The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Wardah on July 16, 2020, 02:49:28 PM

Title: Musings on G1
Post by: Wardah on July 16, 2020, 02:49:28 PM: Do you think MLP would have been as successful without the gimmicks? If there hadn't been any TAF, SS, TE, Sparkle, Glow and Shows or anything else besides just a plain normal mold vinyl horse with regular straight hair and a design on it's butt?

Conversely do you think they would have been successful if they had all the normal gimmicks but applied them to the same six ponies?

Also which would you personally have preferred? A large range of different normal ponies or the same six ponies with lots of different unique gimmicks?
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 16, 2020, 02:57:02 PM: No. The collect em all mentality MLP had for 3 decades makes it so popular. Not every gimmick was loved, and some aged terribly, but even the most unbeloved gimmicks are beloved by somebody. Its not Barbie or TMNT and it should never try to be.

Mane Six shelf sits where I am. Kids don't even seem to spare a glance, they might be feeling same toy fatigue
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Carrehz on July 16, 2020, 03:17:31 PM: I don't really get the question tbh... the gimmicks didn't really come in until ~1985 and MLP had been running for a good four years at that point, so they were obviously already popular.

I don't really care for gimmicks; I just want different characters. No more main six, please!
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Ponybookworm on July 16, 2020, 03:44:22 PM: Multiple characters always wins over same few, different attitude imo
We love variety. Just look at all the custom threads for proof of that xxx
Some gimmicks are take it or leave it, others rock socks due to sheer simplicity (Baby Sea Pony+ float= bath toy for example of simplicity)
But variety to me is the spice of Ponies & always has been
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Mana Minori on July 16, 2020, 03:56:43 PM: Most likely not. The gimmicks make the lines interesting and unique. Why settle for a repaint, when you can have a pretty pony with new a new pose and hair tinsel and batting eyes! Basically, like Pokémon, the gimmicks create a “catch em all!” Mentality
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: dragonfly on July 16, 2020, 04:12:27 PM: I think there's a distinction to be drawn between gimmicks and differentiation of design or character development.

I see the gimmicks as being in the more interactive releases of the series - Twisty Tails, BNG, eyelash sisters, light-up Princess Sparkle....I don't think that differentiation in species or design patterns counts as a gimmick. There was kind of slow slide....the glitter ponies, for example, flutter ponies are kind of borderline. I don't, for example, consider seaponies or TAF ponies to be gimmicks - just different iterations of the core MLP line. When you begin expanding the features and functions of the toy itself, then you get into gimmick territory. For example, I'd say that flutters are more gimmick-y than the wingers, even though the flutters came first. Sweet Pockets I'd consider to have a gimmick, but not so much the standard Princess ponies.

Children crave novelty! I don't think MLP would have had the same longevity without the variety. Kids are world-builders and I think the variety allows them to be more creative and imaginative in their play. It also allowed them to find ponies that paired with their preferences for color, pony personality, hobbies, etc etc. There really was something for everyone! I think that had Hasbro limited themselves to a more basic approach in design or execution, kids would have become bored and moved on to the next new thing - the genius in marketability of the MLP line was partially due to extending the line to reflect the current culture and trends, and pace alongside development of more traditional toy releases like Barbie, and add in similar features like playsets, outfits and accessories. It provided them with an avenue to provide many different options and avenues for kids to play with, while remaining loyal to the MLP line and not necessarily jumping ship in brand preference to Mattel or other competitors.

Additionally in the 1980s and early 90s, MLP had a platform that Baribie and most other "girl" toys did not (but Transformers and TMNJ did) which was a TV show that they leveraged in a unique way by paring the latter half of MLP & Friends or My Little Pony Tales with cartoon series of other Hasbro toy lines like Mr. Potato Head, Glow Worms, and Moondreamers.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Wardah on July 16, 2020, 04:23:32 PM: Quote from: Carrehz on July 16, 2020, 03:17:31 PM
I don't really get the question tbh... the gimmicks didn't really come in until ~1985 and MLP had been running for a good four years at that point, so they were obviously already popular.

I mean from a marketing point of view even the Rainbow Ponies were considered a gimmick at the time.

Quote from: Ponybookworm on July 16, 2020, 03:44:22 PM
Multiple characters always wins over same few, different attitude imo
We love variety. Just look at all the custom threads for proof of that xxx
Some gimmicks are take it or leave it, others rock socks due to sheer simplicity (Baby Sea Pony+ float= bath toy for example of simplicity)
But variety to me is the spice of Ponies & always has been

The customs threads are part of what got me thinking. There are a lot of customs that apply different gimmicks to gimmickless ponies.

Quote from: dragonfly on July 16, 2020, 04:12:27 PM
I think there's a distinction to be drawn between gimmicks and differentiation of design or character development.

Yeah I didn't really draw that kind of distinction. To me anything that deviated from simple ponies is at the very least a marketing gimmick.

Tbh most of this was prompted by the fact that G3, which had very few gimmicks but a large variety of ponies, only lasted 7 years in the US but G4, which had more gimmicks but a smaller variety of ponies, went on for 10 years in the US. G1 also lasted 10 years in the US. Maybe from a sales point of view, gimmicky variants are just "different enough"?
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: SunPony on July 16, 2020, 08:56:36 PM: I think the G1 line definitely benefited from both the range of gimmicks AND the number of different characters. It might have still survived as long, but maybe wouldn't have been AS popular. I remember as a kid being very interested in the variety of types of ponies, and that was reflected in my childhood herd. It might be worth noting that I didn't really play with them as their own characters very much? Like I didn't think of them as having their own personalities so much as being extensions of myself. So having a huge variety of characters wouldn't have interested me as much, but I think for more "collector" type kids, it would have. I also think the different gimmicks helped appeal to a broader age range of kids.

Also, maybe unrelated, but I think the playsets and gift packs helped maintain interest a lot as well.

