The MLP Arena

Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 04:02:46 AM

Title: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 04:02:46 AM
So a while back there was a thread about prototype ponies and someone linked the image from the 1987 catalogue for German ponies, of the Rainbow Pony set.

The problem is that it was linked from someone else's tumblr, although the original image was scanned for my website.

Please note, I am not trying to claim copyright for Hasbro's images. Also, that I understand that an image that isn't watermarked is up to be pilfered and redistributed like this. And that the modern internet leads to things like Pinterest showing images anyway.

I don't like images from my site being redistributed or used in other places without permission but I accept if it has no watermark, I can't stop it. This is an old scan from a long time ago in a time where we didn't need to watermark catalogue images against liars and thieves, but I still accept that the lack of watermark is my responsibility.

The thing that makes me angry about this is not so much that aspect. It's that it appears on someone's tumblr, with the active claim that they are the source and it is part of their collection. So not just a "I found this and it's cool", post, or even a link to where they found it, but a direct lie that says it belongs to them. That's the bit I am having trouble with.

Although you can tell it's the scan from my website, it's been massively reposted and reblogged, including by people of note here in the pony community.

Again, I realise that you can't make someone be morally sound and acknowledge the sources they found things. But it really annoys me that they've taken something knowingly from my site, claimed it as theirs, and are now still redistributing it under that misapprehension. In the old days that was one of the things collectors didn't do, or if they did, they got short shrift for doing it, just as a matter of honour.

I don't scan stuff for my website to get other people hits and attention, and frankly I think the behaviour is disgusting anyway, but I wondered if there's anything - short of sending a polite msg to the owner - that can be done in this situation?

I suspect probably not, and I'm just ranting because it annoys me, but there we are. Ranting about it does make me feel better, so that's good at least.

The post:
https://glownshowpony.tumblr.com/post/109108799465/g1-my-little-pony-german-rainbow-pony-set#notes

My website (where you can see it's the same scan, but I have the original photos uncropped too because I own the booklet)
http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/germany_rainbowponies.htm

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: PinkieLopBun on August 11, 2019, 04:50:43 AM
That user last posted over two years ago and the other accounts of hers that I could find don't seem active either, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to even contact her.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Ponyfan on August 11, 2019, 05:55:12 AM
I'm so sorry that happened to you Taffeta. :(  If someone finds something from a website that doesn't belong to them a link back to the original source or acknowledging where they got the original should be common courtesy., They should never claim it as their own. 

Topics like this always remind me of when there was a huge art theft of many people's pony drawings that were then posted on a major website without acknowledging the original artists. Eventually the major website took down all of the stolen art that person had posted. 


Ponyfan
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Glitter Yolk on August 11, 2019, 06:08:24 AM
That sucks. :(

If and when I use someone else's image I try my best to either ask them first or at least credit the original by linking back to where I found it, but like you said images can get cycled around multiple times and it doesn't even link back to the original anymore, it's confusing. I know I'd be bummed out if I found one of my images used without permission or at least a source, but it really can't be stopped in this day and age, you're right.

I use lots of pony images for my Pinterest and ghostofthedoll posts, and the vast majority are sourced in some way back to where I found them, but it's not flawless and I encourage others to let me know if they see their image and it's not sourced so I can fix it.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 11, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
I really hate that reposting images has become such a common and accepted part of the internet these days. I mean sure something like this is different to someone's personal artwork, but not THAT different, credit should still be given...

Unfortunately I doubt you can do anything about it past messaging the OP, especially since so much time has passed now. :/
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 07:26:13 AM
I really hate that reposting images has become such a common and accepted part of the internet these days.
Yeah, this is the thing that gets me most. I think if it was just, "I found this pic, look at it", I'd probably not be as annoyed, since the net these days is so much about sharing stuff. Or if they at least put the origin/source as Hasbro, not themselves. I'd still be ticked, but at least I could put it down to accident.

But claiming to be the source and hashtagging it as 'mine' kind of erases those ambiguities.

The image/post is used on the main page of the account and it's clearly being used as a hook. All the reblogging kind of demonstrates the hook worked. It is possible they just found it in google, rather than finding my website directly, but it must have come from there originally, and even that doesn't excuse the lie.

To be clear, I don't think of it in the same terms as original artwork being stolen. That's much more base and disgusting, especially when it's being used for a profit. But in this case, what's being taken is my trust in sharing the stuff I acquire with the community as a whole.  I take full responsibility for the lack of watermark, but on the other hand, if I have to watermark everything or not share things because of dishonest people in the community who can't be bothered to credit a source or even just say they don't know the source...(sigh).

I didn't think there was much to be done about it. As PinkiePie said, they seem inactive. But it's cathartic to have a small rant about it anyway and to know other people get why I find this annoying. In the bigger picture of bad things that happen online it's not even a drop in the ocean. But it's still really rude.

Let's just say that any thought I had had to digitising my backcards and pamphlets for people to be able to access kind of just vanished. I'm not going to share my hard work and my collection so that someone somewhere in cyberspace can use it to get attention.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 07:42:10 AM
I mean, the answer is the same as it was 15+ years ago.

Watermark your images.

E-mail webpage owner and/or customer support and ask that they have the image taken down. Or just accept it.

Back in the late 90s I had some rare artbooks that I imported, scanned, and posted on my webpage. And those got taken an placed on bigger sites, and still circulates to this day. So it's just a part of the internet. (Just checked. took 5 seconds to find it).

