt it was more likely to do harm than good. I didn't want anyone in the community to get hurt by any potential fallout.

Also Serena-hime, to be honest I found a lot of YOUR post to be "incredibly overblown". No one was saying Hasbro would "crack down on all fanworks"??? There's a big difference between fanworks in general, and big projects like HQG1C and we were talking about the latter.

To be honest I didn't even see anyone speculating about stuff like this as much as you make out.

I honestly don't think anyone posted here (on either side of the debate) with any ill will towards anyone. I think everyone wanted to do the best with protecting BPC and the wider community, with raising red flags and risk, and that subsequently discussions around some of those issues became more detailed.

I'm just gonna quote this cause I think Taffeta put it better than I could've. Serena, you're acting like we were all screaming and cussing out Hasbro/PB/Basic Fun/etc. All I saw here was a well-written and thoughtful, civil discussion that branched out into several other related discussions (honestly I thought the thing we picked over the most was the Pocket pony pose thing, which is really only tangentially related to PB's customs  :lol:). And it really sucks that it seems to have been taken as a big attack when it.... wasn't? The conversation's been very civil up to now, I'm disappointed to see it suddenly take this turn.

Did the discussion go on longer than it should've? Perhaps. I did think yesterday that we'd probably all said everything that needed to be said. But what else do you expect from a forum, you know? That's the point of them, to talk about things.

I guess in the end, all I can say is, this probably shouldn't ever have BEEN up for discussion. It should've been a private matter between Pandabear and Basic Fun. But Pandabear posted it on here and well... when you post things on a discussion forum, you can't really get upset if it spurs on a discussion... instead of people rallying around you and agreeing to a boycott.

(And I agree a new thread would probably be best, given the nasty turn this one took.)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: LadyMoondancer on May 10, 2023, 08:30:39 AM
Just because Hasbro has been lenient towards customs in the past and turned a blind eye doesn't mean they always will.  What's better than "blaming Hasbro" for C&Ds is using foresight to avoid a situation where Hasbro decides C&Ds are necessary.  Especially when it could impact customizers who didn't ask to be involved in all this.

I am all for moving on and/or creating a new thread.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 10, 2023, 03:27:44 PM
I'm 'slamming' this kind of speculation because within this context, it did look like you were blaming PB for the possibility of Hasbro cracking down on certain fan-works/BF not making new ponies, and apparently I'm not the only person seeing that. The topic of potential consequences did not happen within a vacuum, it happened alongside every other topic regarding this issue. How does it not look like you’re casting blame on PB if the conversation of “potential backlash from Hasbro and BF as a result of this C&D” is happening in parallel with arguments about whether or not she is wrong for accusing them of stealing her work (a debate that, from my perspective, was way less polite to PB than it should have been)?



I was pretty appalled to see such speculation happening, given the fact that PB was already clearly hurt by the fact that BF took her photos, and that is why I spoke up. Such an escalation felt inappropriate in this context to me, which is why I went so hard against it. I don’t want people reading to think we’re simply going to toss them under the bus if this happens again, to make sure we keep Hasbro/BF happy so we keep getting new ponies. Even if it wasn't meant to be taken that way, that's how it looked to me.

PB deserved to be given a little more grace in this situation than I think she was, and the speculation about Hasbro shutting down fan-works as a result of her C&D was quite the opposite of that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If somebody wants to request that a mod remove the last few pages of this thread to start over, that's fine. I'm sorry to have made it go on any longer than it should have, and I hope we'll be a little more lenient to the next person who feels like their work has been stolen, even if they are wrong.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Carrehz on May 10, 2023, 05:08:27 PM
How does it not look like you’re casting blame on PB if the conversation of “potential backlash from Hasbro and BF as a result of this C&D” is happening in parallel with arguments about whether or not she is wrong for accusing them of stealing her work (a debate that, from my perspective, was way less polite to PB than it should have been)?

Well sure, if you go into threads assuming bad faith, you're gonna see that. *shrug*

Honestly I can't see any of what you're getting at, sorry. I thought the conversation was perfectly civil and fair... heck I'd have been the first to speak up if I thought anything was toeing the line. A lot of the discussion didn't even directly mention/reference PB, and when she WAS directly mentioned it was almost always with the sidenote of support for the photo thing. Serena, you didn't even speak up until after the situation had apparently been resolved this morning - if you have such strong feelings on the subject then why not say something earlier...?

I don’t want people reading to think we’re simply going to toss them under the bus if this happens again, to make sure we keep Hasbro/BF happy so we keep getting new ponies.

