I never found her name offensive. Gypsy is a word for a free spirited, mysterious woman too. And its a popular horse name besides.
How about we let them decide, and follow their lead on it?
I'm also really tired of people using toys/media for a source of their social outrage and pet projects, because it takes energy and focus away from real life issues.
I know hyper focus on petty things goes back hundreds of years to music, dance, fashion and books, but this is still slapping band aids on bullet holes.
I choose to take a balanced view on this.
I've heard Tambourine as well.
But yeah, there was a long discussion about this in a past thread (her Pony of the Day one?). Seems to be a regional thing.
http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,401233.0.html
^ this was the thread
I'm not fond of the "It's not a slur to me" perspective, to be honest :huh:
I mean, think of something that is a slur to you. I'm talking unspeakably, we-can't-be-friends-if-you-say-it- bad. Would that be a slur to you if you'd never heard it before? It wouldn't, right? What if someone from a different country told you it's not a slur to them? Would you still be comfortable with Hasbro naming a pony that?
It's a complicated issue, of course, and I don't blame anyone for referring to a pony by her official name or anything like that. But I do think the idea of renaming her is a noble one, whether it catches on or not. Tambourine is a lovely name ^.^
I'm from Belgium so English isn't my first language, but I don't perceive this term as a slur or anything insulting. I would be interested to have the opinion of people from that community to have a clearer understanding of what it means to them.
We already had a discussion about this recently, I'm not from the Gypsy Roma or Traveller communities but from the UK and my take is that it's a non-issue. Gypsy isn't a slur here it's a title. In schools, we formally use the description Gypsy Roma and Traveller to describe any settled or non-settled people who identify as being members of these groups. It's important to distinguish children from these groups since they may have certain requirements like opting out of sex ed in schools or attending gatherings at certain times of the year during school term time. So we respectfully use these terms when discussing policy and procedure. I'm sorry that the situation is different abroad however I don't think that we can or should change her name. At least, I'd be surprised if it catches on. I didn't realise that she was a negative character however, could we see some examples?
This has definitely come up multiple times in the recent past on here. The concencus seemed to be that British people found the name not offensive while American people found it offensive. I can't recall what folks from other parts of Europe and the rest of the world thought. I believe the word originated in Britain (among non-Romani populations), so maybe that's a contributing factor..?
Really the word itself is kind of odd since it is based on a historical misidentification, like saying "Indian" and meaning certain native American tribes that have actual names...From what I read previously the Romani didn't seem to have a great deal of concencus on whether they found the term offensive or not. So it really feels like a gray area at least on the international stage. But maybe there is more consensus among them then I am aware of. To me, I get the feeling that the word's trajectory is toward slur. Like maybe it is ambiguous now but in thirty years it will end up more firmly in the slur category. I mean why would you continue to refer to a population by the name you gave them instead of the name they actually call themselves?
For what it's worth I always called my childhood ponies after their symbols rather than their given names, so if I had had her I certainly would have called her tambourine or whatever I interpreted those symbols to be.
For years, one of the key characters in the cult classic tv series Mystery Science Theater 3000 was a purple robot named Gypsy. She was the sole female robot on the satellite, and for most of the show's run, she was the only recurring woman character, albeit voiced a la Miss Piggy. While not as ubiquitous as the primary robots Tom Servo and Crow, she was still iconic to the show, and her name came from the creator's childhood pet.
The show came out in the early 90s and got a revival in the late 2010s. As of the 2019 live tour, some 30 years after having her name sung in the opening credits for the first time, they quietly changed her name to GPC. Some fans were displeased at how they could modify the name of such a long-running character ("why would you ruin my childhood?!") but most fans understood the logic behind it (I myself had been calling her "Gypsum" or "G" for years). It's a small thing, but it lets marginalized communities know that the world considers their safety more important than an attachment to a warped word meaning or a plastic piece of pop culture.
This always brings discourse out of the woodwork. I think it's best to recognize that it's a historically oppressive term. Tambourine is a lovely name.
While I'm here I'm also going to bring up Wigwam.