It seems like G3 went with more characters and less gimmicks, as has been mentioned, while G4 went vice versa. Would be interesting to ask some actual kids if they think there are enough characters represented as toys for G4!
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on July 16, 2020, 09:45:01 PM: the gimmicks AND the "collect 'em all" idea kept the money rolling in for a number of years. Then I think it depended more on the gimmick, but the ideas were leeching out into other toylines. unfortunately it cost a lot more to have the variety.
that is probably why MLP went on the back burner until they were ready to do the Mane 6 thing and gave us the G3 design concept.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Nemesis on July 16, 2020, 10:01:59 PM: I definitely think variety and the collector mentality were a big part of MLP’s original appeal. That’s why the Core Seven/Mane Six marketing has always baffled me. :shrug: Obviously you want to keep popular characters available to newcomers... But on the other hand, if there’s always something new and exciting, the existing audience will STAY hooked and scramble to keep up with new releases. I’d be genuinely interested in hearing Hasbro’s marketing department explain the pros and cons of the different approaches they’ve taken over the years. :wonder:

In short, I don’t think MLP would have really taken off if they hadn’t continued to expand and innovate the way they did. Today, MLP is an established brand with a lot of history and nostalgia in its corner... but when it was just getting started, the massive cast of characters and variety of styles and gimmicks helped set it apart from the competition.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyAmalthea on July 16, 2020, 10:16:13 PM: Just my own musings and experience...as a kid I wasn't easily baited by gimmicks. I liked to assign my ponies their own personality and story, and sometimes the gimmick would be too distracting for me to make the pony who I wanted it to be or the way I wanted to play with it, if that makes any sense. The only time I ever remember being excited about a new gimmick coming out was when I found out there were going to be first tooth ponies (I was always interested in teeth at an early age...no surprise that I ended up in the orthodontic field as an adult!), and telling my best friend I wanted one for my birthday. Then when she got me one, I thought they were ugly and kind of hillbilly looking, the way the tooth stuck out like a buck-tooth. So that was disappointing.

I liked playsets, if those were considered gimmicky, (which they probably are) because it helped me build a world for the ponies to live in, but I wanted to use my imagination for who the ponies were. I just wanted new characters, and those characters having jewels for eyes, flocking, or eyes that open and close wasn't going to help me do that.

As for the question of whether I would have sought out copies of the same pony with different gimmicks...the answer is no, I don't think so. I remember when SS ponies came out, and some ponies that were previously released were then re-released as So Softs. My sister and I went through the checklist, basically crossing off ones we already owned; Posey, Lickety Split, Gusty, Surprise...we figured we didn't need them, since we already had a version, why did we need 2? I don't think I would have thrived very long as a child in the G4 world...I would have liked the show, most likely, but wouldn't have sought out the toys once I had one of every character I could easily get my hands on (meaning I'd probably only own 6 ponies and then give up and move on to something that had something fresh to offer).
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 16, 2020, 10:29:30 PM: Quote from: Nemesis on July 16, 2020, 10:01:59 PM
I definitely think variety and the collector mentality were a big part of MLP’s original appeal. That’s why the Core Seven/Mane Six marketing has always baffled me. :shrug: Obviously you want to keep popular characters available to newcomers... But on the other hand, if there’s always something new and exciting, the existing audience will STAY hooked and scramble to keep up with new releases. I’d be genuinely interested in hearing Hasbro’s marketing department explain the pros and cons of the different approaches they’ve taken over the years. :wonder:
The Core 7/Mane Six thing makes sense on the show end, since it's easier to develop a smaller cast. But it's a problem when that turns into a an overabundance of minimally-different toys of the same characters on the toyline end.

Quote from: Nemesis
In short, I don’t think MLP would have really taken off if they hadn’t continued to expand and innovate the way they did. Today, MLP is an established brand with a lot of history and nostalgia in its corner... but when it was just getting started, the massive cast of characters and variety of styles and gimmicks helped set it apart from the competition.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM: I think G1 and G4 are simply toy-first versus story-first. To me both are equally gimmicky and I think that’s just the way of toys past the first year.

G1 first expanded on what Hasbro was learning from relaunching GI Joe to make MLP into a collectible toy powerhouse. The cartoons were an afterthought created to sell more toys. Many kids I knew who had tons of ponies never watched the cartoons. I never had any ponies from the shows except Firefly and I think that would have really bothered me if most of my MLP experience had been through animation, books, comics, etc. But since G1 was toy-first I just made up my own stories.

Conversely G4 puts story first. The animation was developed and then toys were created to support it. Basically the opposite approach from G1 and obviously both have their place. I wonder if that sense of extreme approach is part of the reason why both lines enjoyed such longevity. Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 18, 2020, 10:47:08 AM: Alternately, something that is long live can also be dragged out. That's definitely the case in G4.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyAmalthea on July 18, 2020, 11:57:53 AM: Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Many kids I knew who had tons of ponies never watched the cartoons. I never had any ponies from the shows except Firefly and I think that would have really bothered me if most of my MLP experience had been through animation, books, comics, etc. But since G1 was toy-first I just made up my own stories.

Same here. I had many of my ponies and their stories established before I ever watched the show/movie, and it was actually kind of disconcerting to see them act different than the way I pictured them.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 18, 2020, 12:28:45 PM: Interesting questions!

I've been half-heartedly muddling around with my site recently and one realisation I had is there's a difference between how the 80s handle gimmicks and how the 90s does. In general, the really "wtf were hasbro thinking" gimmicks come in the 1990s. Things like the pocket ponies and surprise twins and rollerskaters and things.

For me the TAF and TE and so on are more like features than gimmicks. I get that they are the same in terms of selling points but you could easily say that introducing a unicorn, a pegasus, a sea pony - those were also gimmicks. So the idea that the first 'gimmick' happened in 1985 is probably not entirely accurate, it depends on what a gimmick really is. Is the symbol on the original six being different a gimmick? Is a pastel horse a gimmick? Probably it is.

On the other note, though, the whole thrust of G1 was the collectable mentality and the idea of sets and getting kids to collect them all. I have a bunch of cards and it's also in the G1 comic. This motif of "collect them all and step into the magical world of ponyland" (I think that's the quote). Pony collectafiles (actually called collector file, collector album, not "advertising sales pitch" LOL. SOme of them have ticklists as well. I know off the top of my head that in the UK the one with Strawberry Fair on the front and the 1992 ones both have tick lists - the first for each individual pony, the other for the set.

So the idea of a mane 6 wouldn't really have worked in G1. G1 needed all the variety to work. Not just with set themes but also species, sizes of pony, gender of pony, playsets and the whole of the world. And the idea of it being a world that the kids could collect and build and create but without dictating what form that world should take.

It's really quite impressive because MLP spanned a decade but never needed a core overriding 'canon' that bound everything together.

People give emphasis to the TV series but it was short, sporadic and covered so few ponies it's really an optional rather than an essential to G1. Whereas FIM is the core of G4. That's why the M6 has had currency, because the show has reinforced their importance. G1 has nothing to do that. We have ponies we think of as iconic, but it's different in different places and for different people.

