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Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Al-1701 on August 17, 2019, 01:53:01 PM

Title: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 17, 2019, 01:53:01 PM

Theirs only ten episodes left after this.  There are ten episodes left after this.  There are ten whole episodes left after this.  :yikes:

Spoiler

The rules to this game reminds of Starfleet Battles.  How Twilight plays also brings back some less than pleasant memories.  Speaking of space, I wanted an asteroid to fall on this building about halfway through this episode.

Twilight was insufferable, Pinkie Pie was off her meds, and everyone in general was just unlikable.  Even Maud couldn't save this trainwreck.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 17, 2019, 02:20:48 PM

I thought the episode was hilarious because everyone was unlikeable.
I couldn't help but side with Twilight, tho. Pinkie should become Element of Annoyance.

I still maintain that some of the S9 episodes feel like they should have been in earlier seasons. This one included.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: AvianWing on August 17, 2019, 07:14:14 PM

Quote from: Zapper on August 17, 2019, 02:20:48 PM

I still maintain that some of the S9 episodes feel like they should have been in earlier seasons. This one included.

Agreed, it makes me wonder if the decision to end on S9 was a rather hasty one.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Leave a Whisper on August 17, 2019, 09:31:20 PM

Quote from: Zapper on August 17, 2019, 02:20:48 PM

I thought the episode was hilarious because everyone was unlikeable.
I couldn't help but side with Twilight, tho. Pinkie should become Element of Annoyance.

I still maintain that some of the S9 episodes feel like they should have been in earlier seasons. This one included.

You mean she's not already?  :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 18, 2019, 03:58:19 PM

I like that we skipped 2 4 6 Great. I had a whole rant ready to post, but I think just not acknowledging it whatsoever is better.

I was excited when I saw we were getting another Twilight/Pinkie episode, since the only other one was a mess. And then this one fell into the exact same trap: Twilight is only in the wrong because the writers say she's in the wrong, and Pinkie gets off scott free for being an inconsiderate friend. Honestly, the only episode that portrayed these 2 correctly was Trade Ya. Also, if they were so determined to write another episode about this duo, why COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN A MAP EPISODE?!

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 18, 2019, 05:45:14 PM

Really, they're all inconsiderate, but Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash are by far the worst.  And yet they're the most popular (or at least Hasbro things so).  I want early G3 Rainbow Gabor back.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Sunset on August 18, 2019, 06:06:27 PM

I’ve been pretty “meh” about FIM for a while now.  I find this episode much more palatable when I think about who it was intended for.  I can just imagine Twilight as a 7-8 year old on family game night being partnered with her 3-4 year old sibling.

Title: Re: \"A Trivial Pursuit\" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 18, 2019, 11:23:08 PM

It's so weird how contrary this season has been so far! I would consider some of these episodes to be the best of entire series. Watching the villains grudgingly learn to work together? Awesome. An episode that focused on Celestia and Luna hanging out together, like fans have been asking for for years? Great! And 'Student Counsel' was a plot that hit right to my heart. I can never say no to friends for fear of hurting them. Seeing Sunburst appear at the end, I literally cheered out loud. Perfect ending!

Even when I didn't particularly like an episode, like 'Common Ground' (I'm not a fan of Quibblepants), I had to admire the plot of a step-parent trying overly hard to push themselves into a step-child's life. I think it had an admiral message for both younger viewers and old.

But then we swing in the complete opposite direction and have episodes this season that make NO SENSE to me. They spend one entire episode setting up a moral about how children can still be friends with each other, even if one of them has to move away (which I think is an important message kids should see), and then they take it all back at the very last second and give up the entire message of the episode? And then... a parody of Ocean's Eleven!? WHY?  :blink:

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 18, 2019, 03:58:19 PM

I like that we skipped 2 4 6 Great. I had a whole rant ready to post, but I think just not acknowledging it whatsoever is better.

And this!! Who thought this would make a good season 9 episode!? I might have bought that plot as an early episode to the series, but not at THIS POINT. These characters are so far beyond this by now!  :stressed:


Well I have to say, this episode went into the latter category, for me. I can't imagine why this episode was even created, except to make jokes at the expense of characterization. Surely there was some loose ends from previous seasons they could be wrapping up in this last season, rather than rehashing the old "Twilight is super-obsessive and Pinkie Pie is super-wacky" tired cliches.

I would say, for me, I still enjoy FiM a lot, and I think there's more episodes this season that I like than ones I don't like, but this one was a thumb's down for me. I just don't enjoy watching all these characters that I like and admire behave so bratty to each other, and then it's all swept under the rug with a two second apology at the end.

(I gotta admit, although I'm not usually a fan of sticking Muffin Pony into episodes to do some sort of foolery to get fan reaction, I did get a chuckle out of the last five seconds of this episode, watching her try to open the door to the trivia place.  :P )

Post Merge: August 18, 2019, 11:27:37 PM

I'm kinda amused though that most people here seem to be siding with Twilight over Pinkie, though.  ^^; To each their own, but I think Twilight was entirely in the wrong this time. Pinkie was actively trying to help her team, and Twilight was being a total brat.

If I was hanging out with a group of friends in real life and one of them was purposely trying to ruin everyone's game night by nitpicking and pulling up technical rules just to hurt the other teams, I would have been pretty PO'd at that friend.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 19, 2019, 03:28:08 AM

I think people's problem is Pinkie Pie was acting like she was off her meds to make her seem as impossible to work with as possible.  She's not THAT aloof.

And never play Starfleet Battles, just don't.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Lady Frostbite on August 19, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

Holy. Hell. I hated Twilight before, but I REALLY want to know why Celestia thinks this idiot is the person to lead Equestria. I am starting to wonder if Twilight ever got any positive enforcement other than ruthless knowledge duels. First her sparring with Shining Armour that lasted their entire childhood, now this?

