The MLP Arena
Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Cobblestone on November 07, 2021, 09:16:24 AM
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Hey everyone, it’s been ages!
I realized I’ve been pretty out of the loop for a while. Pony value seems all over the place and I’m curious if anyone knows the deal with the refurbished ponies on eBay? I’ve just never seen that label used so I’m not sure how we’re using it in the community. I was under the impression that shouldn’t be done with rare or uncommon ponies? I know so little these days :drunk:
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Following for an answer!
I think generally folks like to know when work has been done, so I think that's a good thing to be aware of! But I know some people don't like having ponies with 'things' done to them, so I'm curious as to how people feel about it!
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I think I know that specific seller you're talking about-I see them a lot even though I only look up "Pony Lot" and they sell individuals. The seller does list what they have done to the pony in the description, it does just mean that they have put some work to restore them somewhat.
Personally, I'm more apt to rehair a buzzcut rare pony than some others might be, I think it's always been sort of up to the discretion of the collector as to how much work will be put in.
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I think I have quite an average level of condition in my collection, some near mint ones but I usually sell those on to collectors who only want unopened
ponies. Personally I don't mind if they have beem opened and washed as long as they haven't been damaged. However that is easier said than done and I prefer to do it myself. I wouldn't be sure what refurbishment means exactly. I think the short answer is that you kinda need to know what you're looking at and be prepared to ask the seller specific questions because everyone has a different definition.
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Okay, cool. So it’s just a preference thing. From what I can see it looks like they generally rehair and do other small touch ups. I appreciate that they disclose that, it just caught me off guard with ponies don’t normally see people alter.
Post Merge: November 07, 2021, 12:37:27 PM
Should I add a poll to see if it’s appealing or not as a buyer?
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A poll would be interesting but there's a good variety of opinion. Some people prefer to collect them as they are and to them a little wear and tear adds "character", some people like them untouched because they enjoy restoring it or have their own methods of doing things, and some people don't have restoration skills but would like a nice looking pony.
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It's very much an individual decision, and I think it often rests on the level of restoration. For example, some people don't mind the neck seal being broken to clean inside but do mind rehairs. And so on.
The word restoration is more common in the pony community rather than refurbished but I guess it's the same thing.
Frankly I think it probably should be something left to the buyer to decide to do, rather than a seller doing it and then selling the pony. You will always risk alienating some buyers by restoring especially a rare pony.
I'm pretty strict on this in my collection. Restoration is the same to me as customisation, and I'm not interested in customs that look identical to the original pony, so restored ponies have no value to me personally. But another person will tell you the exact opposite. I don't like hair cuts either, but I'll go the extra mile to get one with real hair rather than settle for a redo. I just like my ponies to be original.
So I'd always prefer the seller to leave it to the buyer to decide.
I'm also not a fan of breaking the neck seal except in obvious emergencies, as it's harder to prove if a pony has been rehaired/tail repaired. And I don't like replacing the tail holders with plastic either, even though I understand the risk of rust. It's just not for me.
On the other hand, if a seller has just washed the pony with soap and water to remove dirt, has washed the hair and even restyled it (no cutting) then I'm fine with that. Recurled hair doesn't bother me, even with product, as it can be washed out easily.
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I kinda disagree. Some people can't restore ponies but want ponies that look nice and don't mind if they have been touched up. If nobody sold touched up ponies then there would be a longer wait or they would have to buy a poor condition pony and then send it to a restoration service which means more shipping on top of the restoration service. Sometimes it's cheaper to just get the minty original one but meanwhile the poor condition one sits without a home.
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I've rehaired and repainted Argies in my collection. I think restoring poinies to sell is kinda weird? I guess there's a market for it. But if I sold ponies, I wouldn't bother and let the buyer choose what they do with it. But as far as ponies in my own collection? Heck yes, I'll restore them. They're mine. I can do what I want.
edit: Also hi! :lol: I remember you, you did some art of my ponysona :)
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I kinda disagree. Some people can't restore ponies but want ponies that look nice and don't mind if they have been touched up. If nobody sold touched up ponies then there would be a longer wait or they would have to buy a poor condition pony and then send it to a restoration service which means more shipping on top of the restoration service.
Frankly, they then might as well spend the money on a better condition pony *shrug*.