Heh, I thought you didn't want us speculating on potential repercussions this thread could have? :P

I'll just say again that I wasn't "tossing anyone under the bus", don't see anyone else doing that, and once again I 100% supported the photos being taken down. Do I think the accusations of theft were silly, yes, do I think a C&D was a major overreaction and more likely to lead to Very Bad Things, yes (again- I was worried it could come back on Pandabear herself - you keep painting this narrative of "you guys only care about new ponies!!" and I have no idea where you're getting that from??).

We're just going around in circles at this point so I'm about done here. I just want to say this... I think it's good to talk about things and I think this discussion was important, and good, and heck I'd even call it illuminating in a few ways. I just wish we hadn't had to have it in the first place, because the damn photo theft shouldn't have happened, but unfortunately it did. Fortunately it's been resolved, and that's fantastic; hopefully we can just all move on. I said this before, but I'm upset things suddenly heated up today because I was impressed at how civil and thought-out the discussion was up to this point. I'm upset that Pandabear apparently has taken a simple disagreement as a personal attack, which was never my (or anyone else's, I'm pretty sure) intention. But, alright, that's what you get with a discussion forum, you get the good and the bad. We can't all agree with each other after all, we're all entitled to our own opinion.

Now... how to put this. I personally think this discussion's run its course and it's time to just start up a new thread. I'm not trying to silence people or anything, if anyone does have anything else to say then I'm 100% in favour of you saying it, I'm just stating my opinion. But at the same time I admit I disagree with the notion of deleting the last few pages. To me that smacks of censorship, thought control, etc. How does that saying go... "those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it". The idea of just pretending the last few pages didn't happen doesn't sit well with me. Ultimately it's up to the mods, of course, but that's just my view on it all. I'm just not a fan of silencing discussion just because it didn't have the desired effect that the discussion starter wanted. And that's all I have left to say about this, really.

(Hm- now where's that "create new thread" button...)
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: serena-hime on May 10, 2023, 05:48:35 PM

Well sure, if you go into threads assuming bad faith, you're gonna see that. *shrug*

Honestly I can't see any of what you're getting at, sorry. I thought the conversation was perfectly civil and fair... heck I'd have been the first to speak up if I thought anything was toeing the line. A lot of the discussion didn't even directly mention/reference PB, and when she WAS directly mentioned it was almost always with the sidenote of support for the photo thing. Serena, you didn't even speak up until after the situation had apparently been resolved this morning - if you have such strong feelings on the subject then why not say something earlier...?


If i were in PBs position and I read all of that while I was already going through a tough time, while people are already seemingly treating me as though I'm ridiculous for thinking BF might have taken inspiration from my work in addition to stealing my photos, I would have thought I was being told not to send the C&D for the sake of the rest of the community and fan-projects and that if would be my fault if that happened. If you don't see how it can look that way, I really don't know what to tell you!

Quote
Heh, I thought you didn't want us speculating on potential repercussions this thread could have? :P

The difference being that I'm speculating on something that might have actually happened- notice that I made my initial comment after people pointed out the possibility of PB leaving the community as a result of this?

Quote
if you have such strong feelings on the subject then why not say something earlier...?

I didn't see the comments about potential blowback from Hasbro (and worry that PB might leave the community- which was my primary reason for making that initial comment) until moments before I made my comment. I had no other issue with this conversation, except for perhaps the way people were refuting PB's allegations that BF copied her customs- which I think in hindsight could have been responded to with a lot more grace.

Quote
I'll just say again that I wasn't "tossing anyone under the bus"

That's what it looked like to me, regardless of whether or not that was the intended read- which, for the record, I assume it wasn't. Or rather, I worried PB would think that was what was being communicated once the conversation turned into "hasbro might get litigious if you send that and put other projects in jeopardy", especially after it was brought up that it looked like PB was closing down her accounts shortly after.

Quote
once again I 100% supported the photos being taken down.

Never said you didn't!

 
Quote
Do I think the accusations of theft were silly, yes, do I think a C&D was a major overreaction

A C&D is standard procedure when your work has been stolen (even if it's just a few pictures) and is not that big of a deal. Basic fun isn't going to quit making ponies because of it.

Quote
and more likely to lead to Very Bad Things

And I think bringing that up as a consequence in conjunction with a refutation of PB's claim that her work was copied, looks like you're blaming her (even if that wasn't the intent) rather than Basic Fun for starting this by using somebody else's photos without permission.

Quote
(again- I was worried it could come back on Pandabear herself - you keep painting this narrative of "you guys only care about new ponies!!" and I have no idea where you're getting that from??

Well there's this, among other comments in the thread:

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Let's not screw up future releases for the rest of the community by throwing a hissy fit over designs that were copied from official art. Because that's rather hypocritical and frankly it would make us look super ungrateful.