The only real attempt at a cohesive canon across the span of MLP is the UK comic, which covers 85 to what, 93? And it does include almost every pony sold in the UK - but that doesn't incorporate ponies not sold here, and it switches in 93 to the Tales world, so that's two different versions as well. You really see that with how the personas for the Rockin Beats change.

I was often influenced to like a particular pony by the comic. But I never played a single game as a kid based on the comic stories. So I don't think even that was really enough of a 'canon' to be considered definitive. As others have said, G1 was toy first and so the toy's saleability was everything.

I think it's the idea of something for everybody that makes G1 work.

The real difference from G4 though is that G1 didn't have a crutch to build its success and popularity around. G3 and G4 (to a lesser degree G2, not so much there) had G1 already setting up the brand as something people could identify. THe real question is probably what kind of a line G4 would have been if G1 had never existed.

I remember them saying in the Toys That Made Us show that you probably wouldn't get a new toy like G1 MLP now because now toys are often drawing off stuff that already exists. And FIM is definitely in that category.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Nemesis on July 18, 2020, 01:43:19 PM: Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.

That’s a good observation—the trouble is that storylines and toylines have conflicting interests. A good storyline generally builds on a central cast and their evolving character arcs. Whereas a toyline ideally keeps things fresh and interesting, and avoids repeating itself to the point of being dull. G1’s constantly rotating character roster made it hard to flesh out a coherent story, but G4’s character-focused approach made it hard to move away from the central cast when designing toys. :shrug:

80s Transformers found themselves backed into a corner by the toyline/storyline conflict of interests. The established characters were beloved and iconic, but it was hard to keep squeezing in new characters as new toys were released. So... they decided to kill off all of those beloved characters in the theatrical film to make room for the new lineup. XD That uh... ended up being a controversial move.

Honestly, I think lines like American Girl handle things best, by having individual stories focused on separate characters. I would much rather have that for MLP than endless iterations of Twilight Sparkle. >_<
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 18, 2020, 02:05:12 PM: I think MH handled the balance of repeat character and new character pretty well in the modern climate. Before they G2ed it into oblivion, I mean.

I also do think that it's not a story vs toy thing though. The comic DID manage to knit together a world with a revolving cast of characters and this concept of memory lane, and certain times of the year when certain ponies would appear (like Fizzy in November) with common locations (like Rainbow Mountain) and so on.

The assumption G1 didn't have any overriding story canon is really true in America, where there really wasn't one, but in European countries there were comics that attempted to do this, by bringing backcard stories into a common world and sustaining it for several years. There was never a sense of ponies being replaced so much as new ones arrived and stories shifted quite naturally to these new sets.

The difference between that and FIM is what I said before - the G1 line didn't depend on kids buying into a story world. There was a story world and there was imaginative play and the comic never prevented one by providing the other.

Whereas FIM's lack of cast variety makes it a lot harder to create your own G4 world.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 19, 2020, 06:01:48 PM: Well, the cartoon tried to be an encompassing canon for as long as it lasted, giving all the new ponies and playsets days in the sun throughout its run (although some only got one or two appearances because of how much there was to cover).

I think the cartoon was in important driving force for G1's sales, but you're right that G1 MLP wasn't dependent on it like Transformers was.

Regarding FiM: Frankly, the lack of cast variety in the toyline from how badly oversaturated the Mane 6 were makes it hard to build the official G4 world too. After all, the official G4 world isn't predominantly populated by an endless supply of Mane 6 clones.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 19, 2020, 07:05:31 PM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 19, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
Well, the cartoon tried to be an encompassing canon for as long as it lasted, giving all the new ponies and playsets days in the sun throughout its run (although some only got one or two appearances because of how much there was to cover).

I think the cartoon was in important driving force for G1's sales, but you're right that G1 MLP wasn't dependent on it like Transformers was.

Regarding FiM: Frankly, the lack of cast variety in the toyline from how badly oversaturated the Mane 6 were makes it hard to build the official G4 world too. After all, the official G4 world isn't predominantly populated by an endless supply of Mane 6 clones.

Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: gabumon on July 22, 2020, 09:03:07 PM: I don’t mind the occasional gimmick or novel feature - as long as they also have new characters too.
for example: Loved the jewel-winged “flutter ponies” gimmick in G4 that had that new pink pony with golden hair. wow i forgot her name. Honey Flash??
(edit - Honey Rays)

So ya G1 did both of those I think. Though they did do SS versions of normal ponies. and technically Baby versions of existing characters.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 05:35:28 AM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 19, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
Well, the cartoon tried to be an encompassing canon for as long as it lasted, giving all the new ponies and playsets days in the sun throughout its run (although some only got one or two appearances because of how much there was to cover).

I think the cartoon was in important driving force for G1's sales, but you're right that G1 MLP wasn't dependent on it like Transformers was.

That's also probably regional. I am pretty sure aside the movie nothing MLP (except MAYBE RAMC in the early eighties) aired on TV in the UK until after G1 had ended (in 1995). (LITERALLY closing the gate after a bolting horse!) And then it was on Sky1, I think...which was a cable channel. We had to borrow videos from a friend as we didn't have cable then.

They were all bar one available on VHS, but unlike transformers, Heman, SheRa, thundercats etc, all of which I watched as a kid, MLP didn't seem like a proper TV show over here. And some of those VHS also came out well after the ponies they were talking about. I got Sweet Stuff & the Treasurehunt on VHS in around 1990.

...Very helpful. ;)

So maybe in the US it helped to drive it. Not here.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 23, 2020, 06:05:44 AM: Quote from: Nemesis on July 18, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.

80s Transformers found themselves backed into a corner by the toyline/storyline conflict of interests. The established characters were beloved and iconic, but it was hard to keep squeezing in new characters as new toys were released. So... they decided to kill off all of those beloved characters in the theatrical film to make room for the new lineup. XD That uh... ended up being a controversial move.

I still find it wild that they thought that was the best way to replace their cast. Can you imagine if they'd done that for MLP instead of quietly disappearing previous ponies? "Hey look kids, it's your friends Firefly and Sparkler and Applejack running over to greet you--OH NO, MONSTERS JUST ATTACKED! DEAD, THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GRUESOMELY EXECUTED BEFORE YOUR VERY EEEEEYES!!! So anyway, this is Magic Star, buy her toy."
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 06:21:53 AM: Quote from: LadyMoondancer on July 23, 2020, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Nemesis on July 18, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.