His name ISN'T a slur which is fine and okay. But he is based off a blatantly racist caricature. Of course, different times, but we also need to acknowledge this too, because it's in the same vein as G*psy.
While I'm here I'm also going to bring up Wigwam.
His name ISN'T a slur which is fine and okay. But he is based off a blatantly racist caricature. Of course, different times, but we also need to acknowledge this too, because it's in the same vein as G*psy.
But Wigwam isn't supposed to be a Native himself, he just likes to play Cowboys and Indians with Tex.
I never gave any conclusion to my previous comment. I was just saying "It doesn't sound offensive to me. Does it sound offensive to the targeted people ?" I never said it's okay to use Gypsy just because I don't think it's a slur. Like I said, only the targeted people have the final word on this debate.
Aside from this specific topic on the name "Gypsy", I'm not too huge on taboo-fying every word for x or y reason. It feels forbidden to openly and respectfully talk about some subjects because of that and that doesn't actually prevent people from using those in a disrespecful way. Because the issue isn't usually the word itself, but how and in which context it is used. I feel like that would decrease the awareness on our history in the long run and we'd repeat the same mistakes instead of learning from the past.
I never found her name offensive. Gypsy is a word for a free spirited, mysterious woman too. And its a popular horse name besides.
How about we let them decide, and follow their lead on it?
I'm also really tired of people using toys/media for a source of their social outrage and pet projects, because it takes energy and focus away from real life issues.
I know hyper focus on petty things goes back hundreds of years to music, dance, fashion and books, but this is still slapping band aids on bullet holes.
I choose to take a balanced view on this.
with regards to "g*psy* being used in official contexts, it's not unheard of or even uncommon for words that are considered slurs to have been used in everything from diagnoses to legal paperwork.
"mental r*tardation" was still a diagnosis that was in use up until the early aughts, when the DSM-5 changed it. the US census used to include terms for people of color that are recognized as slurs nowadays.
doesnt mean we have to dig in our heels though, language changes! its not a bad thing to adapt :-P
Gypsy is Gypsy.
The word Gypsy is not generally a slur in the UK which is where the character originates and it is used as a race identifier within official contexts. That is not to say that the word is accepted by everyone and words are often misused and change with time but it's easy enough to look the topic up within a UK context. To quote a recent parliamentary report:
"We asked many members of the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities how they preferred to describe themselves. While some find the term “Gypsy” to be offensive, many stakeholders and witnesses were proud to associate themselves with this term and so we have decided that it is right and proper to use it, where appropriate, throughout the report."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmwomeq/360/full-report.html (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmwomeq/360/full-report.html)
Also from the government website:
"The term ‘Gypsies and Travellers’ is difficult to define as it does not constitute a single, homogenous group, but encompasses a range of groups with different histories, cultures and beliefs including: Romany Gypsies, Welsh Gypsies, Scottish Gypsy Travellers and Irish Travellers. There are also Traveller groups which are generally regarded as ‘cultural’ rather than ‘ethnic’ Travellers. These include ‘New’ (Age) Travellers and occupational travellers, such as showmen and waterway travellers."
Obviously if there is a mass movement against the term in a UK context then I will rethink but at the moment there doesn't appear to be.
In my area both Gypsy and Traveller are used to refer to the two different communities that live in this area. The Travellers own caravans both static and non-static and the Gypsies live on the river in boats.
The comedian Ben Miller has told FHM magazine that he has been battling with the BBC over the use of the word "Gypsy" in a comedy sketch for his show with Alexander Armstrong, The Armstrong and Miller Show (which will be broadcast next month):Ben Miller thought it's an obviously racist term to the point where you can use it in an exaggerated comedy sketch, while the BBC thought it's too offensive. No, they aren't Travellers themselves, but that's not my point. If G*psy isn't considered a racist term within UK culture at all, why would they need to have this discussion?
"We're having a debate at the moment with the BBC over whether we can say Gypsies, because they say Gypsies is a racist term, and you think "Yes it is but that's the point that we're making, that we were more racist in the 70s than we are now".