Detail geek with obligatory correction note.
In Generation 1 Hasbro actually marketed the symbols as 'Rump Designs'. It mostly appears on UK promotion material (I grew up calling them rump marks because of that) but its inclusion in the documentary demonstrates it came from the US mothership originally.
For example:
Nobody in the community denies the term cutie mark exists, just that it doesn't apply pre G3, which is a: fact, and b: supported by the documentary describing its introduction.
Collectors mostly just agreed that symbol was the most generic and easiest way to refer to those things prior to G3 happening, but the correct term for them in G1 is rump mark/rump design.
To answer your question about Firefly, yes, the toy is actually just like that. :P I guess they wanted to squeeze in Firefly because she's one of the more mainstream G1 characters, but that means they chose her over Snuzzle. XD Applejack is very recognizable too, AND she's an earth pony. But I guess she's not as "cool"...
I haven't taken any pictures of her except for a photoshoot I did a few months ago...
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Detail geek with obligatory correction note.
In Generation 1 Hasbro actually marketed the symbols as 'Rump Designs'. It mostly appears on UK promotion material (I grew up calling them rump marks because of that) but its inclusion in the documentary demonstrates it came from the US mothership originally.
For example:
Nobody in the community denies the term cutie mark exists, just that it doesn't apply pre G3, which is a: fact, and b: supported by the documentary describing its introduction.
Collectors mostly just agreed that symbol was the most generic and easiest way to refer to those things prior to G3 happening, but the correct term for them in G1 is rump mark/rump design.
The thread for Toys That Made Us (http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,397111.75.html) isn't locked, though? :what:
I think "rump design" wasn't as well-known a term when "symbol" was coined, and IIRC "cutie mark" didn't really catch on until G4 because initially no one was sure if it referred to the rump symbol or the hoof heart? And by the time that was straightened out, everyone was more used to "symbol". Or something.
Personally I just think "cutie mark" sounds ridiculously stupid (always have done, in fact - Animaniacs used the term far before MLP did, and I disliked it there, too :P) so that's why I prefer "symbol".
Ragamuffin, that photo is SO CUTE omg!!!! I didn't realize they were Sylvanian sized!! aaaaaaAAAAA!!!! :drunk:
As for using the term CM - I think you can use it as you like for your own collection, but it isn't commonly used among pre-G3 collectors and in this space very little at all. Honestly, I would assume someone using it for their ponies was either a brony or didn't know much about MLP yet, because of using brony terminology.
Especially on the Arena, since many G1 fans here have said in the past they dislike the term being used on a generation that existed before Hasbro created it.
It's just a precedent that was set in the early community, I imagine. I do attribute it to Bronies because of the prevalence of the term in FiM and that there is the tendency to try to look at previous gens through the same lens as FiM in that the symbol/CM/RD must have some occupational/passion-linked significance (similarly to the G2/MLPT thing).
I did not read Taffeta's message as insulting towards you. I did not live through the influx of Bronies in the 2010's on the collecting community but I can imagine that the time period left a bit of an impression on many of the people who've been here for a while.
I hope I'm articulating myself correctly, ha.
Wait, wait, wait, wait!!!!!!
When did cutie mark become brony terminology? We just watched a show where they said the official term for the unique paintings on their butt as cutie mark. They didn't specify what generation that term is used for, so one can assume it's for ALL generations. I know very little about bronies and use that term.
I've always called them cutie marks, and those here who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show!
Wait, wait, wait, wait!!!!!!
When did cutie mark become brony terminology? We just watched a show where they said the official term for the unique paintings on their butt as cutie mark. They didn't specify what generation that term is used for, so one can assume it's for ALL generations. I know very little about bronies and use that term.
No, we didn't. We watched a show that talked about the term being introduced for later generations.
Rump design appeared on G1 cards. Cutie mark on G3 cards. It's as simple as that. It's not an argument or an insult, it's a statement of provable fact. Those were the terms Hasbro used for each generation.
Before the CM term existed, the term rump mark did get discussion here in the community. CM only became a thing for G4, hence why it's considered brony terminology. I never said the bronies invented it - I said quite clearly it was official, but only post G3. It's mostly used by bronies.
Obviously if a generation predates a term then using it is anachronistic.