80s Transformers found themselves backed into a corner by the toyline/storyline conflict of interests. The established characters were beloved and iconic, but it was hard to keep squeezing in new characters as new toys were released. So... they decided to kill off all of those beloved characters in the theatrical film to make room for the new lineup. XD That uh... ended up being a controversial move.

I still find it wild that they thought that was the best way to replace their cast. Can you imagine if they'd done that for MLP instead of quietly disappearing previous ponies? "Hey look kids, it's your friends Firefly and Sparkler and Applejack running over to greet you--OH NO, MONSTERS JUST ATTACKED! DEAD, THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GRUESOMELY EXECUTED BEFORE YOUR VERY EEEEEYES!!! So anyway, this is Magic Star, buy her toy."

XD
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 23, 2020, 02:11:58 PM: Quote from: LadyMoondancer on July 23, 2020, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Nemesis on July 18, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.

80s Transformers found themselves backed into a corner by the toyline/storyline conflict of interests. The established characters were beloved and iconic, but it was hard to keep squeezing in new characters as new toys were released. So... they decided to kill off all of those beloved characters in the theatrical film to make room for the new lineup. XD That uh... ended up being a controversial move.

I still find it wild that they thought that was the best way to replace their cast. Can you imagine if they'd done that for MLP instead of quietly disappearing previous ponies? "Hey look kids, it's your friends Firefly and Sparkler and Applejack running over to greet you--OH NO, MONSTERS JUST ATTACKED! DEAD, THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GRUESOMELY EXECUTED BEFORE YOUR VERY EEEEEYES!!! So anyway, this is Magic Star, buy her toy."

:lol:
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 01:04:31 PM: ^Mind you, given all the horrible monster attacks throughout G1 I've seen some people speculate that stuff like that happened off-camera.

Quote from: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 05:35:28 AM
Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 19, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
Well, the cartoon tried to be an encompassing canon for as long as it lasted, giving all the new ponies and playsets days in the sun throughout its run (although some only got one or two appearances because of how much there was to cover).

I think the cartoon was in important driving force for G1's sales, but you're right that G1 MLP wasn't dependent on it like Transformers was.

That's also probably regional. I am pretty sure aside the movie nothing MLP (except MAYBE RAMC in the early eighties) aired on TV in the UK until after G1 had ended (in 1995). (LITERALLY closing the gate after a bolting horse!) And then it was on Sky1, I think...which was a cable channel. We had to borrow videos from a friend as we didn't have cable then.
Well, yeah, it's a regional thing. You had said "The assumption G1 didn't have any overriding story canon is really true in America", and I was countering that in fact the cartoon tried to serve as one here (for as long as it lasted) as well as a sales-driving force.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on July 24, 2020, 01:35:44 PM: Quote from: LadyMoondancer on July 23, 2020, 06:05:44 AM
Quote from: Nemesis on July 18, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: MyLittleMillennial on July 18, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
Maybe having a great story and a great toy line together is not so sustainable? I’m having trouble thinking of something that has.

80s Transformers found themselves backed into a corner by the toyline/storyline conflict of interests. The established characters were beloved and iconic, but it was hard to keep squeezing in new characters as new toys were released. So... they decided to kill off all of those beloved characters in the theatrical film to make room for the new lineup. XD That uh... ended up being a controversial move.

I still find it wild that they thought that was the best way to replace their cast. Can you imagine if they'd done that for MLP instead of quietly disappearing previous ponies? "Hey look kids, it's your friends Firefly and Sparkler and Applejack running over to greet you--OH NO, MONSTERS JUST ATTACKED! DEAD, THEY'RE ALL DEAD! GRUESOMELY EXECUTED BEFORE YOUR VERY EEEEEYES!!! So anyway, this is Magic Star, buy her toy."

*crying with laughter*
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 01:38:56 PM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
^Mind you, given all the horrible monster attacks throughout G1 I've seen some people speculate that stuff like that happened off-camera.

Quote from: Taffeta on July 23, 2020, 05:35:28 AM
Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 19, 2020, 06:01:48 PM
Well, the cartoon tried to be an encompassing canon for as long as it lasted, giving all the new ponies and playsets days in the sun throughout its run (although some only got one or two appearances because of how much there was to cover).

I think the cartoon was in important driving force for G1's sales, but you're right that G1 MLP wasn't dependent on it like Transformers was.

That's also probably regional. I am pretty sure aside the movie nothing MLP (except MAYBE RAMC in the early eighties) aired on TV in the UK until after G1 had ended (in 1995). (LITERALLY closing the gate after a bolting horse!) And then it was on Sky1, I think...which was a cable channel. We had to borrow videos from a friend as we didn't have cable then.
Well, yeah, it's a regional thing. You had said "The assumption G1 didn't have any overriding story canon is really true in America", and I was countering that in fact the cartoon tried to serve as one here (for as long as it lasted) as well as a sales-driving force.

I guess it depends on how much people think it was successful, and I admit, I can't judge that, as I didn't grow up there :) When you have a canon that spans eight plus years, one that jumps in and out with a handful of episodes sometimes seems a bit weak compared to for example, the many many backcard stories the US line put out.

The US did have backcards as early as year 2, and comprehensive ones compared to what the UK put out up until around 1988-9, when they adopted the US ones for a bit and then branched out into their own more detailed ones. From an outsider POV, I would have thought if the US had a canon, that was the more robust one, but since nobody ever mentions it, I kind of assume there isn't really a canon in the US.

But I also don't really like the G1 series that much xD. I like it more since FIM happened, but I never was a big fan, so maybe that bias is in there as well.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 02:33:47 PM: I esteem the cartoon to be the primary canon for the US, at least through its run, because over its 1984-1987 run of 2 specials, a movie, and 61 eleven-minute episodes (not counting the 2-episode split versions of the specials) it incorporated as many of the ponies and playsets as possible into one big ongoing story and world, changing or overwriting backcard bios as it pleased (The Transformers did much the same). Cost, runtime, the need to advertise new product, and the sheer number of ponies limited how much each character could be fleshed out, of course, but it still managed to give life an personality to plenty of ponies and locales, and send them on adventures (like the comics did in the UK and elsewhere) before Griffin-Bacal capped it.