It is a good thing the seller discloses the restoration. It's more of a problem when that happens without it being disclosed.
Ultimately, though, a seller is restoring a pony to make more money. It doesn't make sense to do something to a pony that might rule out a number of potential buyers.
At the end of the day, what BC said is true, a person can do as they like to a pony they own. But if it's a case of wanting someone else to buy that pony, then it's a good idea to not make assumptions, and the best plan is to do no harm.
A person who wants a restored pony still has options even if they buy it in poor condition.
A person who doesn't want a restored pony has had that choice taken from them. It's a bit different if someone is selling a collection which contains ponies restored years earlier with the intention to keep them - but to restore specifically for sale is a risky choice as a seller. Especially with rarer ponies. It's not for a seller to determine what state a pony ought to be sold in. It's for the buyer to decide what state they want that pony they buy to be in, and seek restoration or otherwise if the pony is not in the condition they want when they receive it (providing it's honestly described).
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IMO it's really up to the collector.
I don't mind lovingly restored ponies. i have a few that had minor paint touch ups. nothing too drastic. I don't have any rehairs but i'm not against it. at this point some ponies are almost 40 years old. i doubt it will be easy to find mint condition ponies at some point. as long as the seller discloses the alterations i feel ok about it. idk
i am not at all skilled at any kind of restoration and will not attempt anything beyond washing dirt and conditioning hair. I have removed rusty tail washers to prevent additional staining. pretty much only in ponies that were moldy.
personally i'm ok with buying a lovingly restored pony that looks beautiful. since i can't do restorations myself. though i do welcome ponies with character i will not attempt any painting or rehairing for the sake of the pony and future collectors :) seriously i can barely assemble ikea furniture. no one wants me to try to restore paint.
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I do actually like finding "bait" quality ponies and fixing them up to sell because I enjoy the process...although my restorations are not rehairs or paint touch ups and are "I got rid of inground dirt" or "I de-yellowed her using a lightbox". I am not confident in my painting abilities and do find that to be more akin to customs at that point, and I prefer alternate rehairs. :P
Personally, I would probably not buy a pony that has been repainted because I am very particular about that.
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On disclosing a restore was done - Ironically, I don't like to mark on the bottom of hooves even if I go as far as to repaint symbols (like on my Argie Windy), instead I would put a note inside the body.
That said - I've never actually sold any ponies, especially from my collection and don't plan to. If I find myself in a bind there are other collections that I'd sell first. But let's say, I die. In that case I have a binder for my family (or whoever) about what to do with my stuff. The pony section is very detailed and I ask that they be sold or given back to the community and NOT to be donated, please. The rehairs/restores are in their own section.
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i have had people ask about ponies i've sold being rehaired. as far as i know none ever were. but i never feel comfortable saying they aren't unless the neck looks factory sealed. all of my ponies are second hand since my childhood collection didn't survive my childhood. but when people ask i usually take photos as best i can and let the buyer judge. i do like the idea of marking the inside of the pony.
i just feel like i can never be 100% sure about the condition of a pony wasn't in my possession for it's entire existence. To Tafetta's point can we ever be certain about a pony whose head was removed by a previous collector? idk. personally i can't really justify buying ponies if i can't as some point sell them. i feel like i'm in a tailspin now. how can i ever be sure?
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I don't mind restored ponies personally. It means less work that I hafta do. Especially if they were filled with mold, or have awful hair cuts. I don't mind giving them a new tail, or cleaning out rust, but I don't know how to re-hair manes, and mold grosses me out hardcore. If the seller is mentioning that they're erm refurbished, then they're being honest, as they ought to.
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I should probably add to this my disclaimer that I've seen the hidden rehair scam a fair few times over the years, which has led me to being very wary about stuff like this. So yeah, I have stepped back from ponies that might have been variants because the head was removed for cleaning...just in case the hair was also replaced (even if not by the person selling it). I don't know how you tell, but I know we even had a scientific experiment done on the glue on one of the reverse gusty fakes at one time...and people can get a really close approximation if they want to.
It's another matter if someone is clearly disclosing, but it's also why I'm in the "mark the hooves" category. I totally understand the position of people who don't want to do this, but rehairing is permanently changing the pony. And whether we think a seller should or should not restore a pony for resell, it's absolutely vital that any and all restoration work is disclosed.