Also, the implication anyone in the community here would not talk to or trade with a person because they used CM is ridiculous. Nobody is going to do that. On the contrary, people are more likely to give you more information than you need because they assume you're still learning about older MLP, rather than the opposite.
The nub of this is that I am a detail geek, and I like facts.
I don't have a problem with you choosing what terms you use (although you will create misconceptions with people here, it can't be helped, it's just how things are). I don't jump on every post made by someone using CM, even if I don't like it. It's not that which prompted me to reply to you.
I had some problems with the tone of this remark:QuoteI've always called them cutie marks, and those here who argue that is not at all what those are called can kiss it as it was called cutie marks in the show!
Aside the fact nobody has ever claimed CM didn't exist as a term, this isn't exactly respectful.
And even if TTTMU had stated 'this is now the official and only term for all pony markings ever' (which it didn't), I am not quite sure why you think that would matter or carry any weight in the collector discussion. It wasn't generally a treasure trove of hidden secrets. It was a general show for a general audience. That means it generalised. It can't supersede what was actually written on pony cards in a time before the CM term even existed.
The only thing I took from the show regarding markings was the surprising affirmation that rump design was apparently an American term, not a UK concept. Otherwise it told us nothing we didn't already know - that CM was invented later for a later iteration of the toy.
I don't think it even needs to go down to the way bronies behaved here after FIM first began. That's another subject altogether. But it may have something to do with why the term CM is so unsavoury to a lot of older gen collectors. I don't know. I just personally find it stupid. It doesn't trigger me as much as words like pegasister, everypony and the idea that Tales is G2. It's just a silly word. If you had said it in a general post about something I would've ignored it.
But I would definitely have read the 'so kiss it' comment as the work of a snarky brony, had you not made it clear in the rest of your post you collected G1.
That's how bronies generally speak to older pony collectors about their pre-g4 terms.
For what it's worth, I remember seeing the term "Cutie Marks (TM)" first in books rather than boxes. I think it was in the "Meet the Ponies" book, as well as the how to draw book released in 2003, maybe 2004. I can't remember them mentioning it that often... it was never in the specials or storybooks or anything. The first time it was used on a box might've been 2004's Friendship Ball ponies since they had the CM-related gimmicks (glitter and jewels).
I am more than sure that I'm going to get some push back on this, but refusing to use new terminology is like using old definitions for words.The point is that symbol is a general, unofficial term, not specified for any generation. It’s not “old terminology”. It can be used for pretty much every pony. (Using symbol because it’s a common one)
Are there any objections to me using RUMP DESIGN to mean the unique markings on MLP butts for ALL generations??No??? Who’s forcing you to use and not use certain language? We can’t control you.
Cause having to call them something different for each generation is really really silly. Not to mention annoying as all heck.I don’t find it annoying at all. Sprinkles has ducks for a symbol. Sunset Shimmer’s cutie mark is fittingly a sun. You don’t have to use different terms, either? I’ve also never met a collector who doesn’t know what those terms mean. Call them whatever you want, though. Again, no one is forcing you. You seem to have that idea.
DO not forget that you cannot assume everyone knows what you do about anything. That really seems to be something many are forgetting. What you call a biscuit, someone else calls a cookie.Again, the information is readily available. It’s not our fault that you apparently didn’t look.
QuoteI am more than sure that I'm going to get some push back on this, but refusing to use new terminology is like using old definitions for words.The point is that symbol is a general, unofficial term, not specified for any generation. It’s not “old terminology”. It can be used for pretty much every pony. (Using symbol because it’s a common one)
QuoteAre there any objections to me using RUMP DESIGN to mean the unique markings on MLP butts for ALL generations??No??? Who’s forcing you to use and not use certain language? We can’t control you.
QuoteCause having to call them something different for each generation is really really silly. Not to mention annoying as all heck.I don’t find it annoying at all. Sprinkles has ducks for a symbol. Sunset Shimmer’s cutie mark is fittingly a sun. You don’t have to use different terms, either? I’ve also never met a collector who doesn’t know what those terms mean. Call them whatever you want, though. Again, no one is forcing you. You seem to have that idea.
QuoteDO not forget that you cannot assume everyone knows what you do about anything. That really seems to be something many are forgetting. What you call a biscuit, someone else calls a cookie.Again, the information is readily available. It’s not our fault that you apparently didn’t look.