I tend to think of the backcard stories on either side of the pond as supplemental canon (at least where not contradicted by the larger story material); a set of brief "Who's who" stories for each pony.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 24, 2020, 02:35:42 PM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 02:33:47 PM
I esteem the cartoon to be the primary canon for the US, at least through its run, because through its 1984-1987 run of 2 specials, a movie, and 61 eleven-minute episodes it incorporated as many of the ponies and playsets as possible into one big ongoing story and world, changing or overwriting backcard bios as it pleased (The Transformers did much the same). Cost, runtime, the need to advertise new product, and the sheer number of ponies limited how much each character could be fleshed out, of course, but it still managed to give life an personality to plenty of ponies and locales, and send them on adventures (like the comics did in the UK and elsewhere) before Griffin-Bacal capped it.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 02:41:26 PM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 02:33:47 PM
I esteem the cartoon to be the primary canon for the US, at least through its run, because over its 1984-1987 run of 2 specials, a movie, and 61 eleven-minute episodes (not counting the 2-episode split versions of the specials) it incorporated as many of the ponies and playsets as possible into one big ongoing story and world, changing or overwriting backcard bios as it pleased (The Transformers did much the same). Cost, runtime, the need to advertise new product, and the sheer number of ponies limited how much each character could be fleshed out, of course, but it still managed to give life an personality to plenty of ponies and locales, and send them on adventures (like the comics did in the UK and elsewhere) before Griffin-Bacal capped it.

I tend to think of the backcard stories on either side of the pond as supplemental canon (at least where not contradicted by the larger story material); a set of brief "Who's who" stories for each pony.

I think if the series had run for longer then it probably would've done the same job as the comic. Although its cast was a lot more limited in the same time frame as the comic was, it did still try to incorporate new stuff into the later eps. It just didn't resonate to me as a British kid when half the ponies had the wrong names/wrong personalities or 'didn't exist' (not sold here). And was not quite as accessible overall.

There are some really good eps in the G1 series and then there are others. I guess we'll leave it as that.

But better than FIM.

The irony is that a bunch of the early personas in the UK comic are based on US backcards xD.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 24, 2020, 03:42:00 PM: Probably because of how truncated the UK backcard blurbs were until the later years. The Flutters were particularly bad from what I've seen - most of it is copypasted between them, with only one unique line. And not many lines in total, so not a lot of information to work with.

I understand about the cartoon not being accessible in the UK, what I'm saying about it only applies to the US. I think it basically did the same job here as the comics did for you, it just wasn't allowed to do it for as long. And of course, we didn't get a comic here... Stupid US comic market.

FiM at its best is decent... But boy howdy are so many episodes sub-par.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 24, 2020, 05:17:45 PM: Eh, I love the flutter pony poems. As a kid I knew them all by heart (please note, I was 5 when I had the fact file. Don't judge me). Now I can only remember the one from the pony I actually owned, but I thought they were cute.

Though I have one MIB Flutter from the US and she has a proper story. And so do my French boxed ones.

I still prefer the poems though...
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 12:16:45 AM: Sorry for coming off so harsh. The poems are pretty, they just don't give much information about the individual ponies for a writer or artist to work with.

I've seen some people question why Majesty never appeared in the cartoon, and I think I have the answer (beyond the factor of Megan also supplying a leader role; she didn't start that way after all). The answer comes to me from the production bible for sister series The Transformers, where the character Buzzsaw had a note saying he was to be used sparingly; this is because he was bundled in with Soundwave and thus didn't need to be advertised.
Majesty is in a similar boat - between Dream Castle itself being advertised, and the other pack-in character Spike being advertised, she didn't also need to be worked in. I'm fairly sure the same applies to Sundance and Baby Sundance's minimal screentime.

My headcanon for the in-universe reason is that she was away on a quest that kept her busy for a few years.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyAmalthea on July 28, 2020, 05:40:10 AM: By the time the show aired, the Dream Castle (and subsequently, Majesty) was no longer available in stores, at least where I lived. Therefore, nothing was to be benefitted by featuring ponies that couldn't be purchased...even the movie was a big fat promotion for the Paradise Estate, and the TV show featured other, newer playsets and the ponies that came with them, i.e. Baby Half Note and the Baby Bonnet school of dance, as well as Scoops and the Satin Slipper. I'm actually surprised that Spike was so heavily featured, when there was no way to purchase him at that point (although he did become available by mail order somewhere in those years).
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Carrehz on July 28, 2020, 07:00:33 AM: Wildshadow posted some pics of her copy of the series bible at one point, and IIRC that actually does list Majesty amongst the other characters (and Peachy, I think?). So she was considered for the cartoon. I assume they didn't go with her because of what LadyAmalthea said - no point in advertising her.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 09:34:03 AM: Where's the thread for that? That would be interesting. And actually, she did get a mail-order rerelease, but I believe it was after the show ended.

Quote from: LadyAmalthea on July 28, 2020, 05:40:10 AM
By the time the show aired, the Dream Castle (and subsequently, Majesty) was no longer available in stores, at least where I lived. Therefore, nothing was to be benefitted by featuring ponies that couldn't be purchased...even the movie was a big fat promotion for the Paradise Estate, and the TV show featured other, newer playsets and the ponies that came with them, i.e. Baby Half Note and the Baby Bonnet school of dance, as well as Scoops and the Satin Slipper. I'm actually surprised that Spike was so heavily featured, when there was no way to purchase him at that point (although he did become available by mail order somewhere in those years).
I think it's because he was one of the few male characters as well as a non-pony character, and thus gave a little extra cast variety. He became a mail-order at the time of the movie.

Rescue at Midnight Castle and Escape from Katrina are part of the cartoon, and they both feature Dream Castle; it was on the shelves when they originally aired..
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Lilja on July 28, 2020, 10:52:31 AM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 12:16:45 AM
I've seen some people question why Majesty never appeared in the cartoon, and I think I have the answer (beyond the factor of Megan also supplying a leader role; she didn't start that way after all). The answer comes to me from the production bible for sister series The Transformers, where the character Buzzsaw had a note saying he was to be used sparingly; this is because he was bundled in with Soundwave and thus didn't need to be advertised.
Majesty is in a similar boat - between Dream Castle itself being advertised, and the other pack-in character Spike being advertised, she didn't also need to be worked in. I'm fairly sure the same applies to Sundance and Baby Sundance's minimal screentime.

I think this is the most likely reason. Especially since no other playset ponies are featured in the first two specials either, even though most playsets were. And even if Majesty had been on the cartoon, she may not necessarily have been the queen/leader figure she was in the UK comic and US storybooks.

This is very much pure speculation on my part, but I suspect for the specials the ponies were mostly written as blank slates and it was up to Hasbro which ponies they wanted to feature in them.