I FELT for Pinkie here; I've been the unwanted teammate that my teammate wanted to get rid of so they could pair up with their BFF or just because they didn't want me near them (wrong clique, actually enthused about a game, etc.). I really hated Twilight's guts for intentionally freezing her out and being so two-faced as to outright lie to her about it. And why did no-one bring up Pinkie leaving the 'playing field' unessessarily?

I swear Mud Briar was made to punish bronies for making Maud their waifu.

I think S9 can be summed up as 'the season where DHX goes ham on facial expressions and does whatever because who cares'. Celestia being afraid of chickens. Luna not knowing what sunblock us. Shining Armour stopping Cadence from defending Flurry Heart. The Royal Sisters deciding to retire to let Twilight rule.

What is even going on. If 2,4,6,Greaaat was fuel for Dash haters - and I admit, I don't like Dash - then this ep along with Twilight's Seven is just another cannister of gas for Twilight haters. Good Gods, do I hate this pony. If anyone is off their meds, it's Celestia for thinking this vindictive, pedantic, manipulative, sociopathic, hauty idiot can be Princess of All.

Title: Re: \\\"A Trivial Pursuit\\\" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 19, 2019, 04:14:01 AM

Quote from: Dragonflitter on August 18, 2019, 11:23:08 PM

They spend one entire episode setting up a moral about how children can still be friends with each other, even if one of them has to move away (which I think is an important message kids should see), and then they take it all back at the very last second and give up the entire message of the episode?

This has already happened in season 1 with Ticket Master. A recycled plot from MLP Tales in which a pony can't decide which friend to take as plus one, so in the end she gives it all up. Her friends also realize they don't want to go if not all of them can so they all stay home together.

In Ticket Master Twilight can't decide and so is rewarded by Celestia with more tickets and the moral is gone. You don't need to sacrifice for your friends, in the end you just get what you want :lol:
The same happened in Last Crusade. You don't have to sacrifice anything, you just get what you want in the end.

I think FiM can only ever be as good as the writers (and of course Hasbro) want it to be.
Hasbro says "no death" so RD's tortoise goes into hibernation anf never returns. And the Apple parents are just heavily hinted at being "gone" forever.
Hasbro says the character tropes need to stay intact so the ponies never really learn their lessons for real.
And depending on the writers the character tropes can be upped to the max. This way we get Twilight and Pinkie who seem insane for comedic effect.

Remember when they trief that with Fluttershy? I am so glad they stopped her Hulk ways. I hated it so much when early season Fluttershy would just start screaming and being angry.

To be fair, I think the non M6 episodes have been really good, too!
I love the villain eps and the Trixie/Starlight one. I will miss Starlight, Trixie and Sunburst. They should be brought back somehow (and I need a Sunburst brushable with his little goat beard).

I enjoyed that Sunburst was sabotaging Twilight in the end. He was only learning from the Princess of Friendship :lol:

Post Merge: August 19, 2019, 04:21:10 AM

Quote

f anyone is off their meds, it's Celestia for thinking this vindictive, pedantic, manipulative, sociopathic, hauty idiot can be Princess of All

Massive Twilight spoiler for future episode:

Spoiler

I mean it.

Spoiler

Twilight will become a great leader who doesn't freak out anymore in an upcoming ep. Discord even lampshades it by saying something about character development.
Twilight says that the trivia night was an exception and that she has matured and in the end Celestia is super proud of her and says she has proven to be a great leader.

I did not make this up. It all happens in just a few eps from this one :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 19, 2019, 10:31:11 AM

OMG Lady Frostbite I love your Avatar. XD Luna with the Swan of Death(tm).  :lmao:

Quote from: Lady Frostbite on August 19, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

I FELT for Pinkie here; I've been the unwanted teammate that my teammate wanted to get rid of so they could pair up with their BFF or just because they didn't want me near them (wrong clique, actually enthused about a game, etc.). I really hated Twilight's guts for intentionally freezing her out and being so two-faced as to outright lie to her about it. And why did no-one bring up Pinkie leaving the 'playing field' unessessarily?

Ugh I felt the same way! And I could almost see it as being a good moral of the episode, but they don't even really address it! Twilight offers a two second apology at the end and that's it. No one even brings up the fact that she's being a brat and using technicalities to attack the other teams and ruin everyone's fun evening. When she got Sunburst disqualified because Cranky was sleeping, it was for absolutely no reason! Sunburst wasn't even a threat at that point, he had like 3 points and all the other teams had much higher. She was strictly doing it to be mean.

Quote from: Lady Frostbite on August 19, 2019, 03:58:50 AM

I swear Mud Briar was made to punish bronies for making Maud their waifu.

Have you ever watched an old black-and-white movie from the 50's or whatever and you could tell one character was doing some sort of parody of something, but you didn't know what because the reference has been lost to time? This is what I feel like whenever Mud Briar is on the screen. Someday in the far future kids are going to be watching old episodes of MLP and some adult is going to have to explain that Mud Briar is a parody of a character from an adult sitcom that was airing at the same time MLP was. That they felt needed to be in a cartoon about colorful ponies. For some reason.  :blink:

Quote from: Zapper on August 19, 2019, 04:14:01 AM

This has already happened in season 1 with Ticket Master. A recycled plot from MLP Tales in which a pony can't decide which friend to take as plus one, so in the end she gives it all up. Her friends also realize they don't want to go if not all of them can so they all stay home together.

In Ticket Master Twilight can't decide and so is rewarded by Celestia with more tickets and the moral is gone. You don't need to sacrifice for your friends, in the end you just get what you want :lol:
The same happened in Last Crusade. You don't have to sacrifice anything, you just get what you want in the end.

Very true! But that is what is so confounding about it! The writers of this show have really evolved since the show started. You can disagree with me, but I think a lot of episodes done in later seasons have really mature and thoughtful plotlines, and I can tell the writers have come a long way from when this series started. Episodes where you can really tell the writers were trying to think of good stories to tell kids, and also entertaining stories that adults enjoy as well.