And on another note, I work for a company that deals with art and we have a huge database of artwork. We occasionally share artwork with a branch that does product in the UK. I took one look at the artwork and realized they had used someone elses art, traced it, and that is obviously the hugest no-no ever. Like WTH how is that appropriate for any large corporation. But with the way the internet is-- I found the original source (took an hour but I got it) and stopped that BS. (Would of gotten the person fired too, had they not already left).

It happens. It always had happened. It always will happen. And the best you can do is not share on the internet, or watermark. (and obviously watermarking can be cropped out or photoshopped out but 99% of people won't go through that effort).
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 08:08:46 AM
I mean, the answer is the same as it was 15+ years ago.

Watermark your images.

I did already acknowledge that part was on me, but I don't think that should validate the action. It's fine to take precautions, but the sad thing is the need to take precautions in the first place.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 08:25:51 AM
I mean, the answer is the same as it was 15+ years ago.

Watermark your images.

I did already acknowledge that part was on me, but I don't think that should validate the action. It's fine to take precautions, but the sad thing is the need to take precautions in the first place.



I don't disagree, but it is what it is. And it's been the same since the dawn of the internet.

Also watermarking tends to need to happen before you share an image on your webpage.

otherwise if someone has already taken it-- the thing to do contact the webpage where the picture is stored (ie tumblr) to get it removed.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 09:22:23 AM
It boils down to how much time you want to devote to tracking it / fighting it.  It will happen no matter what, it's the nature of the internet.

Of note:  on Tumblr, so even if the person who originally posted the image takes it down, the image / post will still exist on the Tumblr of everyone who ever reblogged it from them.

Quote
And on another note, I work for a company that deals with art and we have a huge database of artwork. We occasionally share artwork with a branch that does product in the UK. I took one look at the artwork and realized they had used someone elses art, traced it, and that is obviously the hugest no-no ever. Like WTH how is that appropriate for any large corporation.

A Transformers cover artist (for the comic) just got caught tracing art from: other artists, cosplayers, and photos of the actual toys taken by other people!  Really burns me up, especially since I know tons of great fan artists who could have that job instead and wouldn't "cheat".
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 09:33:26 AM
It boils down to how much time you want to devote to tracking it / fighting it.  It will happen no matter what, it's the nature of the internet.

Of note:  on Tumblr, so even if the person who originally posted the image takes it down, the image / post will still exist on the Tumblr of everyone who ever reblogged it from them.

Quote
And on another note, I work for a company that deals with art and we have a huge database of artwork. We occasionally share artwork with a branch that does product in the UK. I took one look at the artwork and realized they had used someone elses art, traced it, and that is obviously the hugest no-no ever. Like WTH how is that appropriate for any large corporation.

A Transformers cover artist (for the comic) just got caught tracing art from: other artists, cosplayers, and photos of the actual toys taken by other people!  Really burns me up, especially since I know tons of great fan artists who could have that job instead and wouldn't "cheat".

Will tumblr itself not take it down if there is a complaint directly to them?

Yikes to that transformer thing.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 10:07:23 AM
Not sure how responsive Tumblr is to that sort of thing.  Maybe if you tell them there's a female presenting nipple in the picture, ha ha.  They keep flagging my photos of pink and purple ponies as porn . . .
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 10:54:54 AM


Also watermarking tends to need to happen before you share an image on your webpage.

Yeah, I do know that xD. I realise I probably seem an idiot to you for not watermarking, but it's not that I don't know how it works or that the image is not being hosted on my server on that site, so there's no point in changing my file now. It's already out there in spamland.

I;m also not going to try with tumblr, a: because they won't care and b: because technically it's Hasbro's image. It's not my fan art or anything. It was shared for information purposes, but I don't really have a case to have it removed from the server just because someone lied about the origin. That's why I'm complaining here, as it seems like the only place anyone will care or listen :P

Aside from the fact it used to be the case that ponypeople respected each other and didn't poach images unless they wanted to be yelled at, the main reason I tried to avoid watermarking images is that in some cases it conceals detail. And the point of sharing those images was, of course, information sharing and detail. I'm really open with my information. A fair portion of verified UK information on ID websites in this community came in some part from stuff I dug up, and I don't mind that that's the case. Honestly, I wish more sites would take advantage of the fact I don't mind them using my information on things like set releases, variations, release timelines, etc - but I have never liked picture theft. My rule has always been, if you want to use it, ask first, because it's manners. I often say yes, but I'm old school that way. The modern internet and I don't get along in this regard.

On the other hand, and I do have a good proportion of watermarked images on my site, the fact is that watermarking them in a place that can't be cropped out is generally detrimental to the point of uploading them. I'm not uploading them to sell stuff or advertise or create a pretty picture gallery, after all. The devil is in the detail, as they say. It's something I've encountered issues with in the past and so frankly I'd rather in many cases share the image without damaging it so people can get the point of the image, than stamp it all over so nobody steals it.

I realise that's a risk. It's actually annoying to highlight the watermarking since I mentioned it up front at the start as my responsibility, so it's academic to the discussion.

As I said before, it's the attitude behind the action that bothers me, not the sharing of the image per se. It's the active lie about where the image came from that disgusts me. I realise if I had watermarked it that wouldn't have happened, but then again, I have to watermark it because I can't trust ponypeople to be honourable about stuff they find online. And that upsets me more than the image being on another site.