Maybe when Escape from Catrina was originally written, some of the roles were intended for ponies from the first special. It would've made sense if Firefly was the one to bring Megan back to Dream Valley rather than Skydancer (who was basically just a cameo), and Sundance could've originally been Applejack, continuing the bonding between her and Megan from the first special (and being clumsy and jumping for apples both relates to Applejack's backcard story). But then this role had to be filled by Sundance to better tie in with the toy release.

Then again, Bow-Tie was the pony who was good at jumping in the first special, so maybe I'm ascribing more thought to the writing process than there actually was. :biggrin: But Bow-Tie being given this ability seems pretty random, right? Nothing about her toy or backcard story relates to jumping. If any pony was going to be portrayed as a good jumper it should've been Lemon Drop! (but of course, no playset ponies allowed)
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 11:12:14 AM: It would be interesting to know what would have been in any episode that might have included y2 rainbow ponies. If that was ever more than just animation for the commercial, which I am not sure is confirmed.

DC was still in stores here when all of the MLP series aired xD We had it through till maybe 1987 or even at a push 1988. I know it was still in some of Europe in 1988. But that wouldn't have influenced the US animators of course. She had a much greater presence here.

I still think that Majesty might have been left out because of all the difficulty of how to patch her into the story. Would she be custodian of DC? Would she be a Queen or a ruler figure? But that role basically got given to Megan and you get the impression they're completely hopeless without little humanoid running in to the rescue.

I also feel that the mystery rainbow pony may have been sort of Peachy but not Peachy. Not necessarily a prototype but maybe originally designed to be Peachy and then animated out to something else. Maybe even a nod to the animation company, given the symbol. Again, Grooming Parlour was still sold here in blue till 87 but I think it stopped fairly early in the US.

BowTie jumping is a bit odd, maybe just random for the story - or another edit in to remove a playset pony. Over here it would've been Butterscotch, as she was apparently supposed to be the clear round pony, but...I guess it gave her a role in the story which otherwise she would not have had.

@ZeldatheSwordsman - it's fine, the flutter poems on their own are just cute poems. (Though they are cute xD) But the stories happened in the comics, so it balanced. Although I suspect that the characters in the comic may have been influenced by the US cards, it happened a lot back then. I only have Morning Glory for the US packaging though and I was never that interested in the first set as a kid. Only the second.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyAmalthea on July 28, 2020, 11:23:34 AM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 09:34:03 AM
Where's the thread for that? That would be interesting. And actually, she did get a mail-order rerelease, but I believe it was after the show ended.

Quote from: LadyAmalthea on July 28, 2020, 05:40:10 AM
By the time the show aired, the Dream Castle (and subsequently, Majesty) was no longer available in stores, at least where I lived. Therefore, nothing was to be benefitted by featuring ponies that couldn't be purchased...even the movie was a big fat promotion for the Paradise Estate, and the TV show featured other, newer playsets and the ponies that came with them, i.e. Baby Half Note and the Baby Bonnet school of dance, as well as Scoops and the Satin Slipper. I'm actually surprised that Spike was so heavily featured, when there was no way to purchase him at that point (although he did become available by mail order somewhere in those years).
I think it's because he was one of the few male characters as well as a non-pony character, and thus gave a little extra cast variety. He became a mail-order at the time of the movie.

Rescue at Midnight Castle and Escape from Katrina are part of the cartoon, and they both feature Dream Castle; it was on the shelves when they originally aired..

True...I guess I didn't see them until they aired alongside MLP and Friends on TV a few years later, and they were all mixed up together and in random order, so as a kid I assumed they were all part of the same show. Perhaps when those 2 specials aired they weren't as sales-focused as they became in later years.

I just looked, and I have the pamphlet (printed 1987) where Spike is available for $2 + 1 horseshoe point! Wish I could still send that in and get him now! Pretty Parlor was $7, baby buggy $9. So cheap!
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 12:33:19 PM: Oh, they were totally sales-focused when the specials aired, hence why none of the RaMC ponies show up in EfC. They probably had a tighter limit on speaking and action parts, especially since the specials were made with more expensive animation than the series.

$7 is a markdown from the Parlor's original price of $11.99, which would be almost $30 in today's money.

@Taffeta Hey now, there are adventures where things get done without Megan's help and leadership, or the magic weapon they entrusted her with. I think the times where she was visiting already for social reasons (so may as well have her along) outnumber the times they specifically went to get her to help by a significant margin.
In any case, Majesty and Dream Castle were old product by the time the regular episodes started.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Carrehz on July 28, 2020, 12:43:42 PM: I've always thought the rainbow pony *had* to have been originally scripted/boarded/whatever as Peachy, and then switched to the mystery pony halfway through production (the best theory I've heard is that Hasbro knew they were making rainbow ponies and wanted to promote 'em, but didn't have any finalized designs yet, so they just told the Sunbow designers to make something up). I mean, why else would she have Twinkles the cat? I don't think it would have been particularly difficult to just swap one model out for another. Wouldn't surprise me if one of the RaMC unicorns started off as Majesty and got switched for w/e reason, either.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 28, 2020, 02:15:28 PM: Great point on "Buzzsaw Syndrome"!

I think this would also explain why Lemon Drop wasn't in the special. IIRC Megan's home resembled the Show Stable. So . . . job done, it's been advertised! No need for Lemon Drop.

And then they made that store exclusive of it that was literally called "Megan's Place."

I sort of wonder if the "mystery pony" in RaMC was originally going to be Peachy (since she's carrying Twinkles the cat) but then Hasbro said, "Wait a minute, you need to put a Rainbow Pony in there." But maybe they didn't actually explain what that meant or provide any character models so the show people just drew the most rainbowy pony they could imagine: rainbow hair with a rainbow on her butt. :P

I know some people compare Mystery Pony to the First Born porcelain but I think it's a coincidence. White pony + rainbow hair is just a popular, generic design. (Whisper the Winged Unicorn, Lisa Frank unicorns, Starlite, etc.)
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Lilja on July 28, 2020, 02:50:39 PM: I'd assume the first special began development at the same as Hasbro was planning out the second year of the toyline, which would explain why there are some discrepancies (like the generic rainbow pony). I don't think the writers were looking at the finished ponies and deciding their personalities based on their designs. The very first outline probably described the characters along the lines of "pony #1 the one that jumps", "pony #2 the one who gets captured", "the pegasus who brings the heroine", "the unicorn who uses magic" etc. I think Hasbro decided (or at least had a lot of influence over) which ponies would be put into those slots.