Between Last Crusade, 2 4 6 Great, and Trivial Pursuit, it feels like someone wrote episodes after only watching the first couple seasons. The writing level is on par with a show that is just getting started and still trying to find its footing. Definitely not what I've come to expect from a show that is nine years in and trying to wrap everything up.

(I don't even understand why they didn't want Scootaloo to move. I mean, this is the end of the series, it wouldn't have messed up future storylines with the CMC to have one of them live in another town. And I would have really liked to see them address some different things kids in real life can do to communicate with each other, but with a FiM world spin! Like maybe the CMC set up a message system with Gabby the courier, who brings notes between the two towns daily. Certainly when your childhood friend moves away from you, these days, it's different than when I was a kid and your only choice was sometimes to talk to them on the phone once in a while.)

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: StarSwirl05 on August 19, 2019, 10:47:09 AM

Spoiler

I really didn't like the ep. The characters were all obnoxious and they were playing an equally obnoxious game. Plus, REALLY? An apple question for not only someone playing but from the hostess.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Ragamuffin on August 19, 2019, 11:25:32 AM

I haven't been watching any recent eps, and everyone doesn't seem to like any of them. They're "eh" at best and painful to watch at worst. I really wanted to watch season 9 all the way through since it's the end of the series but no one has had anything nice to say.

Just reading the synopsis, I wonder why they went this route? Every other season has been big on adventure and whatever, but this one is VERY season one, but apparently more annoying. Very slice-of-life. Maybe the writers wanted to just have fun with the characters one last time but... I don't know.

I wanna know about Celestia and Luna and I feel like we're not gonna get that. We could have at least gotten backstory on them, why they're alicorns and how they got their powers or SOMETHING but uh, Rainbow Dash is angry about not coaching and Twilight and Pinkie play Trivia! Whatever!

I guess they could go over an origin story in the comics but I'm pretty sure it's been stated that the cartoon and the comics are two different canons. All that's left is the final two episodes...

Spoiler

A lot of the following episodes have been leaked ahead of time, but again, I haven't seen them out of lack of interest. Just reading the description I know exactly how they're gonna play out.

From the looks of it, just reading the final episodes are:

Spoiler

17. Twilight freaks out, again, but everything is actually okay in the end.
18. Fluttershy and Angel swap bodies and they probably find a new appreciation for each other.
19. Spike episode
20. Starlight freaks out, again, but everything is actually okay in the end.
21. Rainbow Dash Daring Do episode. RBD probably learns something about how fandom works... fanfiction?
22. CMC episode. They probably are like "we're gonna enjoy being kids while we can". It's literally in the title.
23. ???
24. Big Mac episode, people are speculating a wedding/proposal?
25/26: Finale

Gee, how exciting... :pout: We've seen most of these already, the only ones that are potentially interesting are the Angel episode and maybe the CMC one. The Big Mac episode could be big but I feel like we might've had something like that already. Rainbow Roadtrip had a proposal scene (that IMO isn't as sweet as everyone says it is. Yeah Sunny and Petunia are cute I guess but it felt like they were just friends crushing on each other and not an established couple. It felt out of nowhere.) Daring Do episodes I think are pretty predictable too.

As we all know, the finale is gonna end with everyone becoming an alicorn princess. :lookround:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 20, 2019, 03:01:37 AM

Quote from: Dragonflitter on August 19, 2019, 10:31:11 AM

The writers of this show have really evolved since the show started.

They changed a lot of writers, too. Ticket Master was written by Lauren Fausticorn herself :lol:

I just had an epiphany. Why the heck didn't Twilight choose Spike as her plus one? Did Celestia not count him as a real person? Was he considered Twilight's extention? :lol:

Quote from: Ragamuffin on August 19, 2019, 11:25:32 AM

Spoiler

20. Starlight freaks out, again, but everything is actually okay in the end.
21. Rainbow Dash Daring Do episode. RBD probably learns something about how fandom works... fanfiction?

Spoiler

You are wrong about Twilight freaking out :lol: In fact, she has a rapid heelturn character evolution and never freaks out ever again. Discord lampshades how badly written it is. Celestia is more convinced Twilight will be a perfect ruler.

20. Starlight is made headmare of the school. Then she is pressured by Trixie to make her second in command due to their friendship but Trixie is not qualified but shows other good qualities when it comes to the students. In the end Starlight has to talk it out with her, makes Sunburst her secondary and Trixie the counsellor. Trixie is ok with not getting the position and everyone is happy.

21. The entire Daring Do thing is wrapped up. In the end nobody is hunting for treasure anymore, Daring and Caballeron become friends and the new author is the creature thingie who turns out just tried to protect the artifacts.

Haven't seen the others but I sure hope they all become alicorns because that would make the Alicorn!Twilight drama from way back even more delicious XD Imagine the people who hated alicorn Twilight suddenly having to hate all the Mane Six? Turning their backs on the fandom and taking their crazy with them? Loving that concept.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Lady Frostbite on August 20, 2019, 04:21:16 AM

Quote from: Zapper on August 20, 2019, 03:01:37 AM

I just had an epiphany. Why the heck didn't Twilight choose Spike as her plus one? Did Celestia not count him as a real person? Was he considered Twilight's extention? :lol:

It's stated why in the episode itself; Twilight asks Spike if he's ever gone, he says no and doesn't want part of that 'filly foo-foo gala gunk', and Twilight counters by saying a dance would be nice. He declined a place even before Twilight outright asked him, which makes it more bizarre that he was hurt that Celestia didn't send him a ticket when she gave the Mane Six extras. Twilight was planning to take him as her plus-one, but he declined, hence the competition

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 20, 2019, 04:49:57 AM

Quote from: Lady Frostbite on August 20, 2019, 04:21:16 AM

Quote from: Zapper on August 20, 2019, 03:01:37 AM

I just had an epiphany. Why the heck didn't Twilight choose Spike as her plus one? Did Celestia not count him as a real person? Was he considered Twilight's extention? :lol:

It's stated why in the episode itself; Twilight asks Spike if he's ever gone, he says no and doesn't want part of that 'filly foo-foo gala gunk', and Twilight counters by saying a dance would be nice. He declined a place even before Twilight outright asked him, which makes it more bizarre that he was hurt that Celestia didn't send him a ticket when she gave the Mane Six extras. Twilight was planning to take him as her plus-one, but he declined, hence the competition

I only remembered Spike not getting a ticket. Should have rewatched it before commenting. That was a "clever" way writing Spike out. Of course Twilight could have also asked her brother she is so super close to, but he wasn't invented yet :lol:

I personally would have picked Applejack, btw. She said she needed to make money quickly to buy a new hip for Granny. Oh, Pinkie wants to go wild, Rarity wants to flirt, Rainbow wants to fangirl and Fluttershy wants to spend even more time with animals? How about that poor lady can't walk without being in pain, ponies! :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: MJNSEIFER on August 20, 2019, 07:18:59 AM

In regards to "The Ticket Master" I always had a headcanon that Princess Celestia was testing Twilight Sparkle out and making sure she made the right choice and refused to decide between her friends - like she wanted to make sure she had already started learning friendship, and was on the right path or whatever.  It was pointed out to me that it was unfair or mean of Celestia to do this (I forget what), but the headcanon mostly came because I was getting tired of the Celestia meme and trying to think of more justified reasons that Celestia could have given Twilight two tickets knowing she had six friends (I'm including Spike.)

And yeah, Applejack deserved the ticket the most - she was the only one who wasn't going for "selfish" reasons (the others had nice and understandable reasons for going, but they still wanted to go for themselves.)

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 20, 2019, 12:51:59 PM

Quote from: Zapper on August 20, 2019, 03:01:37 AM

Quote from: Ragamuffin on August 19, 2019, 11:25:32 AM

Spoiler

20. Starlight freaks out, again, but everything is actually okay in the end.
21. Rainbow Dash Daring Do episode. RBD probably learns something about how fandom works... fanfiction?

Spoiler

You are wrong about Twilight freaking out :lol: In fact, she has a rapid heelturn character evolution and never freaks out ever again. Discord lampshades how badly written it is. Celestia is more convinced Twilight will be a perfect ruler.

20. Starlight is made headmare of the school. Then she is pressured by Trixie to make her second in command due to their friendship but Trixie is not qualified but shows other good qualities when it comes to the students. In the end Starlight has to talk it out with her, makes Sunburst her secondary and Trixie the counsellor. Trixie is ok with not getting the position and everyone is happy.

21. The entire Daring Do thing is wrapped up. In the end nobody is hunting for treasure anymore, Daring and Caballeron become friends and the new author is the creature thingie who turns out just tried to protect the artifacts.

Haven't seen the others but I sure hope they all become alicorns because that would make the Alicorn!Twilight drama from way back even more delicious XD Imagine the people who hated alicorn Twilight suddenly having to hate all the Mane Six? Turning their backs on the fandom and taking their crazy with them? Loving that concept.

Spoiler

The original series and even Tales are starting to sound like Shakespeare compared to FiM.  We're not going to bother giving anything a proper resolution.  Things are just going to stop because it's time for them to stop.

But them sticking bronies in the eye with them all becoming alicorns would be awesome.  Sure, it's still hot garbage, but it would be my hot garbage.

Something that really gets my dander up in this show is how it lionizes the "Crab Mentality".  They say you can leave a bucket of crabs open because if one tries to climb out, the others will pull them back down.  The Crab Mentality is when a community will drag a person aspiring to be something more because doing that betrays the community.  How dare you strive for personal accomplishment, remember your place with the rest of us.  This show does this so many times.  I'd argue it's the reason it took five seasons for the CMC to get their cutie marks and they're all the same.

The only time personal accomplishments have been achieved seems to be because the writers suddenly remembered these characters had dreams and aspirations.  And even then, I was waiting for them to pulled out from under them because friendship is the most important thing of all.

This episode strikes me as a microcosm of that.  Twilight is seeking a personal accomplishment, and the universe decides to conspire against her.  So, to make their lesson work, Twilight turns into a mean-spirited rules monger.

It's why I hate "A Hearth's Warming Tale".  "A Christmas Carol" was about a man who ruined the lives of others to enrich himself from the comfort of his desk learning the results of his cruelty and in the end doing the most harm to himself.  It was a warning to the moneyed class of Victorian England that their greedy practices of preying on the lower class would come back to bite them.  This show twisted that into someone who wasn't harming anyone suddenly deciding to destroy the holiday just cuz and the result was destroying the world.  The lesson here is going for personal accomplishment makes you evil.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on August 20, 2019, 04:56:07 PM

I loved the faces in this one. Much screenshotting was had.
I feel like we should just make a general "rest of s9" discussion thread with how the early airings are going. I skipped episode 18? The old ship that should have been buried one. I don't..need to watch it. That makes 2 episodes overall that I've skipped. Not too bad.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Pinkie21 on August 22, 2019, 05:07:16 AM

Oh I really couldn’t stand Pinkie in this one.  She completely destroyed Twilight’s chance of completing her 3rd win, and I couldn’t stand how the message was that that just didn’t matter at all.   I don’t like this whole “winning doesn’t matter” mindset, because, well, winning does matter in life.  Pinkie was nothing but a liability, and in the end, Twilight’s just perfectly okay with losing in the end because “Well, at least we’ll have fun, har har”. I love Pinkie Pie, truly.  But this episode was just so wrong.  I also was kind of surprised at just how unintelligent Pinkie is.  Granted, she’s simple-minded, but she always struck me as ditzy-but-kinda-smart (like in the first EG film).