Incidentally there's even a YT video that uses my photo of the Mountain Boys. But while that's annoying, at least that person isn't claiming they own that picture or those ponies. Semantics maybe but my real issue is with the ownership claim than the image share.

@LM - I realise that, too. But the other people reblogging it aren't claiming that it's theirs from their collection, so I kind of consider them innocent parties in this. In fact, you're one of them. Apparently you reblogged it too. If you feel the urge to take that down, that would be great, but the fault isn't with you or the rebloggers - it's with the owner of this tumblr.

And I guess I wanted to call it out because for all I know that there's more I can do to protect my images, it's annoying that I should have to because some people in this community are dishonest.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: brightberry on August 11, 2019, 11:11:07 AM
I’m sorry someone did that to you, Taffeta.  I’m right there with you with watermarks.  They hide details, not too hard to crop out unless they cover vital parts and modern image programs are making it easier and easier to remove them anyway.  If someone is determined enough, there is no stopping them.  The only thing you can do is call them out after the fact.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 11:16:01 AM
I don't think most people think of it in those terms anymore (as claiming ownership or implying that THEY scanned / created an image.)  They just want to share something they think is cool.

I'm not saying you're wrong to be peeved.  (I found someone uploading a bunch of my scans onto a third party site and was also peeved.) Just saying I don't think most people will assume that the original uploader was the one who scanned the image, and also that deception probably wasn't the reason for uploading it.

Also MLP collectors have never been respectful of other people's images UNLESS someone was aggressively going after them.   The era of individual websites was terrible for this, people would copy not just scanned images, but also homemade / customized images, backgrounds, dividers, and anything else they thought was cool.  (I used to run the "don't steal other people's images" thing, which I inherited from Chanth . . . Ironically I can't remember the name of it but some people might remember the image of the sun with the upside-down smile, which was the symbol for it.  Since I ran it people would email me and then I would try to convince whoever had wronged them to stop stealing the image . . . Anyway, my point is it happened all the time.)

There was one website--I think it was called MLPCollectors.com or MyLittlePonyCollectors.com? that was a pony ID site.  And they stole EVERY SINGLE IMAGE from Dream Valley, for every single pony set, and then claimed they were "unique" because they cropped them slightly.  That was the most blatant image theft I've ever seen.  After that Dream Valley added code that disabled right-clicking, so people couldn't right-click and save their images.

Come to think of it, that is something you might look into.  You can add code so that when someone tries to right click it will produce a text box, and you can make it say whatever you want (like "Don't copy my images without permission.")
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 11:30:41 AM
IMO, you can't accidentally claim you own something. You can accidentally share it without knowing where it came from. But you can't accidentally write that you're the source and it's your own. And if people know that, that makes them complicit, which doesn't make the situation any more right.

The code thing is possible but the thing is the person that would annoy most is me. I often link from my own images to post them here for POTD threads or in discussions. And honestly, it doesn't matter anyway. You can get around right click disable by printscreening. And if you can disable printscreening - which some sites seem able to do - there's getting the phone and taking a photo of the screen. Also I don't mind people saving my pictures for personal reference if they're useful. I just mind them posting them online in other places and claiming they put them there. ;)

I agree with brightberry that you can go to hours of trouble to fight this, but the problem is in the morality of the person. And the more you have to expend energy trying to fight against it, the reality is you're condoning that it happens, rather than calling it out.

I've had pony images stolen for ebay before, and also the entire text of my old website by a very odd person who decided that would be a good idea for some reason...? But that's going back a very long time. The latter person turned out to be a scammer. The former is clearly a scammer as they were claiming they had for sale the items which in fact they didn't (you may remember that, as I think you were key to the whistleblowing in that case...)

I also remember the ID site thing you mention. It's come up in discussion before.

The thing in those cases is that people got annoyed and it got stopped. So ponypeople did care about stuff being stolen from other members in those days and they did do stuff about it.

In the modern world it's not easy to stop, but people have almost given up with caring that it's wrong to take something without crediting it. Maybe I'm also looking at this as an academic who has to fastidiously reference anyone else's work else be accused of plagiarism, but I still don't think it's valid to take and claim an image, any image, that you didn't put there in the first place.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 11, 2019, 11:42:11 AM
To be clear, I don't think of it in the same terms as original artwork being stolen. That's much more base and disgusting, especially when it's being used for a profit.

yeah, I didn't word that very well before - I was just trying not to put your problem down if that makes sense :P (like I didn't want it to come off as "oh well there are worse things..") I meant, I can more easily understand why people repost stuff like this - how someone can think "oh, well it's not their image, they didn't make it, so it's okay to repost it!". But that still doesn't make it quite right x)

Especially since in your case the OP is apparently specifically claiming it as their own... THAT is just messed up.

Plus you bring up a really good point about watermarking being counterproductive in cases like this. I've been thinking about that lately, too - been considering scanning some rare stuff from another collection I'm in, or taking detailed collection photos and stuff, and then I think, well should I watermark them? What if someone tries to jack the photos and use them for an eBay auction or something? But then I'm not a fan of big intrusive watermarks, either. No point putting up a nice pic if half of it has my name splashed all over it, right? It's difficult to know what to do for the best. :/ Can't win either way. But blatant reposters like this do ruin stuff for themselves, since as you pointed out it makes honest folks like us think twice about sharing rare stuff...

