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Pony Talk => Pony Corral => Topic started by: applejackSA on June 06, 2019, 07:25:08 AM

Title: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: applejackSA on June 06, 2019, 07:25:08 AM
Hi there!

I received a huge lot, and in it is a Baby Cuddles. I checked MyLittleWiki, and it says that the Baby Cuddles with freckles was made in China, and the one without in Hong Kong.
Mine is made in Hong Kong and has freckles. Also, there is nothing in the lot to suggest it was part of the Baby Buggy.
Could someone please shed some light as to where I should place her in my collection?

It came from the UK if that helps at all.

Xx
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 06, 2019, 07:31:24 AM
Probably the Wiki is just mistaken.

She would have come originally with the baby Buggy. Baby Cuddles in the UK didn't have any other release than that, but she was released over several years here.

Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on June 06, 2019, 01:08:43 PM
My childhood one had freckles and I'm pretty sure he's from Hong Kong.  I got him around the time Trickles, Gusty, etc were in stores, which seems too early to be China.   I'll check when I get a chance. :)
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 06, 2019, 02:46:33 PM
Baby Cuddles was still available in the UK as late as 1988 according to Hasbro UK's information. I certainly have a box dated 1987.
Spoiler
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 I don't think I have a regular baby cuddles myself (my sister does, but hers are in storage). If I do, I can't find her right now, but the playset release schedule over here isn't anything like the US one in terms of timeline. I am fairly sure that the regular eyed one happened either at the same time as or after the BBE one in the UK. The one being sold in 1987 was a regular eyed baby, but the BBE one is advertised in the comics before that. Something similar also happened with Baby Half Note, so the timeline compared to the US one is all over the place.

There's also a mystery here where one version of the UK Baby Cuddles box says pony made in Spain but the actual pony sold inside was made in HK. So it's not that strange to ask the question.

I am not sure whether there is a MO Baby Cuddles like there is a freckleless Baby Tiddly Winks, but I don't believe I have ever seen a regular eye Baby C over here that didn't have freckles. The Wiki pictures are interesting, and may stand further investigation...but freckles are also easily removed... If there is a MO version then that would explain the variation of no-freckles. It would also explain why I have never seen one, as we didn't have the MO ponies here.

The Wiki doesn't have hoof pictures, so it's hard to verify. The known variation between regular baby half note versions (purple eyes vs aqua) are both HK, so it doesn't have to be a different place of manufacture necessarily.

Because I don't have a loose one to hand I can't check where she was made, but there are definitely Chinese ponies being made at the time Baby C was still out over here, so I imagine a variation could exist made in China (perhaps like Majesty...). I am just not sure the simple way in which the Wiki puts it is actually the case.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: kingluke on June 07, 2019, 12:53:10 AM
hmm...my freckles baby cuddles is also hong kong. I'm not sure about the rest.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Shaz on June 07, 2019, 01:15:55 AM
My Cuddles (bought second-hand in the UK) has freckles and was made in China. Since the Baby Buggy was available for such a long time, maybe more than one factory made them?
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: shabbychicdee on June 07, 2019, 02:58:17 AM
i have both china and hong kong and they both have freckles :)
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: freezestime on June 07, 2019, 03:10:59 AM
My baby Cuddles has freckles and her hoof says Hong Kong, so idk.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 07, 2019, 04:39:49 AM
I think it's just a Wiki mistake. The Wiki can and does make mistakes. It's editors are only human :)
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: RoseNoire on June 07, 2019, 05:41:32 AM
Yup, I've talked about it a year prior and it's just a Wiki mistake. Both my Baby Cuddles are HK and have freckles.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 07, 2019, 05:53:08 AM
Yup, I've talked about it a year prior and it's just a Wiki mistake. Both my Baby Cuddles are HK and have freckles.

I didn't realise it had come up before.

It would be great if any Wiki editors are reading this thread that they can maybe remove that so it can't confuse anyone else. It's clearly relevant that there are HK and China ones and it probably does relate to the late ongoing release, like Majesty and ultimately LD as well - but if there is a freckle free version, this isn't it.

I am still unable to find a regular eyed baby c on my baby shelf so maybe I genuinely don't have one, but I'm going to make sure I add something on my site that both China and HK ones are around here but they all have freckles as far as I know. I may have one in my trade box. I'll have to see. It's a nusiance Naynie's ponies being in the loft, as I can't check hers.

...I do remember some ages back a conversation about how easily you could remove freckles with acetone and the problems of identifying a MO baby Tiddly Winks from the lack of freckles because of it. I wonder if that happened in this case also or if there's something else. Is there a MO version of baby C? I feel like she was on a pamphlet but I've taken pictures of so many of those recently I may be getting muddled up.