It makes sense that the main pegasus and unicorn became the pink ones, Hasbro probably thought they would be big sellers because of their color. The two most prominent earth ponies are the ones that were newly released for that year and were in a more conventional pose. Bow-Tie doesn't make sense as the athletic, jumping pony based on her design, but still got put into that role. Twilight having wishing magic does make sense with her star symbol, but it would've made even more sense for Glory with her shooting star symbol. But of course, Glory is not pink, so she is in the background as the rollerskating pony (also a very random choice for her).

Similarly I don't think the Show Stable and Pretty Parlor were high priority because they were released in the first year and not "hot new products" at the time (Megan's stable looks similar to Show Stable, but it's on screen for a very short time) . Dream Castle on the other hand was new (and the most expensive playset) for 1984 and thus features very prominently. The Waterfall technically isn't in the special, but a lot of focus is put on clouds and the rainbowed colored water fall, so it's kind of there in spirit. Megan and Firefly's song number where they play around in the clouds seems to evoke the idea of playing with foam in the bath, or maybe that was just my interpretation as a kid. xD
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM: Rollerskating - rollerskating outfit nudge? Or too early? I am not sure what year ponywear happened in the US.

@ZeldatheHorseman - I just can't stand Megan. xD. She was blissfully absent from 95% of the comics. It was wonderful. The ponies got to save each other themselves.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Strawberry Swirl on July 28, 2020, 03:25:11 PM: I think the main reason pony was as successful as it was, was the Gotta catch em all! aspect. Most people know kids and adults alike like to collect things, don't we? But it's less of a collect-a-thon with the same thing being put out. I still really like G4 for what it is but I think Hasbro has totally forgotten what made MLP a success. And I hate to say it but I don't anticipate them remembering that unless somebody like us comes in and makes them go back to creating different characters.

Post Merge: July 28, 2020, 03:26:42 PM

Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
@ZeldatheHorseman - I just can't stand Megan. xD. She was blissfully absent from 95% of the comics. It was wonderful. The ponies got to save each other themselves.

I understand why she was the "main character" in the animation but yes. I don't hate her but if you're making a series about ponies, how come they take a back seat in the cartoon, especially in an era where pretty much every toy got its own cartoon?
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Lilja on July 28, 2020, 03:31:13 PM: Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Rollerskating - rollerskating outfit nudge? Or too early? I am not sure what year ponywear happened in the US.

I'm fairly sure the only reason she is on roller skates is because Hasbro knew they were making a rollerskating accessory pack (seems like an extremely random thing to throw in otherwise). But possibly the full outfit hadn't been designed yet at that point, because if it had been I'm sure she would've been wearing it. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:32:31 PM: Quote from: Lilja on July 28, 2020, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Rollerskating - rollerskating outfit nudge? Or too early? I am not sure what year ponywear happened in the US.

I'm fairly sure the only reason she is on roller skates is because Hasbro knew they were making a rollerskating accessory pack (seems like an extremely random thing to throw in otherwise). But possibly the full outfit hadn't been designed yet at that point, because if it had I'm sure she would've been wearing it. :biggrin:

Rollerskating is particularly 'eighties' I guess ;)
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: brightberry on July 28, 2020, 03:34:40 PM: As a kid, it was pretty much impossible for me to "catch them all" before stores moved to the next set. I just didn't have that kind of money and my parents were not going to buy me all the ponies. I got them as presents for my birthday and Christmas and that was it. So I just picked my favorites. I never knew any kids that had all of the ponies. Most of us only had a few each.

Even so, it was so exciting when new ponies came out! I didn't mind the So-soft and Twinkle-Eyed gimmicks. But as time progressed, I quickly started losing track of them all.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 03:36:32 PM: Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Rollerskating - rollerskating outfit nudge? Or too early? I am not sure what year ponywear happened in the US.
Ponywear was out in 1984, so I am pretty sure that's a nudge for Great Skates, yes. The animators evidently working from the finalized product, though, since the skates don't match up and she doesn't have the rest of the paraphernalia (as opposed to when pony wear showed up in the regular episodes). It inspired me to buy Great Skates, and Glory.
In any case, rollerskating unicorn = beautiful

Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
@ZeldatheHorseman - I just can't stand Megan. xD. She was blissfully absent from 95% of the comics. It was wonderful. The ponies got to save each other themselves.
Aw, I like her. She's kinda like MLP's equivalent of Dorothy (book Dorothy in particular). And the way I see it, it was her pony friends who molded her into a leader in the first place.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyAmalthea on July 28, 2020, 04:02:42 PM: There was one episode/special that had a fashion show at the end (Escape from Catrina maybe?), where the ponies paraded all of the Ponywear out...it was definitely a blatant display of advertising! Not sure if the roller skating outfit was part of that one as well, but I imagine it sold a lot of pony outfits.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 04:03:49 PM: ~~Also not a fan of the Wizard of Oz.~~

I mostly had one pony from a set, and never one from all the ponies in the year. I had more than one pony from a couple of sets - Mountain Boys and Party Ponies I had 3 of each. And I had one princess new and one second hand. The only complete set I ever had was the Rockin' Beats.

But the idea of collecting them all was pushed so hard.

I was always happy if I had different ponies from my friends and my sister. I would actively choose not to buy certain ponies when I knew they already had them (I remember this especially with Bouquet).

Dressed like a Dream is at the end of Escape from Catrina :) Don't think the rollerskates outfit is in that though. It would've been out in the UK at that time but maybe not in the US.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: LadyMoondancer on July 28, 2020, 04:15:44 PM: I think I would have liked Megan better if she was purely a sidekick / wide-eyed human who had to have the ponies' world explained to her, and one of the ponies was the Noble Pony Leader.

(Or they could have a committee or be a Pony Collective, I don't care about their system of government just please not Megan as the defacto leader. Just make her the Spike Witwicky of G1 MLP and I'm fine with her.)
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: flutterscotch on July 28, 2020, 04:25:27 PM: Yes, I think the venn diagram of hair play, cute pastel things, and horses are things that will always be appealing to a subset of children. It was a stroke of marketing genius to be honest.

I stopped wanting them as a kid when the gimmicks really got ramped up. When the "My Little Pony Mommy" commercials started was when I noped out or wanting new ones as a kid, I had Firefly and her baby, Glory and her baby, Blossom and her baby and Cotton Candy and her baby...I did not wanna be a My Little Pony Grandma by the age of 8. So I got one So Soft, and that was about it, and poor Buttons was always "the bad guy". Did not like the cartoons, my ponies battled dragons and lived at Snake Mountain when they weren't playing the "carousel game". So I really only got a solid 2-3 years of collecting as a child and they are still The Most Nostalgic Thing™ for me.