I guess I just wish it wasn't so... accepted nowadays. It's always gonna happen but people used to be more against it. I blame social media x)
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 11:49:04 AM
Yeah, I do know that xD. I realise I probably seem an idiot to you for not watermarking, but it's not that I don't know how it works or that the image is not being hosted on my server on that site, so there's no point in changing my file now. It's already out there in spamland.

Please don't say things like that. I didn't think you were an idiot.

I added that extra part, because you quoted it, and I wanted to clarify it is something you do before hand.

I tried to cover all general bases for 1) beforehand and 2) after. And I tried to just word if for people in general.

Quite honestly, everyone in the pony community is the same mix of people in life. There are going to be people who just take pictures and share.

Some well known pony ID site took my ebay pictures without credit, and I came down hard on them. Just flipping ask.

I’m right there with you with watermarks.  They hide details, not too hard to crop out unless they cover vital parts and modern image programs are making it easier and easier to remove them anyway.  If someone is determined enough, there is no stopping them.  The only thing you can do is call them out after the fact.


A lot of people don't bother with the extra effort. While it's SO easy to photoshop stuff (I do it for a living), a LOT of people don't even know how to edit pictures at an optimal size for viewing.


Come to think of it, that is something you might look into.  You can add code so that when someone tries to right click it will produce a text box, and you can make it say whatever you want (like "Don't copy my images without permission.")
While that would be a good thing to add, it's easy enough to just screen capture. :)


and I think the point of adding a small watermark (it doesn't have to be obnoxious) or the disable right click are not bad things at all. Because they will deter most people.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 11:55:47 AM
If you're talking about the "Source: blogname" then I think that's auto-text from Tumblr.  (Not sure because different blogs display slightly differently depending on CSS.)

@Bandit  Most people are not going to go through the extra effort to screenshot, although I do agree it's an easy way around "no right-click".
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 11:59:00 AM
Quite honestly, everyone in the pony community is the same mix of people in life. There are going to be people who just take pictures and share.

Some well known pony ID site took my ebay pictures without credit, and I came down hard on them. Just flipping ask.

On this we can absolutely agree.

@LM - ok, I didn't know that. But #mine is presumably not tumblr, so the same rules apply.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 11:59:54 AM
I actually edited my post because I'm not sure anymore, Tumblr is weirdly variable which is both a blessing and a curse, ha ha.  (Edit:  did some more checking and I think I was initially right about it being automatically added.)
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
If you're talking about the "Source: blogname" then I think that's auto-text from Tumblr.  (Not sure because different blogs display slightly differently depending on CSS.)

@Bandit  Most people are not going to go through the extra effort to screenshot, although I do agree it's an easy way around "no right-click".

I do it all the time-- although I rarely find things disabled these days. If I need to save an image, I will do it. (Although I don't share it). O_o I'll even just take a phone screenshot if that is what it takes.

But yes, probably most won't.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 11, 2019, 12:09:01 PM
heck you don't even need to screenshot, usually you can just click on the image and drag it up to your address bar to see it full-size and be able to save it and stuff.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 12:11:32 PM
If you're talking about the "Source: blogname" then I think that's auto-text from Tumblr.  (Not sure because different blogs display slightly differently depending on CSS.)

@Bandit  Most people are not going to go through the extra effort to screenshot, although I do agree it's an easy way around "no right-click".

I do it all the time-- although I rarely find things disabled these days. If I need to save an image, I will do it. (Although I don't share it). O_o I'll even just take a phone screenshot if that is what it takes.

But yes, probably most won't.


I will also printscreen for private use. From ebay mostly. I will never use those images on my site. But if there is one surviving MOC image of a rare UK pony, I will want that for my private records, so that on my site I can write, "the comb is this, the ribbon is this" and know I'm not making it up.

I also had permission from someone to printscreen my way through their argos catalogue collection for my website use, and they're credited on my site for it, as they had rightclick disabled and so I emailed them.

As I said before, I have no issue with people saving my images for private reference use.

(complete tangent but my laptop is one of those that has very flexible hinges and can operate as a tablet basically. And for some annoying reason it won't print screen in that format, only when it's in proper PC format. Cue computer gymnastics as I try to get the screenshot that's clearest in the moment between it flipping from tablet to PC. Sigh, modern technology...)
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 12:17:53 PM
Speaking of photos and eBay, eBay's new policy is they will even allow (and maybe encourage) other sellers to use YOUR image for THEIR auction, which seems like an unbelievably bad idea for vintage collectibles.  (If it's a new, in-box toaster then yeah, I can see how it doesn't really matter.)  You could be pouring over a pic of Cotton Candy, looking for flaws, never realizing you won't be getting that particular pony . . .
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Speaking of photos and eBay, eBay's new policy is they will even allow (and maybe encourage) other sellers to use YOUR image for THEIR auction, which seems like an unbelievably bad idea for vintage collectibles.  (If it's a new, in-box toaster then yeah, I can see how it doesn't really matter.)  You could be pouring over a pic of Cotton Candy, looking for flaws, never realizing you won't be getting that particular pony . . .