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 22, 2019, 06:02:20 AM

Speaking of dumb... AJ not knowing the Zap-Apple question was so weird. I was expecting her to answer immediatly and Twilight getting her disqualified for conspiring with the host or whatever.
Also... they had an entire episode about these apples and AJ explained to everyone why they are so important. All M6 should have known but were dumbed down somehow to draw out the answering process. That's how you make an episode longer :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Pinkie21 on August 22, 2019, 06:20:20 AM

Oh man I almost forgot about AJ!  You’re right!  How did she not know?  She’s only been harvesting apples since birth...  Even Granny Smith’s just like, “Really, child?!”  Yeah, these characters really lost a bunch of IQ for this episode, didn’t they?  I’d hate to see what kind of dresses Rarity was making during this episode’s timeline, LOL

Title: Re: \"A Trivial Pursuit\" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 22, 2019, 10:01:57 AM

The thing about AJ not knowing the answer is that she forgot the question because Rainbow Dash distracted her. It was part of their one-uping-each-other bit that they were doing for the episode. :)

You see Granny ask the question, then AJ is about to answer, then RD distracts her and she says "Uh, what was the question again?" Granny just looks annoyed and doesn't repeat the question (perhaps it's against the rules? though they don't make that clear) so everyone just awkwardly waits until Fluttershy buzzes in and guesses.

Post Merge: August 22, 2019, 10:03:47 AM

Also we see several times that Pinkie DID know the answer and Twilight wouldn't let her guess... In fact they make it a point when the question is about cupcakes at a certain Canterlot event and Pinkie knows the answer because she MADE the cupcakes for that event, and Twilight still won't let her answer. Because Twilight was being a hdfjksdhf [rest of post redacted]

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 23, 2019, 09:44:38 AM

Also, Hasbro owes me $200000 for putting the word "Appledash" in an ACTUAL EPISODE OF THE SHOW - of all the ships to reference, why that one?! And especially in an episode where they're at each other's throats and trying to sabotage each other out of competitiveness! Haha what a healthy and functional relationship! Hahaha I crave death.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 23, 2019, 12:37:47 PM

:lmao:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on August 23, 2019, 12:57:48 PM

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 23, 2019, 09:44:38 AM

Also, Hasbro owes me $200000 for putting the word "Appledash" in an ACTUAL EPISODE OF THE SHOW - of all the ships to reference, why that one?! And especially in an episode where they're at each other's throats and trying to sabotage each other out of competitiveness! Haha what a healthy and functional relationship! Hahaha I crave death.

:P I take it you prefer rarijack? :P
It did feel kind of strange for them to reference shipping. Especially because [appledash rant redacted]. Also I thought we left the days of mostly pandering to the fandom behind us but I guess not.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: TJgamer on August 23, 2019, 11:57:40 PM

Hey, I'll take AppleDash over RariJack any day. That said, it was frustrating to see Applejack get duped so easily yet again (and by Rainbow Dash on top of that).  -_-

Anyway, this episode was purely made for the lols, obviously. In fact, now that Zapper has pointed it out, I am to believe this episode was meant to be the "swan song" of Twilight's psychotic freak-outs; an opportunity for the writers to have fun with her disturbed mind one last time.
Personally, I had fun with this episode. It has its share of frustrations (like the one I mentioned at the start), but the entertainment value does help make it easier to swallow for me.

Now while I can understand the annoyance with the "winning doesn't matter" moral, keep in mind that there isn't anything to gain with Twilight winning this game three times in a row. There's no award to prize or what have you. Really, it's just personal pride and nothing else. Have we ever had a competition in this show that had high stakes and still kept to the "winning isn't everything" message?

As for those who think Twilight should be past this by now, you do have a point, but even the most calm, level-headed people can be triggered.
Don't believe me? Watch me play Splatoon. You will witness my explosive fury.  :enraged:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 24, 2019, 04:12:31 AM

Quote from: tailrustedtealeaf on August 23, 2019, 12:57:48 PM

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 23, 2019, 09:44:38 AM

Also, Hasbro owes me $200000 for putting the word "Appledash" in an ACTUAL EPISODE OF THE SHOW - of all the ships to reference, why that one?! And especially in an episode where they're at each other's throats and trying to sabotage each other out of competitiveness! Haha what a healthy and functional relationship! Hahaha I crave death.

:P I take it you prefer rarijack? :P
It did feel kind of strange for them to reference shipping.

Goodness, Equestria Girls is full of RariJack. It was only a matter of time until a shoutout the rival ship would pop up :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 24, 2019, 05:56:37 AM

Only they act like they hate each other.  It's like "Fall Weather Friends" never happened.  Either that or Trivia Trot is in fact one of those games that brings out the worst in people.

Oh, and can I claim "Twilight Spazzle"?  I think that's the best description of the supposed Princess of Friendship.

Really, I still say the title should be given to Wind Whistler.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: MJNSEIFER on August 24, 2019, 03:40:19 PM

Quote from: tailrustedtealeaf on August 23, 2019, 12:57:48 PM

It did feel kind of strange for them to reference shipping. Especially because [appledash rant redacted]. Also I thought we left the days of mostly pandering to the fandom behind us but I guess not.

Well, to be fair, shipping does fit in with the theme of the show (as friendshipping exists), plus I've heard that Ashleigh likes AppleDash, so it may not be pandering.

This is more for the unpopular opinions thread (and I've probably already put it there), but I actually don't think they do pander to the fans all that much.  Most of the pandering seems to just be inclusion of ponies that the fandom like (such as Lyra Heartstrings, for example) in key scenes.  So... I don't think they pander any more obviously than they did in season 2, for the most part - there are parts where it looks like they're trying to create a meme (like the "pudding" thing), but that could just be me.

To be honest, the only obvious thing back when everyone here seemed to be talking about them pandering to the fandom was the "-licious meme" being referenced in "Pinkie Apple Pie", and that was a shout out to the guy who helped start the meme, because he's friends with Michelle, and thus, not pandering.