I may have wanted updated versions like when TAF Milky Way came out and I really wanted her to be an extra-fancy Twilight, but honestly how many of the same figure did you need? After all, I only had one Strawberry Shortcake, and didn't want the Party Pleaser because the original was enough. It definitely would have been weird to have more than one Megan. And I didn't like her that much anyway. Probably jealousy.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 04:30:03 PM: @LadyMoondancer
Except then people would call her a useless sidekick character who deserves to be disemboweled with a turkey baster or something, given some of the whinging I've seen on Transformers forums (I don't share that sentiment, but I've seen it entirely too often :mad:)...

I see her as a valued friend who they can rely on in a spot, and who they trust with one of their most powerful weapons, but aren't hopeless without. And IMO she was shown to grow into and earn the leadership role (After first not believing she could be any use to them). I would see her as subordinate to Majesty if Majesty was present (in my head, Majesty = queen, supreme leader while Megan = knight + steward).

Quote from: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 04:03:49 PM
Dressed like a Dream is at the end of Escape from Catrina :) Don't think the rollerskates outfit is in that though. It would've been out in the UK at that time but maybe not in the US.
Great Skates was out in the US the preceding year, so by the time of EfC it was last year's product. "Dressed Like a Dream" features:
* Sweet Dreams (the one 1983-1984 set in the sequence)
* Party Time, Pom Pom Pony
* Ready For Rainbows
* From the Designer Collection (simplified, but you can tell by the earring and the color of the purple)
* Hearts and Candy
* Lights, Camera, Action (also simplified, but the color and the masquerade mask/movie star glasses make it clear)
* Pageant Queen
* Sweetness and Lace
* Pony Luv
* Something Old, Something New
And a made-up-for-animation baby version of "Pony Royal" (with a different crown), worn by Baby Moondancer.
That sequence is also notable as the only appearance of Megan's default dress in the cartoon.
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 04:46:09 PM: The end of Escape from Catrina - maybe the whole episode given the cast - always reminds me of the Jem ep Glitter and Gold...the pseudo start-non start of season 2 of Jem, which is basically a glorified advertisement for the year's new dolls and most importantly, fashions. It's even called 'Glitter and Gold' which is the name of a Jem line of outfits and also releases of both Jem and Rio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx_N8NJHcfo
^^ brief clip (showing off GnG Jem, Rio and the new Rockin' Roadster look)
~~It's a horrible song I apologise.~~

Promoting new fashions in the show was pretty much a thing anyway but that one episode is just...in your face. And Dressed like a Dream reminds me of that. Or the other way round. Either or. Well done Hasbro.

I actually made a cape like that for Baby Moondancer when I got her. I say made. I stole a random red cape I had in a carboot lot from a barbie and my keyper Princess's crown xD. Probably have a photo somewhere, since I recreated Dressed like a Dream.

...Not sure about Megan's dress though. We didn't have that here, ours had a different outfit when the set was released in 86, and she wasn't a priority for me, so it was a while till I had one of those.

I do remember as a kid actively saying I didn't want Sundance because I didn't want Megan.

And this without really seeing Megan in the TV show, because by the time I saw an episode with her in she was no longer on sale. Plus she was barely in the comics. So I took against her because she was blond haired and blue eyed and all dolls at the time here seemed to be blond haired and blue eyed.

The irony being that I was also blond haired and blue eyed at the time. But I never wanted a doll that looked like me, I wanted a doll that was interesting and not just a smaller version of Barbie :/

Not really sure whether my Megan hate stems from that or the fact that she got to go to ponyland and I was jealous. But as an adult it's because she's a really annoying character in the animation 90% of the time.

Fun fact, Jem also has a kid called Danny in one ep, with freckles and red hair. He's a runaway. I always headcanon some wonderful trauma involving Megan being bossy - who honestly, would probably get on great with Jerrica ><
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 05:08:51 PM: @Taffeta
Megan's dress in "Dressed Like a Dream" is the one her first release in the US came with, and that's the only time it shows up. At all other times she's either in outfits made up for the cartoon, or "Megan and Pony Wear" outfits.

Megan comes off as responsible, kind, and supportive of her friends to me when I watch. I personally imagine that as extending to things like midwifery for mother ponies when needed (based on her farmgirl background).
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Taffeta on July 28, 2020, 05:10:45 PM: Quote from: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 05:08:51 PM
@Taffeta
Megan's dress in "Dressed Like a Dream" is the one her first release in the US came with, and that's the only time it shows up. At all other times she's either in outfits made up for the cartoon, or "Megan and Pony Wear" outfits.=

Yes, I know it is xD But the UK didn't have the first release Megan dress everywhere else in the world had. We had the jumpsuit with the wrap skirt, and then in 1987, Country Jamboree.
Spoiler
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(I figure you know this but ref image for anyone who isn't sure what I mean).

So I had to go to actual effort to get the US dress and I can't remember now whether I had it or not when I did DLAD with my ponies.

We're going back almost 20 years and my brain is getting old ;)
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: ZeldaTheSwordsman on July 28, 2020, 05:29:00 PM: Ahhh okay. I missed the part about you reenacting it with your ponies ^^;
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Wardah on July 28, 2020, 06:35:58 PM: Quote from: Strawberry Swirl on July 28, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
I think the main reason pony was as successful as it was, was the Gotta catch em all! aspect. Most people know kids and adults alike like to collect things, don't we? But it's less of a collect-a-thon with the same thing being put out. I still really like G4 for what it is but I think Hasbro has totally forgotten what made MLP a success. And I hate to say it but I don't anticipate them remembering that unless somebody like us comes in and makes them go back to creating different characters.

Quote from: brightberry on July 28, 2020, 03:34:40 PM
As a kid, it was pretty much impossible for me to "catch them all" before stores moved to the next set. I just didn't have that kind of money and my parents were not going to buy me all the ponies. I got them as presents for my birthday and Christmas and that was it. So I just picked my favorites. I never knew any kids that had all of the ponies. Most of us only had a few each.

I think that's why they came out with the Blind Bag ponies. At 3 bucks a pop it's a lot easier to "catch them all".
Title: Re: Musings on G1
Post by: Leave a Whisper on July 29, 2020, 10:06:03 AM: I like Megan. Not her doll, because I'm not a doll person, but I liked her in show. Its lots of kids dreams to go on an adventure.