It's on the same lines as, "you lost this auction, but don't worry, we found other similar items! (that are entirely different ponies, generation or even different toys shaped like horses!"
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 11, 2019, 12:22:21 PM
I'm waiting for eBay to try to sell me a real horse as a consolation.  I'm sure the day will come.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 11, 2019, 12:25:36 PM
XP

What drives me crazy is when I'm trying to look at an ended auction's description/pictures/etc and they show me an entirely different active auction. I don't want to buy the dang thing, I just want to see its pictures! :P
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 11, 2019, 12:26:32 PM
Speaking of photos and eBay, eBay's new policy is they will even allow (and maybe encourage) other sellers to use YOUR image for THEIR auction, which seems like an unbelievably bad idea for vintage collectibles.  (If it's a new, in-box toaster then yeah, I can see how it doesn't really matter.)  You could be pouring over a pic of Cotton Candy, looking for flaws, never realizing you won't be getting that particular pony . . .

I get it for stock images of new items... but dang, what is with that for vintage items. You want to know what you are getting.

That's what sparked my hate with amazon a long time ago. (like a LONG time ago). You never knew the condition, or if something was even a bootleg.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 12:27:51 PM
I'm waiting for eBay to try to sell me a real horse as a consolation.  I'm sure the day will come.

Ebay keeps trying to sell me MOC Cars figures.
Not sure how that is like MLP. Horse power engine? Dunno.

Their algorithms are not great :P

@Carrehz, that annoys me too.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 11, 2019, 01:16:57 PM
oooh, what annoys me about them allowing to use stock images is when it's something that has multiple cover designs, like a book or DVD, since people don't always pick the right stock photo... it's annoying if you're looking for a particular cover. :p
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on August 11, 2019, 01:52:07 PM
Ahh, very rampant on Tumblr nowadays. I'm sure it's on every social media site (PINTEREST for sure), but there sure is a lot of questionable image using going on. Especially with things such as Moodboards or Stimboards, I've seen plenty of gifs of slime/clay/etc videos used without credit to the original video it came from, or moodboards with images that I've seen everywhere but am doubtful of the sort of usage license it has.
That's what grinds my gears the most. There are plenty of sites that compile pictures that are free to use without credit, and there's one very popular post going around that lists a bunch of these sites, but not everyone will use them. Sigh.
Also noting that Tumblr DOES allow you to link to external site images in the imagepost itself. Like, with the image hosting link from wherever you got it. I blog aesthetics mostly and have linked to a few posts from ebay auctions or something like Zulily. It USED to list the post source as ebay but it looks like it no longer does? I was going to propose that as an option that could be used but it looks like sources will now have to be written into the posts. Here's (https://imiya.tumblr.com/post/186939747374/sauce) my test post in case someone wanted to prove me otherwise (I linked the sauce just in case).
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: PinkieLopBun on August 11, 2019, 01:57:52 PM
Ahh, very rampant on Tumblr nowadays. I'm sure it's on every social media site (PINTEREST for sure), but there sure is a lot of questionable image using going on. Especially with things such as Moodboards or Stimboards, I've seen plenty of gifs of slime/clay/etc videos used without credit to the original video it came from, or moodboards with images that I've seen everywhere but am doubtful of the sort of usage license it has.
That's what grinds my gears the most. There are plenty of sites that compile pictures that are free to use without credit, and there's one very popular post going around that lists a bunch of these sites, but not everyone will use them. Sigh.
Also noting that Tumblr DOES allow you to link to external site images in the imagepost itself. Like, with the image hosting link from wherever you got it. I blog aesthetics mostly and have linked to a few posts from ebay auctions or something like Zulily. It USED to list the post source as ebay but it looks like it no longer does? I was going to propose that as an option that could be used but it looks like sources will now have to be written into the posts. Here's (https://imiya.tumblr.com/post/186939747374/sauce) my test post in case someone wanted to prove me otherwise (I linked the sauce just in case).
It looks like Tumblr now takes the image and reuploads it to their site.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/662bbf4d949c12fc09594134b3cec92a/tumblr_pw3b50kdVY1vae594o1_1280.jpg
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 11, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
What that tells me is you can link to and credit the actual source...as tailrustedtealeaf's posting shows it further down.

So the blogger had a choice to not do this.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 12, 2019, 06:02:06 AM
I read that if you upload an image, it'll say it's source is the blog.

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I just wanted to add the #mine tag just appears to be for content that the blogger had uploaded -- as opposed to a reblog. They had put their own little watermark on their own personal images.

So it's probably a case of they had downloaded the image and didn't remember the source. And just didn't make comment it. (which happens a lot when people just save images throughout the years). Not that it makes it better. I just want to clarify it doesn't seem like the person was saying "I scanned this image personally".
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 12, 2019, 07:04:06 AM
But with reverse search on google it is easy to now verify such things.

Editing this post as showing is easier than telling.

Spoiler
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First hit my page. Second the blog. Third and fourth Pinterest.

That took me literally ten seconds of reverse image seaching. Probably less.

If you click on the first image in the list, you get this information.

Spoiler
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That took me all of fifteen seconds. That included print screening and uploading the print screens to post them here.

In short, it's really easy to verify a source, as that just proves.

I don;t know why the dimensions on Pinterest are different and whether it matters, because Pinterest is a mysterious website thing to me in how it gathers images. But it looks a lot like it was saved off my site directly, from the size of the two images.

I suspect the person knew it came from somewhere else but didn't care, because all images are open season these days to some people.

In any case, #mine is unambiguous. If you don't know the source, you don't tag it as mine. That's trying to take credit for it in some way. At the very least it should be credited to Hasbro Germany.