If this distracts from the topic, I'm fine with it being moved to the unpopular opinions post.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 24, 2019, 03:47:27 PM

I didn't even think of it as a shout-out to the shippers, when I watched the ep. o.0 Though yeah I guess it could be, now that it's been pointed out to me. But I think it's more likely they just were trying to write a quick catchy line, and Appledash is easier to say in the middle of Twilight's loud rant than "the team of Applejack and Rainbow Dash" would have been.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: TJgamer on August 24, 2019, 05:05:41 PM

It's pretty obvious they know of the ship names and decided to incorporate them into the story.

Also I'd like to ask, how would you do this episode differently while still keeping it entertaining?
(Scrapping the episode is not an answer)

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 24, 2019, 10:20:34 PM

For me personally, I think this episode is a case of the characters' traits being magnified to the extreme in a negative way, which leaves a bad taste in some viewer's mouths. I would have liked there to have been a more sincere apology in the end, as well, from both of them for the way they had been acting.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Pinkie21 on August 25, 2019, 08:13:05 AM

I would have loved for there to have been a message like, “It’s okay to want the best teammate in order to ensure a win”, but I know that would go against the “spirit” of the series.  But seriously though, it’s more than okay to put a personal goal ahead of a friendship.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 25, 2019, 09:00:59 AM

It also didn't help that Pinkie started with a stereotypical bubble-headed answer.  Pinkie Pie is not that clueless, and when she is it's a sign the episode is poorly written.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 25, 2019, 08:52:48 PM

Whoops, didn't mean to start a shipping debate. I'm neutral on ships - I just don't like the "2 who have to one-up each other in everything and cant admit fault/weakness to each other out of personal pride" being seen as romantic. That's not... a healthy basis for a relationship. It would be one thing if they only got competitive in certain situations, but they turn everything into a cutthroat competition - and when that fails, they literally make things up to compete over. That's just their relationship. If anything, they remind me of siblings with their rivalry.

Anyway, the only positive I can find with this episode is that Tara Strong clearly had fun voicing Twilight throughout it, as did the animators drawing Twilight's many faces. There's something to be said for that, I think.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Deep Purple Crystal on August 27, 2019, 01:21:58 AM

Spoiler

This was... not a good experience.
During my recent hiatus from this place, I attempted to marathon the entirety of FiM chronologically and eventually came... to this episode, which essentially epitomizes every major issue with the later seasons; most notably the duller character interactions and multiple contrivances being pulled out to reach the obviously telegraphed climatic moral. The earlier seasons featured poorly-written and contrived episodes to an extent as well, but there was typically a sense that they were trying to accomplish something of value and many more episodes achieved higher highs by mining surprisingly subtlety and complexity out of simple, shopworn plots, whilst the seasons beyond 3 tend to overreach into 'intricacy' and instead deliver extremely simplified versions of conceptually complex plots where every point feels weirdly telegraphed to carry the narrative. It doesn't feel like the kind of priority that fits FiM's mechanics that well, personally, and the recent episodes where the crew lean into more comedic territory exude more an air of just throwing in some wacky faces (or obvious attempts to manufacture brony memes), references and scenes of characters loudly and awkwardly freaking out and calling it a day (remember when episodes featured jokes with more actual variety?). It also doesn't help that the comedy barely feels natural anymore, which is kind of detrimental to plots such as this - because most of FiM's jokes now stems from characters overreacting in an obvious and unrealistic manner, the more grounded aspects of the earlier comedic episodes have been shed in favor of a more artificial and emptily jokey air in a way that reminds me more of a awkward ripoff of a Friends-esque sitcom than FiM (notice how Pinkie was basically shoehorned into the role of the 'annoying airheaded friend' in a way that felt pretty similar to this?). I guess I just don't come to FiM to watch a bad sitcom, and this episode irked me as a result.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 28, 2019, 03:31:43 PM

I still hold that seasons 1-3 were the worst of the show, but I agree with some of the points you make. I guess I just value that the later seasons tried to get more intricate, even if they didn't always necessarily succeed, whereas the earlier season just feel lazy to me by comparison.

Also, I thought of another problem with this episode. Why did Sunbrust try to get Twilight disqualified? She was frazzled, sure, but she obviously knew all the right answers, unlike Pinkie. Also, who else was he going to pick as his partner? Twilight was his best shot at winning and he knew it. Furthermore, why didn't Twilight bring this up?! It shouldn't have been "what kind of teammate deliberately gets their partner disqualified?", it should've been "why are you trying to disqualify me when I know all the right answers?"

We could've had a map episode. We could've had a student six episode. We could've had an Applejack episode, since we never got one after Honest Apple two seasons ago. We could've explained how some of the Apple family lives in the Hollow Shades when it's been abandoned for millennia. We could've explained what the Shadow was. We could've had an episode focusing on Spike and Pinkie or Spike and Rainbow or the CMC and Pinkie or Discord and anyone but Twilight or Fluttershy or any relationship between the main characters that never got fleshed out. Instead we got this and 2 4 6 Great. I wouldn't be so harsh on these episodes, but it's the LAST SEASON, and they're just such missed opportunities.

Ok I'll stop ranting about this episode now lol

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 28, 2019, 04:25:18 PM

I got to disagree about applauding the staff for trying to be more intricate.  It's just encouraging the bad behavior that got us here.  They've never succeeded with more complex topics.  In anything, they're caused structural damage to the series.  The dragons have never recovered from "Dragon Quest" and the yaks are a lost cause.  There are so many destructive unintended messages in this show that still puts itself out as the instruction manual on friendship.

I'm someone who cares more about the results than the intentions.  "The road to Hell is paved in good intentions" as they say.  It reminds me of Junkyard Wars where the complicate machines seemed to breakdown and be useless while the simpler machines get the job done in maybe not the flashiest and most effective fashion.