It's fine if it's the restorer, as the vast majority of restorers are honest people. But there are always some (and in the past there were probably a fair amount more), and there's the risk of the ponies changing hands without a record, or someone unscrupulous will just sell them on as something else.
So I'm really wary on this point because of scams I've seen over the years. It's more an issue for me that I want everyone to be getting exactly what they pay for, and I'd rather sellers didn't meddle with something that's for a buyer (who will hopefully keep the pony and thus not circulate it back into the market for a while) to decide.
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yeah i remember the reverse gusty and the faded white windy back in the day. i definitely agree on rare nirvana ponies and variants not being retouched by sellers.
the ponies i have that were retouched are fairly common. and the touch ups were just some eye paint and cleaning. i feel ok about it as long as it's disclosed. i also worry about the record though. i usually don't buy with the intent to resell but end up reselling at times because i need the money or i run out of space. though thinking about ponies is making me want to buy more ponies. :(
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Let's just say it took LadyG and co a long time to convince me any Reverse Gustys were genuine, because of that spate of fakes. AND...there are other "prototypes" that I don't believe are genuine, even now.
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Maybe seeing refurbished as opposed to restored is what threw me off. It felt weird to see a bunch of (what are commonly understood to be rare) ponies with new hair and paint. I know there’s a market for that but I’m also very wary of anything without a neck seal. I can see the temptation for someone outside the community to maybe mimic a rare pony or something.
Not that this person is doing that. I want to be perfectly clear I’m not accusing anyone of anything, I just know g4 brought a TON of new eyes to the community and that also brings scammers. If everything you’re selling is a fixed up nirvana or tagged in some special way I’m skeptical.
Post Merge: November 10, 2021, 05:28:52 PM
I also understand the personal desire to fix up ponies. I’m into Breyer dapples right now and boy oh boy do I want to fix up some scratches and maybe paint in teeth or other small destails they didn’t bother with for some lines.
Post Merge: November 10, 2021, 05:31:09 PM
I've rehaired and repainted Argies in my collection. I think restoring poinies to sell is kinda weird? I guess there's a market for it. But if I sold ponies, I wouldn't bother and let the buyer choose what they do with it. But as far as ponies in my own collection? Heck yes, I'll restore them. They're mine. I can do what I want.
edit: Also hi! :lol: I remember you, you did some art of my ponysona :)
Ayyyye hi BC. I think the last time I saw you was on pony island but I didn’t do much chatting there. Maybe I can do more fun art things over here when I’ve got the time.
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Oh I definitely agree any work should be disclosed. I just think if someone would probably get more for a fixed up common pony then they should be able to and there's people who would appreciate it.
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Ice Crystal :sad: oof
Something about seeing the head popped off and all the cut marks around the neck just hurts. Has anyone figured out a formula to eat away at the old factory glue? I remember the old heat methods but I think that was like 50/50
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Acetone will dissolve glue but it will also eat the plastic if you leave it on too long. I use a cotton swab and work on a small area at a time, then once the glue gives I rinse it off. Disclaimer - I've only done this with G3s. G1 neck seals usually only need to be boiled. I haven't personally come across a stubborn one yet.
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Maybe seeing refurbished as opposed to restored is what threw me off. It felt weird to see a bunch of (what are commonly understood to be rare) ponies with new hair and paint. I know there’s a market for that but I’m also very wary of anything without a neck seal. [cut for length]
I feel the same way! On one hand, it's like, yeah, it's great that ponies are getting fixed up! But for me, I'd rather be doing fixes myself; and personally I'd prefer a more 'unretouched' common pony than one with some new hair plugs or paint. Or even a rare pony; but then, I know a lot of folks aren't customizers, so 'easy fixes' feel out of reach for them, so I can understand that.
I hope that's not something that will become commonplace; I'd prefer to be able to still buy group pony lots for low prices, and not have to battle against resellers. I think battered ponies have a special kind of charm, too!
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Oh I definitely agree any work should be disclosed. I just think if someone would probably get more for a fixed up common pony then they should be able to and there's people who would appreciate it.