Hasbro isn't mentioned in her tags, but #mine and #collection are. Even if you are right about the source tag being out of her control, the other tags still consciously an attempt to claim the image. You don't put #mine and #collection for something #randomly found on the internet #cute picture #hasbro germany.

You posted while I was editing for clarity.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 12, 2019, 07:21:50 AM
I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to convince you of but, I was trying to explain the tag and the source thing. As you stated "with the active claim that they are the source".

There's really no rules of the internet. People are going to do what they want, just like IRL. I tended to leave my car door unlocked at night, since I didn't really live in a bad area, and one night after 8 years someone took something out of my car. Well. Whatever. It's like that. People aren't going to follow random "internet laws" that don't exist.

Also the original post doesn't even show a link to ebay anymore with the current template (when yesterday it said sauce -- with a link to ebay).
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Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 12, 2019, 07:29:58 AM

 I am sure someone stealing from inside your car is still considered a crime and technically someone should be held accountable.

This isn't quite the same as it's not my artwork and it's Hasbro's image.

But whether there are or are not internet rules, there is etiquette, and there is integrity. And you don't just steal something and pass it off as belonging to you, no matter what the context. It's never right, whether or not there are people to police it.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 12, 2019, 07:32:35 AM
But whether there are or are not internet rules, there is etiquette, and there is integrity. And you don't just steal something and pass it off as belonging to you, no matter what the context. It's never right, whether or not there are people to police it.

Sure. And not everyone follows etiquette. That's just how humans are. Some good. Some bad. Lots inbetween.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: PinkieLopBun on August 12, 2019, 07:36:07 AM
Also the original post doesn't even show a link to ebay anymore with the current template (when yesterday it said sauce -- with a link to ebay).
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I don't know why it's not showing up on desktop (maybe it's the theme?), but it still shows up on the app.
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But whether there are or are not internet rules, there is etiquette, and there is integrity. And you don't just steal something and pass it off as belonging to you, no matter what the context. It's never right, whether or not there are people to police it.

Sure. And not everyone follows etiquette. That's just how humans are. Some good. Some bad. Lots inbetween.
That doesn't mean they should be allowed to not follow etiquette.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 12, 2019, 07:58:03 AM
But whether there are or are not internet rules, there is etiquette, and there is integrity. And you don't just steal something and pass it off as belonging to you, no matter what the context. It's never right, whether or not there are people to police it.

Sure. And not everyone follows etiquette. That's just how humans are. Some good. Some bad. Lots inbetween.

Yeah, but you aren't really helping by making those kinds of comments. It just comes over like you think I'm an idiot, seriously. We already all know that. We already all know that these things happen.

I can't change the whole internet and I'm not trying to. All I can do is complain about it and bring it to people's attention.

I don't like image thieves. I don't see a justification for them and I don't think you do either, given your earlier comments.

I can't stop this person or anyone else taking images and using them in other places. Mine is a minor thing because it's a Hasbro image originally. But this kind of casual theft is a step on the same ladder as the other examples of claiming other people's artwork and worse things. And those really hurt people in a much more serious way.

 I don't think it's ever bad to remind other people that every image on the internet was put there by someone, and it's just general good manners to know/acknowledge who before you repost it. Especially since such things on the net are strongly unregulated and require human integrity to prevent bad things from happening.

So everyone is clear, I don't believe it's a malicious attack on me or that the person even thought twice about the origin or my website when they posted it. It's really possible they just googled and found it, though it doesn't come up under German Rainbow Ponies, only Regenbogen Ponys, so who knows. I don't take it as a personal insult because I don't know this person and it's not.

However, I have a real problem with people telling lies. And for me, not calling it out is the same condoning it, so I'm calling it out. It's wrong. Whether the internet agrees or not is irrelevant. It's still wrong.

And irrespective of the fact it's not personal, her tags give away the intention to claim the image as her own. #mine #collection, not #hasbro #advert kind of highlights that.

Completely off topic but it just started chucking it down with rain so hard it sounds like pigeons are trying to eat my window.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 12, 2019, 08:09:02 AM
I, again, ask you not to start saying that I think you are an idiot.

I was trying to explain in this content it appears the #mine tag looks like it was just for content that the owner had uploaded, rather then reblogging. I know it looks otherwise.

They obviously didn't source it, or try to source it, or say they didn't know where it came for, or just cared. But I can't just be like "I'm sorry" without trying to add some additional insight.. and which was addressing the thing that bothered you most about the posting of that image.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 12, 2019, 08:13:01 AM
I, again, ask you not to start saying that I think you are an idiot.

I was trying to explain in this content it appears the #mine tag looks like it was just for content that the owner had uploaded, rather then reblogging. I know it looks otherwise.

They obviously didn't source it, or try to source it, or say they didn't know where it came for, or just cared. But I can't just be like "I'm sorry" without trying to add some additional insight.

In this case, you sound like you're trying to defend her. Which given your other comments, I know you're not. So the other conclusion is that you think I don't understand it, when I do.

Like I said before, I know the risks and the realities. I'm not a great fan of all the social media things but I do know how the internet (doesn't) work with stuff like that. I've been running my website for better or worse for 20 years now. I've learned a few things and been burned a few times along the way.

Just because I don't like that something is the case doesn't mean I don't know that it is.

You may be right about #mine on it's own, but #mine and #collection both?
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: banditpony on August 12, 2019, 08:15:22 AM
explaining what a tag means =/= defending.