Were the earlier seasons simple, yes.  However, the jokes landed better, the characters were endearing, and the lessons seemed more well covered.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 28, 2019, 05:23:28 PM

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, ha :lol:

And yeah, they really bungled the yaks and dragons. But a lot of the worst episodes, at least in my opinion - Dragon Quest, Mysterious Mare Do Well, Feeling Pinkie Keen, One Bad Apple, Green Isn't Your Color, Boast Busters, and [shudders] Over A Barrel - were in the first few seasons. All of these I consider to have very bad messages, and I sure I wouldn't want any kid I know watching and learning from them.

The later seasons had some real bombs too, of course - 28 Pranks Later, Twilight Time, Amending Fences, anything involving Flurry Heart, Party Pooped, Yakity-Sax - but most of these I consider bad due to not making any sense (Amending Fences, Twilight Time) or just being annoying (McFlurry's episodes), and I wouldn't consider any offensive except Party Pooped, Yakity-Sax and 28 Pranks Later. That being said, I consider those three some of the worst of the series, so I suppose if anything, the quality throughout the later seasons got super polarized; when they pulled something off, they really pulled it off (Twilight's Kingdom, The Perfect Pear, To Where and Back Again, Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep? - all of which, especially the last one, I consider stellar examples of dealing with complex topics in a kids show) but when they dropped the ball, you end up with stuff like the last 2 episodes.

I do agree with the way the show totes itself rubbing me the wrong way a bit - that's why bad episodes are so bad to me. This show has taught me so much, but even when I started watching, I was old enough to pick out the lessons I thought were wack. The idea of kids watching Mysterious Mare Do Well/Green Isn't Your Color and thinking those are peak models of friendship is nothing less than horrifying.

I also agree that the characterization was more consistent, if simpler, back in the early seasons. I disagree about the jokes, but that's because I have a very stupid sense of humor, lol. And I can't say I agree about the lessons - like I said, a lot of them rubbed me the wrong way, and the ones that didn't were largely things I'd seen in other kids shows, so it didn't feel like the lessons were actually... teaching much. But that's my perspective as a preteen/teenager/adult (have I really been watching this show for 8 years?!), so I'm not sure how valid that criticism is. I guess that's why I liked the later season better as well - they tried to tackle less-covered topics, and even if they didn't always succeed, I applaud them for simply normalizing the covering of less-discussed topics in kids media. If nothing else, I guess I see it as paving the way for later cartoons to do it potentially better. I know nothing in FiM is too revolutionary - dead parents, dealing with guilt/forgiving yourself, realizing you don't need a lifelong dream to find happiness, divorced parents, feeling worthless, the US school system being garbage, having traditional methods of learning not work for you, being disowned, etc. are all things other kids shows have dealt with, but I feel there's still a taboo around them, this need to tiptoe around them to protect kids from them - as if some kids don't already live these things, and don't find comfort in seeing themselves represented on tv.

FiM could have done more and broken the mold further, true. But I'm pretty happy with what they did do. Except the yaks. The yaks are awful. The dragons and griffons aren't much better. And we never did learn any more about zebras - which is probably a good thing, I don't trust them to handle it well.

I can't knock the early seasons too much, of course - they had their great episodes too, and we wouldn't have the later seasons without them. Plus, that's when I started watching, which changed my life so much it's really not funny. Hurricane Fluttershy is still the best episode.

...buuuut that's all just my onion. Speaking of which, did we ever get an onion themed pony? We need an onion themed pony.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 28, 2019, 08:11:03 PM

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be.  :cry:

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: lonewolf on August 28, 2019, 09:33:54 PM

Despite the episode's faults, it did give us the best "Twilynanas" (the new term for when she loses it) expressions ever (Pinkie had a few too):

Spoiler

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Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 29, 2019, 02:20:03 AM

Don't get me started on A Perfect Pear.  I could write a doctoral thesis on why that empty shell of an episode slot is the epitome of terrible writing going for cheap emotional manipulation due to a lack of any substance.  When I was going to review the episode, I realized it was going to be a small novel, so I retold the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes" as an analogue for the episode's intended effect.  All I will say is I didn't think you could waste William Shatner, but then I saw this episode.

And Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep was actually a terrible message because it suggests depression is something that can just be hugged away.  Luna needed help, actual professional help, and not the lupine charlatan type.

Which gets me back to this episode.  So they very next episode has Twilight completely cool and collected while everything is fall apart around her ears.  Since when has this been the case?  And they even felt the need to add that what happened in this episode was an outlier, even though it's never been the outlier.  Just...why did they think this episode had to exist?

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: MJNSEIFER on August 29, 2019, 07:40:14 AM

Quote from: Al-1701 on August 28, 2019, 04:25:18 PM

The dragons have never recovered from "Dragon Quest"

I personally felt they never needed to recover from that episode - I always felt that one group of dragons doesn't represent the whole species, so I never felt that the episode damaged them in anyway.

Quote from: Dragonflitter on August 28, 2019, 08:11:03 PM

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be.  :cry:

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

Is this the shadow in "Castle-Mania"?  I thought that was supposed to be G4 Tirek...

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Lady Frostbite on August 29, 2019, 07:41:22 AM

Wasn't that the Pony of Shadows?

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: MJNSEIFER on August 29, 2019, 07:47:19 AM

Quote from: Lady Frostbite on August 29, 2019, 07:41:22 AM

Wasn't that the Pony of Shadows?

Could be, I'll have to watch his episodes.

I assumed back at the time it was G4 Tirek for whatever reason, maybe people were saying that as it was the same season?  I'm also sure I remember thinking the shadow looked like his first form, but I could have misremembered by "association".

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: TJgamer on August 29, 2019, 09:44:47 AM

Quote from: Dragonflitter on August 28, 2019, 08:11:03 PM

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be.  :cry:

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

At the time, I believe the writers just saw that as a classic ending sting that isn't meant to lead anywhere. Kinda like Fluttershy's fang in "Bats".

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 28, 2019, 03:31:43 PM

Why did Sunbrust try to get Twilight disqualified?