For the record, officially Hasbro UK only listed Baby Cuddles and the baby buggy coming out in 1987 and 1988 in the UK.
I would need to check if she is on the 1986 insert as well, but that makes sense with the comic advert that shows the BBE one in the buggy with Buttons, also from 1987. Those years make it logical there'd be China and HK versions. Kiss Curl was also available from around 1987 through to 1989ish and she also has HK and China versions as well as symbol variations.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on June 07, 2019, 06:06:17 AM
Cuddles and the baby buggy were released as a mail order set a few times but I think all the MO ones came with BBE Cuddles.  I don't think I've ever seen it advertised with the NBBE version.

BBE Cuddles never has freckles, no matter if storebought or not.  I don't thiiiiink there's a NBBE version without freckles.  There's a NBBE Tiddly-Winks without, but only because she came with that Playset Pony set, and I don't think Cuddles was included in that.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 07, 2019, 06:16:20 AM
Then probably the one pictured without on the Wiki has been tampered with...?

I keep it with a ? because we still haven't resolved the "pony made in Spain"/HK release thing that happened here, and some of the NC (assumed Spanish) made brother ponies have poorly removed HK stamps on their hooves, so if there WAS to be a Spanish one, and it had badly edited hooves, it might be the missing freckleless wonder.

BUT we have never proven that the pony in the box for this playset ever was Made in Spain, as none - including nearly complete or boxed sets - have ever been found...

And there are still some queries about whether all the ponies that we think of as NC/Spanish are actually Spanish, too...


Edit to add: the baby Cuddles in my trade box - who originally came in a lot from the US - is made in HK and has freckles :)

And the 1987 box that I posted the date image for further up the thread says "pony made in Hong Kong" on it.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: LadyMoondancer on June 07, 2019, 08:48:47 AM
Oh interesting, I didn't realize the Wiki had a picture.  I'm not sure . . . Maybe there was a MO NBBE Cuddles after all.  Some issues of the buggy specifically mention the Beddy-Bye Eyes but the Baby Buggy did get released a bunch of times.  Maybe some issues DID have the NBBE?

Anyone know?  Did anyone get a MO buggy as a kid?

I edited the Wiki to basically say "lol WHO KNOWS" so at least it doesn't have misinformation.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 07, 2019, 11:02:15 AM
I don't think I have all the US MO inserts, but the 2 I have both show her with BBE (the Sparkle Pony one and the Rainbow Pony one). I guess it doesn't necessarily follow they were always sent like that though.

She's not on the UK 1986 insert either, which I kind of didn't expect since Hasbro's list didn't mention her for 1986, but I checked anyway. I guess we had the strollers in 1985 and 1986 and then only had the buggy after that. She is on the 1987 and 1988 inserts but both are drawings so don't give indication of which eye version (if there was even any consistency), let alone freckle status.

She's featured (photo) in the 1988 Argos catalogue but that one is a BBE.

So I have nothing re the freckless wonder in terms of paper trail here ;)

(But the 1988 argos does show the dance school with regular eyed baby half note and she is definitely wearing white shoes too ;)

Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: toyjunky on June 10, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
Not sure if this will help or not since it is US ponies. According to Summer Hayes book "The My Little Pony G1 Collector's Inventory" the Baby Buggy was originally released in the US in 1984 and was available in stores and as a mail order. She also wrote that, "Baby Cuddles changed between releases (years) getting Beddy Bye Eyes with the second issue."

I have a Baby Cuddles that I picked up a few months ago at a swap meet. It is NBBE, has freckles and was made in Hong Kong.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: Taffeta on June 10, 2019, 05:42:28 PM
One of the things I really wanted to get across by mentioning the difference between the UK release and the US is that there are some pretty important differences between the releases of the same sets between countries.

The box photos here are the same I think as the US, featuring Posey and Lickety and a regular eyed baby. That same box was used for the BBE so no clues can be found from that. The ponies featured are also a lot older than the 1987 box stamp on the UK box I have.

Basically all Summer's info is fine for the US release but is probably entirely wrong for the UK, even as regards the order of release.

The comic advertised BBE in 1987, she's still in Argos in 1988 so I am tempted to assume she came first. I'm tempted to do this for another reason as well though.

This is from my 1987 box. If you can see it, look at the font on the rainbow, especially the curly 'y'.visitors can't see pics , please register or login

As I said before, we KNOW BBE was sold in 1987, so probably in this box.