^ I wouldn't personally use #mine for something that wasn't fully mine.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 12, 2019, 08:17:43 AM
explaining what a tag means =/= defending.

Yeah, I was just editing my post to take that out since I already said you weren't defending her and then I said you were and it sounded weird. You reply too quickly xD.

Either way, though, without the person themselves coming to explain it, it's hard to know for sure. But for me it's someone who found an image they liked, wanted to blog it...and decided to claim it as they didn't know, remember or care where it came from...

And that was really loud thunder....I'm sure storms weren't forecast today.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: tailrustedtealeaf on August 12, 2019, 10:03:56 AM
Ugh, I thought I changed it to enable comments! I did just change my theme yesterday, I'll fix it again.  :P
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: LadyMoondancer on August 12, 2019, 07:50:17 PM
Directly linking to someone else's image usually doesn't work on Tumblr.  I used to try to do this for showing, like, Basic Fun pony pics from Target.com.  These days I just download them and re-upload so I don't end up with a weird mess in my post.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Wildshadow on August 13, 2019, 10:11:41 AM
Just UGH! Sucks all around =( I feel your pain.

Though sometimes I wonder if I should feel my pain at all cause it feels like i'm being petty wanting credit with sharing the information about the kids last name  :redface:
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 13, 2019, 10:33:00 AM
Just UGH! Sucks all around =( I feel your pain.

Though sometimes I wonder if I should feel my pain at all cause it feels like i'm being petty wanting credit with sharing the information about the kids last name  :redface:

Yeah...
It's not so much about credit. It's more about taking and brazenly claiming credit, rather than the fact they didn't link or ask. It's a manners question. Modern internet has none. Basically I'm probably old and grumpy, but if being old and grumpy also means having integrity then I'll take it.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 13, 2019, 12:25:47 PM
Though sometimes I wonder if I should feel my pain at all cause it feels like i'm being petty wanting credit with sharing the information about the kids last name  :redface:

eh, I wouldn't say that's too petty. I mean it's a pretty big revelation and we'd have no idea about it if it wasn't for you! Obviously it's probably unrealistic to expect people'll credit ya every time the name comes up but nope, I don't think it's petty to expect a tip of the hat every now and then. If that makes sense.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 13, 2019, 01:43:50 PM
Though sometimes I wonder if I should feel my pain at all cause it feels like i'm being petty wanting credit with sharing the information about the kids last name  :redface:

eh, I wouldn't say that's too petty. I mean it's a pretty big revelation and we'd have no idea about it if it wasn't for you! Obviously it's probably unrealistic to expect people'll credit ya every time the name comes up but nope, I don't think it's petty to expect a tip of the hat every now and then. If that makes sense.

At the risk of sounding even more old and grumpy, I have long since given up hoping for any kind of credit for anything I contributed to the pony community. Pretty much nobody is left who remembers anyway.

At the very least I'd settle for the information being correct, but even that hope has started to die. You have no idea how souldestroying it is when you spend 20 years putting together UK information and get someone citing a site at you and it isn't even right.

So maybe on reflection that's also a part of why this irked me so much. Not because I want credit, but that we've reached such a low that not only is all the work I've done irrelevant, my site is now just a site to steal images from and reblog to get hits. And that stings quite a lot. I think if it had been reblogged at least for information purposes I might make peace with it. But to get someone attention and reblogs is just scraping the barrel.

Maybe I'm also petty. But oh well. If I am, it's tough.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Wildshadow on August 13, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Though sometimes I wonder if I should feel my pain at all cause it feels like i'm being petty wanting credit with sharing the information about the kids last name  :redface:

eh, I wouldn't say that's too petty. I mean it's a pretty big revelation and we'd have no idea about it if it wasn't for you! Obviously it's probably unrealistic to expect people'll credit ya every time the name comes up but nope, I don't think it's petty to expect a tip of the hat every now and then. If that makes sense.

At the risk of sounding even more old and grumpy, I have long since given up hoping for any kind of credit for anything I contributed to the pony community. Pretty much nobody is left who remembers anyway.

At the very least I'd settle for the information being correct, but even that hope has started to die. You have no idea how souldestroying it is when you spend 20 years putting together UK information and get someone citing a site at you and it isn't even right.

So maybe on reflection that's also a part of why this irked me so much. Not because I want credit, but that we've reached such a low that not only is all the work I've done irrelevant, my site is now just a site to steal images from and reblog to get hits. And that stings quite a lot. I think if it had been reblogged at least for information purposes I might make peace with it. But to get someone attention and reblogs is just scraping the barrel.

Maybe I'm also petty. But oh well. If I am, it's tough.


Nope you aren't petty, you deserve all the recognition. You put time into your site and everything (my mind can't think of words to use).  All your hard work shouldn't be reduced to re-blogging  :tackleglomp:

I'm horrible with putting thoughts into words...My petty feeling was about being in the pony community for ages and the one thing I could contribute was one word of a last name  :redface:
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Carrehz on August 13, 2019, 03:03:04 PM
I'm horrible with putting thoughts into words...My petty feeling was about being in the pony community for ages and the one thing I could contribute was one word of a last name  :redface:

Hey, more interesting than anything I could contribute! :) I love all the production stuff you post, I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: lovesbabysquirmy on August 13, 2019, 03:20:23 PM
I think the part bugs me more than the image theft is said person claiming these items are in their collection.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on August 13, 2019, 03:23:48 PM
I think the part bugs me more than the image theft is said person claiming these items are in their collection.