The problem in that equation is the 'probably'. The fact is that as a seller you can never 100% assume the market. If you don't restore a beat up pony, it will put off some buyers. If you do restore a beat up pony, it will put off some buyers. The trick is to try and gauge which option puts off the most buyers, and given the cost and work hours that goes into restoration, it doesn't make good business sense to put that effort in when you can't guarantee a sale at the end of it.
You do see cases of people doing this, and you also have people who offer restoration services to those who want them, and while they're not to my taste, so long as the work is honestly disclosed somehow, it's not that it's wrong. I just don't see the point, from a simple economic standpoint, of putting time, effort and resources (hair, paint etc) into fixing something given that a good proportion of the community will reject the item for that very effort. Not to mention that the cost of those restoration materials also has to be factored into any profit you make.
You can't undo a restoration on a pony once it's done. Even if you have a pony that's badly rehaired and you give it a really good rehairing...it's still a restoration. You can never go back to original. You can never return to what it was. That's why I think it should be the choice of the owner, not the seller, that drives restoration overall.
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Oh I definitely agree any work should be disclosed. I just think if someone would probably get more for a fixed up common pony then they should be able to and there's people who would appreciate it.
The problem in that equation is the 'probably'. The fact is that as a seller you can never 100% assume the market. If you don't restore a beat up pony, it will put off some buyers. If you do restore a beat up pony, it will put off some buyers. The trick is to try and gauge which option puts off the most buyers, and given the cost and work hours that goes into restoration, it doesn't make good business sense to put that effort in when you can't guarantee a sale at the end of it. [trim]
That's 100% how I feel, too. It feels like - idk, wasted effort? To spend time and effort rehairing/repainting, say, a Cotton Candy or Applejack. They're lovely ponies, and if it's for your collection then go crazy! but... I'm not spending $15 on Applejack because you poured three hours of time and a hank of hair into her, either. I'd rather wait and find a nicer untouched Applejack for that price.
That's partly why I'm so hesitant when I talk about the appropriate ponies to bait for customs, too; people are often asking in reference to sales pieces, and it's hard to admit that some custom ponies just seem to not sell. So if you can sell an imperfect pony for an okay price, do that; because otherwise you run the risk of pouring $500 of your manpower hours into a $5 sale, or no sale at all. And that sucks!! :yikes:
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I've done commissioned restores, but they were bigger projects like sculpting a new ear or foot. I like fixing up ponies but I wouldn't bother trying to sell them just for those reasons you guys mention. For my own collection? Sure. But it does seem like wasted effort to rehair an AJ and expect to get a profit. Plus, I agree that it should be the buyer's decision if they want a lightly restored pony or not. Rehairing isn't a hard thing to learn, even the non-tool methods.
I've always said that you should do art for yourself. Everyone wants to make a job out of selling art and if you can achieve that, awesome. But if you're making custom ponies or whatever JUST to sell, then you are probably going to burn out quickly.
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Yeah. Rehairing is actually really very easy. I mean, if I can do it, and I have absolutely no practical skills generally, then it's really not as hard as people think. Especially on a pony. Dolls are much worse (and more painful, at least if you're me, as I used to stab myself regularly when rerooting Jem dolls). Rehairing is massively easier than repainting or resculpting, tbh, because that requires some genuine artistic skill as well as the ability to shove a needle through a hole a few times.
Alt rehairs are a bit on this line as well. If you have a massively haircut pony, is it better to alt rehair it or is it better to rehair it in the original colours...? I don't know. But I do see people alt rehairing really common ponies and then selling them for very much higher prices, presumably in recognition of parts and labour. But I feel like that's probably only profitable if you have a market/are already known for it as a service/have commissions already.
I do wince when I sometimes see alt rehaired ponies who have clearly been haired with cheap costume wig hair and who have then been listed at high prices because they're alt rehairs. Yes, alt rehair is a thing. But should everyone be doing it for profit? Probably not.
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I meant more like tiny paint touch ups. Not like totally repainting the eye/marks/blush but like if there's a small scuff fixing that. I've done things like that for stuff in my own collection. (Mostly non pony).
What about if people touch up stuff for their own collection but end up eventually selling them on? Is it different because they at least got some enjoyment out of the pony while they had it so even if they don't make much extra it was still worth it?