Sunburst says he wants to "maintain his correct answer percentage". He cares more about his personal performance than winning the game at all.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Zapper on August 29, 2019, 09:53:49 AM

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 28, 2019, 03:31:43 PM

I still hold that seasons 1-3 were the worst of the show

I don't judge entire seasons this way because I have always thought that each and every season had 3 or 4 really bad episodes. But two horrible ones that always spring to my mind are directly from S1, so I was never on that "it all turned bad after S4" hype train :lol:

What grinds my gears in particular is when characters become parodies of themselves and display one-note behaviour to fill a role, often to get laughs. This is displayed in this episode to an extreme, but I don't see it for all the later seasons. It started for Twilight and Pinkie early on, about season 3.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: MJNSEIFER on August 29, 2019, 11:03:00 AM

I definitely noticed it for Pinkie Pie - I've already mentioned this, but my joke theory was that they'd sent the real Pinkie Pie back to the mirror pool by mistake, and we got stuck with a clone.

I will admit that season four is where it starts going downhill for me, but that was ultimately my opinion - I would have felt the same no matter what the majority was saying.  I will admit that I do put season four down as the last salvageable season, when I'm feeling generous, but the golden era will always be season 1 to season 3 for me, though cracks began to show in season 3 in my opinion, so I sometimes feel the golden era ended with season 2 (season 3 is a weird one, because it was shorter.)

For me, Season 1 was actually the only season with no bad episodes (the worst it had was "okay" episodes), while season 2 only had one bad episode in the form of "Putting Your Hoof Down" (I actually love "The Mysterious Mare Do Well", and personally feel that it would only really take a scene that acknowledges that Rainbow Dash won't/wouldn't have listen to them to fix), but after that it became more common for me to see what I at least considered a bad episode.

Despite feeling the show got weaker season 4 onwards, I do still manage to enjoy the later episodes at times, even if I don't feel like it's the same show a lot of the time.  I have found things about the later seasons that I like, even if they came out of, or led to things I didn't like.  For example, I found the idea of the School of Friendship to be silly for the most part (how did the Mane Six have the time to be teachers when five of them have jobs, and the other is a princess?), but it led to the introduction of the Young Six/Student Six, who I found myself liking and caring about far more than I expected to (though part of me feels they could have worked better as spin off characters who occasionally got a part in the "mane" show - hopefully Hasbro will at least give them a spin off, now.)  Another example is, there will always be a part of me that loves Starlight Glimmer, but I really don't like the direction they took with her.

Ultimately, despite my criticisms and opinions of the later season, I have a nostalgic attachment to the whole show, and the whole thing will always mean something to me, not just my idea of "the golden seasons".

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Al-1701 on August 29, 2019, 03:13:35 PM

I feel like the truly terrible episodes of the first couple of seasons, like Over a Barrel and Dragon Quest, were attempts to push the envelope by a show establishing itself.  They were bugs being worked out of the system.  As the series progressed, and the series not only continued to overreach but did so more frequently and more sloppily, it seemed less like a bug and more like feature.  This was on top of the characters becoming stagnant which probably contributed to how bad subjects were handled.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 29, 2019, 06:40:46 PM

Quote from: TJgamer on August 29, 2019, 09:44:47 AM

Quote from: Dragonflitter on August 28, 2019, 08:11:03 PM

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be.  :cry:

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

At the time, I believe the writers just saw that as a classic ending sting that isn't meant to lead anywhere. Kinda like Fluttershy's fang in "Bats".

Very true. I think you're right about that one. :nod:

Quote from: TJgamer on August 29, 2019, 09:44:47 AM

Quote from: otocolobus_manul on August 28, 2019, 03:31:43 PM

Why did Sunbrust try to get Twilight disqualified?

Sunburst says he wants to "maintain his correct answer percentage". He cares more about his personal performance than winning the game at all.

Yes Sunburst says several times in the episode that he has the highest correct answer percentage of any player, so if Twilight was not letting him get any answers in, that would ruin his personal goal of keeping that status. Thus why he wanted to get her removed from his team, so he could get some answers in. Dunno who he was thinking to get to replace her, though.

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: otocolobus_manul on August 30, 2019, 05:03:53 PM

Empty shell - hey, that's not an apple pun!  :lol:

That's a very good point on Magic Sheep. I don't think the tantabus represented depression - more like trauma, if anything - but yeah, Luna still did need some serious therapy after all that. I still think the moral of accepting help and forgiving one's self is good enough that I can forgive it, though, but that's just personal preference. I'm starting to realize that if I like the moral enough, I tend to forgive any missteps the episode might make.

And by the Shadow I meant the thing that possessed Stygian. I actually have a theory that the Shadow, like the Nightmare represents fear, represents Ignorance - it possesses Stygian after his friends misunderstood him and refused to let him explain himself, and it could only be banished from him after the truth was revealed. Plus, it would be kind of fitting as to why we never learned any more about it, haha. All this comes loosely from Carl Jung's concept of the shadow self (I think that's the name? Sorry, I'm not very well-versed on Jungian - or any - psychology), which essentially, if I remember correctly, represents the unconscious and/or repressed parts of one's personality; the part we don't know or see. This, too, fits with the story of Stygian and the Pillars, and the questions raised about the natures of goodness and heroism.

I guess I'm more curious about the Well of Shade than the Shadow itself. Who built it? Why? Was it to contain the Shadow, or worship it, or something else entirely? When was it built? The Pillars existed before the sisters ruled Equestria, and the Well was there even before them. I had an idea for an episode where Applejack visits her family in the Hollow Shades and discovers them to be a cult-like group who essentially worships the concept of ignorance. Being the element of Honesty, Applejack has to show them how powerful the truth is. Though I guess that's pretty similar to the kirin episode.

And oh, that makes sense about Sunburst.

Sorry if I come off as argumentative at all - it's just fun debating people with different opinions  :lol:

Title: Re: "A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode
Post by: Dragonflitter on August 30, 2019, 05:16:35 PM

Yes this thread has becoming the debate of season 9! XD I don't mind, it's enlightening to see other people's opinions!