Yeah. That bugs me too.

At least credit it as Hasbro's image.


Nope you aren't petty, you deserve all the recognition. You put time into your site and everything (my mind can't think of words to use).  All your hard work shouldn't be reduced to re-blogging  :tackleglomp:

I'm horrible with putting thoughts into words...My petty feeling was about being in the pony community for ages and the one thing I could contribute was one word of a last name  :redface:

:hug: But your contributions are like Carrehz says. The thing is we all contribute stuff to the community. I just get grumpy and salty about it when half the things I contributed have vanished because mainstream websites are too lazy to include them. xD.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: caseysealia on September 02, 2019, 09:06:18 AM
Is it possible they found it on the web and by "mine" they meant who uploaded it to site? Still not right what-so-ever but might be the answer.

What's weird is this same person was ranting about copy right themselves, then to turn around and do it themselves is pretty gross. 

And its not like its Pinterest. Its tumblr. Tumblr is for original work or at least credited and linked work.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Artemesia's Garden on September 02, 2019, 09:29:25 AM
Basically I'm probably old and grumpy, but if being old and grumpy also means having integrity then I'll take it.

:thumb:
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on September 02, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
Is it possible they found it on the web and by "mine" they meant who uploaded it to site? Still not right what-so-ever but might be the answer.

What's weird is this same person was ranting about copy right themselves, then to turn around and do it themselves is pretty gross. 

And its not like its Pinterest. Its tumblr. Tumblr is for original work or at least credited and linked work.

The only place that image was prior to the IG post was my website. I don't for one minute suppose this person was browsing my website and thought, I'll take this, probably it came from a google search. But google helpfully tells you the source of the image when you search and click on it, so it's not like it's an unknown origin.

But even if that was the case, the bottom line is that it isn't my copyright either, it's Hasbro's. But the difference is that my site credits its source and origin. By taking it and reposting it without any of that information, it's not just trampling on my website, but also on the actual origin of the image. I mean, it should be obvious to anyone looking at it that that's where it's from, but still.

Whether the origin aspect is or isn't automatic to IG seems debateable depending on your browser, but the tags are kind of unambiguous in terms of intent.

@Artie :D Yep :hug:
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: caseysealia on September 02, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
Is it possible they found it on the web and by "mine" they meant who uploaded it to site? Still not right what-so-ever but might be the answer.

What's weird is this same person was ranting about copy right themselves, then to turn around and do it themselves is pretty gross. 

And its not like its Pinterest. Its tumblr. Tumblr is for original work or at least credited and linked work.
The only place that image was prior to the IG post was my website. I don't for one minute suppose this person was browsing my website and thought, I'll take this, probably it came from a google search. But google helpfully tells you the source of the image when you search and click on it, so it's not like it's an unknown origin.

But even if that was the case, the bottom line is that it isn't my copyright either, it's Hasbro's. But the difference is that my site credits its source and origin. By taking it and reposting it without any of that information, it's not just trampling on my website, but also on the actual origin of the image. I mean, it should be obvious to anyone looking at it that that's where it's from, but still.

Whether the origin aspect is or isn't automatic to IG seems debateable depending on your browser, but the tags are kind of unambiguous in terms of intent.

@Artie :D Yep :hug:
Yeah and by not providing a source it makes it hard for people who would of been interested in viewing your site too. Even though the image belongs to Hasbro it was still you who went out of your way to post it and give info. It wasn't fair for them to tag your work as theirs.
Maybe they did get from google but it wasn't sourced and they assumed it was "public" to post anywhere? Still shouldn't have tagged it as "mine" though, and at least should of sourced it as Hasbro's, by not again, makes it hard for the viewer to get that info. Sad that they just disappeared. I remember this person had been in a scandal involving a friend stealing her book idea then claiming it as hers, so you'd think someone who was involved in that wouldn't do the same.
Any other site and I'd report it but this is tumblr we're talking about. Sorry you had to deal with that.  :hug: As an artist the thought of stolen and claimed content upsets me.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on September 02, 2019, 01:12:14 PM
Thank you :)

Unfortunately this is the world we live in now, with pictures getting exchanged around the internet like this.

I don't know the person involved or anything else about them, just that it annoyed me.

Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: NightGliderSA on September 03, 2019, 02:07:34 AM
Wow, sorry Taffeta, that is just so... blatant  :shocked: People like that should be banned from coffee, chocolate and ponies for the Rest of Their Lives.

I suppose you will need to decide what you are most comfortable with going forward: sadly it seems that people are always going to steal images. They will find a way. So do you want to go the route of watermarking everything or not? It is your website and it is ultimately your choice.

I thought that you might perhaps like to know that our (admittedly small) SA group of collectors think highly of your website as we know you do your utmost to be as honest and accurate as possible. So we can rely on the information.
Title: Re: What to do about image theft in this modern day and age...
Post by: Taffeta on September 05, 2019, 01:36:14 PM

I thought that you might perhaps like to know that our (admittedly small) SA group of collectors think highly of your website as we know you do your utmost to be as honest and accurate as possible. So we can rely on the information.

Thanks Nightglider :hug: I appreciate it :D And I'm glad the site is useful to people other than picture bandits ;)
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