However, there's also THIS box...(which I don't own). Look at the Y again...
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 THIS box is I believe the one that says the pony is made in Spain. But we know that this box came with a REGULAR eyed HK made baby Cuddles, as people have owned them and said so. The box is probably also dated 1987, but the font style indicates it's 1988. (defining the break between 1987 and 1988 is a whole other discussion for a different thread at a different time...xD)

For timeline context, Kiss Curl's box also uses this font style on her rainbow (1988):
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Snuzzle (1987) doesn't:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

So this is a change between 1987 and 1988. Since Argos also did keep reselling stock from the previous year in later catalogues, the most logical deduction is that in the UK release it went like this:

1987: BBE
1988: Regular eye.

Something very similar happened with the Dance School and versions of Baby Half Note.

Kiss Curl (1988-9) also has versions made in HK and China, so that also fits :)

None of this rules out the possibility of BBE and regular being sold simultaneously over here, or those released overlapping.

BUT the UK timeline being as late as it is explains the existence of both Chinese and HK regular babies as standard.

...What it doesn't solve though is the Wiki photo and whether there was a MO in the US without freckles, like Tiddly. But the brochures I've seen all show a photo of a BBE. I guess unless someone has one from new, and can provide info, we'll not know. But I personally think freckles are easy to remove and this is the simplest solution.

I also think the reason the Wiki was confused in the first place is because a Chinese baby C appeared and 1984 seemed way too early for that to happen, so a lot of thinking went on and people got muddled and it led to a wild assumption.
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: katrine2309 on June 11, 2019, 10:50:44 AM
My childhood Cuddles is also an HK with freckles. Using my deduction skills (they are not very impressive, though :lol: ) I believe I got her in 1988, either for my birthday in May or for Christmas. I don’t remember the box though... although I do remember the picture of the adult pony pushing the buggy.

I think Cuddles’ playset were one of those play sets sold over the course of many years here in Norway as well. It is a very difficult playset to understand the release plan for. I agree with everyone saying that concerning this release the Wiki got the Cuddles info wrong. HK do have freckles, and it is quite a lot of them around ;)
Title: Re: Baby Cuddles with freckles... but made in Hong Kong. Help!
Post by: applejackSA on June 12, 2019, 01:04:32 PM
One of the things I really wanted to get across by mentioning the difference between the UK release and the US is that there are some pretty important differences between the releases of the same sets between countries.

The box photos here are the same I think as the US, featuring Posey and Lickety and a regular eyed baby. That same box was used for the BBE so no clues can be found from that. The ponies featured are also a lot older than the 1987 box stamp on the UK box I have.

Basically all Summer's info is fine for the US release but is probably entirely wrong for the UK, even as regards the order of release.

The comic advertised BBE in 1987, she's still in Argos in 1988 so I am tempted to assume she came first. I'm tempted to do this for another reason as well though.

This is from my 1987 box. If you can see it, look at the font on the rainbow, especially the curly 'y'.visitors can't see pics , please register or login

As I said before, we KNOW BBE was sold in 1987, so probably in this box.

However, there's also THIS box...(which I don't own). Look at the Y again...
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 THIS box is I believe the one that says the pony is made in Spain. But we know that this box came with a REGULAR eyed HK made baby Cuddles, as people have owned them and said so. The box is probably also dated 1987, but the font style indicates it's 1988. (defining the break between 1987 and 1988 is a whole other discussion for a different thread at a different time...xD)

For timeline context, Kiss Curl's box also uses this font style on her rainbow (1988):
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Snuzzle (1987) doesn't:
Spoiler
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

So this is a change between 1987 and 1988. Since Argos also did keep reselling stock from the previous year in later catalogues, the most logical deduction is that in the UK release it went like this:

1987: BBE
1988: Regular eye.

Something very similar happened with the Dance School and versions of Baby Half Note.

Kiss Curl (1988-9) also has versions made in HK and China, so that also fits :)

None of this rules out the possibility of BBE and regular being sold simultaneously over here, or those released overlapping.

BUT the UK timeline being as late as it is explains the existence of both Chinese and HK regular babies as standard.

...What it doesn't solve though is the Wiki photo and whether there was a MO in the US without freckles, like Tiddly. But the brochures I've seen all show a photo of a BBE. I guess unless someone has one from new, and can provide info, we'll not know. But I personally think freckles are easy to remove and this is the simplest solution.

I also think the reason the Wiki was confused in the first place is because a Chinese baby C appeared and 1984 seemed way too early for that to happen, so a lot of thinking went on and people got muddled and it led to a wild assumption.

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