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I hope all of this doesn't scare Basic Fun off from making more original characters later.

I didn't come up with this narrative out of nowhere.


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I was impressed at how civil and thought-out the discussion was up to this point.

I agree- up until the point where the future of BF's releases and the futures of other fan-made pony projects came into the conversation, and definitely after it seemed like PB was going to leave. At that point it seemed like too much blame was being placed on PB's shoulders when it would have been a lot easier to politely refute her claims of copying and have a little more empathy for a community member who felt slighted by BF, whether or not it was intentional.

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But at the same time I admit I disagree with the notion of deleting the last few pages. To me that smacks of censorship, thought control, etc. How does that saying go... "those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it". The idea of just pretending the last few pages didn't happen doesn't sit well with me.

I'm inclined to agree, but I thought the previous pages (before this) had enough value to justify keeping it and removing the rest instead of starting a whole new thread. Maybe these parts can be moved and archived instead of deleted? I don't know. Edit: I didn't realize this conversation started on the first page of this thread lol. Must have mixed it up with a different thread. Okay, yeah, a new thread is a good idea!

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And that's all I have left to say about this

Agreed. I've said all I need to say. Sorry if you felt like I was coming out to get you, I wasn't talking about one particular person when I made my comment, and I'm sorry that I overreacted. I just think this situation could have been handled in a much more positive, empathetic way than it was, and I hope we'll do better if this ever happens again.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Snapdragon on May 10, 2023, 08:44:03 PM
Just wanted to jump in here; not to add fuel to the fire, but to just say that while I did get “civil” from the previous discussion, I didn’t get “kind”, which I think is what Serena-hime is responding to. Some posts were very “civilly” implying that it would be PBC’s fault if all of these bad things happened, and while I don’t consider that particularly civil, I just wanted to say that Serena wasn’t pulling that impression out of thin air, because I felt it too.

Nobody should ever give up their legal rights over their creative property because other fandom members wrung their hands over what-ifs.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Taffeta on May 11, 2023, 01:59:07 AM
I did find something that might help explain how the photos got where they did, but I wasn't going to raise it as we were trying to shut the conversation down. I will, though, in case it matters. I found a blog from 2018 which was backing LM's Celestial campaign, and the blog features pictures of PBC's customs. They are linked back to the source but not called customs. Not blaming that blog specifically but it dawned on me that maybe some members of the community got confused and sent photos of PBC's customs to BF. And BF maybe then thought they were prototypes and so went looking for them when they were talking about production.

This isn't me justifying what happened, nor is it me accusing BF of the picture usage, as I've also heard from friends in retail that it's uncommon for companies like BF to automatically send out pictures of products like that. We really don't 100% know what went on. But I can see how a misunderstanding could have been formed, and if so, it's a useful future lesson on not only citing sources, but not using other people's images in any context.

I suspect PBC knows nothing about this blog, I'm sure LM doesn't either - but I can see it as a potential smoking gun, or others like it. I am not linking it here for obvious reasons - the owner is a site member, albeit inactive, and I don't want to stir up bad feeling for what was probably an honest mistake.

So, going back to the discussion above, but the last paragraph of Serena-hime's post ascribes negative motives to being hyperanalytical.

That really bothered me. I felt like now focus has shifted a bit to HOW the subject was written, not what was said. It's also true that some aspects of the discussion have been given greater significance than was originally the case , but there's a problem when HOW something is presented is used to invalidate the points being made.

I certainly would not have posted in this had I not been worried about PBC's wellbeing and the wellbeing of other customisers who take commissions, like HQG1C. I still feel that it was a risk to include allegations of using her designs for 'inspiration' in a pseudo-legal C&D document, alongside a demand for financial compensation. That opens up the possibility of Hasbro looking at PBC's 20ish years customising for profit, in which she's used their IP for inspiration without permission, and thus - based on her own remarks - they might demand compensation in return for it.

 Hasbro hasn't made a pony I care about since 1994 so the idea that that would be a factor for me is kind of ridiculous. Yet I'm sure I'm probably the most hyperanalytical person in this discussion. I felt very much that those comments were aimed at me. As it turned out, they weren't, but that's not the point.

I don't want to talk about PBC in absentia any more, it feels disrespectful because that matter is, as she said, closed. I just wanted to make the point that people have different ways to communicate. It's always ok to call out someone when you think they cross a line, but you should do so directly at the time it happens, not after the fact, else you might do more damage than good.

And that is literally all I have to say on this.
Title: Re: Any Basic Fun retro G1 news for 2023?
Post by: Loa on May 11, 2023, 03:16:53 AM
Locking this up now. We have a positive resolution and while healthy discussion is warranted I can see this going in absolute circles.
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